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Re: [pcgen] Re: Indicating encumberance on the output sheets

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Hi, I think indicating pounds left would be confusing, just the current load, and current lbs would be great I think. Or at least 34 of xx might be better
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 4, 2010
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      Hi,

      I think indicating pounds left would be confusing, just the current load, and current lbs would be
      great I think. Or at least 34 of xx might be better understood.

      Just my thought.



      On 11/4/2010 3:11 PM, Chuck wrote:
      > I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
      > Encumbrance<load> <lbs left to put into next category>
      >
      > Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
      > the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
      >
      > Any more ideas?
      >
      > Chuck
      >
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...> wrote:
      >> Hi,
      >>
      >> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
      >> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
      >>
      >> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
      >> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
      >>
      >> Just an idea.
      >>
      >> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
      >> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
      >> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
      >>
      >>
      >> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
      >>> Hi,
      >>>
      >>> On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
      >>>> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
      >>>>
      >>>> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
      >>>>
      >>> Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
      >>> load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
      >>> penalty. "
      >>>
      >>> An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
      >>> summary page in the new UI.
      >>>
      >>> Cheers,
      >>> James.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ------------------------------------
      >>>
      >>> Related Lists
      >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
      >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
      >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      >>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
      >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
      >>>
      >>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
      >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      >>>
      >>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
      >>> (for new official data source development)
      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >> --
      >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      >> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Related Lists
      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
      > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
      > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
      > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
      >
      > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
      > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      >
      > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
      > (for new official data source development)
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Dempsey
      Hi, As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should really be used as a warning section. So I d prefer it be hidden when there was al ight
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 4, 2010
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        Hi,

        As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should
        really be used as a warning section. So I'd prefer it be hidden when
        there was al ight load and appear with the current info (load category
        and penalty or just a generic penalties apply message) when more than
        lightly loaded. That way it will stand out to people.

        Cheers,
        James Dempsey
        PCGen Code SB


        On 5 November 2010 09:11, Chuck <pcgen2006@...> wrote:
        > I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
        > Encumbrance <load> <lbs left to put into next category>
        >
        > Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
        > the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
        >
        > Any more ideas?
        >
        > Chuck
        >
        >
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Hi,
        >>
        >> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
        >> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
        >>
        >> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
        >> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
        >>
        >> Just an idea.
        >>
        >> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
        >> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
        >> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
        >>
        >>
        >> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
        >> > Hi,
        >> >
        >> > On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
        >> >> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
        >> >>
        >> >> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
        >> >>
        >> > Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
        >> > load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
        >> > penalty. "
        >> >
        >> > An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
        >> > summary page in the new UI.
        >> >
        >> > Cheers,
        >> > James.
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > ------------------------------------
        >> >
        >> > Related Lists
        >> > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        >> > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        >> > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        >> > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        >> > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        >> > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        >> >
        >> > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        >> > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >> >
        >> > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        >> > (for new official data source development)
        >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >>
        >> --
        >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        >> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
        >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Barak
        ... Amen to that! ... Now this I could get behind. Barak ~ Content SB
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 4, 2010
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > I think indicating pounds left would be confusing, just the current

          Amen to that!

          > Or at least 34 of xx might be better understood.

          Now this I could get behind.

          Barak
          ~ Content SB
        • Chuck
          Ok, I ve decided to go with it on the page just below BAB. It would only show if the encumbrance was not Light. Then it will simply show: ENCUMBRANCE
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 8, 2010
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            Ok, I've decided to go with it on the page just below BAB. It would only show if the encumbrance was not Light. Then it will simply show: ENCUMBRANCE <current load>

            I decided against showing the penalties, because there are too many different penalties caused by encumbrance. So basically this is just a warning and it's up to the player/DM to figure out how this penalizes the character.

            Note: only fixed in the main trunk, I got to this too late to put into 5.16.4.

            Chuck

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should
            > really be used as a warning section. So I'd prefer it be hidden when
            > there was al ight load and appear with the current info (load category
            > and penalty or just a generic penalties apply message) when more than
            > lightly loaded. That way it will stand out to people.
            >
            > Cheers,
            > James Dempsey
            > PCGen Code SB
            >
            >
            > On 5 November 2010 09:11, Chuck <pcgen2006@...> wrote:
            > > I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
            > > Encumbrance <load> <lbs left to put into next category>
            > >
            > > Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
            > > the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
            > >
            > > Any more ideas?
            > >
            > > Chuck
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
            > >>
            > >> Hi,
            > >>
            > >> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
            > >> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
            > >>
            > >> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
            > >> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
            > >>
            > >> Just an idea.
            > >>
            > >> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
            > >> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
            > >> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
            > >> > Hi,
            > >> >
            > >> > On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
            > >> >> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
            > >> >>
            > >> >> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
            > >> >>
            > >> > Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
            > >> > load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
            > >> > penalty. "
            > >> >
            > >> > An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
            > >> > summary page in the new UI.
            > >> >
            > >> > Cheers,
            > >> > James.
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >> > ------------------------------------
            > >> >
            > >> > Related Lists
            > >> > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > >> > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            > >> > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            > >> > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > >> > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            > >> > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
            > >> >
            > >> > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > >> > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            > >> >
            > >> > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > >> > (for new official data source development)
            > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >> >
            > >>
            > >> --
            > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            > >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            > >> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
            > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            > >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Related Lists
            > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
            > >
            > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            > >
            > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > > (for new official data source development)
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • dave_the_ferret
            Greetings, On a similar vein, Its something I often have to deal with - with players often commenting that their swim skill often appears highly negative
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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              Greetings,

              On a similar vein, Its something I often have to deal with - with players often commenting that their 'swim' skill often appears highly negative (along with 'move silent' etc) due to the load carried.

              If someone has an unplanned swim, then yes, the highly negative value is appropriate, however if they then sensibly immediately drop their backpack/shield/sword, or actually plan in advance and drop inappropriate equipment before getting wet, then their skill improves drastically.

              And normally we're not going to be wielding a shield when we try and pick someone's pocket...

              However - short of having various character sheets printed out with or without the various 'heavy' items, there's no easy way to know how much of that 'misc modifier' is appropriate.

              What if the 'misc modifier' column was displayed in 3 sections - showing what the modifier would be for light/medium/heavy load, and the current (in use) value was in bold, or underlined ?

              ie:
              mod stat rank misc
              swim STR -6 = -2 + 1 + x/-5/z

              So currently my gnome is at -6 due to medium load, and if he dropped to a light load the 'x' would apply instead of '-5', and if he was in heavy load then he'd use 'z'...

              ...just checked the character and the -5 is actually due to the armour rather than the load...perhaps there's just too many factors here to calculate and output nicely? Or actually is that evidence that this can work, the 'x' above would also be '-5' and he'd therefore know at a glance that even dropping his backpack wasn't going to stop him drowning...

              Its a thought though - a mechanism to indicate that the weight allowance factor *may* change a skill or ability...
              (It took me 10 minutes during a game to realise that another character could drop his backpack and then move an additional 10' a round)

              Not sure how to make this into a feature request though, needs more thought I think.

              For the addition below - adding the medium/heavy encumbrance value onto the main sheet - sounds good, thank you. How about an *option* to also display the penalties that causes ? Not on the first sheet...)
              And/Or, as above, some indication next to each skill/entry (i.e movement) that it *is* affected by the load?

              ie just something like "walk: 20'*" and "swim STR -7 = -2 + 1 + -6*"
              (where that -6 misc mod is -5 for armour, and a further -1 for additional weight carried, if it was just -5, then the modifier isnt related to load - it would be armour only - and therefore not star'd at that point).

              Cheers
              Dave



              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck" <pcgen2006@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ok, I've decided to go with it on the page just below BAB. It would only show if the encumbrance was not Light. Then it will simply show: ENCUMBRANCE <current load>
              >
              > I decided against showing the penalties, because there are too many different penalties caused by encumbrance. So basically this is just a warning and it's up to the player/DM to figure out how this penalizes the character.
              >
              > Note: only fixed in the main trunk, I got to this too late to put into 5.16.4.
              >
              > Chuck
              >
              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should
              > > really be used as a warning section. So I'd prefer it be hidden when
              > > there was al ight load and appear with the current info (load category
              > > and penalty or just a generic penalties apply message) when more than
              > > lightly loaded. That way it will stand out to people.
              > >
              > > Cheers,
              > > James Dempsey
              > > PCGen Code SB
              > >
              > >
              > > On 5 November 2010 09:11, Chuck <pcgen2006@> wrote:
              > > > I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
              > > > Encumbrance <load> <lbs left to put into next category>
              > > >
              > > > Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
              > > > the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
              > > >
              > > > Any more ideas?
              > > >
              > > > Chuck
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
              > > >>
              > > >> Hi,
              > > >>
              > > >> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
              > > >> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
              > > >>
              > > >> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
              > > >> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
              > > >>
              > > >> Just an idea.
              > > >>
              > > >> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
              > > >> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
              > > >> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
              > > >> > Hi,
              > > >> >
              > > >> > On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
              > > >> >> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
              > > >> >>
              > > >> >> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
              > > >> >>
              > > >> > Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
              > > >> > load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
              > > >> > penalty. "
              > > >> >
              > > >> > An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
              > > >> > summary page in the new UI.
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Cheers,
              > > >> > James.
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> > ------------------------------------
              > > >> >
              > > >> > Related Lists
              > > >> > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > > >> > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              > > >> > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              > > >> > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > > >> > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              > > >> > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              > > >> >
              > > >> > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > > >> > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              > > >> >
              > > >> > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > > >> > (for new official data source development)
              > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >> >
              > > >>
              > > >> --
              > > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              > > >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
              > > >> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
              > > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
              > > >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
              > > >>
              > > >>
              > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > Related Lists
              > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              > > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              > > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              > > >
              > > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              > > >
              > > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > > > (for new official data source development)
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Andrew Maitland
              Hi, I think adding another column Encum and then just putting any Weight penalties in that column would be easier and less cumbersome than splitting out wt
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                Hi,

                I think adding another column "Encum" and then just putting any Weight penalties in that column
                would be easier and less cumbersome than splitting out wt only mods in a misc mod along with the
                other misc mods.

                From what little I understand of the OS, it's logically easier than what you proposed. However,
                under the skills section where we have the notes, I don't see why we couldn't have the Penalties
                split out based upon load, it'd be a fairly static value. That'd be fairly easy as well.


                On 11/15/2010 10:15 AM, dave_the_ferret wrote:
                > Greetings,
                >
                > On a similar vein, Its something I often have to deal with - with players often commenting that their 'swim' skill often appears highly negative (along with 'move silent' etc) due to the load carried.
                >
                > If someone has an unplanned swim, then yes, the highly negative value is appropriate, however if they then sensibly immediately drop their backpack/shield/sword, or actually plan in advance and drop inappropriate equipment before getting wet, then their skill improves drastically.
                >
                > And normally we're not going to be wielding a shield when we try and pick someone's pocket...
                >
                > However - short of having various character sheets printed out with or without the various 'heavy' items, there's no easy way to know how much of that 'misc modifier' is appropriate.
                >
                > What if the 'misc modifier' column was displayed in 3 sections - showing what the modifier would be for light/medium/heavy load, and the current (in use) value was in bold, or underlined ?
                >
                > ie:
                > mod stat rank misc
                > swim STR -6 = -2 + 1 + x/-5/z
                >
                > So currently my gnome is at -6 due to medium load, and if he dropped to a light load the 'x' would apply instead of '-5', and if he was in heavy load then he'd use 'z'...
                >
                > ...just checked the character and the -5 is actually due to the armour rather than the load...perhaps there's just too many factors here to calculate and output nicely? Or actually is that evidence that this can work, the 'x' above would also be '-5' and he'd therefore know at a glance that even dropping his backpack wasn't going to stop him drowning...
                >
                > Its a thought though - a mechanism to indicate that the weight allowance factor *may* change a skill or ability...
                > (It took me 10 minutes during a game to realise that another character could drop his backpack and then move an additional 10' a round)
                >
                > Not sure how to make this into a feature request though, needs more thought I think.
                >
                > For the addition below - adding the medium/heavy encumbrance value onto the main sheet - sounds good, thank you. How about an *option* to also display the penalties that causes ? Not on the first sheet...)
                > And/Or, as above, some indication next to each skill/entry (i.e movement) that it *is* affected by the load?
                >
                > ie just something like "walk: 20'*" and "swim STR -7 = -2 + 1 + -6*"
                > (where that -6 misc mod is -5 for armour, and a further -1 for additional weight carried, if it was just -5, then the modifier isnt related to load - it would be armour only - and therefore not star'd at that point).
                >
                > Cheers
                > Dave
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck"<pcgen2006@...> wrote:
                >> Ok, I've decided to go with it on the page just below BAB. It would only show if the encumbrance was not Light. Then it will simply show: ENCUMBRANCE<current load>
                >>
                >> I decided against showing the penalties, because there are too many different penalties caused by encumbrance. So basically this is just a warning and it's up to the player/DM to figure out how this penalizes the character.
                >>
                >> Note: only fixed in the main trunk, I got to this too late to put into 5.16.4.
                >>
                >> Chuck
                >>
                >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey<jdempsey@> wrote:
                >>> Hi,
                >>>
                >>> As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should
                >>> really be used as a warning section. So I'd prefer it be hidden when
                >>> there was al ight load and appear with the current info (load category
                >>> and penalty or just a generic penalties apply message) when more than
                >>> lightly loaded. That way it will stand out to people.
                >>>
                >>> Cheers,
                >>> James Dempsey
                >>> PCGen Code SB
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> On 5 November 2010 09:11, Chuck<pcgen2006@> wrote:
                >>>> I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
                >>>> Encumbrance<load> <lbs left to put into next category>
                >>>>
                >>>> Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
                >>>> the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
                >>>>
                >>>> Any more ideas?
                >>>>
                >>>> Chuck
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland<drew0500@> wrote:
                >>>>> Hi,
                >>>>>
                >>>>> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
                >>>>> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
                >>>>> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
                >>>>>
                >>>>> Just an idea.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
                >>>>> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
                >>>>> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
                >>>>>> Hi,
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
                >>>>>>> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>> Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
                >>>>>> load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
                >>>>>> penalty. "
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
                >>>>>> summary page in the new UI.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> Cheers,
                >>>>>> James.
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> ------------------------------------
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> Related Lists
                >>>>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                >>>>>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                >>>>>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                >>>>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                >>>>>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                >>>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                >>>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                >>>>>> (for new official data source development)
                >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>> --
                >>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                >>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                >>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                >>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                >>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>> ------------------------------------
                >>>>
                >>>> Related Lists
                >>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                >>>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                >>>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                >>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                >>>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                >>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                >>>>
                >>>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                >>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >>>>
                >>>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                >>>> (for new official data source development)
                >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Related Lists
                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                >
                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                >
                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > (for new official data source development)
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • dave_the_ferret
                ... That s far clearer! Makes more sense too, as I said - it needed more thought, thank you. FWIW - that armor misc mod comment is a misnomer, I added a set
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 15, 2010
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                • 0 Attachment
                  >adding another column...
                  That's far clearer! Makes more sense too, as I said - it needed more thought, thank you.

                  FWIW - that 'armor' misc mod comment is a misnomer, I added a set of heavy items and the character now has a larger 'armor' penalty than before, so actual 'armour' and 'weight encumbrance' appear to be combined currently.

                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I think adding another column "Encum" and then just putting any Weight penalties in that column
                  > would be easier and less cumbersome than splitting out wt only mods in a misc mod along with the
                  > other misc mods.
                  >
                  > From what little I understand of the OS, it's logically easier than what you proposed. However,
                  > under the skills section where we have the notes, I don't see why we couldn't have the Penalties
                  > split out based upon load, it'd be a fairly static value. That'd be fairly easy as well.
                  >
                  >
                  > On 11/15/2010 10:15 AM, dave_the_ferret wrote:
                  > > Greetings,
                  > >
                  > > On a similar vein, Its something I often have to deal with - with players often commenting that their 'swim' skill often appears highly negative (along with 'move silent' etc) due to the load carried.
                  > >
                  > > If someone has an unplanned swim, then yes, the highly negative value is appropriate, however if they then sensibly immediately drop their backpack/shield/sword, or actually plan in advance and drop inappropriate equipment before getting wet, then their skill improves drastically.
                  > >
                  > > And normally we're not going to be wielding a shield when we try and pick someone's pocket...
                  > >
                  > > However - short of having various character sheets printed out with or without the various 'heavy' items, there's no easy way to know how much of that 'misc modifier' is appropriate.
                  > >
                  > > What if the 'misc modifier' column was displayed in 3 sections - showing what the modifier would be for light/medium/heavy load, and the current (in use) value was in bold, or underlined ?
                  > >
                  > > ie:
                  > > mod stat rank misc
                  > > swim STR -6 = -2 + 1 + x/-5/z
                  > >
                  > > So currently my gnome is at -6 due to medium load, and if he dropped to a light load the 'x' would apply instead of '-5', and if he was in heavy load then he'd use 'z'...
                  > >
                  > > ...just checked the character and the -5 is actually due to the armour rather than the load...perhaps there's just too many factors here to calculate and output nicely? Or actually is that evidence that this can work, the 'x' above would also be '-5' and he'd therefore know at a glance that even dropping his backpack wasn't going to stop him drowning...
                  > >
                  > > Its a thought though - a mechanism to indicate that the weight allowance factor *may* change a skill or ability...
                  > > (It took me 10 minutes during a game to realise that another character could drop his backpack and then move an additional 10' a round)
                  > >
                  > > Not sure how to make this into a feature request though, needs more thought I think.
                  > >
                  > > For the addition below - adding the medium/heavy encumbrance value onto the main sheet - sounds good, thank you. How about an *option* to also display the penalties that causes ? Not on the first sheet...)
                  > > And/Or, as above, some indication next to each skill/entry (i.e movement) that it *is* affected by the load?
                  > >
                  > > ie just something like "walk: 20'*" and "swim STR -7 = -2 + 1 + -6*"
                  > > (where that -6 misc mod is -5 for armour, and a further -1 for additional weight carried, if it was just -5, then the modifier isnt related to load - it would be armour only - and therefore not star'd at that point).
                  > >
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck"<pcgen2006@> wrote:
                  > >> Ok, I've decided to go with it on the page just below BAB. It would only show if the encumbrance was not Light. Then it will simply show: ENCUMBRANCE<current load>
                  > >>
                  > >> I decided against showing the penalties, because there are too many different penalties caused by encumbrance. So basically this is just a warning and it's up to the player/DM to figure out how this penalizes the character.
                  > >>
                  > >> Note: only fixed in the main trunk, I got to this too late to put into 5.16.4.
                  > >>
                  > >> Chuck
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey<jdempsey@> wrote:
                  > >>> Hi,
                  > >>>
                  > >>> As we have the actual info on the second page, I think this should
                  > >>> really be used as a warning section. So I'd prefer it be hidden when
                  > >>> there was al ight load and appear with the current info (load category
                  > >>> and penalty or just a generic penalties apply message) when more than
                  > >>> lightly loaded. That way it will stand out to people.
                  > >>>
                  > >>> Cheers,
                  > >>> James Dempsey
                  > >>> PCGen Code SB
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> On 5 November 2010 09:11, Chuck<pcgen2006@> wrote:
                  > >>>> I like the idea of using the spot near Base Attack. I'm thinking it should be:
                  > >>>> Encumbrance<load> <lbs left to put into next category>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Load would be: Light, Medium, Heavy, etc.
                  > >>>> the third item would be the number of lbs that you have until you go into the next higher category. So if you are currently at Light, but 2 more lbs would put your into Medium, then it would read "2 lbs".
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Any more ideas?
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Chuck
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland<drew0500@> wrote:
                  > >>>>> Hi,
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> This is one of those we need so we avoid the "Hey x is wrong on my sheet" and then after
                  > >>>>> investigating it turns out the PC was encumbered.
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> I'd love something on the front page. Looking at the current PDF; the spot that won't get much
                  > >>>>> affect would be right under BASE ATTACK. We have a space there for |Encumbrance| |Light, xlbs|
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> Just an idea.
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> I'd agree with James, but Skills can and does spill onto the Second page, which would defeat the
                  > >>>>> purpose of it being on the front page. Another location would be above the Skills, as Encumbrance
                  > >>>>> DOES affect AC, Skills, Attack, etc.
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> On 11/4/2010 2:00 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
                  > >>>>>> Hi,
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> On 5/11/2010 7:51 AM Chuck wrote
                  > >>>>>>> There is a freq that is asking for an indicator that the character is encumbered to the point of affecting various stats. Not the least of which is armor class, but also skills. Currently that information is on the OS, but it's buried on page 2. I'd like to put something on page 1. Currently this would be for the PDF OS, but could be placed on any other OS if desired.
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> So please give me some ideas. I'd like to get this one done.
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Maybe a line under the skills block that appears if the character has a
                  > >>>>>> load level other than light which says in bold "NB: Heavy load, -6 skill
                  > >>>>>> penalty. "
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> An aside, but we are putting the load level and skills penalty on the
                  > >>>>>> summary page in the new UI.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Cheers,
                  > >>>>>> James.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> ------------------------------------
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Related Lists
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > >>>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > >>>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > >>>>>> (for new official data source development)
                  > >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>> --
                  > >>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  > >>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  > >>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  > >>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  > >>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> ------------------------------------
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Related Lists
                  > >>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > >>>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > >>>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > >>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > >>>> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > >>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > >>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > >>>> (for new official data source development)
                  > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > Related Lists
                  > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > >
                  > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > >
                  > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > > (for new official data source development)
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  > Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
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