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A Few Summoner Questions/Observations

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  • santeeschroder
    I again want to start by complimenting everyone who is working on this project, it is amazing and one of the best parts is that it is still evolving, and if
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 1, 2011
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      I again want to start by complimenting everyone who is working on this project, it is amazing and one of the best parts is that it is still evolving, and if there is a problem it gets fixed very fast. So, thanks to all, and I hope you enjoyed the Christmas/New Year holidays.

      Now.

      I created a Halfling Summoner. One of the possibilities for Favored Class Bonus for them is Bonus Eidolon Skill. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should allow my Eidolon to have 5 skills trained instead of 4. However, he is stuck with 4, if I train an extra it tells me I'm at -1 and have too many skills trained. It's cosmetic, but as far as I know, incorrect.

      I made a serpentine Eidolon. The free evolutions are bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, and tail slap. This puts me at 2 attacks, and the range on the bite should be +5. At first level, the Eidolon can have 3 attacks, but if I were to, say, add another tail and tail slap again, it tells me that I can't because 'var: (EidMaxAttacks-EidUsedAttacks) at least 1'. I couldn't find where the variables are, but I am not really sure where to look. I could add sting because it wasn't looking at the number of attacks. In order to add sting, however, I needed to add 2 tails because it did not recognize the free tail as being there. Finally, the range of the bite was still 0, even after adding the reach onto it (it wasn't added initially).

      I understand that Summoner is a pain to try to code in, and you guys did a great job so far. I'm just trying to help make it even smoother. Thanks again!

      James
    • Drew0500
      Hi, SIDE NOTE: The main list is NOT sending me emails, so my replies are drastically longer since I need to manually look at this list. Luckily, mod alerts do
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 1, 2011
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        Hi,

        SIDE NOTE: The main list is NOT sending me emails, so my replies are drastically longer since I need to manually look at this list. Luckily, mod alerts do still work.

        The Summoner stuff is being worked on by one of our community members, sadly, the updates he's put in aren't seen unless you grab one of the OOC updates.

        If you want to get the updates manually, feel free to grab the (zip) folder here and here:

        http://pcgen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pcgen/Trunk/pcgen/data/alpha/paizo/pathfinder_rpg/advanced_players_guide/?view=tar

        That's just the APG

        For the whole RPG -

        http://pcgen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pcgen/Trunk/pcgen/data/alpha/paizo/pathfinder_rpg/?view=tar

        Which includes -
        Pathfinder Core
        APG
        Bestiary and Bonus
        Character Traits (Obselete)


        Grab either one and enjoy. If your issue is still present do follow up and let me know. I'll see if Chris is working on improving it. His last update was bringing it up to the just release errata.

        Cheers,

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "santeeschroder" <schroder08@...> wrote:
        >
        > I again want to start by complimenting everyone who is working on this project, it is amazing and one of the best parts is that it is still evolving, and if there is a problem it gets fixed very fast. So, thanks to all, and I hope you enjoyed the Christmas/New Year holidays.
        >
        > Now.
        >
        > I created a Halfling Summoner. One of the possibilities for Favored Class Bonus for them is Bonus Eidolon Skill. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should allow my Eidolon to have 5 skills trained instead of 4. However, he is stuck with 4, if I train an extra it tells me I'm at -1 and have too many skills trained. It's cosmetic, but as far as I know, incorrect.
        >
        > I made a serpentine Eidolon. The free evolutions are bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, and tail slap. This puts me at 2 attacks, and the range on the bite should be +5. At first level, the Eidolon can have 3 attacks, but if I were to, say, add another tail and tail slap again, it tells me that I can't because 'var: (EidMaxAttacks-EidUsedAttacks) at least 1'. I couldn't find where the variables are, but I am not really sure where to look. I could add sting because it wasn't looking at the number of attacks. In order to add sting, however, I needed to add 2 tails because it did not recognize the free tail as being there. Finally, the range of the bite was still 0, even after adding the reach onto it (it wasn't added initially).
        >
        > I understand that Summoner is a pain to try to code in, and you guys did a great job so far. I'm just trying to help make it even smoother. Thanks again!
        >
        > James
        >
      • Andrew Maitland
        Hi, Figured out the issue... PCGen was going to the bulk folder. Okay, onto the full reply: ... Thanks, it came and went... Till the next one strikes again.
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 1, 2011
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          Hi,

          Figured out the issue... PCGen was going to the bulk folder.

          Okay, onto the full reply:


          On 1/1/2011 1:36 PM, santeeschroder wrote:
          > I again want to start by complimenting everyone who is working on this project, it is amazing and one of the best parts is that it is still evolving, and if there is a problem it gets fixed very fast. So, thanks to all, and I hope you enjoyed the Christmas/New Year holidays.

          Thanks, it came and went... Till the next one strikes again.

          > Now.
          >
          > I created a Halfling Summoner. One of the possibilities for Favored Class Bonus for them is Bonus Eidolon Skill. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should allow my Eidolon to have 5 skills trained instead of 4. However, he is stuck with 4, if I train an extra it tells me I'm at -1 and have too many skills trained. It's cosmetic, but as far as I know, incorrect.

          Here's the issue. PCGen hasn't been able to modify a Skill Pool since day one. At least not in the
          sense of dynamic changes that you are expecting. It's a pain, but until the Code Team can solve this
          issue gracefully, it'll have to be a bit of a kludge.

          Now, here's the good news. If it's a truly pressing issue, I do have a hack that would work. Problem
          goes to the whole Master / Companion interaction. Master no problemo, I can give you a way to add
          skills till the cows come home. From the Master to the Companion, no such luck yet.

          So, two features that we need.

          > I made a serpentine Eidolon. The free evolutions are bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, and tail slap. This puts me at 2 attacks, and the range on the bite should be +5. At first level, the Eidolon can have 3 attacks, but if I were to, say, add another tail and tail slap again, it tells me that I can't because 'var: (EidMaxAttacks-EidUsedAttacks) at least 1'. I couldn't find where the variables are, but I am not really sure where to look. I could add sting because it wasn't looking at the number of attacks. In order to add sting, however, I needed to add 2 tails because it did not recognize the free tail as being there. Finally, the range of the bite was still 0, even after adding the reach onto it (it wasn't added initially).

          That should be fixed. I believe Chris handled that (Gjorbjond) is his call sign. If not, after you
          get the updates do let me know. I'll track him down and ask him to take a look at it.

          > I understand that Summoner is a pain to try to code in, and you guys did a great job so far. I'm just trying to help make it even smoother. Thanks again!

          Well thanks on behalf of the monkeys who've contributed to the data set.

          > James
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
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          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • santeeschroder
          Thanks for the info, I downloaded, then extracted the files into my PCGen directory, overwriting the old files. When I go to load my sources, I got a few
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 3, 2011
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            Thanks for the info, I downloaded, then extracted the files into my PCGen directory, overwriting the old files. When I go to load my sources, I got a few errors...

            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Colossal)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Diminutive)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Fine)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Gargantuan)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Huge)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Large)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Medium)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Small)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Bite ~ Claw (Tiny)
            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: PCTemplate Sorcerer Cleric Spells
            All Done

            I narrowed that down to the bestiary, and after adding Advanced Player Guide to the list, I also got this -

            SEVERE Unconstructed Reference: Ability Special Ability Ranger Favored Community

            My current loadout is Core rule book, Bestiary, Bonus Bestiary, Advanced Player Guide and Rise of the Runelords Players Guide. I made a new Eidolon, again using the serpentine base, and upon loading I am told -

            Warning: Could not load equipment: 1 Tail Slap (Natural/Primary). Check loaded campaigns.

            Warning: No longer proficient with following weapon(s):
            1 Tail Slap

            Going through the list of Eidolon Evolutions, I have found a few to be missing -

            Claws, Slam, Sting, Tail Slap, Tentacle, Wing Buffet.

            When you select Reach, it doesn't ask what attack to apply the Reach to, it just adds it to your list of evolutions.

            Tail Slap is neither in the list of available Evolutions or the list of Serpentine Evolutions to choose from, not a big issue on that but if I accidentally unselected the skill I'd have to revert to saved to correct that.

            Multiattack should be automatically added once the creature has 3 natural attacks. Not major, I can add a feat point and add the feat myself, but thought I'd mention it. Also, since one no longer has the tail slap proficiency then it won't count toward the 3 attacks.

            I have not read any errata, I will go search for that after this, so if anything I mentioned is covered by that, I apologize. Additionally, what editing program is recommended for modifying the files, should I decide to modify something myself? Thanks for reading this long post, and keep up the great work. :)

            James


            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Drew0500" <drew0500@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > SIDE NOTE: The main list is NOT sending me emails, so my replies are drastically longer since I need to manually look at this list. Luckily, mod alerts do still work.
            >
            > The Summoner stuff is being worked on by one of our community members, sadly, the updates he's put in aren't seen unless you grab one of the OOC updates.
            >
            > If you want to get the updates manually, feel free to grab the (zip) folder here and here:
            >
            > http://pcgen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pcgen/Trunk/pcgen/data/alpha/paizo/pathfinder_rpg/advanced_players_guide/?view=tar
            >
            > That's just the APG
            >
            > For the whole RPG -
            >
            > http://pcgen.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pcgen/Trunk/pcgen/data/alpha/paizo/pathfinder_rpg/?view=tar
            >
            > Which includes -
            > Pathfinder Core
            > APG
            > Bestiary and Bonus
            > Character Traits (Obselete)
            >
            >
            > Grab either one and enjoy. If your issue is still present do follow up and let me know. I'll see if Chris is working on improving it. His last update was bringing it up to the just release errata.
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "santeeschroder" <schroder08@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I again want to start by complimenting everyone who is working on this project, it is amazing and one of the best parts is that it is still evolving, and if there is a problem it gets fixed very fast. So, thanks to all, and I hope you enjoyed the Christmas/New Year holidays.
            > >
            > > Now.
            > >
            > > I created a Halfling Summoner. One of the possibilities for Favored Class Bonus for them is Bonus Eidolon Skill. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this should allow my Eidolon to have 5 skills trained instead of 4. However, he is stuck with 4, if I train an extra it tells me I'm at -1 and have too many skills trained. It's cosmetic, but as far as I know, incorrect.
            > >
            > > I made a serpentine Eidolon. The free evolutions are bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, and tail slap. This puts me at 2 attacks, and the range on the bite should be +5. At first level, the Eidolon can have 3 attacks, but if I were to, say, add another tail and tail slap again, it tells me that I can't because 'var: (EidMaxAttacks-EidUsedAttacks) at least 1'. I couldn't find where the variables are, but I am not really sure where to look. I could add sting because it wasn't looking at the number of attacks. In order to add sting, however, I needed to add 2 tails because it did not recognize the free tail as being there. Finally, the range of the bite was still 0, even after adding the reach onto it (it wasn't added initially).
            > >
            > > I understand that Summoner is a pain to try to code in, and you guys did a great job so far. I'm just trying to help make it even smoother. Thanks again!
            > >
            > > James
            > >
            >
          • gjorbjond
            I just made a few corrections this morning, so please download them and try it again. There s a code problem with natural attacks assigned by abilities. The
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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              I just made a few corrections this morning, so please download them and try it again.

              There's a code problem with natural attacks assigned by abilities. The warnings are bogus. Once it's loaded everything should be fine. It also give bogus errors for Sorcerers of the Draconic or Abyssal bloodlines since those grant claws.

              Evolutions that weren't showing up on the list should be there now.

              There are a couple of other issues I'm still looking at. The free evolutions aren't always getting auto-assigned if there's a prereq involved. That's why the reach evolution doesn't select yet.
            • santeeschroder
              Yay, I can reply now. :) I downloaded and updated my data. Thank you for the really fast response on that! Everything is listed as far as I know, and while
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 4, 2011
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                Yay, I can reply now. :)

                I downloaded and updated my data. Thank you for the really fast response on that! Everything is listed as far as I know, and while I do still get the 'weapon' errors on load I know from your comments that it doesn't affect anything.

                I am curious, and this is outside of the programming/software part, but I noticed the range in the program says 0 ft on the various attacks. Would that mean the next square, and once I add reach I can attack through an adjacent square into the one beyond?

                Speaking of reach, I know you mentioned that it has issues with auto-adding pre-req skills. I wonder if it would work better if it isn't auto-added since it's not too hard to add manually, if that would allow it to go back to being attached to a particular attack. Also if that were to also add the range to the attack listed, it'd be nice. However, I can also print it out and manually tweak it. I'm just mentioning a wishlist thing now.

                Again, thank you so much for your updating and tweaking and fixing, it is much appreciated.

                James

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond" <Gjorbjond@...> wrote:
                >
                > I just made a few corrections this morning, so please download them and try it again.
                >
                > There's a code problem with natural attacks assigned by abilities. The warnings are bogus. Once it's loaded everything should be fine. It also give bogus errors for Sorcerers of the Draconic or Abyssal bloodlines since those grant claws.
                >
                > Evolutions that weren't showing up on the list should be there now.
                >
                > There are a couple of other issues I'm still looking at. The free evolutions aren't always getting auto-assigned if there's a prereq involved. That's why the reach evolution doesn't select yet.
                >
              • gjorbjond
                I think I ve figured out most of the issues I was having with the eidolons. The only outstanding issue I know about is the bogus error messages for the
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                  I think I've figured out most of the issues I was having with the eidolons. The only outstanding issue I know about is the bogus error messages for the natural attacks.

                  Let me know if you come across anything else.
                • santeeschroder
                  Well, I am sure it s getting annoying, me focusing on one thing, but it s really the only problem I can see, and that is, again, reach. I m trying to make this
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                    Well, I am sure it's getting annoying, me focusing on one thing, but it's really the only problem I can see, and that is, again, reach.

                    I'm trying to make this completely newbie/blonde proof, and so I'll mention this part... I made a new summoner/eidolon (serpentine) to test it out. The reach was indeed added for bite, but it wasn't listed in the list of 'available' Eidolon Serpentine Evolutions, so if someone were to (for some random reason) remove the reach from bite, it would be removed from the list of current Evolutions (becoming 4/5) but not be listed on the available, so it could not be added back to that section. Not a major thing, but thought it would be worth mentioning. It would result in the need to revert to saved to get it back there, or else using that evolution spot if you wanted to have a second tail and take the reach in the regular evolutions.

                    Second, prior to this I was able to add reach to multiple evolutions, now it seems I am limited to one (and that one being Bite because of the free evolution). I re-read the description and realized that it did not include the line 'This evolution can be selected more than once.', so I am now wondering if it is indeed only a single use evolution. If so, then just to clean up the Evolution description in PCGen, might want to edit:

                    Type: EvolutionChoice. SpecialQuality. Extraordinary   Can be taken more than once

                    Also, this is again just to be picky and try to help make this as accurate/clean as possible, in both the inventory and the character sheet, the range of the weapon bite (or whatever reach is on) is still 0. It is mentioned in the Evolutions that the 'Reach increased 5 ft. with one of your 1 Bite', so it is on there, it's just not applied to the 'weapon' Bite. I'm not sure if this is somehow related to those odd errors at the beginning, but the 'bite' and 'tail slap' (and whatever other evolutions I have) are still listed in the weapons/inventory, so they are at least there.

                    Since I'm still level 1, I haven't really tried moving up the level ladder and adding the higher evolutions. As I explore more I will keep you updated if anything else needs tweaking.

                    James

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond" <Gjorbjond@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think I've figured out most of the issues I was having with the eidolons. The only outstanding issue I know about is the bogus error messages for the natural attacks.
                    >
                    > Let me know if you come across anything else.
                    >
                  • gjorbjond
                    Fixed the Serpentine Reach thing. I ve messed around with Reach and I think what I ve got is about as good as it s going to get. Reach can t be taken multiple
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                      Fixed the Serpentine Reach thing.

                      I've messed around with Reach and I think what I've got is about as good as it's going to get. Reach can't be taken multiple times and only applies to a single attack. It doesn't even apply to a single type of attack. If you have 6 claws, you only have reach with one of them. I guess you have one big beefy arm or something.

                      As far as I can tell, the bonus tag for reach only works when applied to all attacks.
                    • santeeschroder
                      Thanks. It all seems good, and I appreciate the clarification on how Reach worked. If I have any other concerns I will not hesitate to post. James
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 5, 2011
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                        Thanks. It all seems good, and I appreciate the clarification on how Reach worked. If I have any other concerns I will not hesitate to post.

                        James

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond" <Gjorbjond@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Fixed the Serpentine Reach thing.
                        >
                        > I've messed around with Reach and I think what I've got is about as good as it's going to get. Reach can't be taken multiple times and only applies to a single attack. It doesn't even apply to a single type of attack. If you have 6 claws, you only have reach with one of them. I guess you have one big beefy arm or something.
                        >
                        > As far as I can tell, the bonus tag for reach only works when applied to all attacks.
                        >
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