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[BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

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  • Matthew
    Ok, I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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      Ok,
      I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).

      However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.

      Equipment :
      a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
      b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
      c) Ring of Springing and Striding & +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
      d) Ring of Regeneration

      Feats :
      1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
      2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)

      Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).

      Issues I found :

      1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
      2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.

      Now, how I made the equipment was :

      Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
    • David R. Bender
      Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other? SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other? Operating System? David Papa.DRB Grognard (definition 1)
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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        Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
        SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
        Operating System?

        David
        Papa.DRB

        Grognard (definition 1)
        <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
        My better half and me
        <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
        Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

        On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
        > Ok,
        > I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
        >
        > However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
        >
        > Equipment :
        > a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
        > b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
        > c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
        > d) Ring of Regeneration
        >
        > Feats :
        > 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
        > 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
        >
        > Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).
        >
        > Issues I found :
        >
        > 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
        > 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
        >
        > Now, how I made the equipment was :
        >
        > Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
      • Matthew
        I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn t seem to have made it onto the boards. :( PCGen5163RC1 PathFinder (PFRPG) Windows.
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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          I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(

          PCGen5163RC1
          PathFinder (PFRPG)
          Windows.

          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" <Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
          >
          > Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
          > SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
          > Operating System?
          >
          > David
          > Papa.DRB
          >
          > Grognard (definition 1)
          > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
          > My better half and me
          > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
          > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
          >
          > On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
          > > Ok,
          > > I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
          > >
          > > However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
          > >
          > > Equipment :
          > > a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
          > > b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
          > > c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
          > > d) Ring of Regeneration
          > >
          > > Feats :
          > > 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
          > > 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
          > >
          > > Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).
          > >
          > > Issues I found :
          > >
          > > 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
          > > 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
          > >
          > > Now, how I made the equipment was :
          > >
          > > Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
          >
        • Andrew Maitland
          Hi, Yahoo may have eaten it. I don t see any mod notices. Okay, so here s the thing - Amulets, Rings, etc - Size won t matter since that s tied to Wielding
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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            Hi,

            Yahoo may have eaten it. I don't see any mod notices.

            Okay, so here's the thing -

            Amulets, Rings, etc - Size won't matter since that's tied to Wielding mainly, they were not coded to
            be resized, a minor oversight, but won't change anything on the character.

            Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite for you, but I recall that the
            cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)

            Weapon - Size does matter, it's tied to Damage, and if the character can use it without penalty or
            even at all.

            Feat, Dodge - Doesn't matter, that a circumstantial bonus last I checked, it applies only to a
            single attacker that you designate. Unless the rules have changed you shouldn't be seeing that on
            the Character Sheet.


            Medium Character would have gotten 10 + (+6 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 0 (2 for your comparison) Size + 6 Natural Armor + (1 Dodge circumstantial, should be 0) = 32 AC. REAL AC should have been 29 if Medium.

            Tiny Character : 10 + (+6 /2=3 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) +3 Natural Armor Enhancement + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC. REAL AC should be 26.

            It appears the natural Armor may not have been added to your "Example", but that may because you
            gave it another TYPE.



            On 7/24/2010 10:57 AM, Matthew wrote:
            > I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(
            >
            > PCGen5163RC1
            > PathFinder (PFRPG)
            > Windows.
            >
            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
            >> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
            >> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
            >> Operating System?
            >>
            >> David
            >> Papa.DRB
            >>
            >> Grognard (definition 1)
            >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
            >> My better half and me
            >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
            >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
            >>
            >> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
            >>> Ok,
            >>> I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
            >>>
            >>> However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
            >>>
            >>> Equipment :
            >>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
            >>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
            >>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
            >>> d) Ring of Regeneration
            >>>
            >>> Feats :
            >>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
            >>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
            >>>
            >>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).
            >>>
            >>> Issues I found :
            >>>
            >>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
            >>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
            >>>
            >>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
            >>>
            >>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
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            --
            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
            Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Saxum Caribetum
            ... It s another of those 3.x PFRPG changes 3.0, 3.5 - designate one attacker, receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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              On 24/07/2010 20:00, Andrew Maitland wrote:
              > Feat, Dodge - Doesn't matter, that a circumstantial bonus last I checked, it applies only to a
              > single attacker that you designate. Unless the rules have changed you shouldn't be seeing that on
              > the Character Sheet.

              It's another of those 3.x<>PFRPG changes

              3.0, 3.5 - designate one attacker, "receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor
              Class against attacks from that opponent"

              Pathfinder - "gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC"

              -- note Dodge bonus, not Circumstantial. Has all the properties of
              Dodge factors and Dex bonus to AC, and is lost in same way.


              >
              > Medium Character would have gotten 10 + (+6 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 0 (2 for your comparison) Size + 6 Natural Armor + (1 Dodge circumstantial, should be 0) = 32 AC. REAL AC should have been 29 if Medium.

              Matthew says PFRPG, so, yes, Dodge feats applies to all foes, and should
              be added. (Is, I believe, normally)

              >
              > On 7/24/2010 10:57 AM, Matthew wrote:
              >> I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(
              >>
              >> PCGen5163RC1
              >> PathFinder (PFRPG)
              >> Windows.

              --
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            • Andrew Maitland
              Hi, Yes, Dodge Bonus is a Bonus Type, I was merely inferring that in one setting (3.x) it s a circumstantially *applied* bonus. If PF has changed it to
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 24, 2010
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                Hi,

                Yes, Dodge Bonus is a Bonus Type, I was merely inferring that in one setting (3.x) it's a
                circumstantially *applied* bonus. If PF has changed it to 'always' (which is how it should have been
                since that feat was made IMHO) , then I'm sure the lst monkeys coded it up that way.

                What does matter is if the AC is coming out correctly, which it's hard to determine based upon the
                example given.

                We have a couple of variables - an item that grants a +3 Natural Armor Bonus (Which the OP has
                created, but hasn't said if this was in the item creator, or by hand - potential for error there)
                and then is the AC display and final numbers actually what they should say.

                There was a lot of excess items in that equation that didn't relate to the AC issue. And the items
                really didn't need to be spelled out for the Size issue. IIRC - Most misc. magic items have a bit of
                a resize property to them which means you don't really need to specify size.


                On 7/24/2010 2:15 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                > On 24/07/2010 20:00, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                >> Feat, Dodge - Doesn't matter, that a circumstantial bonus last I checked, it applies only to a
                >> single attacker that you designate. Unless the rules have changed you shouldn't be seeing that on
                >> the Character Sheet.
                > It's another of those 3.x<>PFRPG changes
                >
                > 3.0, 3.5 - designate one attacker, "receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor
                > Class against attacks from that opponent"
                >
                > Pathfinder - "gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC"
                >
                > -- note Dodge bonus, not Circumstantial. Has all the properties of
                > Dodge factors and Dex bonus to AC, and is lost in same way.
                >
                >
                >> Medium Character would have gotten 10 + (+6 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 0 (2 for your comparison) Size + 6 Natural Armor + (1 Dodge circumstantial, should be 0) = 32 AC. REAL AC should have been 29 if Medium.
                > Matthew says PFRPG, so, yes, Dodge feats applies to all foes, and should
                > be added. (Is, I believe, normally)
                >
                >> On 7/24/2010 10:57 AM, Matthew wrote:
                >>> I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(
                >>>
                >>> PCGen5163RC1
                >>> PathFinder (PFRPG)
                >>> Windows.

                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Eric C Smith
                Hi Folks! ... When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this? Maredudd
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                  Hi Folks!

                  Andrew wrote:
                  > Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite
                  > for you, but I recall that the
                  > cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base
                  > Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                  >

                  When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?


                  Maredudd
                • Andrew Maitland
                  Won t have access to my books till 10 hours from now - http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                    Won't have access to my books till 10 hours from now -

                    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures

                    But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone that wants to look through our
                    actual r/srd sources will find it in that section.

                    I remembered the rule from when I had a player with a Tiny character.

                    And then we have the Pathfinder Wiki

                    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html

                    Scroll down bout half or so:


                    You'll see the chart
                    Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                    Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                    Tiny or smaller* | etc....

                    *Divide armor bonus by 2.
                     
                    Anyways, it exists. Exact pages, well that will have to wait till I have time to
                    look it up.--
                    Andrew




                    ________________________________
                    From: Eric C Smith <maredudd@...>
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:36:37 AM
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

                    Hi Folks!

                    Andrew wrote:
                    > Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite 
                    > for you, but I recall that the
                    > cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base 
                    > Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                    >

                    When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?


                    Maredudd


                    ------------------------------------

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                  • Ainvar G
                    Player s Handbook, 3.5e p.123, chart is found in the lower left corner. I recognized everything mentioned previously except the parenthetical note that the
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                      Player's Handbook, 3.5e

                      p.123, chart is found in the lower left corner. I recognized everything
                      mentioned previously except the parenthetical note that the armor bonus needed
                      to be divided by 2. You learn something new every day.

                      For sake of completeness, same chart (at least glancing at them both) with the
                      same adjustment for tiny or smaller armor is found in Pathfinder Core rulebook,
                      p. 153, right column.

                      AinvarG




                      ________________________________
                      From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 7:55:54 AM
                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?


                      Won't have access to my books till 10 hours from now -

                      http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures

                      But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone that wants to look through our
                      actual r/srd sources will find it in that section.

                      I remembered the rule from when I had a player with a Tiny character.

                      And then we have the Pathfinder Wiki

                      http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html

                      Scroll down bout half or so:

                      You'll see the chart
                      Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                      Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                      Tiny or smaller* | etc....

                      *Divide armor bonus by 2.

                      Anyways, it exists. Exact pages, well that will have to wait till I have time to

                      look it up.--
                      Andrew

                      ________________________________
                      From: Eric C Smith <maredudd@...>
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:36:37 AM
                      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

                      Hi Folks!

                      Andrew wrote:
                      > Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite
                      > for you, but I recall that the
                      > cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base
                      > Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                      >

                      When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?

                      Maredudd

                      ------------------------------------

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                      PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                      PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Matthew
                      Alright, That explains the Armor being 6. However, the rest of the Natural Armor being off isn t explained. As to how I created the objects, I did it through
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                        Alright,
                        That explains the Armor being 6.

                        However, the rest of the Natural Armor being off isn't explained.

                        As to how I created the objects, I did it through the GUI using 'Create Custom Object'. I did not hand code any objects in the original.

                        So, let's see what we should have :

                        Pseudodragon Natural Armor (+2)
                        Pseudodragon Size AC Bonus (+2)
                        Armor (+6)
                        Dodge (+1)
                        Improved Natural Armor Feat (+1, Untyped bonus to Natural Armor)
                        Amulet (+3 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor)
                        Ring (+3 Deflection bonus to AC)
                        Dexterity (20) : +4 (Reduced from +5 by armor)
                        10 + 2 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 32

                        Displayed AC : 29

                        Something is off in the state of denmark, still.

                        Note that all equipment was strictly off the shelf equipment.
                        It looks as if either the enhancement bonus to Natural Armor is not being applied, or the deflection bonus. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's the Natural Armor Enhancement, since the Natural Armor in the print out is not 6. But there is a +3 Miscellaneous, so not sure whether that's the deflection or the NA Enhancement.


                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G <ainvarg@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Player's Handbook, 3.5e
                        >
                        > p.123, chart is found in the lower left corner. I recognized everything
                        > mentioned previously except the parenthetical note that the armor bonus needed
                        > to be divided by 2. You learn something new every day.
                        >
                        > For sake of completeness, same chart (at least glancing at them both) with the
                        > same adjustment for tiny or smaller armor is found in Pathfinder Core rulebook,
                        > p. 153, right column.
                        >
                        > AinvarG
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
                        > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 7:55:54 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                        >
                        >
                        > Won't have access to my books till 10 hours from now -
                        >
                        > http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures
                        >
                        > But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone that wants to look through our
                        > actual r/srd sources will find it in that section.
                        >
                        > I remembered the rule from when I had a player with a Tiny character.
                        >
                        > And then we have the Pathfinder Wiki
                        >
                        > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html
                        >
                        > Scroll down bout half or so:
                        >
                        > You'll see the chart
                        > Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                        > Tiny or smaller* ×1/2 ×1/10 ×1 ×1/10
                        > Tiny or smaller* | etc....
                        >
                        > *Divide armor bonus by 2.
                        >
                        > Anyways, it exists. Exact pages, well that will have to wait till I have time to
                        >
                        > look it up.--
                        > Andrew
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Eric C Smith <maredudd@...>
                        > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:36:37 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                        >
                        > Hi Folks!
                        >
                        > Andrew wrote:
                        > > Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite
                        > > for you, but I recall that the
                        > > cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base
                        > > Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                        > >
                        >
                        > When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?
                        >
                        > Maredudd
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                        > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Matthew
                        Anything with a weight does indeed have an importance for size. For example, a medium sized set of clothes might weigh 5 lbs, but a tiny set might way only
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Anything with a weight does indeed have an importance for size. For example, a medium sized set of clothes might weigh 5 lbs, but a tiny set might way only 0.5 lbs. Same goes for a winter blanket, an amulet (0.2 vs 0.02), etc. Tiny creatures usually have significantly less str and thus also less carry capacity. Thus keeping the items as medium causes issues. Mainly, this is because PCGEN automatically totes up your weight and tosses it into the formula for ground speed and even some other calculations such as class features (barbarian speed for example).

                          While I can create a custom item and reset the weight, it won't often let me save it unless I also change the name (it throws an error saying that item already exists).

                          I really think that all items should be allowed to be changed in size, so the app can take the weight changes into account. By the same token, a 0.2 lb bracer for a medium character will weigh significantly more when created for a large or collosal creature. So, not adjusting weight by size for items that aren't armor/weapons gives larger than medium creatures a free weight allowance.

                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > Yahoo may have eaten it. I don't see any mod notices.
                          >
                          > Okay, so here's the thing -
                          >
                          > Amulets, Rings, etc - Size won't matter since that's tied to Wielding mainly, they were not coded to
                          > be resized, a minor oversight, but won't change anything on the character.
                          >
                          > Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite for you, but I recall that the
                          > cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                          >
                          > Weapon - Size does matter, it's tied to Damage, and if the character can use it without penalty or
                          > even at all.
                          >
                          > Feat, Dodge - Doesn't matter, that a circumstantial bonus last I checked, it applies only to a
                          > single attacker that you designate. Unless the rules have changed you shouldn't be seeing that on
                          > the Character Sheet.
                          >
                          >
                          > Medium Character would have gotten 10 + (+6 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 0 (2 for your comparison) Size + 6 Natural Armor + (1 Dodge circumstantial, should be 0) = 32 AC. REAL AC should have been 29 if Medium.
                          >
                          > Tiny Character : 10 + (+6 /2=3 Armor Base, +3 Armor Enhancement) =6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) +3 Natural Armor Enhancement + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC. REAL AC should be 26.
                          >
                          > It appears the natural Armor may not have been added to your "Example", but that may because you
                          > gave it another TYPE.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On 7/24/2010 10:57 AM, Matthew wrote:
                          > > I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(
                          > >
                          > > PCGen5163RC1
                          > > PathFinder (PFRPG)
                          > > Windows.
                          > >
                          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@> wrote:
                          > >> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                          > >> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                          > >> Operating System?
                          > >>
                          > >> David
                          > >> Papa.DRB
                          > >>
                          > >> Grognard (definition 1)
                          > >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                          > >> My better half and me
                          > >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                          > >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                          > >>
                          > >> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                          > >>> Ok,
                          > >>> I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
                          > >>>
                          > >>> However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Equipment :
                          > >>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
                          > >>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
                          > >>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                          > >>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Feats :
                          > >>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                          > >>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Issues I found :
                          > >>>
                          > >>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                          > >>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                          > >>>
                          > >>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > Related Lists
                          > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                          > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                          > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                          > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                          > >
                          > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          > >
                          > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          > > (for new official data source development)
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                          > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                          > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                          > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                          > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • David R. Bender
                          Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to Wisdom. Using the
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon
                            kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to
                            Wisdom. Using the statblock5.htm preview sheet.

                            Before feats and equipment:
                            AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) All OK.

                            + Dodge feat:
                            AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) Note 1.

                            + Improved Natural Armor feat (*crud* added an ability point to Con
                            otherwise he does not qualify for the feat):
                            AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, ) Note 1.

                            + Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (easier than creating a new item):
                            AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 18 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, ) Note 1.

                            + Ring of Protection +3:
                            AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 21 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                            deflection, ) Note 1.

                            + Mithral chainmail barding +3:
                            AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 27 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                            deflection, +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral), ) Note 1. Note 2.

                            Note 1: correct AC, does not display the dodge modification * & **
                            * the "preview.htm" preview sheet shows +1 deflection for the dodge
                            feat, which is incorrect as it is a "dodge" bonus not "deflection".
                            Also, this sheet shows the Ring of Protection +3 as "misc" and not
                            deflection.... *very interesting*
                            Note 2: +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral) means +6 AC total, and
                            the name of the item is +3 Barding xxxxx. This could be confusing, so
                            the Tiny modifiers are correct.

                            Conclusion: All is working as RAW. Two minor issues, the +6 +3 Barding
                            xxx is confusing and perhaps needs to be output slightly differently and
                            the "dodge" bonus is not displayed as "dodge" on either of the two
                            sheets, and on one sheet (Preview.htm) is displayed IMHO wrong.

                            David
                            Papa.DRB

                            Grognard (definition 1)
                            <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                            My better half and me
                            <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                            Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                            On 7/24/2010 1:57 PM, Matthew wrote:
                            > I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto the boards. :(
                            >
                            > PCGen5163RC1
                            > PathFinder (PFRPG)
                            > Windows.
                            >
                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                            >> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                            >> Operating System?
                            >>
                            >> David
                            >> Papa.DRB
                            >>
                            >> Grognard (definition 1)
                            >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                            >> My better half and me
                            >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                            >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                            >>
                            >> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> Ok,
                            >>> I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
                            >>>
                            >>> However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                            >>>
                            >>> Equipment :
                            >>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured and Shadowed.
                            >>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.
                            >>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                            >>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                            >>>
                            >>> Feats :
                            >>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                            >>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                            >>>
                            >>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and barding).
                            >>>
                            >>> Issues I found :
                            >>>
                            >>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                            >>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                            >>>
                            >>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                            >>>
                            >>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price seemed to work out correctly.
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Related Lists
                            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                            > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                            > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                            >
                            > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                            >
                            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                            > (for new official data source development)
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Andrew Maitland
                            Thanks for the leg work there David. If you can tracker those OS sheets, see if we can t clean those up and see what is acting up.  -- Andrew
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks for the leg work there David. If you can tracker those OS sheets, see if
                              we can't clean those up and see what is acting up.
                               --
                              Andrew




                              ________________________________
                              From: David R. Bender <Papa.DRB@...>
                              To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:30:29 AM
                              Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

                              Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon
                              kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to
                              Wisdom. Using the statblock5.htm preview sheet.

                              Before feats and equipment:
                              AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) All OK.

                              + Dodge feat:
                              AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 14    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) Note 1.

                              + Improved Natural Armor feat (*crud* added an ability point to Con
                              otherwise he does not qualify for the feat):
                              AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, ) Note 1.

                              + Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (easier than creating a new item):
                              AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 18    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, ) Note 1.

                              + Ring of Protection +3:
                              AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 21    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                              deflection, ) Note 1.

                              + Mithral chainmail barding +3:
                              AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 27    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                              deflection, +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral), ) Note 1. Note 2.

                              Note 1: correct AC, does not display the dodge modification * & **
                              * the "preview.htm" preview sheet shows +1 deflection for the dodge
                              feat, which is incorrect as it is a "dodge" bonus not "deflection".
                              Also, this sheet shows the Ring of Protection +3 as "misc" and not
                              deflection.... *very interesting*
                              Note 2: +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral) means +6 AC total, and
                              the name of the item is +3 Barding xxxxx. This could be confusing, so
                              the Tiny modifiers are correct.

                              Conclusion: All is working as RAW. Two minor issues, the +6 +3 Barding
                              xxx is confusing and perhaps needs to be output slightly differently and
                              the "dodge" bonus is not displayed as "dodge" on either of the two
                              sheets, and on one sheet (Preview.htm) is displayed IMHO wrong.

                              David
                              Papa.DRB

                              Grognard (definition 1)
                              <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                              My better half and me
                              <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                              Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                              On 7/24/2010 1:57 PM, Matthew wrote:
                              > I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto
                              >the boards. :(
                              >
                              > PCGen5163RC1
                              > PathFinder (PFRPG)
                              > Windows.
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...>  wrote:
                              >   
                              >> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                              >> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                              >> Operating System?
                              >>
                              >> David
                              >> Papa.DRB
                              >>
                              >> Grognard (definition 1)
                              >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                              >> My better half and me
                              >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                              >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                              >>
                              >> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                              >>     
                              >>> Ok,
                              >>>    I know this is weird, but, bear with me.  I had someone ask me to make them
                              >>>a psuedodragon cohort.  So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
                              >>>
                              >>>    However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                              >>>
                              >>> Equipment :
                              >>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured
                              >>>and Shadowed.
                              >>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus
                              >>Enhancement.
                              >>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding&  +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                              >>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                              >>>
                              >>> Feats :
                              >>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                              >>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                              >>>
                              >>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use
                              >>>(rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and
                              >>>barding).
                              >>>
                              >>> Issues I found :
                              >>>
                              >>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except
                              >>>armor/weapons.  IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should
                              >>>be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                              >>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly.  What I got should have been : 10 + 9
                              >>>(Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC.  What I got was
                              >>>: 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC
                              >>>(!).  The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                              >>>
                              >>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                              >>>
                              >>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing.  Addtype=Ring.  Add +3
                              >>>Deflection Bonus.  Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. 
                              >>>The ring came out right, and had the right name and price.  For the amulet, I
                              >>>took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called
                              >>>Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection).  Again,
                              >>>price seemed to work out correctly.
                              >>>       
                              >>     
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Related Lists
                              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                              > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                              > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                              >http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                              >
                              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                              >
                              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                              > (for new official data source development)
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >   


                              ------------------------------------

                              Related Lists
                              PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                              PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                              PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                              PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                              PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                              PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                              http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                              PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                              (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                              PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                              (for new official data source development)
                              Yahoo! Groups Links



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Andrew Maitland
                              Matthew has been losing posts to this group and in a final act of desparation sent the post direct to me, so on behalf of Matt: I used the gui to make the
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Matthew has been losing posts to this group and in a final act of desparation
                                sent the post direct to me, so on behalf of Matt:


                                I used the gui to make the magical objects, I didn't hand-code any of them.

                                Psuedodragon : +4 AC (+2 natural armor, +2 size), default psuedodragon from
                                bestiary.
                                Chain mail Barding +3 (+6 AC)
                                Amulet of Mighty Fists (Added +3 Natural armor enhancement to it via gui).
                                Boots (Addtype Ring via gui, add +3 Deflection via gui).
                                Equip boots on ring slot, equip amulet on amulet slot, equip barding on body
                                slot.
                                AC Bonuses :

                                Size : +2
                                Natural Armor : +2
                                Improved Natural Armor : +1
                                Dodge : +1
                                +3 Enhancement to Natural Armor : +3
                                +3 Deflection Bonus to Armor : +3
                                Dexterity : +4
                                Chainmail Armor : +6 (as pointed out, I had this wrong)
                                Total AC should be : 10 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 +1 = 32

                                AC being shown : 29

                                Something is off.


                                -END POST

                                On the Mod side of things, Matt has not been banned, has no moderation stuff
                                coming our way. I'm investigating this.
                                 --
                                Andrew




                                ________________________________
                                From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:41:49 AM
                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

                                Thanks for the leg work there David. If you can tracker those OS sheets, see if
                                we can't clean those up and see what is acting up.
                                 --
                                Andrew




                                ________________________________
                                From: David R. Bender <Papa.DRB@...>
                                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:30:29 AM
                                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?

                                Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon
                                kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to
                                Wisdom. Using the statblock5.htm preview sheet.

                                Before feats and equipment:
                                AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) All OK.

                                + Dodge feat:
                                AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 14    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) Note 1.

                                + Improved Natural Armor feat (*crud* added an ability point to Con
                                otherwise he does not qualify for the feat):
                                AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, ) Note 1.

                                + Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (easier than creating a new item):
                                AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 18    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, ) Note 1.

                                + Ring of Protection +3:
                                AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 21    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                deflection, ) Note 1.

                                + Mithral chainmail barding +3:
                                AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 27    ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                deflection, +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral), ) Note 1. Note 2.

                                Note 1: correct AC, does not display the dodge modification * & **
                                * the "preview.htm" preview sheet shows +1 deflection for the dodge
                                feat, which is incorrect as it is a "dodge" bonus not "deflection".
                                Also, this sheet shows the Ring of Protection +3 as "misc" and not
                                deflection.... *very interesting*
                                Note 2: +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral) means +6 AC total, and
                                the name of the item is +3 Barding xxxxx. This could be confusing, so
                                the Tiny modifiers are correct.

                                Conclusion: All is working as RAW. Two minor issues, the +6 +3 Barding
                                xxx is confusing and perhaps needs to be output slightly differently and
                                the "dodge" bonus is not displayed as "dodge" on either of the two
                                sheets, and on one sheet (Preview.htm) is displayed IMHO wrong.

                                David
                                Papa.DRB

                                Grognard (definition 1)
                                <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                My better half and me
                                <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                                On 7/24/2010 1:57 PM, Matthew wrote:
                                > I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto
                                >the boards. :(
                                >
                                > PCGen5163RC1
                                > PathFinder (PFRPG)
                                > Windows.
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...>  wrote:
                                >   
                                >> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                                >> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                                >> Operating System?
                                >>
                                >> David
                                >> Papa.DRB
                                >>
                                >> Grognard (definition 1)
                                >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                >> My better half and me
                                >> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                >> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                >>
                                >> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                >>     
                                >>> Ok,
                                >>>    I know this is weird, but, bear with me.  I had someone ask me to make them
                                >>
                                >>>a psuedodragon cohort.  So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of
                                >Cleric).
                                >>>
                                >>>    However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                                >>>
                                >>> Equipment :
                                >>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured

                                >>>and Shadowed.
                                >>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus
                                >>Enhancement.
                                >>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding&  +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                                >>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                                >>>
                                >>> Feats :
                                >>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                                >>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                                >>>
                                >>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use

                                >>>(rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and
                                >>>barding).
                                >>>
                                >>> Issues I found :
                                >>>
                                >>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except
                                >>>armor/weapons.  IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should

                                >>>be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                                >>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly.  What I got should have been : 10 + 9
                                >>
                                >>>(Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC.  What I got was
                                >>
                                >>>: 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC
                                >>>(!).  The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                                >>>
                                >>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                                >>>
                                >>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing.  Addtype=Ring.  Add +3
                                >>>Deflection Bonus.  Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing. 

                                >>>The ring came out right, and had the right name and price.  For the amulet, I

                                >>>took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called
                                >
                                >>>Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection).  Again,

                                >>>price seemed to work out correctly.
                                >>>       
                                >>     
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Related Lists
                                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                >http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                >
                                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                >
                                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                > (for new official data source development)
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >   


                                ------------------------------------

                                Related Lists
                                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                                PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                                PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                (for new official data source development)
                                Yahoo! Groups Links



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                ------------------------------------

                                Related Lists
                                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                                PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                                PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                (for new official data source development)
                                Yahoo! Groups Links



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David R. Bender
                                http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/OS-22 Back to the OP. If you would upload the .pcg file, I will take a look at it, and maybe can figure out what is occurring.
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/OS-22

                                  Back to the OP. If you would upload the .pcg file, I will take a look at
                                  it, and maybe can figure out what is occurring.

                                  David
                                  Papa.DRB

                                  Grognard (definition 1)
                                  <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                  My better half and me
                                  <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                  Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                                  On 7/25/2010 12:41 PM, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                                  > Thanks for the leg work there David. If you can tracker those OS sheets, see if
                                  > we can't clean those up and see what is acting up.
                                  > --
                                  > Andrew
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: David R. Bender<Papa.DRB@...>
                                  > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:30:29 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                  >
                                  > Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon
                                  > kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to
                                  > Wisdom. Using the statblock5.htm preview sheet.
                                  >
                                  > Before feats and equipment:
                                  > AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) All OK.
                                  >
                                  > + Dodge feat:
                                  > AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) Note 1.
                                  >
                                  > + Improved Natural Armor feat (*crud* added an ability point to Con
                                  > otherwise he does not qualify for the feat):
                                  > AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, ) Note 1.
                                  >
                                  > + Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (easier than creating a new item):
                                  > AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 18 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, ) Note 1.
                                  >
                                  > + Ring of Protection +3:
                                  > AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 21 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                  > deflection, ) Note 1.
                                  >
                                  > + Mithral chainmail barding +3:
                                  > AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 27 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                  > deflection, +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral), ) Note 1. Note 2.
                                  >
                                  > Note 1: correct AC, does not display the dodge modification *& **
                                  > * the "preview.htm" preview sheet shows +1 deflection for the dodge
                                  > feat, which is incorrect as it is a "dodge" bonus not "deflection".
                                  > Also, this sheet shows the Ring of Protection +3 as "misc" and not
                                  > deflection.... *very interesting*
                                  > Note 2: +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral) means +6 AC total, and
                                  > the name of the item is +3 Barding xxxxx. This could be confusing, so
                                  > the Tiny modifiers are correct.
                                  >
                                  > Conclusion: All is working as RAW. Two minor issues, the +6 +3 Barding
                                  > xxx is confusing and perhaps needs to be output slightly differently and
                                  > the "dodge" bonus is not displayed as "dodge" on either of the two
                                  > sheets, and on one sheet (Preview.htm) is displayed IMHO wrong.
                                  >
                                  > David
                                  > Papa.DRB
                                  >
                                  > Grognard (definition 1)
                                  > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                  > My better half and me
                                  > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                  > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                  >
                                  > On 7/24/2010 1:57 PM, Matthew wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto
                                  >> the boards. :(
                                  >>
                                  >> PCGen5163RC1
                                  >> PathFinder (PFRPG)
                                  >> Windows.
                                  >>
                                  >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                                  >>> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                                  >>> Operating System?
                                  >>>
                                  >>> David
                                  >>> Papa.DRB
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Grognard (definition 1)
                                  >>> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                  >>> My better half and me
                                  >>> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                  >>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>> Ok,
                                  >>>> I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them
                                  >>>> a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of Cleric).
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Equipment :
                                  >>>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured
                                  >>>> and Shadowed.
                                  >>>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus
                                  >>>>
                                  >>> Enhancement.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                                  >>>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Feats :
                                  >>>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                                  >>>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use
                                  >>>> (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and
                                  >>>> barding).
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Issues I found :
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except
                                  >>>> armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should
                                  >>>> be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                                  >>>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9
                                  >>>> (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was
                                  >>>> : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC
                                  >>>> (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3
                                  >>>> Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing.
                                  >>>> The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I
                                  >>>> took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called
                                  >>>> Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again,
                                  >>>> price seemed to work out correctly.
                                • David R. Bender
                                  What are the creatures final stats, and final HD. For a Cleric 14, it should have 2 levels of Dragon and 14 levels of Cleric. Started with 15 Dex and 12 Wis
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    What are the creatures final stats, and final HD.

                                    For a Cleric 14, it should have 2 levels of Dragon and 14 levels of Cleric.

                                    Started with 15 Dex and 12 Wis and added all points to Wis so how is it
                                    getting +4 Dex to AC?

                                    Also, did you give it any other equipment? What load level is it at,
                                    light, medium, heavy?

                                    Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.

                                    David
                                    Papa.DRB

                                    Grognard (definition 1)
                                    <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                    My better half and me
                                    <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                    Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                                    On 7/25/2010 1:20 PM, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                                    > Matthew has been losing posts to this group and in a final act of desparation
                                    > sent the post direct to me, so on behalf of Matt:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I used the gui to make the magical objects, I didn't hand-code any of them.
                                    >
                                    > Psuedodragon : +4 AC (+2 natural armor, +2 size), default psuedodragon from
                                    > bestiary.
                                    > Chain mail Barding +3 (+6 AC)
                                    > Amulet of Mighty Fists (Added +3 Natural armor enhancement to it via gui).
                                    > Boots (Addtype Ring via gui, add +3 Deflection via gui).
                                    > Equip boots on ring slot, equip amulet on amulet slot, equip barding on body
                                    > slot.
                                    > AC Bonuses :
                                    >
                                    > Size : +2
                                    > Natural Armor : +2
                                    > Improved Natural Armor : +1
                                    > Dodge : +1
                                    > +3 Enhancement to Natural Armor : +3
                                    > +3 Deflection Bonus to Armor : +3
                                    > Dexterity : +4
                                    > Chainmail Armor : +6 (as pointed out, I had this wrong)
                                    > Total AC should be : 10 + 6 + 4 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 +1 = 32
                                    >
                                    > AC being shown : 29
                                    >
                                    > Something is off.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -END POST
                                    >
                                    > On the Mod side of things, Matt has not been banned, has no moderation stuff
                                    > coming our way. I'm investigating this.
                                    > --
                                    > Andrew
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...>
                                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:41:49 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the leg work there David. If you can tracker those OS sheets, see if
                                    > we can't clean those up and see what is acting up.
                                    > --
                                    > Andrew
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: David R. Bender<Papa.DRB@...>
                                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 9:30:29 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                    >
                                    > Ok, Pseudodragon 2 / Cleric 14. Did *not* use the Default Pseudodragon
                                    > kit. Also, I am using PCGen5163RC2. Added all level ability points to
                                    > Wisdom. Using the statblock5.htm preview sheet.
                                    >
                                    > Before feats and equipment:
                                    > AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) All OK.
                                    >
                                    > + Dodge feat:
                                    > AC 17, touch 15, flat-footed 14 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +2 natural, ) Note 1.
                                    >
                                    > + Improved Natural Armor feat (*crud* added an ability point to Con
                                    > otherwise he does not qualify for the feat):
                                    > AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 15 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, ) Note 1.
                                    >
                                    > + Amulet of Natural Armor +3 (easier than creating a new item):
                                    > AC 21, touch 15, flat-footed 18 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, ) Note 1.
                                    >
                                    > + Ring of Protection +3:
                                    > AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 21 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                    > deflection, ) Note 1.
                                    >
                                    > + Mithral chainmail barding +3:
                                    > AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 27 ( +2 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural, +3
                                    > deflection, +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral), ) Note 1. Note 2.
                                    >
                                    > Note 1: correct AC, does not display the dodge modification *& **
                                    > * the "preview.htm" preview sheet shows +1 deflection for the dodge
                                    > feat, which is incorrect as it is a "dodge" bonus not "deflection".
                                    > Also, this sheet shows the Ring of Protection +3 as "misc" and not
                                    > deflection.... *very interesting*
                                    > Note 2: +6 +3 Barding (Chainmail/Tiny/Mithral) means +6 AC total, and
                                    > the name of the item is +3 Barding xxxxx. This could be confusing, so
                                    > the Tiny modifiers are correct.
                                    >
                                    > Conclusion: All is working as RAW. Two minor issues, the +6 +3 Barding
                                    > xxx is confusing and perhaps needs to be output slightly differently and
                                    > the "dodge" bonus is not displayed as "dodge" on either of the two
                                    > sheets, and on one sheet (Preview.htm) is displayed IMHO wrong.
                                    >
                                    > David
                                    > Papa.DRB
                                    >
                                    > Grognard (definition 1)
                                    > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                    > My better half and me
                                    > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                    > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                    >
                                    > On 7/24/2010 1:57 PM, Matthew wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> I posted a followup with that info, but it doesn't seem to have made it onto
                                    >> the boards. :(
                                    >>
                                    >> PCGen5163RC1
                                    >> PathFinder (PFRPG)
                                    >> Windows.
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>> Complete PCGen level: 5.16.x, 5.16.3.RCx, 5.17.x, Other?
                                    >>> SRD, RSRD, PFRPG, Other?
                                    >>> Operating System?
                                    >>>
                                    >>> David
                                    >>> Papa.DRB
                                    >>>
                                    >>> Grognard (definition 1)
                                    >>> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                    >>> My better half and me
                                    >>> <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                    >>> Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> On 7/24/2010 10:09 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> Ok,
                                    >>>> I know this is weird, but, bear with me. I had someone ask me to make them
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> a psuedodragon cohort. So, I made a pseudodragon cleric (14 levels of
                                    >>>>
                                    >> Cleric).
                                    >>
                                    >>>> However, when I made the equipment, and equipped it, things got wierd.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Equipment :
                                    >>>> a) +3 Mithral Chainmail Barding (+9 AC, Max Dex +4, -2 ACP, Tiny), Glamoured
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> and Shadowed.
                                    >>>> b) Combined Amulet of Might Fists (+3) with +3 Natural Armor Bonus
                                    >>>>
                                    >>> Enhancement.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> c) Ring of Springing and Striding& +3 Ring of Protection (+3 Deflection)
                                    >>>> d) Ring of Regeneration
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Feats :
                                    >>>> 1) Dodge (+1 Dodge Bonus to AC)
                                    >>>> 2) Improved Natural Armor (+1 to Natural Armor)
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Because it's a pseudodragon, I decided that's all the equipment it could use
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> (rings used as bracelets around it's wrists, tiny amulet around neck, and
                                    >>>> barding).
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Issues I found :
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> 1) The equipment won't let me make a tiny version of anything except
                                    >>>> armor/weapons. IE: It makes all rings Medium (fine in this case, they should
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> be), but I couldn't make a 'tiny' amulet.
                                    >>>> 2) The AC didn't get added up correctly. What I got should have been : 10 + 9
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 Size + 6 Natural Armor + 1 Dodge = 32 AC. What I got was
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> : 10 + 6 (Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Size) + 3 (Natural Armor) + 0 (Misc) = 29 AC
                                    >>>> (!). The displayed AC's add up to 25, not 29, and the numbers are off by 2.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Now, how I made the equipment was :
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add +3
                                    >>>> Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and Springing.
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> The ring came out right, and had the right name and price. For the amulet, I
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called
                                    >>>>
                                    >>
                                    >>>> Amulet of Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again,
                                    >>>>
                                    >
                                    >>>> price seemed to work out correctly.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ------------------------------------
                                    >>
                                    >> Related Lists
                                    >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    >> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
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                                    >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
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                                    >
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                                  • Matthew
                                    Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It s Haelali.pcg. I don t know if this post will show up though, Yahoo s been eating every post I posted
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                                      Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).

                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" <Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                      > Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                    • Andrew Maitland
                                      Hi, And now you made it through. :) ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin Unique Title
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 25, 2010
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                                        Hi,

                                        And now you made it through. :)


                                        On 7/25/2010 9:40 PM, Matthew wrote:
                                        > Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).
                                        >
                                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                        >> Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Related Lists
                                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
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                                        --
                                        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                                        Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • David R. Bender
                                        Ok, got it. The issue is that PCGen is not recognizing the +3 Natural Armor Bonus on the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Don t know why, but that is the issue. Over to
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                          Ok, got it. The issue is that PCGen is not recognizing the +3 Natural
                                          Armor Bonus on the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Don't know why, but that is
                                          the issue. Over to code folks. Oh, and if you equip a regular Amulet of
                                          Natural Armor +3, it works correctly.

                                          David
                                          Papa.DRB

                                          Grognard (definition 1)
                                          <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                          My better half and me
                                          <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                          Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                                          On 7/26/2010 12:40 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                          > Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).
                                          >
                                          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                        • Eric C Smith
                                          Hi Folks! Not sure if the following applies to the attempts others have made, but I noticed something in the OP s original post. ... I did a quick scan through
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                            Hi Folks!

                                            Not sure if the following applies to the attempts others have made,
                                            but I noticed something in the OP's original post.

                                            Matthew wrote:
                                            > Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring. Add
                                            > +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of Striding and
                                            > Springing. The ring came out right, and had the right name and
                                            > price. For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty Fists (+3) and
                                            > created a custom object from it called Amulet of Naturally
                                            > Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again, price
                                            > seemed to work out correctly.
                                            >

                                            I did a quick scan through the replies to this thread and didn't see
                                            any mention of this possible issue:

                                            The OP has a +3 deflection bonus added to the Ring and a +3 deflection
                                            bonus added to the amulet. Is the deflection bonus one of the types
                                            that stacks?

                                            Maredudd
                                          • Stefan Radermacher
                                            It s possible Matthew added +3 natural armor bonus to the amulet, which is different from +3 enhancement bonus to natural armor , which is what the Amulet
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                              It's possible Matthew added "+3 natural armor bonus" to the amulet,
                                              which is different from "+3 enhancement bonus to natural armor", which
                                              is what the Amulet of Natural Armor does. In the first case, it would
                                              not stack with the pseudodragon's own natural armor bonus.

                                              Stefan.

                                              On 26.07.2010 14:02, David R. Bender wrote:
                                              > Ok, got it. The issue is that PCGen is not recognizing the +3 Natural
                                              > Armor Bonus on the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Don't know why, but that is
                                              > the issue. Over to code folks. Oh, and if you equip a regular Amulet of
                                              > Natural Armor +3, it works correctly.
                                              >
                                              > David
                                              > Papa.DRB
                                              >
                                              > Grognard (definition 1)
                                              > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                              > My better half and me
                                              > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                              > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                              >
                                              > On 7/26/2010 12:40 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                              >> Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).
                                              >>
                                              >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >>> Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Related Lists
                                              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
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                                              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                              > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                              >
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                                            • Stefan Radermacher
                                              ... No, stacking bonuses are: dodge, racial, and circumstance (as long as they come from different circumstances). Stefan.
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                On 26.07.2010 14:28, Eric C Smith wrote:

                                                > The OP has a +3 deflection bonus added to the Ring and a +3 deflection
                                                > bonus added to the amulet. Is the deflection bonus one of the types
                                                > that stacks?

                                                No, stacking bonuses are: dodge, racial, and circumstance (as long as
                                                they come from different circumstances).

                                                Stefan.
                                              • Matt Thompson
                                                No, I was very careful about choosing natural armor enhancement. I thought at least. It is possible I picked the wrong one (not at home to check). As to what
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                  No, I was very careful about choosing natural armor enhancement. I thought at least. It is possible I picked the wrong one (not at home to check).

                                                  As to what stacks, all bonus's of different types stack. So, armor, shield, natural armor, dodge, racial, holy, infernal, luck, circumstance, and deflection all stack.

                                                  Dodge bonuses stack with each other, as do different types of circumstance bonus. If you somehow get two different racial bonuses ( say from base race plus template) then those stack with each other as well.

                                                  Enhancement bonuses are special critters that boost a base bonus type (shield, natural armor, or armor). They do not stack.

                                                  Stefan Radermacher <radermacher@...> wrote:

                                                  >On 26.07.2010 14:28, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >> The OP has a +3 deflection bonus added to the Ring and a +3 deflection
                                                  >> bonus added to the amulet. Is the deflection bonus one of the types
                                                  >> that stacks?
                                                  >
                                                  >No, stacking bonuses are: dodge, racial, and circumstance (as long as
                                                  >they come from different circumstances).
                                                  >
                                                  >Stefan.
                                                • Andrew Wilson
                                                  I think you re misunderstanding the shorthand. When Stephan say only some bonuses stack, he means only some bonbuses stack with themselves. It doesn t matter
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                    I think you're misunderstanding the shorthand. When Stephan say only some
                                                    bonuses stack, he means only some bonbuses stack with themselves. It
                                                    doesn't matter how many dodge bonuses you have, you get them all. Whereas
                                                    You only get the best of your many Armour bonuses, shield spell doesn't stack
                                                    with an actual shield, etc.

                                                    andrew

                                                    On 26 July 2010 15:43, Matt Thompson <mattdt0@...> wrote:
                                                    > No, I was very careful about choosing natural armor enhancement.  I thought at least.  It is possible I picked the wrong one (not at home to check).
                                                    >
                                                    > As to what stacks, all bonus's of different types stack.  So, armor, shield, natural armor, dodge, racial, holy, infernal, luck, circumstance, and deflection all stack.
                                                    >
                                                    > Dodge bonuses stack with each other, as do different types of circumstance bonus.  If you somehow get two different racial bonuses ( say from base race plus template) then those stack with each other as well.
                                                    >
                                                    > Enhancement bonuses are special critters that boost a base bonus type (shield, natural armor, or armor).  They do not stack.
                                                    >
                                                    > Stefan Radermacher <radermacher@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >>On 26.07.2010 14:28, Eric C Smith wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >>> The OP has a +3 deflection bonus added to the Ring and a +3 deflection
                                                    >>> bonus added to the amulet. Is the deflection bonus one of the types
                                                    >>> that stacks?
                                                    >>
                                                    >>No, stacking bonuses are: dodge, racial, and circumstance (as long as
                                                    >>they come from different circumstances).
                                                    >>
                                                    >>Stefan.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ------------------------------------
                                                    >
                                                    > Related Lists
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                                                  • Maredudd
                                                    Hi Folks! ... And as Stefan pointed out, the Deflection bonus does not. ... Note the +3 Deflection bonus. ... Again, note the +3 Deflection bonus. These will
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                      Hi Folks!

                                                      Matt wrote:
                                                      > As to what stacks, all bonus's of different types stack. So,
                                                      > armor, shield, natural armor, dodge, racial, holy, infernal,
                                                      > luck, circumstance, and deflection all stack.
                                                      >
                                                      > Dodge bonuses stack with each other, as do different types
                                                      > of circumstance bonus. If you somehow get two different
                                                      > racial bonuses ( say from base race plus template) then those
                                                      > stack with each other as well.
                                                      >
                                                      > Enhancement bonuses are special critters that boost a base
                                                      > bonus type (shield, natural armor, or armor). They do not stack.

                                                      And as Stefan pointed out, the Deflection bonus does not.

                                                      Quoting your original post:

                                                      > Custom version of Boots of Striding and Springing. Addtype=Ring.
                                                      > Add +3 Deflection Bonus. Change Name to Protective Ring of
                                                      > Striding and Springing. The ring came out right, and had the
                                                      > right name and price.

                                                      Note the +3 Deflection bonus.

                                                      > For the amulet, I took an amulet of Mighty
                                                      > Fists (+3) and created a custom object from it called Amulet of
                                                      > Naturally Protective Mighty Fists (+3) and (+3 Deflection). Again,
                                                      > price seemed to work out correctly.

                                                      Again, note the +3 Deflection bonus.

                                                      These will note stack.

                                                      Maredudd
                                                    • Matthew Thompson
                                                      Yep, but the 3 other ones didn t. I m trying to see if using e-mail to post works better. All my other attempts prior to today were via the website, rather
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                        Yep,
                                                        but the 3 other ones didn't.

                                                        I'm trying to see if using e-mail to post works better. All my other attempts
                                                        prior to today were via the website, rather than via e-mail.




                                                        ________________________________
                                                        From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
                                                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                        Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 1:16:27 AM
                                                        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?


                                                        Hi,

                                                        And now you made it through. :)

                                                        On 7/25/2010 9:40 PM, Matthew wrote:
                                                        > Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I
                                                        >don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I
                                                        >posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                                        >> Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        > Related Lists
                                                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                                        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                                        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                                        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
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                                                        >http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                                        >
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                                                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
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                                                        > (for new official data source development)
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >

                                                        --
                                                        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                                        Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                                                        Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                                        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                                        Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • papa_drb
                                                        Let me be a little clearer. The Amulet of Mighty Fists with the additional Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor is *NOT* in the final AC calculations. That is
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
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                                                          Let me be a little clearer.

                                                          The Amulet of Mighty Fists with the additional Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor is *NOT* in the final AC calculations. That is where the off by 3 AC is coming from.

                                                          I have looked at the item in the .pcg file, but equip mods makes my head spin and green pea soup come out of my mouth so here are some possibilities...

                                                          EQUIPNAME:Amulet of Mighty Fists ( Natural Armor Bonus (Enhancement) (+3))|OUTPUTORDER:2|COST:18000.0|WT:0.02|QUANTITY:1.0|CUSTOMIZATION:[BASEITEM:Amulet of Mighty Fists|DATA:NAME=Amulet of Mighty Fists ( Natural Armor Bonus (Enhancement) (+3))$EQMOD=AMF.BNS_ENHC_NAT&pipe;+3]


                                                          1) The equip mod for BNS_ENH_NAT is not being added correctly to the equipment by the lst editor.
                                                          2) The equip mod for BNS_ENH_NAT is not being added to the Natural Armor AC correctly
                                                          3) The BNS_ENH_NAT equip mod is defined incorrectly.
                                                          4) Something else entirely.

                                                          However, I have narrowed the problem down to the Amulet of Mighty Fists and the added Natural Armor Bonus Enhancement.

                                                          As an FYI, a *normal* Amulet of Natural Armor +3 gives the correct AC.

                                                          -- david
                                                          Papa.DRB

                                                          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender" <Papa.DRB@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Ok, got it. The issue is that PCGen is not recognizing the +3 Natural
                                                          > Armor Bonus on the Amulet of Mighty Fists. Don't know why, but that is
                                                          > the issue. Over to code folks. Oh, and if you equip a regular Amulet of
                                                          > Natural Armor +3, it works correctly.
                                                          >
                                                          > David
                                                          > Papa.DRB
                                                          >
                                                          > Grognard (definition 1)
                                                          > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                                          > My better half and me
                                                          > <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                                          > Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                                          >
                                                          > On 7/26/2010 12:40 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                                          > > Put the file in links under files to be helped with. It's Haelali.pcg. I don't know if this post will show up though, Yahoo's been eating every post I posted today (all 6 of them with one exception).
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "David R. Bender"<Papa.DRB@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > >> Please upload the .pcg so we can take a look at it.
                                                          >
                                                        • David R. Bender
                                                          See my earlier post(s). The natural armor bonus on the amulet of might fists is not working. Possible reasons were listed in my earlier post(s). David Papa.DRB
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            See my earlier post(s). The natural armor bonus on the amulet of might
                                                            fists is not working. Possible reasons were listed in my earlier post(s).

                                                            David
                                                            Papa.DRB

                                                            Grognard (definition 1)
                                                            <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                                            My better half and me
                                                            <http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                                            Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

                                                            On 7/25/2010 11:13 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                                            > Alright,
                                                            > That explains the Armor being 6.
                                                            >
                                                            > However, the rest of the Natural Armor being off isn't explained.
                                                            >
                                                            > As to how I created the objects, I did it through the GUI using 'Create Custom Object'. I did not hand code any objects in the original.
                                                            >
                                                            > So, let's see what we should have :
                                                            >
                                                            > Pseudodragon Natural Armor (+2)
                                                            > Pseudodragon Size AC Bonus (+2)
                                                            > Armor (+6)
                                                            > Dodge (+1)
                                                            > Improved Natural Armor Feat (+1, Untyped bonus to Natural Armor)
                                                            > Amulet (+3 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor)
                                                            > Ring (+3 Deflection bonus to AC)
                                                            > Dexterity (20) : +4 (Reduced from +5 by armor)
                                                            > 10 + 2 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 32
                                                            >
                                                            > Displayed AC : 29
                                                            >
                                                            > Something is off in the state of denmark, still.
                                                            >
                                                            > Note that all equipment was strictly off the shelf equipment.
                                                            > It looks as if either the enhancement bonus to Natural Armor is not being applied, or the deflection bonus. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's the Natural Armor Enhancement, since the Natural Armor in the print out is not 6. But there is a +3 Miscellaneous, so not sure whether that's the deflection or the NA Enhancement.
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            >> Player's Handbook, 3.5e
                                                            >>
                                                            >> p.123, chart is found in the lower left corner. I recognized everything
                                                            >> mentioned previously except the parenthetical note that the armor bonus needed
                                                            >> to be divided by 2. You learn something new every day.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> For sake of completeness, same chart (at least glancing at them both) with the
                                                            >> same adjustment for tiny or smaller armor is found in Pathfinder Core rulebook,
                                                            >> p. 153, right column.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> AinvarG
                                                            >>
                                                            >>
                                                            >>
                                                            >>
                                                            >> ________________________________
                                                            >> From: Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...>
                                                            >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                            >> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 7:55:54 AM
                                                            >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                                            >>
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Won't have access to my books till 10 hours from now -
                                                            >>
                                                            >> http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures
                                                            >>
                                                            >> But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone that wants to look through our
                                                            >> actual r/srd sources will find it in that section.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> I remembered the rule from when I had a player with a Tiny character.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> And then we have the Pathfinder Wiki
                                                            >>
                                                            >> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Scroll down bout half or so:
                                                            >>
                                                            >> You'll see the chart
                                                            >> Tiny or smaller* Ã---1/2 Ã---1/10 Ã---1 Ã---1/10
                                                            >> Tiny or smaller* Ã---1/2 Ã---1/10 Ã---1 Ã---1/10
                                                            >> Tiny or smaller* | etc....
                                                            >>
                                                            >> *Divide armor bonus by 2.
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Anyways, it exists. Exact pages, well that will have to wait till I have time to
                                                            >>
                                                            >> look it up.--
                                                            >> Andrew
                                                            >>
                                                            >> ________________________________
                                                            >> From: Eric C Smith<maredudd@...>
                                                            >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                            >> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:36:37 AM
                                                            >> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Hi Folks!
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Andrew wrote:
                                                            >>
                                                            >>> Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite
                                                            >>> for you, but I recall that the
                                                            >>> cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base
                                                            >>> Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                                                            >>>
                                                            >>>
                                                            >> When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?
                                                            >>
                                                            >> Maredudd


                                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          • Matt Thompson
                                                            David, Those are posts I made 3 days ago that finally decided to post today. :)
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              David,
                                                              Those are posts I made 3 days ago that finally decided to post today. :)

                                                              "David R. Bender" <papa.drb@...> wrote:

                                                              >See my earlier post(s). The natural armor bonus on the amulet of might
                                                              >fists is not working. Possible reasons were listed in my earlier post(s).
                                                              >
                                                              >David
                                                              >Papa.DRB
                                                              >
                                                              >Grognard (definition 1)
                                                              ><http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Grognard.html>
                                                              >My better half and me
                                                              ><http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edavidstuff/Nana-and-Papa2.JPG>
                                                              >Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.
                                                              >
                                                              >On 7/25/2010 11:13 AM, Matthew wrote:
                                                              >> Alright,
                                                              >> That explains the Armor being 6.
                                                              >>
                                                              >> However, the rest of the Natural Armor being off isn't explained.
                                                              >>
                                                              >> As to how I created the objects, I did it through the GUI using 'Create Custom Object'. I did not hand code any objects in the original.
                                                              >>
                                                              >> So, let's see what we should have :
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Pseudodragon Natural Armor (+2)
                                                              >> Pseudodragon Size AC Bonus (+2)
                                                              >> Armor (+6)
                                                              >> Dodge (+1)
                                                              >> Improved Natural Armor Feat (+1, Untyped bonus to Natural Armor)
                                                              >> Amulet (+3 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor)
                                                              >> Ring (+3 Deflection bonus to AC)
                                                              >> Dexterity (20) : +4 (Reduced from +5 by armor)
                                                              >> 10 + 2 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 32
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Displayed AC : 29
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Something is off in the state of denmark, still.
                                                              >>
                                                              >> Note that all equipment was strictly off the shelf equipment.
                                                              >> It looks as if either the enhancement bonus to Natural Armor is not being applied, or the deflection bonus. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's the Natural Armor Enhancement, since the Natural Armor in the print out is not 6. But there is a +3 Miscellaneous, so not sure whether that's the deflection or the NA Enhancement.
                                                              >>
                                                              >>
                                                              >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
                                                              >>
                                                              >>> Player's Handbook, 3.5e
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> p.123, chart is found in the lower left corner. I recognized everything
                                                              >>> mentioned previously except the parenthetical note that the armor bonus needed
                                                              >>> to be divided by 2. You learn something new every day.
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> For sake of completeness, same chart (at least glancing at them both) with the
                                                              >>> same adjustment for tiny or smaller armor is found in Pathfinder Core rulebook,
                                                              >>> p. 153, right column.
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> AinvarG
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> ________________________________
                                                              >>> From: Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...>
                                                              >>> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                              >>> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 7:55:54 AM
                                                              >>> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Won't have access to my books till 10 hours from now -
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Armor_for_Unusual_Creatures
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> But since the wiki has it, I figure anyone that wants to look through our
                                                              >>> actual r/srd sources will find it in that section.
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> I remembered the rule from when I had a player with a Tiny character.
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> And then we have the Pathfinder Wiki
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Scroll down bout half or so:
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> You'll see the chart
                                                              >>> Tiny or smaller* Ã---1/2 Ã---1/10 Ã---1 Ã---1/10
                                                              >>> Tiny or smaller* Ã---1/2 Ã---1/10 Ã---1 Ã---1/10
                                                              >>> Tiny or smaller* | etc....
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> *Divide armor bonus by 2.
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Anyways, it exists. Exact pages, well that will have to wait till I have time to
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> look it up.--
                                                              >>> Andrew
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> ________________________________
                                                              >>> From: Eric C Smith<maredudd@...>
                                                              >>> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                                              >>> Sent: Sun, July 25, 2010 5:36:37 AM
                                                              >>> Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: [BUG] AC additions when using non-human race?
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Hi Folks!
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Andrew wrote:
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>>> Armor - Smaller Armor grants LESS AC, I don't have a page to cite
                                                              >>>> for you, but I recall that the
                                                              >>>> cost decreases, but so does the protection it grants. (1/2 of Base
                                                              >>>> Armor Value for Tiny and smaller)
                                                              >>>>
                                                              >>>>
                                                              >>> When you get a chance can you find and post a page for this?
                                                              >>>
                                                              >>> Maredudd
                                                            • Matthew Thompson
                                                              Ok, David nailed it. Finally got the file open again (on the road) and I messed up, I put Natural Armor instead of Natural Armor Enhancement. :) Thanks!
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jul 26, 2010
                                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                                Ok,
                                                                David nailed it. Finally got the file open again (on the road) and I messed
                                                                up, I put Natural Armor instead of Natural Armor Enhancement. :) Thanks!





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