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[BUG] Low intelligence subtracts skill points below minimum?

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  • Allen Cohn
    [I m cross-posting this to the correct group. I would love some feedback about whether my understanding of the Pathfinder rule is correct.] Sorry bout that. I
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 17, 2010
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      [I'm cross-posting this to the correct group. I would love some feedback about whether my understanding of the Pathfinder rule is correct.]

      Sorry 'bout that. I (mistakenly) thought that since the Pathfinder set was still in the Alpha section that this would be the correct area to post this question in. If you want, I will migrate my reply to the other group.

      P. 17 of the core book says, "The number of skill points gained each level, though your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level."

      P. 27 says "Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level."

      P. 86 says "Humans gain 1 additional skill rank per class level."

      These, plus my interpretation of 3.5 rules, made me think that the "at least one skill point per level" rule applies before the human +1 bonus is applied. (I just tested a similar case in 3.5 and that does appear to be the way PCGen is implementing the 3.5 game mode.)

      What does the PCGen brain trust think?

      Many thanks,
      Allen

      --- In pcgen_experimental@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >
      > Just a note - Bugs reports belong on PCGen Main List. Exp is for sets being developed or issues in
      > developing said sets. This is clearly a character/existing set issue you're bringing up.
      >
      > Now, to answer your question - PCGen is following it's rules logic.
      >
      > Each character regardless of skill points or intelligence is granted 1 skill point, period.
      >
      > Yes, you get 2 Skill Points for being a Fighter, +1 For being a Human. That's 3 skill points.
      > However, your Intelligence is going to reduce that number by 2. Hence you are getting 1 Skill Point.
      >
      > Now, unless Pathfinder says that you can't drop below 2 because your Race is Human and the Class
      > should grant a minimum of 1, then the logic appears to be sound. It's a bummer, but that's logic for ya.
      >
      > No bug I can see.
      >
      > On 12/15/2010 10:21 AM, Allen Cohn wrote:
      > > Hi gang,
      > >
      > > Not sure if this is a bug or operator error...
      > >
      > > Using 5.16.4 Pathfinder Core + APG.
      > >
      > > I created a human fighter with low intelligence (7). My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that this character should get two skill points per level, but PCGen is only granting one.
      > >
      > > I suspect PCGen is doing the "minimum of one skill point even if low INT" *after* applying the human +1/level bonus rather than *before*.
      > >
      > > Thoughts?
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Allen
    • Chuck
      It appears the official ruling is that humans always get at least 2. Three if they take the favored class skill bonus. Here s the link:
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 18, 2010
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        It appears the "official" ruling is that humans always get at least 2. Three if they take the favored class skill bonus. Here's the link:
        http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderSociety/general/archives/pathfinderSocietyRules20Questions&page=10&source=search#497

        There is quite a number of threads about this on the Paizo forums. But they all point back to that ruling.

        Chuck

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Cohn" <allen@...> wrote:
        >
        > [I'm cross-posting this to the correct group. I would love some feedback about whether my understanding of the Pathfinder rule is correct.]
        >
        > Sorry 'bout that. I (mistakenly) thought that since the Pathfinder set was still in the Alpha section that this would be the correct area to post this question in. If you want, I will migrate my reply to the other group.
        >
        > P. 17 of the core book says, "The number of skill points gained each level, though your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level."
        >
        > P. 27 says "Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level."
        >
        > P. 86 says "Humans gain 1 additional skill rank per class level."
        >
        > These, plus my interpretation of 3.5 rules, made me think that the "at least one skill point per level" rule applies before the human +1 bonus is applied. (I just tested a similar case in 3.5 and that does appear to be the way PCGen is implementing the 3.5 game mode.)
        >
        > What does the PCGen brain trust think?
        >
        > Many thanks,
        > Allen
        >
        > --- In pcgen_experimental@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Just a note - Bugs reports belong on PCGen Main List. Exp is for sets being developed or issues in
        > > developing said sets. This is clearly a character/existing set issue you're bringing up.
        > >
        > > Now, to answer your question - PCGen is following it's rules logic.
        > >
        > > Each character regardless of skill points or intelligence is granted 1 skill point, period.
        > >
        > > Yes, you get 2 Skill Points for being a Fighter, +1 For being a Human. That's 3 skill points.
        > > However, your Intelligence is going to reduce that number by 2. Hence you are getting 1 Skill Point.
        > >
        > > Now, unless Pathfinder says that you can't drop below 2 because your Race is Human and the Class
        > > should grant a minimum of 1, then the logic appears to be sound. It's a bummer, but that's logic for ya.
        > >
        > > No bug I can see.
        > >
        > > On 12/15/2010 10:21 AM, Allen Cohn wrote:
        > > > Hi gang,
        > > >
        > > > Not sure if this is a bug or operator error...
        > > >
        > > > Using 5.16.4 Pathfinder Core + APG.
        > > >
        > > > I created a human fighter with low intelligence (7). My understanding (possibly incorrect) is that this character should get two skill points per level, but PCGen is only granting one.
        > > >
        > > > I suspect PCGen is doing the "minimum of one skill point even if low INT" *after* applying the human +1/level bonus rather than *before*.
        > > >
        > > > Thoughts?
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > > Allen
        >
      • Allen Cohn
        Thanks, Chuck, Yes, message 497 seems to clarify it. So this is, in fact, a PCGen bug. Thanks, Allen Re: [BUG] Low intelligence subtracts skill points below
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 19, 2010
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          Thanks, Chuck,

          Yes, message 497 seems to clarify it.

          So this is, in fact, a PCGen bug.

          Thanks,
          Allen


          Re: [BUG] Low intelligence subtracts skill points below minimum?
          Posted by: "Chuck" pcgen2006@... chuckpint
          Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:15 am (PST)


          It appears the "official" ruling is that humans always get at least 2. Three
          if they take the favored class skill bonus. Here's the link:
          http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderSo
          ciety/general/archives/pathfinderSocietyRules20Questions&page=10&source=sear
          ch#497

          There is quite a number of threads about this on the Paizo forums. But they
          all point back to that ruling.

          Chuck
        • Andrew Maitland
          Hi, Nope, not a Bug but working as designed, it s a FREQ to alter existing behavior. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 19, 2010
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            Hi,

            Nope, not a "Bug" but working as designed, it's a FREQ to alter existing behavior.


            On 12/19/2010 2:19 PM, Allen Cohn wrote:
            > Thanks, Chuck,
            >
            > Yes, message 497 seems to clarify it.
            >
            > So this is, in fact, a PCGen bug.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Allen
            >
            >
            > Re: [BUG] Low intelligence subtracts skill points below minimum?
            > Posted by: "Chuck" pcgen2006@... chuckpint
            > Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:15 am (PST)
            >
            >
            > It appears the "official" ruling is that humans always get at least 2. Three
            > if they take the favored class skill bonus. Here's the link:
            > http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderSo
            > ciety/general/archives/pathfinderSocietyRules20Questions&page=10&source=sear
            > ch#497
            >
            > There is quite a number of threads about this on the Paizo forums. But they
            > all point back to that ruling.
            >
            > Chuck
            >
            >
            >
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            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


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