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RE: [pcgen] Re: Problems Starting

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  • Harvey Howell
    Thanks James, That really helped. For the first time ever, I was able to use PCGen last night flawlessly while gaming. To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com From:
    Message 1 of 15 , May 5, 2011
      Thanks James,

      That really helped. For the first time ever, I was able to use PCGen last night flawlessly while gaming.



      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      From: jdempsey@...
      Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 15:24:22 +1000
      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Problems Starting






      Oops, that should be options.ini and filter.ini you shgould rename out
      of the way.

      Cheers,
      James Dempsey
      PCGen Code SB

      On 4 May 2011 14:38, tripleh5133 <tripleh5133@...> wrote:
      > That may be where I'm having a problem. In the .pcgen folder I have the following:
      >
      > Folder - characters (empty)
      > Folder - customsources (empty)
      > Folder - vendordata (empty)
      > filter.ini
      > options.ini
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi,
      >>
      >> In your C:\Users\username\.pcgen folder you'll see a file settings.ini
      >>
      >> While PCGen is not running, please rename this to something else and
      >> then restart PCGen. This will reset your settings back to their
      >> defaults. Please let us know if that helps with the problem.
      >>
      >> Cheers,
      >> James Dempsey
      >> PCGen Code SB
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> On 4 May 2011 14:10, tripleh5133 <tripleh5133@...> wrote:
      >> > It's that same as identified in post# 105778
      >> >
      >> > The sources do load & I do see them, but my races are extremely limited as indicated in the original post.
      >> >
      >> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@> wrote:
      >> >>
      >> >> Hi,
      >> >>
      >> >> *enter the admin debugging monkey*
      >> >>
      >> >> Version of PCGen during this test?
      >> >> Java Version?
      >> >>
      >> >> Any console errors? (If so please post them here)
      >> >>
      >> >> Can you describe in a little more detail about this inability to create a character?
      >> >> Do the sources not load?
      >> >> Do you even see the sources?
      >> >>
      >> >> Step by step process will definitely help.
      >> >>
      >> >> Details are the bread and butter of speedy resolution.
      >> >>
      >> >> Cheers,
      >> >>
      >> >> On 5/3/2011 8:36 PM, tripleh5133 wrote:
      >> >> > Ok, taking everyone's advice, I just reinstalled directly into its own folder on my hard drive and I'm still unable to create a character using the following sources:
      >> >> >
      >> >> > RSRD 3.5e
      >> >> > Mongoose Collector Series
      >> >> >
      >> >> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Patryk Adamski <ruemere@> wrote:
      >> >> >> Hello TAYLOR,
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> the comments follow.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Tuesday, May 3, 2011, 1:46:41 PM, you wrote:
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> I was trying to stay out of involved Windows installer bashing, but before
      >> >> >> TN> Patryk issues Jiras I have to take issue with his points
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> I'm fully aware that my advice is more of a "hack" than a solid
      >> >> >> approach. That's why I am quite unlikely to raise a Jira.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> 1) no the Windows .exe Installer is NOT problematic in itself - I have been
      >> >> >> TN> using it since I started with PCGen, both on Windows XP and Windows 7-64.
      >> >> >> TN> PCGen "just works" from running the .EXE (though see (2))
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> I've run pcGen under WinXp, Win2000, Win98 (just for the heck of it),
      >> >> >> Fedora and Ubuntu. No experience using Macs, sorry. Also Vista (x64),
      >> >> >> 7 (x64).
      >> >> >> I've also run pcGen in headless mode (for batch processing of user
      >> >> >> files).
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> In general, installers (either MSI or EXE) are *better* than ZIP folders as
      >> >> >> TN> they can currently adjust the working environment for a program as they
      >> >> >> TN> install it.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> If only the installers allowed for clear separation of versions. They
      >> >> >> don't, so as soon as you try to do side-by-side install using default
      >> >> >> options, you're going to run into problems, especially, if you try
      >> >> >> running an legacy version with commercial datasets (CMP).
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> They also link into Windows Add/Remove system and arrange to be
      >> >> >> TN> Uninstallable.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Unless there is a clear migration path policy in place or separation
      >> >> >> of different version, this is a trap for most users accustomed to
      >> >> >> transparent application upgrade.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> Very few Windows programs guarantee to work correctly with no further
      >> >> >> TN> effort, if installed from a ZIP.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Unpacking is quite different from installing.
      >> >> >> Decently prepared applications know how to handle themselves properly
      >> >> >> if unpacked... pcGen unpacked and run for the first time allows to set
      >> >> >> default options properly, as opposed to installer.
      >> >> >> Actually, using portable version of any application is a healthy
      >> >> >> approach nowadays, as it allows for greater freedom with regard to
      >> >> >> system configuration.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> there should be no Jira deprecating the .exe installer
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> I am quite far from advocating depreciation of the installer.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> re Patryk's extra explanation - there are indeed some issues with
      >> >> >> TN> side-by-side installations of multiple versions of PCGen, but unrelated to
      >> >> >> TN> the install paths per se.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> The severity of issues is highly debatable. I would recommend use
      >> >> >> "severe" instead of "some".
      >> >> >> And default install paths, which do not allow for clear separation of
      >> >> >> versions are at the root of the problem.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> And the installer is NOT wrongly placing the program in a non-editable
      >> >> >> TN> location - it would be the *right* place if PCGen were fixed re editable
      >> >> >> TN> files. The explanation for (2) is the correct one, which is that PCGen does
      >> >> >> TN> not obey the Windows restriction not to place editable files in Program
      >> >> >> TN> Files tree.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> There is a reason why database applications are using their own
      >> >> >> install locations.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> The way I see it, pcGen should use separate install locations for
      >> >> >> different portions of the application, with provision for different
      >> >> >> versions, for example:
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> - user data version XXX,
      >> >> >> - user settings version XXX,
      >> >> >> - application core files version XXX,
      >> >> >> - application data version XXX,
      >> >> >> - application settings version XXX.
      >> >> >> - application plugins core files version XXX,
      >> >> >> - application plugins data version XXX,
      >> >> >> - application plugins settings version XXX,
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> All "core" items would be available for add/remove (install/uninstall),
      >> >> >> configuration data (like datasets and game mode) would be placed in
      >> >> >> "data" items.
      >> >> >> The settings elements would be used for performing data migrations and
      >> >> >> adjusting user experience.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> 2) I agree about installing to an alternative folder.
      >> >> >> TN> Since PCGen keeps modifiable data files in the progree tree, you should
      >> >> >> TN> install PCGen to a location outside the Program File folder tree.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> Patryk's explanation is ill-founded, cursing Windows file-protection
      >> >> >> TN> mechanisms. Without going into details, there are a great many positive
      >> >> >> TN> reasons why Microsoft have been right to protect the Windows and Program
      >> >> >> TN> Files folders, and with the UAC controls work well... PLEASE don't let's get
      >> >> >> TN> into a slanging match over those.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Why put in application space software which clearly requires user
      >> >> >> space privileges, and which does not interact with system unless
      >> >> >> forced by installer?
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> To put it like this: pcGen does not need to interact with system,
      >> >> >> therefore making it a part of a system is needlessly restrictive.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> It remains true that the bodge of pushing PCGen into an alternative folder
      >> >> >> TN> tree works round the error in PCGen's behaviour.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Again, pcGen, as it is, is a user space application, forcing it into
      >> >> >> application space is unnecessary, and, as evidenced multiple times,
      >> >> >> causes problems for less savvy users.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> By the way, pcGen is intended for people, not for power users only.
      >> >> >> Therefore it should not require specialized knowledge to run.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> I do not understand Patryk's complaint about Documents or Desktop, unless it
      >> >> >> TN> is to say "do not install PCGen onto the desktop" - he does not actually say
      >> >> >> TN> this, though he may intend it.
      >> >> >> TN> If so, I would agree with that: don't install programs into the first folder
      >> >> >> TN> that falls to hand - think about where you install it!
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> One of the most problematic issues with Windows is that it changes
      >> >> >> user profile paths in certain cases. Since pcGen in some cases uses absolute paths, use
      >> >> >> of default user profile folder will invalidate pcGen whenever such
      >> >> >> event occurs (system reinstallation, user registry corruption, zealous
      >> >> >> antivirus protection mechanism, etc).
      >> >> >> Granted, this is not likely to happen, but it is quite possible in
      >> >> >> certain environments (users of Home Server, beware).
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> 3) there is no need to force PCGen settings to an alternative folder - the
      >> >> >> TN> default folder works fine.
      >> >> >> TN> I also have had no problem setting the preference path for loading PCG files
      >> >> >> TN> to a variety of folders, moving it as I move between projects.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> There is no reason not to place a tree of character files in My Documents.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> See above.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> I would mildly agree with not placing PCG files in My Documents itself, but
      >> >> >> TN> only because it gets so cluttered if you place all documents in one folder.
      >> >> >> TN> I'm far too tidy for that and divide campaigns into sub-folders, with
      >> >> >> TN> sub-wsub-folders for generations of characters etc...
      >> >> >> TN> Backup - YES!
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> See above.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> TN> 4) no idea about "-" in path names. never done it...
      >> >> >> TN> I have no problem with a variety of other odd characters in path names as
      >> >> >> TN> used for data files, or linked files eg companions and images.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> It may be an old error. The problem occurred when the path was related
      >> >> >> to PDF export and sometimes to loading characters files.
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >>
      >> >> >> Regards,
      >> >> >> Ruemere




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