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Format for PCC Source

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  • Eric Statz
    Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info for pcc files? I was thinking something along the lines of: phb.pcc: SOURCE:D&D 3rd Ed. Player s
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 29, 2001
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      Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info for pcc
      files?

      I was thinking something along the lines of:

      phb.pcc:

      SOURCE:D&D 3rd Ed. Player's Handbook; (c) 2000-2001 Wizards of the
      Coast; http://www.wizards.com

      Any suggestions/comments? I'll take care of the WOTC ones if we can
      agree on a format (as those are the ones I own).

      Somebody else is going to have to do the lst files. Any volunteers?
      (Lets try and get that done for 2.1.3, as the current bugs don't
      effect adding the tags, and we need to get them in place ASAP.
      (Another good excuse for a quick release)

      -Eric
      (Off to be oriented some more... Pahh!)
    • merton_monk@yahoo.com
      What you are suggesting is very much along the lines I was thinking. On a side note, I ve exchanged email with people at Penumbra and Sword and Sorcery -
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 29, 2001
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        What you are suggesting is very much along the lines I was thinking.

        On a side note, I've exchanged email with people at Penumbra and
        Sword and Sorcery - neither are hostile to PCGen but both are being
        (understandably) cautious about just what "permission" to give us to
        include their stuff. We'll work it out - but at least I think it's
        safe to say that they're not upset about us including their
        material. I don't think this kind of psedo-alliance has ever been
        done in the on-line RPG community, so why not be the first, right? :)

        At a minimum I'm tyring to make sure that everyone who owns the
        material we have in our releases is aware of us and doesn't mind our
        endeavor. It does seem like we will have to seriously undertake an
        effort to make our data-files to be OGL compliant. That way we don't
        need anyone's permission and don't have to worry about copyrights or
        trademarks. I'd rather write code than figure out exactly what it
        would take to become OGL compliant (I think it's only fuzzily-defined
        anyway), but oh well. My one driving motivation is to stop all the
        legality posts here and elsewhere. :)

        One misconception that people seem to have is that software can be
        OGL compliant. It doesn't need to be - PCGen doesn't know
        what "skills" do or what their function is - it simply knows that
        skills exist. The data-files tell it what the skills are called, who
        can get them at what cost, and which ones have synergies with other
        ones. So I'm not concerned about the app itself at all - just the
        data-files. Since we're free, I don't think anyone would ever bother
        us, but it doesn't hurt to make some changes if that's what it takes
        to avert even that marginal possibility. Besides, contacting everyone
        and gaining even a non-written permission is a professional
        courtesy. Okay, I'm done rambling!

        -Bryan

        --- In pcgen@y..., "Eric Statz" <eric_statz@y...> wrote:
        > Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info for pcc
        > files?
        >
        > I was thinking something along the lines of:
        >
        > phb.pcc:
        >
        > SOURCE:D&D 3rd Ed. Player's Handbook; (c) 2000-2001 Wizards of the
        > Coast; http://www.wizards.com
        >
      • Arcady
        It might be nice if the SOURCE tage supported a URL= entry... We could then put a link to publisher s websites for those that desire it or don t object to it.
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 29, 2001
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          It might be nice if the SOURCE tage supported a URL= entry...
          We could then put a link to publisher's websites for those
          that desire it or don't object to it.


          --- Eric Statz <eric_statz@...> wrote:
          > Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info
          > for pcc
          > files?


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        • merton_monk@yahoo.com
          The SOURCE: tag will work with any string - so URLs are fine. -Bryan ... Messenger
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 29, 2001
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            The SOURCE: tag will work with any string - so URLs are fine.

            -Bryan

            --- In pcgen@y..., Arcady <arcady0@y...> wrote:
            > It might be nice if the SOURCE tage supported a URL= entry...
            > We could then put a link to publisher's websites for those
            > that desire it or don't object to it.
            >
            >
            > --- Eric Statz <eric_statz@y...> wrote:
            > > Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info
            > > for pcc
            > > files?
            >
            >
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          • Paul W. King
            ... But where does it go? In the *.pcc file, in each instatiation of a feat/class/skill/etc.? Paul W. King
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 30, 2001
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              > The SOURCE: tag will work with any string - so URLs are fine.

              But where does it go? In the *.pcc file, in each instatiation of a
              feat/class/skill/etc.?

              Paul W. King
            • Arcady
              However that URL is not something I can click on.What I m saying here is there ought to be a URL= entry that puts in a link that can be clicked to spawn the
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                However that URL is not something I can click on.

                What I'm saying here is there ought to be a URL= entry that puts in a link
                that can be clicked to spawn the default browser and go to the page listed.

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: merton_monk@... [mailto:merton_monk@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:16 PM
                > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Format for PCC Source
                >
                >
                > The SOURCE: tag will work with any string - so URLs are fine.
                >
                > -Bryan
                >
                > --- In pcgen@y..., Arcady <arcady0@y...> wrote:
                > > It might be nice if the SOURCE tage supported a URL= entry...
                > > We could then put a link to publisher's websites for those
                > > that desire it or don't object to it.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- Eric Statz <eric_statz@y...> wrote:
                > > > Have we decided on a format for the Copyright/Source info
                > > > for pcc
                > > > files?
                > >
                > >
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              • Eric Statz
                ... Actually, any of them. The PCC files SOURCE tags show up on the campaign tab... .and will be something like: D&D 3rd Ed. Players Handbook; (c) 2000-2001
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                  --- In pcgen@y..., "Paul W. King" <pkingdnd@y...> wrote:
                  > > The SOURCE: tag will work with any string - so URLs are fine.
                  >
                  > But where does it go? In the *.pcc file, in each instatiation of a
                  > feat/class/skill/etc.?
                  >
                  > Paul W. King

                  Actually, any of them. The PCC files SOURCE tags show up on the
                  campaign tab... .and will be something like:

                  D&D 3rd Ed. Players Handbook; (c) 2000-2001 Wizards of the Coast;
                  http://www.wizards.com

                  In the race.lst files, it shows up on the race tab, so we use a
                  shortended format, with page number:

                  PHB, p 36

                  You can put them in any of the lst files, and they will show up on
                  the appropriate tab.

                  -Eric
                • Paul W. King
                  ... So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have a SOURCE: tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file? Paul W. King
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                    > Actually, any of them. The PCC files SOURCE tags show up on the
                    > campaign tab... .and will be something like:
                    >
                    > D&D 3rd Ed. Players Handbook; (c) 2000-2001 Wizards of the Coast;
                    > http://www.wizards.com
                    >
                    > In the race.lst files, it shows up on the race tab, so we use a
                    > shortended format, with page number:
                    >
                    > PHB, p 36
                    >
                    > You can put them in any of the lst files, and they will show up on
                    > the appropriate tab.

                    So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have a SOURCE:
                    tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file?

                    Paul W. King
                  • STILES, BRAD
                    ... Please, make it Source Material . Brad
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: merton_monk@... [mailto:merton_monk@...]
                      >
                      > double-clicking on those tables for other things. Or should this be
                      > restricted to just the "Campaign" (soon to be renamed "Materials")
                      > tab?

                      Please, make it "Source Material".

                      Brad
                    • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                      Hmmm... maybe if you double-click on a source, PCGen should look for something like http:// and try to open that in a browser? I think that should be possible
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                        Hmmm... maybe if you double-click on a source, PCGen should look for
                        something like http:// and try to open that in a browser? I think
                        that should be possible - though it might be confusing if we use
                        double-clicking on those tables for other things. Or should this be
                        restricted to just the "Campaign" (soon to be renamed "Materials")
                        tab?

                        -Bryan

                        --- In pcgen@y..., "Arcady" <arcady0@y...> wrote:
                        > However that URL is not something I can click on.
                        >
                        > What I'm saying here is there ought to be a URL= entry that puts in
                        a link
                        > that can be clicked to spawn the default browser and go to the page
                        listed.
                        >
                      • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                        ... the SOURCE: tag can go in the .pcc file (just by itself on a line, though I think this won t work correctly until 2.1.3). If you look in the phb campaign,
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                          >
                          > So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have a
                          SOURCE:
                          > tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file?

                          the SOURCE: tag can go in the .pcc file (just by itself on a line,
                          though I think this won't work correctly until 2.1.3). If you look
                          in the phb campaign, I already added the SOURCE: tags to the
                          phbrace.lst, phbclass.lst, phbfeat.lst, phbskill.lst, phbdeity.lst
                          and phbdomain.lst. You can use those as examples - the SOURCE: tag
                          goes on the line of the item.

                          -Bryan
                        • Arcady
                          Personally I think the SOURCE tag should work both ways. Put it at the top of a lst file. And then allow an item in the file to have a SOURCE tag that
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                            Personally I think the SOURCE tag should work both ways.


                            Put it at the top of a lst file. And then allow an item in
                            the file to have a SOURCE tag that overwrites the one at the
                            top of the file for that item only.

                            This would do a lot to keep filesize down. Since there's only
                            a few cases where not all the items in a lst file come from
                            the same book. Like the Dragon and Magic campaigns.

                            Though this logic assumes we don't desire to do specific page
                            numbers for every item. Which I don't see as a problem,
                            that's why those darn books come with their own tables of
                            contents. Our goal is to just to get people to go get the
                            book. :)


                            --- "Paul W. King" <pkingdnd@...> wrote:
                            > > Actually, any of them. The PCC files SOURCE tags show up
                            > So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have
                            > a SOURCE:
                            > tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file?


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                          • Arcady
                            Well if we add an actual URL= thing, like say how it s done in UBB code: (c) 2001, Gamefoo Inc. [URL=http://www.gamefoo.com]http://www.gamefoo.com[/URL] In
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                              Well if we add an actual 'URL=' thing, like say how it's done
                              in UBB code:

                              (c) 2001, Gamefoo Inc.
                              [URL=http://www.gamefoo.com]http://www.gamefoo.com[/URL]

                              In this it could be a single click, but only the text inside
                              the [URL] tag is hyperlinked. click anywhere else in the
                              source field and it just works like normal PCGen.


                              --- merton_monk@... wrote:
                              > Hmmm... maybe if you double-click on a source, PCGen should
                              > look for
                              > something like http:// and try to open that in a browser?
                              > I think
                              > that should be possible - though it might be confusing if
                              > we use
                              > double-clicking on those tables for other things. Or
                              > should this be
                              > restricted to just the "Campaign" (soon to be renamed
                              > "Materials")
                              > tab?
                              >
                              > -Bryan
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@y..., "Arcady" <arcady0@y...> wrote:
                              > > However that URL is not something I can click on.
                              > >
                              > > What I'm saying here is there ought to be a URL= entry
                              > that puts in
                              > a link
                              > > that can be clicked to spawn the default browser and go
                              > to the page
                              > listed.
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                            • Paul W. King
                              ... Cool, thanks. Just a thought though, since I know that you re trying to go for OGL compliance, wouldn t it be better to NOT mention the PHB, DMG and MM,
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                > the SOURCE: tag can go in the .pcc file (just by itself on a line,
                                > though I think this won't work correctly until 2.1.3). If you look
                                > in the phb campaign, I already added the SOURCE: tags to the
                                > phbrace.lst, phbclass.lst, phbfeat.lst, phbskill.lst, phbdeity.lst
                                > and phbdomain.lst. You can use those as examples - the SOURCE: tag
                                > goes on the line of the item.

                                Cool, thanks. Just a thought though, since I know that you're trying
                                to go for OGL compliance, wouldn't it be better to NOT mention the
                                PHB, DMG and MM, and instead state SRD?

                                Paul W. King
                              • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                                What I plan on having (either in 2.1.3 or 2.1.4) is having the pcc SOURCE: tag fill in for any items loaded through that campaign that don t have a SOURCE:
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                  What I plan on having (either in 2.1.3 or 2.1.4) is having the pcc
                                  SOURCE: tag fill in for any items loaded through that campaign that
                                  don't have a SOURCE: tag. This way you could set one in the pcc
                                  file, and only put one in the lst files if you didn't want the main
                                  source tag. I think, especially for spells, that a page reference is
                                  very useful.

                                  -Bryan

                                  --- In pcgen@y..., Arcady <arcady0@y...> wrote:
                                  > Personally I think the SOURCE tag should work both ways.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Put it at the top of a lst file. And then allow an item in
                                  > the file to have a SOURCE tag that overwrites the one at the
                                  > top of the file for that item only.
                                  >
                                  > This would do a lot to keep filesize down. Since there's only
                                  > a few cases where not all the items in a lst file come from
                                  > the same book. Like the Dragon and Magic campaigns.
                                  >
                                  > Though this logic assumes we don't desire to do specific page
                                  > numbers for every item. Which I don't see as a problem,
                                  > that's why those darn books come with their own tables of
                                  > contents. Our goal is to just to get people to go get the
                                  > book. :)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- "Paul W. King" <pkingdnd@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > Actually, any of them. The PCC files SOURCE tags show up
                                  > > So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have
                                  > > a SOURCE:
                                  > > tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file?
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                                  Hm - okay. That seems like a good idea. Jonas did the work to get the character sheet to open in a browser, so maybe he would be the one to handle this.
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                    Hm - okay. That seems like a good idea. Jonas did the work to get
                                    the character sheet to open in a browser, so maybe he would be the
                                    one to handle this. Jonas, do you think you could handle this one? ;)

                                    -Bryan

                                    --- In pcgen@y..., Arcady <arcady0@y...> wrote:
                                    > Well if we add an actual 'URL=' thing, like say how it's done
                                    > in UBB code:
                                    >
                                    > (c) 2001, Gamefoo Inc.
                                    > [URL=http://www.gamefoo.com]http://www.gamefoo.com[/URL]
                                    >
                                    > In this it could be a single click, but only the text inside
                                    > the [URL] tag is hyperlinked. click anywhere else in the
                                    > source field and it just works like normal PCGen.
                                    >
                                  • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                                    ... line, ... look ... phbdeity.lst ... tag ... trying ... No - giving a book and page reference is not a problem unless we were to imply that *we* owned the
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                      --- In pcgen@y..., "Paul W. King" <pkingdnd@y...> wrote:
                                      > > the SOURCE: tag can go in the .pcc file (just by itself on a
                                      line,
                                      > > though I think this won't work correctly until 2.1.3). If you
                                      look
                                      > > in the phb campaign, I already added the SOURCE: tags to the
                                      > > phbrace.lst, phbclass.lst, phbfeat.lst, phbskill.lst,
                                      phbdeity.lst
                                      > > and phbdomain.lst. You can use those as examples - the SOURCE:
                                      tag
                                      > > goes on the line of the item.
                                      >
                                      > Cool, thanks. Just a thought though, since I know that you're
                                      trying
                                      > to go for OGL compliance, wouldn't it be better to NOT mention the
                                      > PHB, DMG and MM, and instead state SRD?

                                      No - giving a book and page reference is not a problem unless we were
                                      to imply that *we* owned the book in question... but I think most of
                                      the PCGen users will know who owns PHB.... ;)

                                      -Bryan

                                      >
                                      > Paul W. King
                                    • Robert Ward
                                      Bryan, Question on setup of this: If you have a personall pcc file that pulls multiple lst files for same line (i.e.CLASS:phb phbclass|fr frclass| etc) how
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                        Bryan,
                                        Question on setup of this:

                                        If you have a personall pcc file that pulls multiple lst files for
                                        same line (i.e.CLASS:phb\phbclass|fr\frclass| etc) how could you do
                                        the source listing here?

                                        It sounds like it can only take one SOURCE listing per file, but if
                                        I'm pulling multiple sources, then it won't work for me in the way I
                                        think you have it setup currently. Not that I'm that worried about
                                        it personally, since I own the source material in question, but some
                                        of my players don't. And since I just supply some personal lst files
                                        and my personal pcc file that pulls all the lst files with only one
                                        campaign needed to be loaded.

                                        Sorry about the rambling, but this is what happens when I run all day
                                        with only a few hours of sleep.

                                        -Robert Ward

                                        --- In pcgen@y..., merton_monk@y... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > So, are you saying that all items in a *.lst file can have a
                                        > SOURCE:
                                        > > tab, or that the SOURCE: tag goes at the top of said file?
                                        >
                                        > the SOURCE: tag can go in the .pcc file (just by itself on a line,
                                        > though I think this won't work correctly until 2.1.3). If you look
                                        > in the phb campaign, I already added the SOURCE: tags to the
                                        > phbrace.lst, phbclass.lst, phbfeat.lst, phbskill.lst, phbdeity.lst
                                        > and phbdomain.lst. You can use those as examples - the SOURCE: tag
                                        > goes on the line of the item.
                                        >
                                        > -Bryan
                                      • merton_monk@yahoo.com
                                        ... You can have a SOURCE: tag on every line - you ll notice that on every line of phbrace.lst I have a SOURCE: tag to indicate the page number in the PHB.
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                          --- In pcgen@y..., "Robert Ward" <rward30@h...> wrote:
                                          > Bryan,
                                          > Question on setup of this:
                                          >
                                          > If you have a personall pcc file that pulls multiple lst files for
                                          > same line (i.e.CLASS:phb\phbclass|fr\frclass| etc) how could you do
                                          > the source listing here?
                                          >

                                          You can have a SOURCE: tag on every line - you'll notice that on
                                          every line of phbrace.lst I have a SOURCE: tag to indicate the page
                                          number in the PHB. This wouldn't be affected by loading multiple
                                          source materials through one pcc file. The SOURCE: tag at the pcc
                                          level would serve as the default SOURCE: value for anything loaded
                                          through that pcc if it didn't already have it's own SOURCE tag. so if
                                          in myclass.lst I had
                                          someclass blad blah SOURCE:www.mysite.com/mycampaign/thisclass.html
                                          that value would overwrite whatever I had in the pcc file's SOURCE:
                                          tag. Is that clearer?

                                          -Bryan
                                        • Eric Statz
                                          ... I ... some ... files ... day ... There really isn t a way to do it cleanly in the pcc files. for the FR.pcc (which includes DMG, PHB, and FR stuff) I just
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 31, 2001
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                                            --- In pcgen@y..., "Robert Ward" <rward30@h...> wrote:
                                            > Bryan,
                                            > Question on setup of this:
                                            >
                                            > If you have a personall pcc file that pulls multiple lst files for
                                            > same line (i.e.CLASS:phb\phbclass|fr\frclass| etc) how could you do
                                            > the source listing here?
                                            >
                                            > It sounds like it can only take one SOURCE listing per file, but if
                                            > I'm pulling multiple sources, then it won't work for me in the way
                                            I
                                            > think you have it setup currently. Not that I'm that worried about
                                            > it personally, since I own the source material in question, but
                                            some
                                            > of my players don't. And since I just supply some personal lst
                                            files
                                            > and my personal pcc file that pulls all the lst files with only one
                                            > campaign needed to be loaded.
                                            >
                                            > Sorry about the rambling, but this is what happens when I run all
                                            day
                                            > with only a few hours of sleep.
                                            >
                                            > -Robert Ward
                                            >

                                            There really isn't a way to do it cleanly in the pcc files. for the
                                            FR.pcc (which includes DMG, PHB, and FR stuff) I just included all
                                            three in the source line...

                                            SOURCE: PHB, DMG, FR Campaign Setting; (c) WOTC... etc

                                            not the best solution, but the best I could figure out.

                                            My guess is eventually we'll restrict pcc files so they only load a
                                            single sourcebook apiece, and something in turn loads them.

                                            (shrug)

                                            -Eric
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