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UI Discussion of Inventory Tab

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Hi Folks, I ve posted the UI Discussion along with the Mock up of the new Inventory Pre-discussion. http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Inventory Enjoy. --
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 26, 2010
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      Hi Folks,

      I've posted the UI Discussion along with the Mock up of the new
      Inventory Pre-discussion.

      http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Inventory

      Enjoy.

      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martijn Verburg
      Hi All, This to me this is a much nicer version than what we currently have. I couldn t quite follow the discussion, is there already a bunch of stuff that
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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        Hi All,

        This to me this is a much nicer version than what we currently have. I
        couldn't quite follow the discussion, is there already a bunch of stuff that
        John is going to work on and get back to us with another version, or should
        we be giving feedback on this one?

        K

        On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi Folks,
        >
        > I've posted the UI Discussion along with the Mock up of the new
        > Inventory Pre-discussion.
        >
        > http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Inventory
        >
        > Enjoy.
        >
        > --
        > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        > Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
        > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        > Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew Maitland
        Hi, He s working on a bunch of items from that discussion. Sorry, playing recorder and responding at the same time isn t the easiest. We should have a newer
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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          Hi,


          He's working on a bunch of items from that discussion. Sorry, playing
          recorder and responding at the same time isn't the easiest.

          We should have a newer version July 7th or so from John.

          On 6/27/2010 1:19 AM, Martijn Verburg wrote:
          > Hi All,
          >
          > This to me this is a much nicer version than what we currently have. I
          > couldn't quite follow the discussion, is there already a bunch of stuff that
          > John is going to work on and get back to us with another version, or should
          > we be giving feedback on this one?
          >
          > K
          >
          > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...>wrote:
          >
          >
          >>
          >> Hi Folks,
          >>
          >> I've posted the UI Discussion along with the Mock up of the new
          >> Inventory Pre-discussion.
          >>
          >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Inventory
          >>
          >> Enjoy.
          >>
          >> --
          >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
          >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >
          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > (for new official data source development)
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Eddy Anthony
          Hi all, Since we are discussing the inventory UI I d like to repeat a proposal that was made some time ago, it didn t get much traction at the time but I ve
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi all,
            Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
            that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time but
            I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and changes
            the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new thread. If
            adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS overhaul
            as well (at least for the weapon blocks).

            Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
            weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may have
            multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full attack/two
            weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.

            The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is under the
            assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands, and then
            we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a variety
            of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
            carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for different
            configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they have
            limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple equip
            sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the weapon
            applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.

            The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead build
            attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can combine
            and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with any
            weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can create custom
            sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
            abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his disposal. For
            example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build sequences
            for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a standard
            attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-weapon
            fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short since it
            only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type and
            options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.

            It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without actually
            removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch which
            output to use. Thoughts?
            --
            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
            ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
          • Terry Milnes
            I think this is a great idea! Reason is I have been using PC-Gen for like a year now and until just yesterday I did not understand how to read the weapon
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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              I think this is a great idea! Reason is I have been using PC-Gen for like a
              year now and until just yesterday I did not understand how to read the
              weapon block output(not a manual reader). This would allow me to logically
              layout my attacks and reconcile it to the VTT I use to play.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ainvar G
              +1 I don t know how it would be done and have not had a chance to look at the proposal yet, but Eddy s suggestion definitely deserves consideration.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                +1

                I don't know how it would be done and have not had a chance to look at the proposal yet, but Eddy's suggestion definitely deserves consideration. Considering the number of options that a character might have, it could almost warrant a page of its own on an character sheet, much like the spellbooks -- kind of like it is the fighter's spellbook.

                I don't know that the current blocks on the front page of a character sheet need to be changed, but the idea of a page showing the combat options -- combat expertise, power attack, two-weapon fighting with various choices for weapons -- that's golden.




                ________________________________
                From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 11:08:24 AM
                Subject: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of Inventory Tab)


                Hi all,
                Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time but
                I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and changes
                the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new thread. If
                adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS overhaul
                as well (at least for the weapon blocks).

                Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may have
                multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full attack/two
                weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.

                The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is under the
                assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands, and then
                we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a variety
                of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for different
                configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they have
                limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple equip
                sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the weapon
                applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.

                The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead build
                attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can combine
                and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with any
                weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can create custom
                sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his disposal. For
                example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build sequences
                for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a standard
                attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-weapon
                fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short since it
                only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type and
                options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.

                It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without actually
                removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch which
                output to use. Thoughts?
                --
                ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Judi Dionne
                Ditto what Ainvar said. Couldn t put it better myself. Judi Dionne judith.m.dionne@gmail.com ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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                  Ditto what Ainvar said. Couldn't put it better myself.

                  Judi Dionne
                  judith.m.dionne@...



                  On Jun 27, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Ainvar G wrote:

                  > +1
                  >
                  > I don't know how it would be done and have not had a chance to look
                  > at the proposal yet, but Eddy's suggestion definitely deserves
                  > consideration. Considering the number of options that a character
                  > might have, it could almost warrant a page of its own on an
                  > character sheet, much like the spellbooks -- kind of like it is the
                  > fighter's spellbook.
                  >
                  > I don't know that the current blocks on the front page of a
                  > character sheet need to be changed, but the idea of a page showing
                  > the combat options -- combat expertise, power attack, two-weapon
                  > fighting with various choices for weapons -- that's golden.
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                  > To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 11:08:24 AM
                  > Subject: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of
                  > Inventory Tab)
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  > Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                  > that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time
                  > but
                  > I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and
                  > changes
                  > the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new
                  > thread. If
                  > adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS
                  > overhaul
                  > as well (at least for the weapon blocks).
                  >
                  > Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                  > weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may
                  > have
                  > multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full
                  > attack/two
                  > weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.
                  >
                  > The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is
                  > under the
                  > assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands,
                  > and then
                  > we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a
                  > variety
                  > of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                  > carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for
                  > different
                  > configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they
                  > have
                  > limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple
                  > equip
                  > sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the
                  > weapon
                  > applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.
                  >
                  > The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead
                  > build
                  > attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can
                  > combine
                  > and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with
                  > any
                  > weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can
                  > create custom
                  > sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                  > abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his
                  > disposal. For
                  > example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build
                  > sequences
                  > for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a
                  > standard
                  > attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-
                  > weapon
                  > fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short
                  > since it
                  > only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type
                  > and
                  > options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.
                  >
                  > It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without
                  > actually
                  > removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch
                  > which
                  > output to use. Thoughts?
                  > --
                  > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                  > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                  > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Andrew Maitland
                  Eddy, For what it s worth - I d like to add my voice to this; Yahoo Mail from the web wasn t letting me reply earlier. Great idea, now will we be able to
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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                    Eddy,

                    For what it's worth - I'd like to add my voice to this; Yahoo Mail from
                    the web wasn't letting me reply earlier.

                    Great idea, now will we be able to squeeze this in for 6.0 or 6.2...???


                    On 6/27/2010 4:27 PM, Judi Dionne wrote:
                    > Ditto what Ainvar said. Couldn't put it better myself.
                    >
                    > Judi Dionne
                    > judith.m.dionne@...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Jun 27, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Ainvar G wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >> +1
                    >>
                    >> I don't know how it would be done and have not had a chance to look
                    >> at the proposal yet, but Eddy's suggestion definitely deserves
                    >> consideration. Considering the number of options that a character
                    >> might have, it could almost warrant a page of its own on an
                    >> character sheet, much like the spellbooks -- kind of like it is the
                    >> fighter's spellbook.
                    >>
                    >> I don't know that the current blocks on the front page of a
                    >> character sheet need to be changed, but the idea of a page showing
                    >> the combat options -- combat expertise, power attack, two-weapon
                    >> fighting with various choices for weapons -- that's golden.
                    >>
                    >> ________________________________
                    >> From: Eddy Anthony<eddyba@...>
                    >> To: PCGen Groups<pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 11:08:24 AM
                    >> Subject: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of
                    >> Inventory Tab)
                    >>
                    >> Hi all,
                    >> Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                    >> that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time
                    >> but
                    >> I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and
                    >> changes
                    >> the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new
                    >> thread. If
                    >> adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS
                    >> overhaul
                    >> as well (at least for the weapon blocks).
                    >>
                    >> Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                    >> weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may
                    >> have
                    >> multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full
                    >> attack/two
                    >> weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.
                    >>
                    >> The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is
                    >> under the
                    >> assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands,
                    >> and then
                    >> we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a
                    >> variety
                    >> of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                    >> carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for
                    >> different
                    >> configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they
                    >> have
                    >> limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple
                    >> equip
                    >> sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the
                    >> weapon
                    >> applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.
                    >>
                    >> The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead
                    >> build
                    >> attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can
                    >> combine
                    >> and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with
                    >> any
                    >> weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can
                    >> create custom
                    >> sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                    >> abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his
                    >> disposal. For
                    >> example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build
                    >> sequences
                    >> for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a
                    >> standard
                    >> attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-
                    >> weapon
                    >> fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short
                    >> since it
                    >> only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type
                    >> and
                    >> options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.
                    >>
                    >> It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without
                    >> actually
                    >> removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch
                    >> which
                    >> output to use. Thoughts?
                    >> --
                    >> ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                    >> ~ PCGen Data, Docs& Tracker Chimp
                    >> ~ Outputsheet Tamarin& Mac build guru
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Related Lists
                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                    > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                    > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                    >
                    > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    >
                    > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > (for new official data source development)
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                    Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                    Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eddy Anthony
                    ... First things first, we ll need to determine if the idea has legs, if it does then there will be the process of developing the spec. After that the coders
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 27, 2010
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                      Andrew Maitland scribed:

                      > Great idea, now will we be able to squeeze this in for 6.0 or 6.2...???

                      First things first, we'll need to determine if the idea has legs, if it does
                      then there will be the process of developing the spec. After that the coders
                      can determine the timeline, without a spec they're just guessing and there's
                      a lot of other interesting features to be coded ahead of it anyway.
                      --
                      ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                      ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                      ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                    • Joe Medica
                      Eddy, This sounds a lot like work-flows or processes. Great idea! I know it was always confusing and frustrating to have only one option equipped. If you
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 28, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Eddy,

                        This sounds a lot like work-flows or processes. Great idea! I know it was always confusing and frustrating to have only one option equipped. If you set the UI up to allow the User to map out the "process" they see their character taking, then they would be able to set up all the variables, choosing from some kind of pick list as they define the actions. The list would need to be modified, so that conflicting options are identified and paths based on these options are eliminated post-choice. This is a great idea. I look forward to more discussion here on it.



                        Joe Medica

                        Yahoo: cellowyn2
                        AOL IM: JoeMedica1031




                        ________________________________
                        From: Ainvar G <ainvarg@...>
                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 2:48:20 PM
                        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of Inventory Tab)


                        +1

                        I don't know how it would be done and have not had a chance to look at the proposal yet, but Eddy's suggestion definitely deserves consideration. Considering the number of options that a character might have, it could almost warrant a page of its own on an character sheet, much like the spellbooks -- kind of like it is the fighter's spellbook.

                        I don't know that the current blocks on the front page of a character sheet need to be changed, but the idea of a page showing the combat options -- combat expertise, power attack, two-weapon fighting with various choices for weapons -- that's golden.

                        ________________________________
                        From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                        To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sun, June 27, 2010 11:08:24 AM
                        Subject: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of Inventory Tab)

                        Hi all,
                        Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                        that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time but
                        I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and changes
                        the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new thread. If
                        adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS overhaul
                        as well (at least for the weapon blocks).

                        Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                        weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may have
                        multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full attack/two
                        weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.

                        The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is under the
                        assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands, and then
                        we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a variety
                        of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                        carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for different
                        configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they have
                        limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple equip
                        sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the weapon
                        applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.

                        The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead build
                        attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can combine
                        and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with any
                        weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can create custom
                        sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                        abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his disposal. For
                        example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build sequences
                        for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a standard
                        attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-weapon
                        fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short since it
                        only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type and
                        options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.

                        It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without actually
                        removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch which
                        output to use. Thoughts?
                        --
                        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                        ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                        ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Keith Coon
                        I really like this idea. I ve had a fair amount of problems getting PCGen to properly display my attack options and this sounds like a good solution. Keith
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 28, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I really like this idea. I've had a fair amount of problems getting
                          PCGen to properly display my attack options and this sounds like a
                          good solution.

                          Keith

                          On Jun 27, 2010, at 9:08 AM, Eddy Anthony wrote:

                          > Hi all,
                          > Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                          > that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time
                          > but
                          > I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and
                          > changes
                          > the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new
                          > thread. If
                          > adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS
                          > overhaul
                          > as well (at least for the weapon blocks).
                          >
                          > Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                          > weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may
                          > have
                          > multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full
                          > attack/two
                          > weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.
                          >
                          > The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is
                          > under the
                          > assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands,
                          > and then
                          > we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a
                          > variety
                          > of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                          > carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for
                          > different
                          > configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they
                          > have
                          > limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple
                          > equip
                          > sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the
                          > weapon
                          > applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.
                          >
                          > The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead
                          > build
                          > attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can
                          > combine
                          > and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with
                          > any
                          > weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can
                          > create custom
                          > sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                          > abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his
                          > disposal. For
                          > example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build
                          > sequences
                          > for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a
                          > standard
                          > attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-
                          > weapon
                          > fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short
                          > since it
                          > only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type
                          > and
                          > options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.
                          >
                          > It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without
                          > actually
                          > removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch
                          > which
                          > output to use. Thoughts?
                          > --
                          > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                          > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                          > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ricky
                          so do i! thumb up! Ricky (ICQ:158244154) (Y!m:iainuki) (MSN:iainuki4) ### the truth is in the eye of the beholder ###
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 28, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            so do i! thumb up!

                            Ricky
                            (ICQ:158244154) (Y!m:iainuki) (MSN:iainuki4)


                            ### the truth is in the eye of the beholder ###


                            Gozzilioni.net'>http://www.gozzilioni.net">Gozzilioni.net




                            ________________________________
                            Da: Keith Coon <kdcoon@...>
                            A: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                            Inviato: Lun 28 giugno 2010, 20:22:01
                            Oggetto: Re: [pcgen] Weapon equipping proposal (was: UI Discussion of Inventory Tab)

                            I really like this idea. I've had a fair amount of problems getting
                            PCGen to properly display my attack options and this sounds like a
                            good solution.

                            Keith

                            On Jun 27, 2010, at 9:08 AM, Eddy Anthony wrote:

                            > Hi all,
                            > Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                            > that was made some time ago, it didn't get much traction at the time
                            > but
                            > I've always thought it was a good idea. This goes beyond the UI and
                            > changes
                            > the model of how weapons are equipped so I spun this into a new
                            > thread. If
                            > adopted it would be a big change and would probably require an OS
                            > overhaul
                            > as well (at least for the weapon blocks).
                            >
                            > Characters often have multiple attack options, they may have multiple
                            > weapons they can draw. Even when wielding the same weapons they may
                            > have
                            > multiple options to choose for an attack (standard attack/full
                            > attack/two
                            > weapon fighting and other feats) which can all effect the numbers.
                            >
                            > The problem here is that the way PCGen lets you equip the PC is
                            > under the
                            > assumption of one configuration, which weapons are in which hands,
                            > and then
                            > we attempt to mitigate the problem and show the other options in a
                            > variety
                            > of ways, the OS weapon block shows all the ways a weapon can be used,
                            > carried weapons still output, you can make multiple equip sets for
                            > different
                            > configurations. These features do help mitigate the problem but they
                            > have
                            > limitations, you have to print multiple sheets if you have multiple
                            > equip
                            > sets, carried weapons will not have any bonuses contained within the
                            > weapon
                            > applied to their numbers and the Weapon blocks can be confusing.
                            >
                            > The proposal is the change the way weapons are equipped and instead
                            > build
                            > attack sequences. An attack sequence is any set of attacks you can
                            > combine
                            > and execute in your turn, the simplest being a standard attack with
                            > any
                            > weapon you have. They way I picture the UI is some way you can
                            > create custom
                            > sequences for any combination of weapons and options including feats,
                            > abilities and temporary bonuses that the character has at his
                            > disposal. For
                            > example say I have a Barbarian wielding a greataxe, I might build
                            > sequences
                            > for a standard attack, a full attack, a full attack while raging, a
                            > standard
                            > attack while fatigued, etc. For a Ranger you build sequences for two-
                            > weapon
                            > fighting or many shot etc.. On the OS each sequence is pretty short
                            > since it
                            > only needs to display the name/description (showing the attack type
                            > and
                            > options involved) and the to-hit and damage numbers.
                            >
                            > It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without
                            > actually
                            > removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch
                            > which
                            > output to use. Thoughts?
                            > --
                            > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                            > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                            > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • dave_the_ferret
                            Greetings, This sounds great, I ve nearly always found that the weapon blocks were not always ideal - I d only want that much detail for some weapons rather
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 30, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Greetings,
                              This sounds great, I've nearly always found that the weapon blocks were not always ideal - I'd only want that much detail for some weapons rather than all.
                              Some way to tailor these for each character would be great. Though it can be handy to have all the combat options displayed, it takes up room, and I tend to have favourite combinations that are the only ones I want to refer to.

                              I.e. There may be one weapon that I want to use one or two handed, and sometimes I may use a specific offhand weapon in combination with it, but all of my other weapons would only ever get used one handed - and that one offhand weapon never gets used as a primary, so that whole 'one or two handed & off handed weapon is heavy or light' block is just wasted ink generally other than for the two or three combinations I need.
                              And at last I could do away with the throwing chart for a dagger, I've never thrown a dagger, its there on the equipment list for eating with not fighting! :-)

                              And here's another - in one of my groups, some spare weapons are actually carried around for another player (his carry weight is restrictive), so options to have the weapon blocks show or not show at all for some carried weapons (or weapons flagged as 'not carried') would be handy.
                              (hmmm, I need to add a 'container' named after another character!)

                              Taking this a step further - could the AC for that combination be included as well as hit/damage? I.e combinations such as 'buckler and two handed sword', or 'heavy shield and single handed sword' would be handy.

                              I would vote for this to be an option to use either the existing weapon block or the new style, selected *per character* (my mage couldn't care less about the weapon stats!)

                              Also, as a preference, I wouldn't want this option to use extra sheets (though perhaps as a further option...), I'd like to use it so I can tailor it and see *only* the weapon stats I need, and thus make the entire character sheet easier to use.

                              Cheers
                              Dave
                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi all,
                              > Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                              > that was made some time ago
                              SNIP...
                              >
                              > It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without actually
                              > removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch which
                              > output to use. Thoughts?
                              > --
                              > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                              > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                              > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                              >
                            • Martijn Verburg
                              Eddy, Could you please formalise this into a spec/JIRA? Thanks! K On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 2:30 PM, dave_the_ferret
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 30, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Eddy,

                                Could you please formalise this into a spec/JIRA?

                                Thanks!
                                K

                                On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 2:30 PM, dave_the_ferret <
                                ferret.griffin@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Greetings,
                                > This sounds great, I've nearly always found that the weapon blocks were not
                                > always ideal - I'd only want that much detail for some weapons rather than
                                > all.
                                > Some way to tailor these for each character would be great. Though it can
                                > be handy to have all the combat options displayed, it takes up room, and I
                                > tend to have favourite combinations that are the only ones I want to refer
                                > to.
                                >
                                > I.e. There may be one weapon that I want to use one or two handed, and
                                > sometimes I may use a specific offhand weapon in combination with it, but
                                > all of my other weapons would only ever get used one handed - and that one
                                > offhand weapon never gets used as a primary, so that whole 'one or two
                                > handed & off handed weapon is heavy or light' block is just wasted ink
                                > generally other than for the two or three combinations I need.
                                > And at last I could do away with the throwing chart for a dagger, I've
                                > never thrown a dagger, its there on the equipment list for eating with not
                                > fighting! :-)
                                >
                                > And here's another - in one of my groups, some spare weapons are actually
                                > carried around for another player (his carry weight is restrictive), so
                                > options to have the weapon blocks show or not show at all for some carried
                                > weapons (or weapons flagged as 'not carried') would be handy.
                                > (hmmm, I need to add a 'container' named after another character!)
                                >
                                > Taking this a step further - could the AC for that combination be included
                                > as well as hit/damage? I.e combinations such as 'buckler and two handed
                                > sword', or 'heavy shield and single handed sword' would be handy.
                                >
                                > I would vote for this to be an option to use either the existing weapon
                                > block or the new style, selected *per character* (my mage couldn't care less
                                > about the weapon stats!)
                                >
                                > Also, as a preference, I wouldn't want this option to use extra sheets
                                > (though perhaps as a further option...), I'd like to use it so I can tailor
                                > it and see *only* the weapon stats I need, and thus make the entire
                                > character sheet easier to use.
                                >
                                > Cheers
                                > Dave
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Eddy Anthony
                                > <eddyba@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi all,
                                > > Since we are discussing the inventory UI I'd like to repeat a proposal
                                > > that was made some time ago
                                > SNIP...
                                >
                                > >
                                > > It's probably possible to make this an additional feature without
                                > actually
                                > > removing the current equipping method and have a preference switch which
                                > > output to use. Thoughts?
                                > > --
                                > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                > > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                > > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >


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