Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Question about Attack Bonus calculation

Expand Messages
  • Paul
    Per the WotC FAQ listed here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv06302008.zip FAQ says thusly upon pg 52 If you don t have the Tower Shield Proficiency
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 2 4:19 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Per the WotC FAQ listed here
      http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv06302008.zip

      FAQ says thusly upon pg 52
      If you don't have the Tower Shield Proficiency feat, you
      suffer the shield armor check penalty (–10) on all your
      attack rolls. The tower shield description, however, says
      anyone using the shield as a normal shield has a –2 penalty
      on attack rolls. If you're not proficient with the shield, do
      you get the –10 penalty instead of the –2?

      Penalties in the D&D game stack. Whenever you use a
      tower shield, you suffer a –2 on attack rolls. If you aren't proficient with the shield, you suffer the armor check penalty (–
      10) as well, for a total penalty of –12.

      Which makes sense to me because then there is essentially no penalty for using a tower shield, and having a separate feat just for using it would make absolutely no sense.


      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "sinvaryen" <pete.pappas@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for all the help on this, I really appreciate it. By the way, PCGen is the most helpful, stable and complete DM tool I've found. Keep up the amazing work!
      >
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G <ainvarg@> wrote:
      > >
      > > The troubleshooting sheet (or any sheet, for that matter) can only display
      > > values that it is programed to include. I'm guessing the shield penalty for a
      > > tower shield is sufficiently rare that it didn't come up as necessary to include
      > > in that sheet. I've noticed some other things like it -- but it's a great way
      > > to find the common 'gotchas' when the numbers are off.
      > >
      > > My reading of the tower shield matches my understanding of Andrew's comments
      > > yesterday -- using a tower shield while proficient reduces the penalty to -2 --
      > > it's just that unwieldy. Using a tower shield while non-proficient has a much
      > > worse penalty -- either -10 or -12, depending on how you read the rules.
      > >
      > > Ironically, Andrew thinks that the penalty is being calculated incorrectly for
      > > the tower shield -- in at least some instances, it is not calculating the
      > > penalty high enough. In your case, it does appear to be correct, however.
      > >
      > > It might be a question to take to the forums to see if there is a FAQ or errata
      > > to clarify. There's always the possibility we are interpreting it incorrectly.
      > >
      > > AinvarG
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________
      > > From: sinvaryen <pete.pappas@>
      > > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 9:42:19 AM
      > > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Question about Attack Bonus calculation
      > >
      > >
      > > I don't recall seeing any penalties associated with using a shield without the
      > > associated proficiency. I guess that's the question. What does "suffer only the
      > > standard penalties" refer to?
      > >
      > > Also, if you look at the attack options I copied from the troubleshooting
      > > character sheet you'll see the penalty given by the tower shield doesn't even
      > > show up. Attacks with and without the shield equipped are different yet the
      > > individual components that are added up to get those values are different.
      > >
      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G <ainvarg@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I think "suffer only the standard penalties" is referring to the -2 penalty to
      > >
      > > > attack rolls, as opposed to the additional penalties you get from any armor or
      > >
      > > > shield that you are using while non-proficient. I'd have to compare it to the
      > >
      > > > proficiency rules for other shields -- do they make reference to standard
      > > > penalties, also?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: sinvaryen <pete.pappas@>
      > > > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Sun, August 1, 2010 1:29:36 PM
      > > > Subject: [pcgen] Re: Question about Attack Bonus calculation
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Sorry for beating this dead horse repeatedly but I'm still a bit confused on
      > > > this.
      > > >
      > > > To start, I'm using PCGen 5.16.2 and the RSRD. As a fighter I have Tower
      > > >Shield
      > > >
      > > > Proficiency. The SRD says the following about tower shields:
      > > >
      > > > "When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a -2 penalty on attack rolls
      > > >
      > > > because of the shield’s encumbrance."
      > > >
      > > > And the following about Tower Shield Proficiency:
      > > >
      > > > "You can use a tower shield and suffer only the standard penalties."
      > > >
      > > > I take this to mean only the armor check penalty, arcane spell failure % and
      > > >max
      > > >
      > > > dex bonus penalties would apply here and the -2 to attack rolls would not.
      > > > However, I've kitted out my character as follows:
      > > >
      > > > +1 Flaming burst bastard sword
      > > > Belt of Giant Strength +4
      > > > +2 Tower Shield
      > > >
      > > > The troubleshooting character sheet displays the following:
      > > >
      > > > Attacks Sword +1 (Bastard/Flaming Burst) Melee; Number of Attacks: 3; Crit:
      > > > 19-20; Crit Multiplier: x2; Reach: 5 ft. To Hit: +17 = +11[BAB] +5[STAT]
      > > > +0[SIZE] +1[MAGIC] +2[MISC] Damage: 1d10+8
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > As soon as I un-equip the tower shield I get the following:
      > > >
      > > > Attacks Sword +1 (Bastard/Flaming Burst) Melee; Number of Attacks: 3; Crit:
      > > > 19-20; Crit Multiplier: x2; Reach: 5 ft. To Hit: +19 = +11[BAB] +5[STAT]
      > > > +0[SIZE] +1[MAGIC] +2[MISC] Damage: 1d10+8
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Either my interpretation of Tower Shield Proficiency is off or PCGen does not
      > > > take Tower Shield Proficiency into account when calculating attacks.
      > > >
      > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "sinvaryen" <pete.pappas@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Sorry, I'm an idiot. Forgot about the tower shield! *smacks head*
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" <Papa.DRB@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Complete PCGen level (5.16.x, 5.16.3rcx, 5.17.x)?
      > > > > > Gamemode (SRD, RSRD, PFRPG)?
      > > > > > Operating system?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > David
      > > > > > Papa.DRB
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Grognard (definition 1)
      > > > > > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
      > > > > > My better half and me
      > > > > > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
      > > > > > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > On 7/25/2010 1:47 AM, sinvaryen wrote:
      > > > > > > I'm playing around with PCGen and I'm not understanding how it's
      > > > >calculating my weapon bonus. Here's the relevant information about my
      > > >character:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Lvl 11 Fighter
      > > > > > > Base Attack Bonus 11/6/1
      > > > > > > 17Str
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Feats:
      > > > > > > Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
      > > > > > > Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
      > > > > > > Greater Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Equipment:
      > > > > > > +1 Flaming Burst Bastard Sword (wielded with one hand)
      > > > > > > Belt of Giant Strength +4
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > With this information I calculate the following:
      > > > > > > 11 (base attack bonus)
      > > > > > > +5 (Str score of 21 with the belt)
      > > > > > > +1 (Enhancement bonus on sword)
      > > > > > > +1 (Weapon Focus)
      > > > > > > +1 (Greater Weapon Focus)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > This should give a bonus of 19/14/9 for my attacks. PCGen calculates this
      > > >
      > > > >as 17/12/7 though. Is my math incorrect somewhere (it's not) or am I
      > > >completely
      > > >
      > > > >screwing up the rules?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ------------------------------------
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Related Lists
      > > > > > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > > > > > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
      > > > > > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
      > > > > > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      > > > > > > PCGen's Online Docs:
      > > > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
      > > > > > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
      > > > >http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > PCGen List File Help:
      > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
      > > > > > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > PCGen Experimental:
      > > >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
      > > > > > > (for new official data source development)
      > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.