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Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

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  • Ainvar G
    Michael s right - I had not realized the discrepancy between what PCGen said and what the PFRPG Core said. Thanks, Michael for providing this more complete
    Message 1 of 16 , May 3, 2010
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      Michael's right - I had not realized the discrepancy between what PCGen said and what the PFRPG Core said.

      Thanks, Michael for providing this more complete response -- I was still convinced there was an issue until you explained what was going on in this reply.

      AinvarG


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Michael Johnston <johnstonmr@...>
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 11:38:11 AM
      Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

      It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
      have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
      level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
      doing this just fine.

      The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
      "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
      of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
      against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
      according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
      spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
      added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

      I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
      but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

      On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hi Folks,
      >
      > I'm a little confused here -
      >
      > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
      >
      > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
      >
      > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
      > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
      > certain selection? Is this not happening?
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      >
      > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
      > > I ran into it too.
      > >
      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
      > G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >> Background:
      > >>
      > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
      > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
      > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
      > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of
      > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known
      > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
      >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I created
      > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
      > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
      > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known spells
      > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
      > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
      > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
      > >>
      > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
      > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
      > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
      > >>
      > >> AinvarG
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      >
      > >
      > > Related Lists
      > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
      > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
      > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      > > PCGen's Online Docs:
      > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
      > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
      > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
      > >
      > > PCGen List File Help:
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
      > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
      > >
      > > PCGen Experimental:
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
      > > (for new official data source development)
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
      > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      ------------------------------------

      Related Lists
      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
      PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
      PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
      PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
      PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

      PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
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      (for new official data source development)
      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Derrik H. Gilmore
      Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don t I feel like a schmuck now =-) ... Derrik Gil Gilmore Dum Spiro, Spero ... From:
      Message 2 of 16 , May 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don't I feel
        like a schmuck now =-)

        ----
        Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
        "Dum Spiro, Spero"

        -----Original Message-----
        From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Michael Johnston
        Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

        It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
        have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
        level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
        doing this just fine.

        The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
        "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
        of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
        against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
        according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
        spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
        added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

        I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
        but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

        On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Hi Folks,
        >
        > I'm a little confused here -
        >
        > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
        >
        > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
        >
        > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
        > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
        > certain selection? Is this not happening?
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        >
        > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
        > > I ran into it too.
        > >
        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
        > G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >> Background:
        > >>
        > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
        > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
        > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
        > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
        of
        > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
        Known
        > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
        >
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
        created
        > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
        > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
        > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
        spells
        > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
        > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
        > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
        > >>
        > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
        > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
        > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
        > >>
        > >> AinvarG
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        >
        > >
        > > Related Lists
        > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > > PCGen's Online Docs:
        > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
        > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        > >
        > > PCGen List File Help:
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        > >
        > > PCGen Experimental:
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > > (for new official data source development)
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
        > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        Related Lists
        PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
        http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

        PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
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        (for new official data source development)
        Yahoo! Groups Links



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      • Ainvar G
        Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck. There s at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on. I m just glad I asked instead of
        Message 3 of 16 , May 3, 2010
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          Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck. There's at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on. I'm just glad I asked instead of wondering about it or trying to "work around" the "problem".




          ________________________________
          From: Derrik H. Gilmore <dhgilmore@...>
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 8:21:51 PM
          Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG


          Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don't I feel
          like a schmuck now =-)

          ----
          Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
          "Dum Spiro, Spero"

          -----Original Message-----
          From: pcgen@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
          Michael Johnston
          Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
          To: pcgen@yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

          It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
          have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
          level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
          doing this just fine.

          The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
          "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
          of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
          against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
          according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
          spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
          added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

          I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
          but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

          On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@yahoo. com> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi Folks,
          >
          > I'm a little confused here -
          >
          > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
          >
          > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
          >
          > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
          > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
          > certain selection? Is this not happening?
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          >
          > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
          > > I ran into it too.
          > >
          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups. com <pcgen%40yahoogroup s.com>, Ainvar
          > G<ainvarg@.. .> wrote:
          > >
          > >> Background:
          > >>
          > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
          > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
          > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
          > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
          of
          > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
          Known
          > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
          >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
          created
          > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
          > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
          > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
          spells
          > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
          > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
          > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
          > >>
          > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
          > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
          > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
          > >>
          > >> AinvarG
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          >
          > >
          > > Related Lists
          > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net
          > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki. pcgen.org/
          > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki. pcgen.org/ index.php? title=Roadmap
          > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net/07_autobuild s.php
          > > PCGen's Online Docs:
          > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
          > http://pcgen. akozakis. id.au/autobuilds /download. html
          > >
          > > PCGen List File Help:
          > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ PCGenListFileHel p/
          > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          > >
          > > PCGen Experimental:
          > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pcgen_experiment al/
          > > (for new official data source development)
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
          > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
          > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------ --------- --------- ------

          Related Lists
          PCGen's release site: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net
          PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki. pcgen.org/
          PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki. pcgen.org/ index.php? title=Roadmap
          PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net/07_autobuild s.php
          PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen- test.org/ autobuilds/ pcgen-docs/ index.html
          PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
          http://pcgen. akozakis. id.au/autobuilds /download. html

          PCGen List File Help: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ PCGenListFileHel p/
          (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

          PCGen Experimental: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pcgen_experiment al/
          (for new official data source development)
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2852 - Release Date: 05/03/10
          12:27:00







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • James Dempsey
          Hi, That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too, as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any thoughts on what
          Message 4 of 16 , May 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi,

            That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
            as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
            thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
            feature request.

            Cheers,
            James Dempsey
            PCGen Code SB


            On 4 May 2010 12:45, Ainvar G <ainvarg@...> wrote:
            > Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck.  There's at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on.  I'm just glad I asked instead of wondering about it or trying to "work around" the "problem".
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Derrik H. Gilmore <dhgilmore@...>
            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 8:21:51 PM
            > Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG
            >
            >
            > Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa  - Michael is right. Don't I feel
            > like a schmuck now =-)
            >
            > ----
            > Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
            > "Dum Spiro, Spero"
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: pcgen@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
            > Michael Johnston
            > Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
            > To: pcgen@yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG
            >
            > It's working.  Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
            > have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell.   According to the book, a 6th
            > level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell.  PCGen is
            > doing this just fine.
            >
            > The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
            > "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
            > of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
            > against known spells.  For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
            > according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
            > spells.  In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
            > added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.
            >
            > I hope I haven't confused you further.  The bottom line is, it works fine
            > but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.
            >
            > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@yahoo. com> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hi Folks,
            >>
            >> I'm a little confused here -
            >>
            >> Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
            >>
            >> What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
            >>
            >> I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
            >> issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
            >> certain selection? Is this not happening?
            >>
            >> Cheers,
            >>
            >>
            >> On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
            >> > I ran into it too.
            >> >
            >> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups. com <pcgen%40yahoogroup s.com>, Ainvar
            >> G<ainvarg@.. .> wrote:
            >> >
            >> >> Background:
            >> >>
            >> >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
            >> description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
            >> of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
            >> level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
            > of
            >> spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
            > Known
            >> table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
            >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
            > created
            >> a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
            >> including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
            >> levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
            > spells
            >> + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
            >> fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
            >> selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
            >> >>
            >> >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
            >> that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
            >> spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
            >> >>
            >> >> AinvarG
          • Saxum Caribetum
            ... as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and display the Sorcerer s known spells as known+bonus , eg 5+1 ? -- Neil Taylor Creo
            Message 5 of 16 , May 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              On 04/05/2010 03:48, James Dempsey wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
              > as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
              > thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
              > feature request.
              >
              >

              as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and
              display the Sorcerer's known spells as "known+bonus", eg "5+1" ?

              --
              Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
              ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
              Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
              Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
            • Ainvar G
              +1 I think that sounds sufficient and hopefully would not involve a lot of time away from the awesome crunch that is being developed behind the scenes.
              Message 6 of 16 , May 4, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                +1

                I think that sounds sufficient and hopefully would not involve a lot of time away from the awesome crunch that is being developed behind the scenes.




                ________________________________
                From: Saxum Caribetum <saxum.caribetum@...>
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:51 AM
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG


                On 04/05/2010 03:48, James Dempsey wrote:
                > Hi,
                >
                > That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
                > as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
                > thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
                > feature request.
                >
                >

                as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and
                display the Sorcerer's known spells as "known+bonus" , eg "5+1" ?

                --
                Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                Saga site at http://www.quantal demon.co. uk/saga/
                Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/







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