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Advice on how to edit the LST files?

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  • Henk Slaaf
    Hey fellow data monkeys, I ve spent some time editing the LST files. My experience is that this is pretty tedious because of the horizontal alignment of the
    Message 1 of 22 , May 27, 2011
      Hey fellow data monkeys,


      I've spent some time editing the LST files. My experience is that this is pretty tedious because of the horizontal alignment of the lines. Especially when prettylist has been used, the lines are very long and it is difficult to get an overview.

      Having a vertical alignment of the fields is much easier to read and edit, so I've written a couple of scripts that prepare the LST files for easy editting, but I'm sure you guys have invented those wheels long before I did.

      So before I write a whole new toolset: how do you edit the LST files?


      Thanks,

      Henk

      PS: I am on Linux

      PPS: For example horizontally aligned fields:

      Alignment Channel TYPE:General.AttackOption PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype. STACK:NO MULT:YES

      Versus vertically aligned fields:

      Alignment Channel
      TYPE:General.AttackOption
      PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy
      DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype.
      STACK:NO
      MULT:YES
      CHOOSE:STRING|Chaos|Evil|Good|Law
      SOURCEPAGE:p.117
    • Terry Milnes
      I prefer the Horizontal alignment using Notepad++(which works great in WINE). Just set the tab stops to 6 and I can normally go down the column looking for
      Message 2 of 22 , May 27, 2011
        I prefer the Horizontal alignment using Notepad++(which works great in
        WINE). Just set the tab stops to 6 and I can normally go down the column
        looking for anything out of place. My problem is some files do not align to
        the 6 space tab stop or when you have multiple groups and each group does
        not have the exact columns as the others. This throws off the columns.
        Personally, I wish there was a program that automatically standardized the
        info so you could import it into say Excel so each column lines up
        perfectly.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew
        Hi, Depends on what I m trying to do, I do wordwrap if I need to see a complete whole. When I m beginning a lst file, I do indented Tab Space on each line to
        Message 3 of 22 , May 27, 2011
          Hi,

          Depends on what I'm trying to do, I do wordwrap if I need to see a complete whole. When I'm
          beginning a lst file, I do indented Tab Space on each line to verify everything is good, and when
          I'm done, I do advanced Find/Replace to line it all up.

          PrettyLST is handy to line things up, since I tend to do Bulk Editing, all Ability Files tend to be
          identical with category and type, so keeping everything lined up help catches any minor mistakes.

          And then if I'm doing pinpoint editing, I use the Find Option.

          The tools the monkeys use are in the utilities folder, if you have a contribution, feel free to add it.


          On 5/27/2011 9:14 AM, Henk Slaaf wrote:
          > Hey fellow data monkeys,
          >
          >
          > I've spent some time editing the LST files. My experience is that this is pretty tedious because of the horizontal alignment of the lines. Especially when prettylist has been used, the lines are very long and it is difficult to get an overview.
          >
          > Having a vertical alignment of the fields is much easier to read and edit, so I've written a couple of scripts that prepare the LST files for easy editting, but I'm sure you guys have invented those wheels long before I did.
          >
          > So before I write a whole new toolset: how do you edit the LST files?
          >
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Henk
          >
          > PS: I am on Linux
          >
          > PPS: For example horizontally aligned fields:
          >
          > Alignment Channel TYPE:General.AttackOption PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype. STACK:NO MULT:YES
          >
          > Versus vertically aligned fields:
          >
          > Alignment Channel
          > TYPE:General.AttackOption
          > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy
          > DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype.
          > STACK:NO
          > MULT:YES
          > CHOOSE:STRING|Chaos|Evil|Good|Law
          > SOURCEPAGE:p.117
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >
          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > (for new official data source development)
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ricky
          I m using OpenOffice s Calc (both on windows and ubuntu) to edit lst files. and then when i need prettylst just don t write the modified files, but look on
          Message 4 of 22 , May 31, 2011
            I'm using OpenOffice's Calc (both on windows and ubuntu) to edit lst files. and then when i need prettylst just don't write the "modified" files, but look on the generated messages..

             
            Ricky
            (ICQ:158244154) (Y!m:iainuki) (MSN:iainuki4)


            ### the truth is in the eye of the beholder ###


            <a href="http://www.gozzilioni.net">Gozzilioni.net</a>


            ________________________________
            Da: Andrew <drew0500@...>
            A: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            Inviato: Venerdì 27 Maggio 2011 18:30
            Oggetto: Re: [pcgen] Advice on how to edit the LST files?

            Hi,

            Depends on what I'm trying to do, I do wordwrap if I need to see a complete whole. When I'm
            beginning a lst file, I do indented Tab Space on each line to verify everything is good, and when
            I'm done, I do advanced Find/Replace to line it all up.

            PrettyLST is handy to line things up, since I tend to do Bulk Editing, all Ability Files tend to be
            identical with category and type, so keeping everything lined up help catches any minor mistakes.

            And then if I'm doing pinpoint editing, I use the Find Option.

            The tools the monkeys use are in the utilities folder, if you have a contribution, feel free to add it.


            On 5/27/2011 9:14 AM, Henk Slaaf wrote:
            > Hey fellow data monkeys,
            >
            >
            > I've spent some time editing the LST files. My experience is that this is pretty tedious because of the horizontal alignment of the lines. Especially when prettylist has been used, the lines are very long and it is difficult to get an overview.
            >
            > Having a vertical alignment of the fields is much easier to read and edit, so I've written a couple of scripts that prepare the LST files for easy editting, but I'm sure you guys have invented those wheels long before I did.
            >
            > So before I write a whole new toolset: how do you edit the LST files?
            >
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Henk
            >
            > PS: I am on Linux
            >
            > PPS: For example horizontally aligned fields:
            >
            > Alignment Channel                TYPE:General.AttackOption      PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy                  DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype.          STACK:NO    MULT:YES           
            >
            > Versus vertically aligned fields:
            >
            > Alignment Channel
            >        TYPE:General.AttackOption
            >        PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Channel Energy
            >        DESC:You can channel your divine energy to harm or heal outsiders that possess your chosen alignment subtype.
            >        STACK:NO
            >        MULT:YES
            >        CHOOSE:STRING|Chaos|Evil|Good|Law
            >        SOURCEPAGE:p.117
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Related Lists
            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
            >
            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >
            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > (for new official data source development)
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Related Lists
            PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

            PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

            PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            (for new official data source development)
            Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • FerretDave
            Greetings, I use vim (originally vi), as I use that extensively at work (UNIX support & development) and am quite comfortable with it, installed notepad++ and
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 2, 2011
              Greetings,
              I use vim (originally vi), as I use that extensively at work (UNIX support & development) and am quite comfortable with it, installed notepad++ and cant recall offhand why I didnt take to it, ought to give it another go.

              Have to agree about the whole 'vertical' verses 'horizontal' alignment setup, class files use vertical (ish! bit of both really), and they are a heck of a lot easier to edit. Other files (*IF* not too wide) are easy enough to maintain but as soon as they start wrapping a couple of lines it can get tricky.

              Not sure if I'd go to the bother of using a script to transfrom horizontal to vertical (though its easy enough to write), as it adds in an extra step in the editing process, and for minor tweaks would be just too much of an overhead...

              Cheers
              Ferret/Dave oxxxxxxx{;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;>

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Henk Slaaf" <henk@...> wrote:
              ...
              > So before I write a whole new toolset: how do you edit the LST files?
              ...
              > PPS: For example horizontally aligned fields:
              ...
              > Versus vertically aligned fields:
              ...
            • Andrew Wilson
              I also use vim and I tend to wrap just the bit I m working on, which tends to be at the end of the line. I toyed with vim scripts to do the wrap and unwrap,
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 2, 2011
                I also use vim and I tend to wrap just the bit I'm working on, which tends
                to be at the end of the line. I toyed with vim scripts to do the wrap and
                unwrap, but didn't need them enough to finish them.
                andrew
                On 2 June 2011 16:05, FerretDave <ferret.griffin@...> wrote:

                > Greetings,
                > I use vim (originally vi), as I use that extensively at work (UNIX support
                > & development) and am quite comfortable with it, installed notepad++ and
                > cant recall offhand why I didnt take to it, ought to give it another go.
                >
                > Have to agree about the whole 'vertical' verses 'horizontal' alignment
                > setup, class files use vertical (ish! bit of both really), and they are a
                > heck of a lot easier to edit. Other files (*IF* not too wide) are easy
                > enough to maintain but as soon as they start wrapping a couple of lines it
                > can get tricky.
                >
                > Not sure if I'd go to the bother of using a script to transfrom horizontal
                > to vertical (though its easy enough to write), as it adds in an extra step
                > in the editing process, and for minor tweaks would be just too much of an
                > overhead...
                >
                > Cheers
                > Ferret/Dave oxxxxxxx{;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;>
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Henk Slaaf" <henk@...> wrote:
                > ...
                > > So before I write a whole new toolset: how do you edit the LST files?
                > ...
                > > PPS: For example horizontally aligned fields:
                > ...
                > > Versus vertically aligned fields:
                > ...
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Related Lists
                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > PCGen's Online Docs:
                > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                >
                > PCGen List File Help:
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >
                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > (for new official data source development)
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Henk Slaaf
                ... I developed these mappings to map horizontal alignment to vertical alignment (F2) and back (F3) in vim. ; Press F2 when opening a file, press F3 before
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 2, 2011
                  >
                  > I use vim (originally vi), as I use that extensively at work (UNIX support
                  > & development) and am quite comfortable with it, installed notepad++ and
                  > cant recall offhand why I didnt take to it, ought to give it another go.
                  >

                  I developed these mappings to map horizontal alignment to vertical alignment
                  (F2) and back (F3) in vim.

                  ; Press F2 when opening a file, press F3 before saving the file.

                  ; Do not press F2 more than once. Add comments, but always use two newlines,
                  > two before the comment line, two after.

                  nmap <F2> :%!perl -p -e 's/\n/\n\n/g; s/\t+/\n\t/g;'<CR>
                  > nmap <F3> :%!perl -e 'undef $/; my $lst = <>; $lst =~ s/\n(?\!\n)//gsm;
                  > $lst =~ s/\n\n/\n/g; print $lst'<CR>


                  This works, but loses the number of tabs between the lines. This is not a
                  problem of you run prettylst.pl in between commits. This ensures a terse
                  diff, but would add a large diff if commits are made that do not use
                  prettylst.


                  Thanks,

                  Henk


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Saxum Caribetum
                  ... Urk. for the rest of us, especially those on Windows, I would recommend the splendid NOTEPAD++ program, also free, which additionally has a
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 2, 2011
                    On 02/06/2011 19:34, Henk Slaaf wrote:
                    >> I use vim (originally vi), as I use that extensively at work (UNIX support
                    >> & development) and am quite comfortable with it, installed notepad++ and
                    >> cant recall offhand why I didnt take to it, ought to give it another go.
                    >>
                    > I developed these mappings to map horizontal alignment to vertical alignment
                    > (F2) and back (F3) in vim.
                    >
                    > ; Press F2 when opening a file, press F3 before saving the file.
                    >
                    > ; Do not press F2 more than once. Add comments, but always use two newlines,
                    >> two before the comment line, two after.
                    > nmap<F2> :%!perl -p -e 's/\n/\n\n/g; s/\t+/\n\t/g;'<CR>
                    >> nmap<F3> :%!perl -e 'undef $/; my $lst =<>; $lst =~ s/\n(?\!\n)//gsm;
                    >> $lst =~ s/\n\n/\n/g; print $lst'<CR>
                    >
                    > This works, but loses the number of tabs between the lines. This is not a
                    > problem of you run prettylst.pl in between commits. This ensures a terse
                    > diff, but would add a large diff if commits are made that do not use
                    > prettylst.
                    >
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Henk
                    >

                    Urk.
                    for the rest of us, especially those on Windows, I would recommend the
                    splendid NOTEPAD++ program, also free, which additionally has a
                    syntax-colouring add-on for LST files, which makes editing them so much
                    easier.

                    http://notepad-plus-plus.org/

                    It also has the benefit of having no trace of heritage from Vi, which I
                    am afraid, I must admit to not liking.
                    I don't know why the previous poster disagreed with Notepad++ - I find
                    it useful for almost all plain-text purposes.

                    --
                    Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                    ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                    Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
                    Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
                  • Susan Dittmar
                    ... Well, as he wrote he s using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I find other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                      > I don't know why the previous poster disagreed with Notepad++ - I find
                      > it useful for almost all plain-text purposes.

                      Well, as he wrote he's using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I find
                      other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                      because they are so different from vim. And there's another point speaking
                      against notepad++: It only runs on windows (or maybe on emulated windows).

                      Susan
                    • Henk Slaaf
                      ... I ll try and start a .vimrc section in SVN for hackers that like to use vim. The syntax highlighting needs work and we need mappings to easily work in LST
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                        >
                        > Well, as he wrote he's using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I find
                        > other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                        > because they are so different from vim. And there's another point speaking
                        > against notepad++: It only runs on windows (or maybe on emulated windows).


                        I'll try and start a .vimrc section in SVN for hackers that like to use vim.
                        The syntax highlighting needs work and we need mappings to easily work in
                        LST files and create a clean diff.


                        One of the problems with a lot of current commits is that the diff is very
                        large because of the scores of lines where only the whitespace has changed.
                        This makes merging very difficult and makes reviewing near-impossble.

                        Editing with vertical spacing creates very, very clean diffs and gives us a
                        proper reviewing view.

                        Thanks,

                        Henk


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Andrew Wilson
                        One thing I do recommend, if you re using vim. Set the tab stop to 6 characters. Now you might think, that s insane! tabs are eight characters wide da**it!
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                          One thing I do recommend, if you're using vim. Set the tab stop to 6
                          characters.
                          Now you might think, "that's insane! tabs are eight characters wide da**it!"
                          and
                          mostly you'd be right. However! all the other data peeps are using 6
                          character
                          tabs and if you arn't then you can't see how they've lined up the various
                          sections
                          of their LST files.

                          I used to think this didn't matter, then I'd open a LST file and think this
                          is a bit
                          of a mess. Then I'd set the tab stop to six characters and suddenly it's
                          all
                          neat and lined up.
                          andrew
                          On 6 June 2011 09:04, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:

                          > >
                          > > Well, as he wrote he's using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I
                          > find
                          > > other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                          > > because they are so different from vim. And there's another point
                          > speaking
                          > > against notepad++: It only runs on windows (or maybe on emulated
                          > windows).
                          >
                          >
                          > I'll try and start a .vimrc section in SVN for hackers that like to use
                          > vim.
                          > The syntax highlighting needs work and we need mappings to easily work in
                          > LST files and create a clean diff.
                          >
                          >
                          > One of the problems with a lot of current commits is that the diff is very
                          > large because of the scores of lines where only the whitespace has changed.
                          > This makes merging very difficult and makes reviewing near-impossble.
                          >
                          > Editing with vertical spacing creates very, very clean diffs and gives us a
                          > proper reviewing view.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Henk
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Related Lists
                          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > PCGen's Online Docs:
                          > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                          > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                          > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                          >
                          > PCGen List File Help:
                          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          >
                          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          > (for new official data source development)
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Andrew
                          Hi, Tab spaces are default 8? I wonder why the data standard is set for 6 then. All I know it s been that standard for as long as I ve been around. ... --
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                            Hi,

                            Tab spaces are default 8? I wonder why the data standard is set for 6 then.

                            All I know it's been that standard for as long as I've been around.



                            On 6/6/2011 3:54 AM, Andrew Wilson wrote:
                            > One thing I do recommend, if you're using vim. Set the tab stop to 6
                            > characters.
                            > Now you might think, "that's insane! tabs are eight characters wide da**it!"
                            > and
                            > mostly you'd be right. However! all the other data peeps are using 6
                            > character
                            > tabs and if you arn't then you can't see how they've lined up the various
                            > sections
                            > of their LST files.
                            >
                            > I used to think this didn't matter, then I'd open a LST file and think this
                            > is a bit
                            > of a mess. Then I'd set the tab stop to six characters and suddenly it's
                            > all
                            > neat and lined up.
                            > andrew
                            > On 6 June 2011 09:04, Henk Slaaf <henk@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >>> Well, as he wrote he's using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I
                            >> find
                            >>> other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                            >>> because they are so different from vim. And there's another point
                            >> speaking
                            >>> against notepad++: It only runs on windows (or maybe on emulated
                            >> windows).
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> I'll try and start a .vimrc section in SVN for hackers that like to use
                            >> vim.
                            >> The syntax highlighting needs work and we need mappings to easily work in
                            >> LST files and create a clean diff.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> One of the problems with a lot of current commits is that the diff is very
                            >> large because of the scores of lines where only the whitespace has changed.
                            >> This makes merging very difficult and makes reviewing near-impossble.
                            >>
                            >> Editing with vertical spacing creates very, very clean diffs and gives us a
                            >> proper reviewing view.
                            >>
                            >> Thanks,
                            >>
                            >> Henk
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Related Lists
                            >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            >> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                            >> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                            >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            >> PCGen's Online Docs:
                            >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                            >> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                            >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                            >>
                            >> PCGen List File Help:
                            >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                            >>
                            >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                            >> (for new official data source development)
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
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                            --
                            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Andrew Wilson
                            ... Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully this wasn t Barak — hi Barak /waves). Generally, changing the tab character from 8
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                              On 6 June 2011 12:00, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:

                              > Tab spaces are default 8? I wonder why the data standard is set for 6
                              > then.


                              Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully
                              this wasn't Barak — hi Barak /waves).

                              Generally, changing the tab character from 8 spaces is a complete
                              no no. In certain quarters the fact that I'm suggesting it here clearly
                              labels me a heretic. Next thing you know it be crack whores in the
                              street and drive by shootings.


                              > All I know it's been that standard for as long as I've been around.


                              It also predates me.

                              andrew


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Barak
                              ... ROFL... not this clueless muppet. It predates me as well. If I had to guess I d lay it at Tir s feet (or pehaps Mynex). :P_ As for why, my bet would be
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully this
                                > wasn't Barak — hi Barak /waves).

                                ROFL... not this clueless muppet. It predates me as well.

                                If I had to guess I'd lay it at Tir's feet (or pehaps Mynex). :P_

                                As for why, my bet would be they were trying to cut down on line length but still keep a decent space.

                                Barak
                              • Andrew
                                Hi, It shouldn t be hard to change to 8, if such a thing is heretical. Just need to change prettylst and change a couple of webpages/docs. ... -- Andrew
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                                  Hi,

                                  It shouldn't be hard to change to 8, if such a thing is heretical. Just need to change prettylst and
                                  change a couple of webpages/docs.


                                  On 6/6/2011 6:25 AM, Barak wrote:
                                  >> -----Original Message-----
                                  >> Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully this
                                  >> wasn't Barak — hi Barak /waves).
                                  > ROFL... not this clueless muppet. It predates me as well.
                                  >
                                  > If I had to guess I'd lay it at Tir's feet (or pehaps Mynex). :P_
                                  >
                                  > As for why, my bet would be they were trying to cut down on line length but still keep a decent space.
                                  >
                                  > Barak
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Related Lists
                                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                  > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                  > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                  >
                                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  >
                                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  > (for new official data source development)
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • FerretDave
                                  Greetings, Yes, familiarity (through work) is the biggie, the other thing is, as you say, vim works anywhere...even on some of the more obscure OS s there s
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                                    Greetings,
                                    Yes, familiarity (through work) is the biggie, the other thing is, as you say, vim works anywhere...even on some of the more obscure OS's there's still a copy of 'vi' at least.
                                    It probably does boil down to touch typing too - using Vim I rarely take my hands off the keyboard.

                                    I did try notepad++, and I think I couldnt get the syntax colouring to work for pcc & lst files, so thought there was no real gain to be had, and moved back.
                                    I'll try it again if I can figure the syntax colouring.

                                    Cheers
                                    Dave
                                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Susan Dittmar <Susan.Dittmar@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > I don't know why the previous poster disagreed with Notepad++ - I find
                                    > > it useful for almost all plain-text purposes.
                                    >
                                    > Well, as he wrote he's using vim at work extensively. I do, too, and I find
                                    > other editors quite difficult to handle -- no matter how good they are --
                                    > because they are so different from vim. And there's another point speaking
                                    > against notepad++: It only runs on windows (or maybe on emulated windows).
                                    >
                                    > Susan
                                    >
                                  • FerretDave
                                    Greetings, It is (or at least was) common practice to reduce the tabstop to less than 8, to save space in program code - each loop or conditional is indented
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                                      Greetings,

                                      It is (or at least was) common practice to reduce the tabstop to less than 8, to 'save space' in program code - each loop or conditional is indented to make it more readable, and 8 spaces for a tab can be excessive once you've got a lot of nested code. 4 or 6 is fairly common, and I'd guess that the originator of this setting just used the standard that they used for their other code.

                                      With list files, there's no reason to use any particular value, we're resigned to having to scroll through the long lines anyway, so I'd vote for putting it back to a standard setting of 8.

                                      Cheers
                                      D

                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi,
                                      >
                                      > It shouldn't be hard to change to 8, if such a thing is heretical. Just need to change prettylst and
                                      > change a couple of webpages/docs.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 6/6/2011 6:25 AM, Barak wrote:
                                      > >> -----Original Message-----
                                      > >> Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully this
                                      > >> wasn't Barak â€" hi Barak /waves).
                                      > > ROFL... not this clueless muppet. It predates me as well.
                                      > >
                                      > > If I had to guess I'd lay it at Tir's feet (or pehaps Mynex). :P_
                                      > >
                                      > > As for why, my bet would be they were trying to cut down on line length but still keep a decent space.
                                      > >
                                      > > Barak
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > Related Lists
                                      > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                      > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                      > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                      > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                      > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                      > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                      > >
                                      > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                      > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                      > >
                                      > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                      > > (for new official data source development)
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                      > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                                      > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                                      > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                      > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • FerretDave
                                      Its also advised to actually note any nonstandard tab stops as a comment at the start of the file :-)
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 6, 2011
                                        Its also advised to actually note any nonstandard tab stops as a comment at the start of the file :-)

                                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi,
                                        >
                                        > It shouldn't be hard to change to 8, if such a thing is heretical. Just need to change prettylst and
                                        > change a couple of webpages/docs.
                                      • Ainvar G
                                        Well, in my (pre-computer) keyboarding classes a very long time ago, a tab was defined as 6 characters.  Until today, I thought that was still normal, to be
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 15, 2011
                                          Well, in my (pre-computer) keyboarding classes a very long time ago, a tab was defined as 6 characters.  Until today, I thought that was still normal, to be honest.

                                          AinvarG



                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Andrew Wilson <andrew@...>
                                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Monday, June 6, 2011 6:27 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Advice on how to edit the LST files?


                                           
                                          On 6 June 2011 12:00, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:

                                          > Tab spaces are default 8? I wonder why the data standard is set for 6
                                          > then.

                                          Someone on the original data team is/was a clueless muppet (hopefully
                                          this wasn't Barak — hi Barak /waves).

                                          Generally, changing the tab character from 8 spaces is a complete
                                          no no. In certain quarters the fact that I'm suggesting it here clearly
                                          labels me a heretic. Next thing you know it be crack whores in the
                                          street and drive by shootings.

                                          > All I know it's been that standard for as long as I've been around.

                                          It also predates me.

                                          andrew

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Susan Dittmar
                                          ... Funny. In my keyboarding classes, also pre-computer, a tab was defined by pressing the tab key, which transported the typewriter head to the next tab-stop.
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 16, 2011
                                            Quoting Ainvar G (ainvarg@...):
                                            > Well, in my (pre-computer) keyboarding classes a very long time ago, a
                                            > tab was defined as 6 characters.  Until today, I thought that was still
                                            > normal, to be honest.

                                            Funny. In my keyboarding classes, also pre-computer, a tab was defined by
                                            pressing the tab key, which transported the typewriter head to the next
                                            tab-stop. According to---if I remember correctly---a DIN (German Industry
                                            Norm) the distance of those tab-stops was defined as 8. Which was the same
                                            my grandpa's old and wonderful mechanical typewriter had built in.

                                            Susan
                                          • FerretDave
                                            Greetings, I m sure when I learnt to touchtype* my manual typewriter had settable tabstops, you could realign them to any column you required... That s the
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 16, 2011
                                              Greetings,
                                              I'm sure when I learnt to touchtype* my manual typewriter had settable tabstops, you could realign them to any column you required...

                                              That's the point I guess, a tab is to line up the text into a 'convenient' position, it certainly wasnt a fixed number globally, and wasnt even a fixed number for each tab on a line! (tab stops set at column 6,20,28,36 & 50 would do your paragraph indent and data into a table)

                                              however we probably digress... set tabs at whatever looks good, and just be consistent, and indicate what size you use.

                                              *Touchtyping - I'd consider that a prerequisite to 'enjoy' using vi :-) A mouse is unnecessary.

                                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Susan Dittmar <Susan.Dittmar@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Quoting Ainvar G (ainvarg@...):
                                              > > Well, in my (pre-computer) keyboarding classes a very long time ago, a
                                              > > tab was defined as 6 characters.  Until today, I thought that was still
                                              > > normal, to be honest.
                                              >
                                              > Funny. In my keyboarding classes, also pre-computer, a tab was defined by
                                              > pressing the tab key, which transported the typewriter head to the next
                                              > tab-stop. According to---if I remember correctly---a DIN (German Industry
                                              > Norm) the distance of those tab-stops was defined as 8. Which was the same
                                              > my grandpa's old and wonderful mechanical typewriter had built in.
                                              >
                                              > Susan
                                              >
                                            • Ainvar G
                                              Making me think way back now, aren t you? If memory serves, we had two choices of fonts to work with - Elite and Pica. I believe Elite was 12 characters per
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 19, 2011
                                                Making me think way back now, aren't you?

                                                If memory serves, we had two choices of fonts to work with - Elite and Pica. I believe Elite was 12 characters per inch while Pica was 10 cpi.  We generally used Elite.  Thinking back, I don't remember if we were supposed to be setting the tab stops at the half-inch or at 6 characters, but it was effectively the same.

                                                But as usual, you are correct - the tabs were defined by the tab stops on the typewriters -- the practice in our coursework happened to work out to be 6 characters, so it's always been the norm in the back of my mind, I guess.

                                                And for the record, I'm not knocking vi in any fashion -- I'm not a professional developer, but it's a virtual guarantee that will spend an hour or two using it every day I'm at work. I prefer it to the alternatives that the whippersnappers keep showing me. ;-)



                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Susan Dittmar <Susan.Dittmar@...>
                                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 3:38 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Advice on how to edit the LST files?


                                                 
                                                Quoting Ainvar G (ainvarg@...):
                                                > Well, in my (pre-computer) keyboarding classes a very long time ago, a
                                                > tab was defined as 6 characters.  Until today, I thought that was still
                                                > normal, to be honest.

                                                Funny. In my keyboarding classes, also pre-computer, a tab was defined by
                                                pressing the tab key, which transported the typewriter head to the next
                                                tab-stop. According to---if I remember correctly---a DIN (German Industry
                                                Norm) the distance of those tab-stops was defined as 8. Which was the same
                                                my grandpa's old and wonderful mechanical typewriter had built in.

                                                Susan




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