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Re: [pcgen] Re: [pathfinder] weapon focus (natural weapons)

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Hi, Well partially correct Matt. Adding the template *would* fix the problem. However, it s not Weapon Focus Natural Weapon or even Unarmed Strike it would
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 5, 2010
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      Hi,

      Well partially correct Matt. Adding the template *would* fix the problem. However, it's not Weapon
      Focus 'Natural Weapon' or even 'Unarmed Strike' it would be Weapon Focus (Claw) or Weapon Focus
      (Bite). Since each attack is counted separately, unless Pathfinder changed that rule.

      Unless the player is going to pursue the Weapon Focus / Weapon Specialization Feat Chain, you can
      always simply put 'BONUS:WEAPONPROF=TYPE.Natural|TOHIT|1' and that would cover all the natural
      attacks IIRC.


      On 8/5/2010 5:55 AM, Matthew Thompson wrote:
      > I think what he means is, the way to fix it is to add a template in that allows
      > you to put a claw or bite attack on any character. Then, when you create a
      > druid, you add the template(s) to the druid character. This enables him to take
      > Weapon Focus(Natural Weapon), as well as Improved Natural Attack(attack) as
      > feats. They'd only apply when he's wildshaped, but they'd show up on his
      > character sheet.
      >
      > You'd need a template for Small Claw, Medium Claw, and Large Claw, to accomodate
      > all levels, as well as Small Bite, Medium Bite, Large Bite. But it's doable.
      > Just looks messy on the character sheet.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Saxum Caribetum<saxum.caribetum@...>
      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 8:36:25 AM
      > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [pathfinder] weapon focus (natural weapons)
      >
      >
      > On 05/08/2010 12:48, Paul wrote:
      >> I believe that the problem is that the druid doesn't have a natural weapon
      >> "naturally", if they had a template granting them a natural weapon then there
      >> should be a Weapon Focus(Natural Weapon) as an option AFAIK.
      > is there a restriction (other than programming) which says they have to
      > have the weapon "naturally" ? Doesn't Wild Shape count (per rules, not
      > PCGen)?
      >
      >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Saxum Caribetum<saxum.caribetum@...> wrote:
      >>> We have a Druid who would like to boost her Wild Shape combat prowess
      >>> with Weapon Focus
      >>>
      >>> We have 2 problems
      >>>
      >>> 1) an ambiguity as to whether"Weapon Focus (unarmed combat)" also covers
      >>> combat with natural weapons - either Wild Shape, or a Abyssal or
      >>> Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer's claws, or similar...
      >>> PCGen does not appear to equate them...
      >>>
      >>> * in support of equivalence, I offer "Magic Fang" spell, which
      >>> specifically covers both...
      >>> * against equivalence, a monk with natural weapons cannot use them in a
      >>> flurry of blows.
      >>> * in support of equivalence, a monk's unarmed strike is treated as both
      >>> a manufactured and natural weapon for spells/effects
      >>>
      >>> 2) if it does not overlap, PCGen has a problem in not allowing selection
      >>> of "Weapon Focus (natural weapons)" for humanoid types who gain natural
      >>> weapons by transformation, rather than always having them.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> either way, I'm happy as GM, but I want to help the player get Weapon
      >>> Focus on beastie claws... she has no actual desire for have a focus in
      >>> unarmed strike - she prefers real weapons in human form!
      >>>
      >>> Any comments on how to resolve or address this in PCGen?
      >>>
      >>> --
      >>> Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
      >>> ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+)
      >>> Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
      >>> Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
      >>> Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
      >>>
      >>
      >>
      >> ------------------------------------
      >>
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      >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
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      >>
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      >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      >>
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      >> (for new official data source development)
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>

      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matthew Thompson
      Sorry, I meant, when I said, Weapon Focus (Natural Weapon), whichever natural weapon he had/chose. Not all natural weapons. So if he had both claw and bite,
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 5, 2010
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        Sorry,
        I meant, when I said, Weapon Focus (Natural Weapon), whichever natural weapon
        he had/chose. Not all natural weapons. So if he had both claw and bite, then
        weapon focus (claw) or (bite). Just as he'd have to choose improved natural
        weapon (bite) or (claw). I just did a better job of explaining that than I did
        the weapon focus comment. :)

        A druid with wildshape should have the option of taking the feats Weapon Focus
        (<natural attack type>) and Improved Natural Weapon (<natural attack type>) and
        only having them apply when wildshaped (unless of course he's playing a race
        like Catfolk who has claws naturally, then he should be able to take Weapon
        Focus (Claws) and Improved Natural Attack (Claws) and have both apply when he's
        wildshaped or unwildshaped).




        ________________________________
        From: Ainvar G <ainvarg@...>
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 11:29:10 AM
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [pathfinder] weapon focus (natural weapons)


        We always ruled that Weapon Focus was available for my druid, but only for a
        single weapon. That is, he could have Weapon Focus (claw), but it would not
        affect his bite attack. If he wanted Weapon Focus for both, he needed both
        feats. That's the way it's implemented for the animals, so it seemed natural to

        do the same for the character.

        As for unarmed strike vs natural weapons, I think all of the evidence indicates
        they are not interchangeable -- otherwise, the many examples where they specify
        both as distinct choices would not need to do so. It's been a while, but I
        believe there was FAQ to that effect for the 3.5 rules, but do not know if
        Pathfinder rules have specifically said as much. Unless Pathfinder specifically

        disagrees, we've been following the 3.5 FAQ at our table.

        My $0.02 and another $0.02 for good measure

        ________________________________
        From: Matthew Thompson <mattdt0@...>
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 7:55:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [pathfinder] weapon focus (natural weapons)

        I think what he means is, the way to fix it is to add a template in that allows
        you to put a claw or bite attack on any character. Then, when you create a
        druid, you add the template(s) to the druid character. This enables him to take


        Weapon Focus(Natural Weapon), as well as Improved Natural Attack(attack) as
        feats. They'd only apply when he's wildshaped, but they'd show up on his
        character sheet.

        You'd need a template for Small Claw, Medium Claw, and Large Claw, to accomodate


        all levels, as well as Small Bite, Medium Bite, Large Bite. But it's doable.
        Just looks messy on the character sheet.

        ________________________________
        From: Saxum Caribetum <saxum.caribetum@...>
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, August 5, 2010 8:36:25 AM
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [pathfinder] weapon focus (natural weapons)

        On 05/08/2010 12:48, Paul wrote:
        > I believe that the problem is that the druid doesn't have a natural weapon
        >"naturally", if they had a template granting them a natural weapon then there
        >should be a Weapon Focus(Natural Weapon) as an option AFAIK.

        is there a restriction (other than programming) which says they have to
        have the weapon "naturally" ? Doesn't Wild Shape count (per rules, not
        PCGen)?

        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Saxum Caribetum<saxum.caribetum@...> wrote:
        >> We have a Druid who would like to boost her Wild Shape combat prowess
        >> with Weapon Focus
        >>
        >> We have 2 problems
        >>
        >> 1) an ambiguity as to whether"Weapon Focus (unarmed combat)" also covers
        >> combat with natural weapons - either Wild Shape, or a Abyssal or
        >> Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer's claws, or similar...
        >> PCGen does not appear to equate them...
        >>
        >> * in support of equivalence, I offer "Magic Fang" spell, which
        >> specifically covers both...
        >> * against equivalence, a monk with natural weapons cannot use them in a
        >> flurry of blows.
        >> * in support of equivalence, a monk's unarmed strike is treated as both
        >> a manufactured and natural weapon for spells/effects
        >>
        >> 2) if it does not overlap, PCGen has a problem in not allowing selection
        >> of "Weapon Focus (natural weapons)" for humanoid types who gain natural
        >> weapons by transformation, rather than always having them.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> either way, I'm happy as GM, but I want to help the player get Weapon
        >> Focus on beastie claws... she has no actual desire for have a focus in
        >> unarmed strike - she prefers real weapons in human form!
        >>
        >> Any comments on how to resolve or address this in PCGen?
        >>
        >> --
        >> Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
        >> ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+)
        >
        >
        >>Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
        >> Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
        >> Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
        >http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
        ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+)
        Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
        Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
        Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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