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Re: [pcgen] Increasing memory

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  • Martijn Verburg
    Hi all, actually, I am also intrigued by the possible range of answers, as the ... PCGen has needed increasing memory over the years due to the increasing size
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 29, 2010
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      Hi all,

      actually, I am also intrigued by the possible range of answers, as the
      > numbers suggested for running PCGen date back into history ... ranges of
      > 64MB to 256MB ... I am running Windows 64-bit, with 4GB, and likely will
      > upgrade to 8GB at some point (it makes avoids paging when loading silly
      > numbers of very large multi-layer raster images into Photoshop...)
      >
      > So ... what happens if you let PCGen use, say, 2GB ... does it build up
      > 2GB of heap and then throw itself into a paroxysm of garbage collection?
      >

      PCGen has needed increasing memory over the years due to the increasing size
      of data and the number of data sets and characters people tend to load.
      It's also fair to say that our internal storage structures haven't always
      been the most efficient. We're already starting to see improvements in the
      5.17.x Alpha releases although performance isn't the major issue we're
      tackling this iteration.

      If you give PCGen 2GB and load up some characters/data sets it'll tend to
      hold pretty steady (it's how I run it at home).

      K


      >
      > --
      > Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
      > ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+
      > Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
      > Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
      > Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Saxum Caribetum
      ... ok ... so the old way to start PCGen was with the .BAT file and command line options for memory limits -- what is the preferred method to start with
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 29, 2010
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        On 29/06/2010 08:27, Martijn Verburg wrote:
        > Hi all,
        >
        > actually, I am also intrigued by the possible range of answers, as the
        >> numbers suggested for running PCGen date back into history ... ranges of
        >> 64MB to 256MB ... I am running Windows 64-bit, with 4GB, and likely will
        >> upgrade to 8GB at some point (it makes avoids paging when loading silly
        >> numbers of very large multi-layer raster images into Photoshop...)
        >>
        >> So ... what happens if you let PCGen use, say, 2GB ... does it build up
        >> 2GB of heap and then throw itself into a paroxysm of garbage collection?
        >>
        > PCGen has needed increasing memory over the years due to the increasing size
        > of data and the number of data sets and characters people tend to load.
        > It's also fair to say that our internal storage structures haven't always
        > been the most efficient. We're already starting to see improvements in the
        > 5.17.x Alpha releases although performance isn't the major issue we're
        > tackling this iteration.
        >
        > If you give PCGen 2GB and load up some characters/data sets it'll tend to
        > hold pretty steady (it's how I run it at home).
        >
        > K

        ok ... so the old way to start PCGen was with the .BAT file and command
        line options for memory limits -- what is the preferred method to start
        with modified options now, with the .EXE?

        (or, what are the command-line options for the .EXE?)

        --
        Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
        ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
        Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
        Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
      • Judi Dionne
        I am using 5.17.3 on an iMac G5 with OSX 10.5.8. The reason why I asked is because whenever I run PCGen and have any other programs open, PCGen then takes
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 29, 2010
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          I am using 5.17.3 on an iMac G5 with OSX 10.5.8.

          The reason why I asked is because whenever I run PCGen and have any
          other programs open, PCGen then takes forever to process. It took a
          half hour yesterday to render a character sheet for printing.

          Judi Dionne
          judith.m.dionne@...



          On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:56 PM, James Dempsey wrote:

          > Hi Judi,
          >
          > On 29/06/2010 6:15 AM Judi Dionne wrote
          > > Does PCGen run into any problems if you increase the memory size to
          > > greater than the readme notes indicate? After loading all the
          > > datasets, the program runs very slowly - it's taken me all afternoon
          > > to do adjustments and print out an updated character sheet.
          > >
          > >
          > The main limitations are what the operating system can provide. Giving
          > PCGen so much memory that you are using swap space can make it slower.
          > Also at a certain size the operating system will refuse to give PCGen
          > the memory and thus it will not start up.
          >
          > When choosing which sources to load, it is best to be conservative
          > though -we ship a *lot* of sources and most people will only need a
          > subset of these. Also be careful not to load sources twice (e.g.
          > loading
          > 3.5 RSRD - Campaign Set - Core Book I and 3.5 RSRD Basic both load the
          > basic rules). We have made that harder in the 5.16 line but it can
          > still
          > be done using options like load sources with PCs. Having multiple
          > copies
          > of the same rules will slow the system down and may result in
          > incorrect
          > calculations.
          >
          > Out of interest - what version of PCGen are you using and what
          > operating
          > system?
          >
          > Cheers,
          > James Dempsey
          > PCGen Code SB
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Martijn Verburg
          Hi Saxum, ... I honestly don t know! Anyone else? K [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 7, 2010
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            Hi Saxum,


            > On 29/06/2010 08:27, Martijn Verburg wrote:
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > actually, I am also intrigued by the possible range of answers, as the
            > >> numbers suggested for running PCGen date back into history ... ranges of
            > >> 64MB to 256MB ... I am running Windows 64-bit, with 4GB, and likely will
            > >> upgrade to 8GB at some point (it makes avoids paging when loading silly
            > >> numbers of very large multi-layer raster images into Photoshop...)
            > >>
            > >> So ... what happens if you let PCGen use, say, 2GB ... does it build up
            > >> 2GB of heap and then throw itself into a paroxysm of garbage collection?
            > >>
            > > PCGen has needed increasing memory over the years due to the increasing
            > size
            > > of data and the number of data sets and characters people tend to load.
            > > It's also fair to say that our internal storage structures haven't always
            > > been the most efficient. We're already starting to see improvements in
            > the
            > > 5.17.x Alpha releases although performance isn't the major issue we're
            > > tackling this iteration.
            > >
            > > If you give PCGen 2GB and load up some characters/data sets it'll tend to
            > > hold pretty steady (it's how I run it at home).
            > >
            > > K
            >
            > ok ... so the old way to start PCGen was with the .BAT file and command
            > line options for memory limits -- what is the preferred method to start
            > with modified options now, with the .EXE?
            >
            > (or, what are the command-line options for the .EXE?)
            >

            I honestly don't know! Anyone else?

            K


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martijn Verburg
            Hi Judi, I d give it more memory in that case. K
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 7, 2010
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              Hi Judi,

              I'd give it more memory in that case.

              K

              On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Judi Dionne <judith.m.dionne@...> wrote:
              > I am using 5.17.3 on an iMac G5 with OSX 10.5.8.
              >
              > The reason why I asked is because whenever I run PCGen and have any
              > other programs open, PCGen then takes forever to process.  It took a
              > half hour yesterday to render a character sheet for printing.
              >
              > Judi Dionne
              > judith.m.dionne@...
              >
              >
              >
              > On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:56 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
              >
              >> Hi Judi,
              >>
              >> On 29/06/2010 6:15 AM Judi Dionne wrote
              >> > Does PCGen run into any problems if you increase the memory size to
              >> > greater than the readme notes indicate? After loading all the
              >> > datasets, the program runs very slowly - it's taken me all afternoon
              >> > to do adjustments and print out an updated character sheet.
              >> >
              >> >
              >> The main limitations are what the operating system can provide. Giving
              >> PCGen so much memory that you are using swap space can make it slower.
              >> Also at a certain size the operating system will refuse to give PCGen
              >> the memory and thus it will not start up.
              >>
              >> When choosing which sources to load, it is best to be conservative
              >> though -we ship a *lot* of sources and most people will only need a
              >> subset of these. Also be careful not to load sources twice (e.g.
              >> loading
              >> 3.5 RSRD - Campaign Set - Core Book I and 3.5 RSRD Basic both load the
              >> basic rules). We have made that harder in the 5.16 line but it can
              >> still
              >> be done using options like load sources with PCs. Having multiple
              >> copies
              >> of the same rules will slow the system down and may result in
              >> incorrect
              >> calculations.
              >>
              >> Out of interest - what version of PCGen are you using and what
              >> operating
              >> system?
              >>
              >> Cheers,
              >> James Dempsey
              >> PCGen Code SB
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              >
              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >
              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > (for new official data source development)
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • James Dempsey
              Hi, On 7/07/2010 7:57 PM Martijn Verburg wrote ... The exe is locked to specific settings, which should be enough for most situations. If you want to run with
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 7, 2010
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                Hi,

                On 7/07/2010 7:57 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
                > Hi Saxum,
                >
                >
                >
                >> On 29/06/2010 08:27, Martijn Verburg wrote:
                >>
                >>> Hi all,
                >>>
                >>> actually, I am also intrigued by the possible range of answers, as the
                >>>
                >>>> numbers suggested for running PCGen date back into history ... ranges of
                >>>> 64MB to 256MB ... I am running Windows 64-bit, with 4GB, and likely will
                >>>> upgrade to 8GB at some point (it makes avoids paging when loading silly
                >>>> numbers of very large multi-layer raster images into Photoshop...)
                >>>>
                >>>> So ... what happens if you let PCGen use, say, 2GB ... does it build up
                >>>> 2GB of heap and then throw itself into a paroxysm of garbage collection?
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>> PCGen has needed increasing memory over the years due to the increasing
                >>>
                >> size
                >>
                >>> of data and the number of data sets and characters people tend to load.
                >>> It's also fair to say that our internal storage structures haven't always
                >>> been the most efficient. We're already starting to see improvements in
                >>>
                >> the
                >>
                >>> 5.17.x Alpha releases although performance isn't the major issue we're
                >>> tackling this iteration.
                >>>
                >>> If you give PCGen 2GB and load up some characters/data sets it'll tend to
                >>> hold pretty steady (it's how I run it at home).
                >>>
                >>> K
                >>>
                >> ok ... so the old way to start PCGen was with the .BAT file and command
                >> line options for memory limits -- what is the preferred method to start
                >> with modified options now, with the .EXE?
                >>
                >> (or, what are the command-line options for the .EXE?)
                >>
                >>
                >
                > I honestly don't know! Anyone else?
                >
                >
                The exe is locked to specific settings, which should be enough for most
                situations. If you want to run with more memory, the best/simplest
                option is to update the low mem bat file to have more memory - not so
                low mem any more :)

                Cheers,
                James.
              • James Dempsey
                Hi, You may also want to check the options you have set. The auto create equipment one is known to cause slow downs. Also I would open the debug console
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 7, 2010
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                  Hi,

                  You may also want to check the options you have set. The auto create
                  equipment one is known to cause slow downs. Also I would open the debug
                  console (leaving the logging level unchanged) and note if you see any
                  error messages, particularly when an action is taking a long time to
                  respond.

                  I'm also very interested to hear that 5.17.3 is slow - others have
                  reported it to be significantly faster, so I'd like to track down if
                  there is an issue there.

                  Cheers,
                  James.

                  On 7/07/2010 7:57 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
                  > Hi Judi,
                  >
                  > I'd give it more memory in that case.
                  >
                  > K
                  >
                  > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Judi Dionne <judith.m.dionne@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> I am using 5.17.3 on an iMac G5 with OSX 10.5.8.
                  >>
                  >> The reason why I asked is because whenever I run PCGen and have any
                  >> other programs open, PCGen then takes forever to process. It took a
                  >> half hour yesterday to render a character sheet for printing.
                  >>
                  >> Judi Dionne
                  >> judith.m.dionne@...
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:56 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>> Hi Judi,
                  >>>
                  >>> On 29/06/2010 6:15 AM Judi Dionne wrote
                  >>>
                  >>>> Does PCGen run into any problems if you increase the memory size to
                  >>>> greater than the readme notes indicate? After loading all the
                  >>>> datasets, the program runs very slowly - it's taken me all afternoon
                  >>>> to do adjustments and print out an updated character sheet.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>> The main limitations are what the operating system can provide. Giving
                  >>> PCGen so much memory that you are using swap space can make it slower.
                  >>> Also at a certain size the operating system will refuse to give PCGen
                  >>> the memory and thus it will not start up.
                  >>>
                  >>> When choosing which sources to load, it is best to be conservative
                  >>> though -we ship a *lot* of sources and most people will only need a
                  >>> subset of these. Also be careful not to load sources twice (e.g.
                  >>> loading
                  >>> 3.5 RSRD - Campaign Set - Core Book I and 3.5 RSRD Basic both load the
                  >>> basic rules). We have made that harder in the 5.16 line but it can
                  >>> still
                  >>> be done using options like load sources with PCs. Having multiple
                  >>> copies
                  >>> of the same rules will slow the system down and may result in
                  >>> incorrect
                  >>> calculations.
                  >>>
                  >>> Out of interest - what version of PCGen are you using and what
                  >>> operating
                  >>> system?
                  >>>
                  >>> Cheers,
                  >>> James Dempsey
                  >>> PCGen Code SB
                  >>>
                • joxtur
                  Java under a 32 bit OS has a limit on the amount of memory it can be given, I believe it s 2048. If you don t specifically have an OS that says 64 in the name
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 8, 2010
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                    Java under a 32 bit OS has a limit on the amount of memory it can be given, I believe it's 2048.

                    If you don't specifically have an OS that says 64 in the name somewhere, chances are it's a 32 bit OS.

                    If you have 4GB RAM, I'd suggest changing the .bat settings to
                    -Xmx2048m -Xms1024m

                    Xmx is the max size the process will take, Xms is the starting size. I tend to make Xms half what I set Xmx to.

                    If those still don't help, you could try adjusting the stack size, though I haven't ever done that for PCGen specifically. It's only of help if the program uses a deep stack for calculations, and even then, the performance gain is questionable.
                    -Xss512k

                    64bit OS threw those limits out the window, so you may be able to give it more memory in that case.

                    Hope this helps,
                    - Joxtur

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, James Dempsey <jdempsey@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > You may also want to check the options you have set. The auto create
                    > equipment one is known to cause slow downs. Also I would open the debug
                    > console (leaving the logging level unchanged) and note if you see any
                    > error messages, particularly when an action is taking a long time to
                    > respond.
                    >
                    > I'm also very interested to hear that 5.17.3 is slow - others have
                    > reported it to be significantly faster, so I'd like to track down if
                    > there is an issue there.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > James.
                    >
                    > On 7/07/2010 7:57 PM Martijn Verburg wrote
                    > > Hi Judi,
                    > >
                    > > I'd give it more memory in that case.
                    > >
                    > > K
                    > >
                    > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Judi Dionne <judith.m.dionne@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> I am using 5.17.3 on an iMac G5 with OSX 10.5.8.
                    > >>
                    > >> The reason why I asked is because whenever I run PCGen and have any
                    > >> other programs open, PCGen then takes forever to process. It took a
                    > >> half hour yesterday to render a character sheet for printing.
                    > >>
                    > >> Judi Dionne
                    > >> judith.m.dionne@...
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:56 PM, James Dempsey wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>> Hi Judi,
                    > >>>
                    > >>> On 29/06/2010 6:15 AM Judi Dionne wrote
                    > >>>
                    > >>>> Does PCGen run into any problems if you increase the memory size to
                    > >>>> greater than the readme notes indicate? After loading all the
                    > >>>> datasets, the program runs very slowly - it's taken me all afternoon
                    > >>>> to do adjustments and print out an updated character sheet.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>> The main limitations are what the operating system can provide. Giving
                    > >>> PCGen so much memory that you are using swap space can make it slower.
                    > >>> Also at a certain size the operating system will refuse to give PCGen
                    > >>> the memory and thus it will not start up.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> When choosing which sources to load, it is best to be conservative
                    > >>> though -we ship a *lot* of sources and most people will only need a
                    > >>> subset of these. Also be careful not to load sources twice (e.g.
                    > >>> loading
                    > >>> 3.5 RSRD - Campaign Set - Core Book I and 3.5 RSRD Basic both load the
                    > >>> basic rules). We have made that harder in the 5.16 line but it can
                    > >>> still
                    > >>> be done using options like load sources with PCs. Having multiple
                    > >>> copies
                    > >>> of the same rules will slow the system down and may result in
                    > >>> incorrect
                    > >>> calculations.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Out of interest - what version of PCGen are you using and what
                    > >>> operating
                    > >>> system?
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Cheers,
                    > >>> James Dempsey
                    > >>> PCGen Code SB
                    > >>>
                    >
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