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[pathfinder] Shadowdancer Shadow Companion - Fortitude saves

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  • Saxum Caribetum
    replacing a broken Shadow Companion (from beta) with a newly generated replacement, I notice there s still a problem: We have a 10 th level PC (Rogue 7,
    Message 1 of 9 , May 25 3:59 PM
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      replacing a broken Shadow Companion (from beta) with a newly generated
      replacement, I notice there's still a problem:

      We have a 10'th level PC (Rogue 7, ShadowDancer 3), with base saves of
      +3/+7/+3 -- these are correctly carried over to the Shadow Companion
      (PFRPG p.392), but the Fortitude Save has an Ability mod of +0.
      The Shadow is Undead, so PFB p.310, has no Con but uses Cha instead
      "when calculating ... Fortitude Saves.." (Reflex and Will saves appear
      to have correct bonus)

      (And a minor niggle - when the Shadow Companion is created, PCGen
      insists on rolling 2 D8 hit-points, presumably having given max HP for
      first HD ... but a Shadow Companion does not roll HP at all - rather it
      always uses 1/2 master's HP. PCGen does in fact do this when it comes
      to real HP.)


      PCGen 5.17.2
      Pathfinder core, bestiary, bonus bestiary, traits (web enhancement)
      Windows 7 64-bit.

      --
      Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
      ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
      Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
      Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
    • Andrew Maitland
      Hi, Yes, the Save would be my fault. Didn t catch that. Shadow Companion was copied from the Animal Companion Model... As long as the HP is coming across
      Message 2 of 9 , May 25 7:13 PM
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        Hi,

        Yes, the Save would be my fault. Didn't catch that.

        Shadow Companion was copied from the Animal Companion Model... As long
        as the HP is coming across correct then that's good. I'll see what I can
        do to correct that though.


        Data

        * Data <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA>
        * DATA-26 <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA-26>


        Shadow Companion should only have 1 HD to avoid confusing HP popup
        <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA-26>


        Data

        * Data <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA>
        * DATA-25 <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA-25>


        Fix Shadow Companion to use Correct Save for Fortitude [CHA not CON]
        <http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/DATA-25>




        On 5/25/2010 3:59 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
        > replacing a broken Shadow Companion (from beta) with a newly generated
        > replacement, I notice there's still a problem:
        >
        > We have a 10'th level PC (Rogue 7, ShadowDancer 3), with base saves of
        > +3/+7/+3 -- these are correctly carried over to the Shadow Companion
        > (PFRPG p.392), but the Fortitude Save has an Ability mod of +0.
        > The Shadow is Undead, so PFB p.310, has no Con but uses Cha instead
        > "when calculating ... Fortitude Saves.." (Reflex and Will saves appear
        > to have correct bonus)
        >
        > (And a minor niggle - when the Shadow Companion is created, PCGen
        > insists on rolling 2 D8 hit-points, presumably having given max HP for
        > first HD ... but a Shadow Companion does not roll HP at all - rather it
        > always uses 1/2 master's HP. PCGen does in fact do this when it comes
        > to real HP.)
        >
        >
        > PCGen 5.17.2
        > Pathfinder core, bestiary, bonus bestiary, traits (web enhancement)
        > Windows 7 64-bit.
        >
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
        Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew Maitland
        This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3. To fix yourself simply add |Undead   to the
        Message 3 of 9 , May 26 5:50 PM
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          This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.

          To fix yourself simply add '|Undead'  to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.

          The race is called:
          Companion (Shadow)  

          TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
          is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with. However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.



          ________________________________
          From: Saxum Caribetum <saxum.caribetum@...>
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 3:59:56 PM
          Subject: [pcgen] [pathfinder] Shadowdancer Shadow Companion - Fortitude saves

          replacing a broken Shadow Companion (from beta) with a newly generated
          replacement, I notice there's still a problem:

          We have a 10'th level PC (Rogue 7, ShadowDancer 3), with base saves of
          +3/+7/+3 -- these are correctly carried over to the Shadow Companion
          (PFRPG p.392), but the Fortitude Save has an Ability mod of +0.
          The Shadow is Undead, so PFB p.310, has no Con but uses Cha instead
          "when calculating ... Fortitude Saves.." (Reflex and Will saves appear
          to have correct bonus)

          (And a minor niggle - when the Shadow Companion is created, PCGen
          insists on rolling 2 D8 hit-points, presumably having given max HP for
          first HD ... but a Shadow Companion does not roll HP at all - rather it
          always uses 1/2 master's HP.  PCGen does in fact do this when it comes
          to real HP.)


          PCGen 5.17.2
          Pathfinder core, bestiary, bonus bestiary, traits (web enhancement)
          Windows 7 64-bit.

          --
          Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
          ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
          Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
          Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/



          ------------------------------------

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Saxum Caribetum
          ... thanks! ... PF changed the rules. From the PFSRD, http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#familiars ... no consistency - typical of DND type
          Message 4 of 9 , May 26 11:56 PM
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            On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
            > This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
            >

            thanks!
            > To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
            >
            > The race is called:
            > Companion (Shadow)
            >
            > TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
            > is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with.


            > However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
            >
            >

            PF changed the rules.
            From the PFSRD,
            http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#familiars

            > *Familiar Basics*: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the
            > familiar's kind, but with the following changes.
            >
            > /Hit Dice/: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice,
            > use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total,
            > whichever is higher.
            >
            > /Hit Points/: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not
            > including temporary hit points
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#temporary-hit-points>), rounded
            > down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
            >
            > /Attacks/: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all
            > his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#dexterity> or
            > Strength
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#strength>
            > modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee
            > attack bonus with natural weapons.
            >
            > Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.
            >
            > /Saving Throws/: For each saving throw
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#saving-throws>, use
            > either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#fortitude> +2, Reflex
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#reflex> +2, Will
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#will> +0) or the
            > master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better.
            > The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't
            > share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves.
            >
            > /Skills/: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar
            > has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that
            > type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case,
            > the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a
            > familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the
            > familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#acrobatics>, Climb
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/climb.html#climb>, Fly
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/fly.html#fly>, Perception
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perception.html#perception>, Stealth
            > <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/stealth.html#stealth>, and
            > Swim <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/swim.html#swim> as
            > class skills.
            >


            no consistency - typical of DND type games - familiars, druid
            companions, & shadow companions all have different rules with some
            overlap...

            --
            Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
            ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
            Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
            Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew Maitland
            Hi, It s the exact same wording as found in the PHB and the RSRD. In one of the WotC sanctioned Articles they actually mention that a Familiar should have Half
            Message 5 of 9 , May 27 7:27 AM
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              Hi,

              It's the exact same wording as found in the PHB and the RSRD.

              In one of the WotC sanctioned Articles they actually mention that a
              Familiar should have Half the Masters HP, or it's own if greater. There
              was some debate, but since most original familiars had 1/2 HD, it was
              unlikely any would have more HP than the Master. d4 average is 2, and a
              Wizard L1 would have 4 +/- Con Bonus.

              It's an option that should be available is all I'm thinking. As a GM who
              has given "Familiars" that had a lot more HP than their "Master" it
              would have been nice to have the Correct HP showing. Nothing like a
              "Familiar" with 108 HP and a master with only 30, and watching the HP
              drop to 15. How does that make sense?




              On 5/26/2010 11:56 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
              > On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
              >
              >> This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
              >>
              >>
              > thanks!
              >
              >> To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
              >>
              >> The race is called:
              >> Companion (Shadow)
              >>
              >> TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
              >> is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with.
              >>
              >
              >
              >> However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              > PF changed the rules.
              > From the PFSRD,
              > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/wizard.html#familiars
              >
              >
              >> *Familiar Basics*: Use the basic statistics for a creature of the
              >> familiar's kind, but with the following changes.
              >>
              >> /Hit Dice/: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice,
              >> use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total,
              >> whichever is higher.
              >>
              >> /Hit Points/: The familiar has half the master's total hit points (not
              >> including temporary hit points
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#temporary-hit-points>), rounded
              >> down, regardless of its actual Hit Dice.
              >>
              >> /Attacks/: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all
              >> his classes. Use the familiar's Dexterity
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#dexterity> or
              >> Strength
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#strength>
              >> modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee
              >> attack bonus with natural weapons.
              >>
              >> Damage equals that of a normal creature of the familiar's kind.
              >>
              >> /Saving Throws/: For each saving throw
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#saving-throws>, use
              >> either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#fortitude> +2, Reflex
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#reflex> +2, Will
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#will> +0) or the
              >> master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better.
              >> The familiar uses its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn't
              >> share any of the other bonuses that the master might have on saves.
              >>
              >> /Skills/: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar
              >> has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that
              >> type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case,
              >> the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a
              >> familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the
              >> familiar's ability to use. Familiars treat Acrobatics
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/acrobatics.html#acrobatics>, Climb
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/climb.html#climb>, Fly
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/fly.html#fly>, Perception
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/perception.html#perception>, Stealth
              >> <http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/stealth.html#stealth>, and
              >> Swim<http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/skills/swim.html#swim> as
              >> class skills.
              >>
              >>
              >
              > no consistency - typical of DND type games - familiars, druid
              > companions,& shadow companions all have different rules with some
              > overlap...
              >
              >

              --
              Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
              Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
              Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Saxum Caribetum
              ... hmm I have * removed the Shadow Companion & saved the character, quit PCGen * applied that edit, saved the edited LST file * restarted PCGen * reloaded the
              Message 6 of 9 , May 27 1:50 PM
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                On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                > This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
                >
                > To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
                >
                > The race is called:
                > Companion (Shadow)
                >
                > TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
                > is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with. However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
                >
                >

                hmm

                I have

                * removed the Shadow Companion & saved the character, quit PCGen
                * applied that edit, saved the edited LST file
                * restarted PCGen
                * reloaded the character
                * on Inventory, Resources, add a new Shadow Companion

                a quick look at Character Sheet shows 0 ability bonus for Fortitude.
                Looking in the saved PCG file for the Shadow, both the old, pre-LST-edit
                and new have

                # Character Templates
                TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Undead]
                TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Incorporeal]


                For that matter, I note that Melee combat and CMB have Ability bonus of
                +0, and a Misc bonus of +2 (the Dex value), indicating that PCGen is not
                actually "using Dex instead of Str, Cha instead of Con", but appears to
                be fudging it with a Str/Con bonus of 0, and a trait derived bonus equal
                to Dex or Cha (as appropriate) applied where specially indicated...

                Confirming this, Climb and Swim [Str based; no Con based skills] both
                show a +0 Ability bonus (and +0 Misc).
                Now, I admit that an incorporeal flying critter has little need of those
                skills, but the formula still shows up, and opens a window into PCGen's
                workings...

                --
                Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
                Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew Maitland
                Hi, Is it showing up correctly on the preview and PDF? ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                Message 7 of 9 , May 27 7:38 PM
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                  Hi,

                  Is it showing up correctly on the preview and PDF?


                  On 5/27/2010 1:50 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                  > On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                  >
                  >> This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
                  >>
                  >> To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
                  >>
                  >> The race is called:
                  >> Companion (Shadow)
                  >>
                  >> TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
                  >> is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with. However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  > hmm
                  >
                  > I have
                  >
                  > * removed the Shadow Companion& saved the character, quit PCGen
                  > * applied that edit, saved the edited LST file
                  > * restarted PCGen
                  > * reloaded the character
                  > * on Inventory, Resources, add a new Shadow Companion
                  >
                  > a quick look at Character Sheet shows 0 ability bonus for Fortitude.
                  > Looking in the saved PCG file for the Shadow, both the old, pre-LST-edit
                  > and new have
                  >
                  > # Character Templates
                  > TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Undead]
                  > TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Incorporeal]
                  >
                  >
                  > For that matter, I note that Melee combat and CMB have Ability bonus of
                  > +0, and a Misc bonus of +2 (the Dex value), indicating that PCGen is not
                  > actually "using Dex instead of Str, Cha instead of Con", but appears to
                  > be fudging it with a Str/Con bonus of 0, and a trait derived bonus equal
                  > to Dex or Cha (as appropriate) applied where specially indicated...
                  >
                  > Confirming this, Climb and Swim [Str based; no Con based skills] both
                  > show a +0 Ability bonus (and +0 Misc).
                  > Now, I admit that an incorporeal flying critter has little need of those
                  > skills, but the formula still shows up, and opens a window into PCGen's
                  > workings...
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
                  Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Saxum Caribetum
                  ... no - everything is quite consistent... I can post a PCG + PDF is that helps? (It ll be a few hours yet - I m just into work (UK time)) Does the yahoo
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 27 11:42 PM
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                    On 28/05/2010 03:38, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > Is it showing up correctly on the preview and PDF?
                    >

                    no - everything is quite consistent... I can post a PCG + PDF is that
                    helps? (It'll be a few hours yet - I'm just into work (UK time))

                    Does the yahoo mail list support attachments?

                    >
                    > On 5/27/2010 1:50 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                    >
                    >> On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>> This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
                    >>>
                    >>> To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
                    >>>
                    >>> The race is called:
                    >>> Companion (Shadow)
                    >>>
                    >>> TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
                    >>> is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with. However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> hmm
                    >>
                    >> I have
                    >>
                    >> * removed the Shadow Companion& saved the character, quit PCGen
                    >> * applied that edit, saved the edited LST file
                    >> * restarted PCGen
                    >> * reloaded the character
                    >> * on Inventory, Resources, add a new Shadow Companion
                    >>
                    >> a quick look at Character Sheet shows 0 ability bonus for Fortitude.
                    >> Looking in the saved PCG file for the Shadow, both the old, pre-LST-edit
                    >> and new have
                    >>
                    >> # Character Templates
                    >> TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Undead]
                    >> TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Incorporeal]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> For that matter, I note that Melee combat and CMB have Ability bonus of
                    >> +0, and a Misc bonus of +2 (the Dex value), indicating that PCGen is not
                    >> actually "using Dex instead of Str, Cha instead of Con", but appears to
                    >> be fudging it with a Str/Con bonus of 0, and a trait derived bonus equal
                    >> to Dex or Cha (as appropriate) applied where specially indicated...
                    >>
                    >> Confirming this, Climb and Swim [Str based; no Con based skills] both
                    >> show a +0 Ability bonus (and +0 Misc).
                    >> Now, I admit that an incorporeal flying critter has little need of those
                    >> skills, but the formula still shows up, and opens a window into PCGen's
                    >> workings...
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >


                    --
                    Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                    ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                    Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
                    Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
                  • Andrew Maitland
                    Hi, No, the group allows uploads to our file section though. Okay, if the Template isn t working then that is a bug. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) PCGen
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 28 12:04 AM
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                      Hi,

                      No, the group allows uploads to our file section though.

                      Okay, if the Template isn't working then that is a bug.


                      On 5/27/2010 11:42 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                      > On 28/05/2010 03:38, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                      >
                      >> Hi,
                      >>
                      >> Is it showing up correctly on the preview and PDF?
                      >>
                      >>
                      > no - everything is quite consistent... I can post a PCG + PDF is that
                      > helps? (It'll be a few hours yet - I'm just into work (UK time))
                      >
                      > Does the yahoo mail list support attachments?
                      >
                      >
                      >> On 5/27/2010 1:50 PM, Saxum Caribetum wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>> On 27/05/2010 01:50, Andrew Maitland wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>> This has been fixed and will be available by the next nightly build. Or when we release 5.17.3.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> To fix yourself simply add '|Undead' to the TEMPLATE:Incorporeal on the races_companions version of the Shadow.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> The race is called:
                      >>>> Companion (Shadow)
                      >>>>
                      >>>> TEMPLATE:Incorporeal|Undead
                      >>>> is how that should be looking. Work keeps pulling me away from my machine. But I'll get the HD issue dealt with. However, it occurs to me, unless pathfinder changed the rules, that a Creature of the Familiar kind gets either Half the Master HP or it's own HP (whichever is better). This is something we should look at correcting.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>> hmm
                      >>>
                      >>> I have
                      >>>
                      >>> * removed the Shadow Companion& saved the character, quit PCGen
                      >>> * applied that edit, saved the edited LST file
                      >>> * restarted PCGen
                      >>> * reloaded the character
                      >>> * on Inventory, Resources, add a new Shadow Companion
                      >>>
                      >>> a quick look at Character Sheet shows 0 ability bonus for Fortitude.
                      >>> Looking in the saved PCG file for the Shadow, both the old, pre-LST-edit
                      >>> and new have
                      >>>
                      >>> # Character Templates
                      >>> TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Undead]
                      >>> TEMPLATESAPPLIED:[NAME:Incorporeal]
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> For that matter, I note that Melee combat and CMB have Ability bonus of
                      >>> +0, and a Misc bonus of +2 (the Dex value), indicating that PCGen is not
                      >>> actually "using Dex instead of Str, Cha instead of Con", but appears to
                      >>> be fudging it with a Str/Con bonus of 0, and a trait derived bonus equal
                      >>> to Dex or Cha (as appropriate) applied where specially indicated...
                      >>>
                      >>> Confirming this, Climb and Swim [Str based; no Con based skills] both
                      >>> show a +0 Ability bonus (and +0 Misc).
                      >>> Now, I admit that an incorporeal flying critter has little need of those
                      >>> skills, but the formula still shows up, and opens a window into PCGen's
                      >>> workings...
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
                      Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


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