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Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

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  • Michael
    I ran into it too.
    Message 1 of 16 , May 2 8:25 PM
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      I ran into it too.

      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G <ainvarg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Background:
      >
      > Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 3â€"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
      >
      >
      > Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I created a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known spells + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
      >
      > Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
      >
      > AinvarG
      >
    • Andrew Maitland
      Hi Folks, I m a little confused here - Is there an ISSUE or is it working? What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening? I can fix this in a
      Message 2 of 16 , May 3 9:30 AM
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        Hi Folks,

        I'm a little confused here -

        Is there an ISSUE or is it working?

        What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?

        I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
        issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
        certain selection? Is this not happening?

        Cheers,


        On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
        > I ran into it too.
        >
        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Ainvar G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Background:
        >>
        >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
        >>
        >>
        >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I created a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known spells + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
        >>
        >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
        >>
        >> AinvarG
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
        Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Johnston
        It s working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th level
        Message 3 of 16 , May 3 9:38 AM
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          It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
          have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
          level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
          doing this just fine.

          The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
          "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
          of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
          against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
          according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
          spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
          added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

          I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
          but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

          On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi Folks,
          >
          > I'm a little confused here -
          >
          > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
          >
          > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
          >
          > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
          > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
          > certain selection? Is this not happening?
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          >
          > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
          > > I ran into it too.
          > >
          > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
          > G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >> Background:
          > >>
          > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
          > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
          > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
          > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of
          > spells given on Table 3�EUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known
          > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
          >
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I created
          > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
          > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
          > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known spells
          > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
          > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
          > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
          > >>
          > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
          > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
          > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
          > >>
          > >> AinvarG
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          >
          > >
          > > Related Lists
          > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
          > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
          > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > > PCGen's Online Docs:
          > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
          > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
          > >
          > > PCGen List File Help:
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          > >
          > > PCGen Experimental:
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > > (for new official data source development)
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          > --
          > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
          > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
          > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Johnston
          Apologies for my typos; I m working on little sleep and without my reading glasses. Gods, I hate aging! I m only 38! ... [Non-text portions of this message
          Message 4 of 16 , May 3 9:39 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Apologies for my typos; I'm working on little sleep and without my reading
            glasses. Gods, I hate aging! I'm only 38!

            On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Michael Johnston <johnstonmr@...>wrote:

            > It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
            > have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
            > level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
            > doing this just fine.
            >
            > The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
            > "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
            > of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
            > against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
            > according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
            > spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
            > added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.
            >
            > I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
            > but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.
            >
            >
            > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hi Folks,
            >>
            >> I'm a little confused here -
            >>
            >> Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
            >>
            >> What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
            >>
            >> I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
            >> issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
            >> certain selection? Is this not happening?
            >>
            >> Cheers,
            >>
            >>
            >> On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
            >> > I ran into it too.
            >> >
            >> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
            >> G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
            >> >
            >> >> Background:
            >> >>
            >> >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
            >> description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
            >> of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
            >> level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of
            >> spells given on Table 3�EUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known
            >> table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
            >>
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
            >> created a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1
            >> sorcerer including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5
            >> more levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
            >> spells + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to
            >> select a fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his
            >> spells selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
            >> >>
            >> >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
            >> that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
            >> spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
            >> >>
            >> >> AinvarG
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> >
            >> > Related Lists
            >> > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            >> > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            >> > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            >> > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            >> > PCGen's Online Docs:
            >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            >> > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
            >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
            >> >
            >> > PCGen List File Help:
            >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            >> > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            >> >
            >> > PCGen Experimental:
            >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            >> > (for new official data source development)
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> --
            >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
            >> PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
            >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
            >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew Maitland
            Hi Folks, Thanks. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin Unique Title Quick-Silverback
            Message 5 of 16 , May 3 9:57 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Folks,

              Thanks.


              On 5/3/2010 9:39 AM, Michael Johnston wrote:
              > Apologies for my typos; I'm working on little sleep and without my reading
              > glasses. Gods, I hate aging! I'm only 38!
              >
              > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Michael Johnston<johnstonmr@...>wrote:
              >
              >
              >> It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
              >> have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
              >> level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
              >> doing this just fine.
              >>
              >> The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
              >> "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
              >> of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
              >> against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
              >> according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
              >> spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
              >> added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.
              >>
              >> I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
              >> but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.
              >>
              >>
              >> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland<drew0500@...>wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>>
              >>> Hi Folks,
              >>>
              >>> I'm a little confused here -
              >>>
              >>> Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
              >>>
              >>> What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
              >>>
              >>> I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
              >>> issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
              >>> certain selection? Is this not happening?
              >>>
              >>> Cheers,
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
              >>>
              >>>> I ran into it too.
              >>>>
              >>>> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com<pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
              >>>>
              >>> G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> Background:
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
              >>>>>
              >>> description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
              >>> of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
              >>> level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of
              >>> spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known
              >>> table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
              >>>>>
              >>> created a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1
              >>> sorcerer including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5
              >>> more levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
              >>> spells + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to
              >>> select a fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his
              >>> spells selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
              >>>
              >>>>> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
              >>>>>
              >>> that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
              >>> spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
              >>>
              >>>>> AinvarG
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> ------------------------------------
              >>>>
              >>>
              >>>> Related Lists
              >>>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              >>>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              >>>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              >>>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              >>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
              >>>>
              >>> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              >>>
              >>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
              >>>>
              >>> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              >>>
              >>>> PCGen List File Help:
              >>>>
              >>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              >>>
              >>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >>>>
              >>>> PCGen Experimental:
              >>>>
              >>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              >>>
              >>>> (for new official data source development)
              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>> --
              >>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              >>> PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
              >>> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
              >>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              >
              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >
              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > (for new official data source development)
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
              Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
              Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ainvar G
              Michael s right - I had not realized the discrepancy between what PCGen said and what the PFRPG Core said. Thanks, Michael for providing this more complete
              Message 6 of 16 , May 3 10:47 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Michael's right - I had not realized the discrepancy between what PCGen said and what the PFRPG Core said.

                Thanks, Michael for providing this more complete response -- I was still convinced there was an issue until you explained what was going on in this reply.

                AinvarG


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Michael Johnston <johnstonmr@...>
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 11:38:11 AM
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

                It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
                have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
                level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
                doing this just fine.

                The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
                "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
                of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
                against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
                according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
                spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
                added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

                I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
                but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

                On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi Folks,
                >
                > I'm a little confused here -
                >
                > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
                >
                > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
                >
                > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
                > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
                > certain selection? Is this not happening?
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                >
                > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
                > > I ran into it too.
                > >
                > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
                > G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
                > >
                > >> Background:
                > >>
                > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
                > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
                > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
                > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number of
                > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells Known
                > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
                >
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I created
                > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
                > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
                > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known spells
                > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
                > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
                > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
                > >>
                > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
                > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
                > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
                > >>
                > >> AinvarG
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                >
                > >
                > > Related Lists
                > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > > PCGen's Online Docs:
                > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                > >
                > > PCGen List File Help:
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                > >
                > > PCGen Experimental:
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > > (for new official data source development)
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
                > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Related Lists
                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                (for new official data source development)
                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Derrik H. Gilmore
                Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don t I feel like a schmuck now =-) ... Derrik Gil Gilmore Dum Spiro, Spero ... From:
                Message 7 of 16 , May 3 6:21 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don't I feel
                  like a schmuck now =-)

                  ----
                  Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
                  "Dum Spiro, Spero"

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Michael Johnston
                  Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

                  It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
                  have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
                  level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
                  doing this just fine.

                  The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
                  "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
                  of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
                  against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
                  according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
                  spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
                  added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

                  I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
                  but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

                  On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Folks,
                  >
                  > I'm a little confused here -
                  >
                  > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
                  >
                  > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
                  >
                  > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
                  > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
                  > certain selection? Is this not happening?
                  >
                  > Cheers,
                  >
                  >
                  > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
                  > > I ran into it too.
                  > >
                  > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>, Ainvar
                  > G<ainvarg@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> Background:
                  > >>
                  > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
                  > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
                  > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
                  > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
                  of
                  > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
                  Known
                  > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
                  >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
                  created
                  > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
                  > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
                  > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
                  spells
                  > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
                  > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
                  > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
                  > >>
                  > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
                  > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
                  > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
                  > >>
                  > >> AinvarG
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Related Lists
                  > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > > PCGen's Online Docs:
                  > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > >
                  > > PCGen List File Help:
                  > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > >
                  > > PCGen Experimental:
                  > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > > (for new official data source development)
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
                  > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Related Lists
                  PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                  PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                  PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  (for new official data source development)
                  Yahoo! Groups Links



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                  12:27:00
                • Ainvar G
                  Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck. There s at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on. I m just glad I asked instead of
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 3 7:45 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck. There's at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on. I'm just glad I asked instead of wondering about it or trying to "work around" the "problem".




                    ________________________________
                    From: Derrik H. Gilmore <dhgilmore@...>
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 8:21:51 PM
                    Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG


                    Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa - Michael is right. Don't I feel
                    like a schmuck now =-)

                    ----
                    Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
                    "Dum Spiro, Spero"

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: pcgen@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                    Michael Johnston
                    Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
                    To: pcgen@yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG

                    It's working. Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
                    have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell. According to the book, a 6th
                    level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell. PCGen is
                    doing this just fine.

                    The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
                    "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
                    of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
                    against known spells. For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
                    according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
                    spells. In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
                    added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.

                    I hope I haven't confused you further. The bottom line is, it works fine
                    but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.

                    On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Folks,
                    >
                    > I'm a little confused here -
                    >
                    > Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
                    >
                    > What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
                    >
                    > I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
                    > issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
                    > certain selection? Is this not happening?
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    >
                    >
                    > On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
                    > > I ran into it too.
                    > >
                    > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups. com <pcgen%40yahoogroup s.com>, Ainvar
                    > G<ainvarg@.. .> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> Background:
                    > >>
                    > >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
                    > description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
                    > of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
                    > level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
                    of
                    > spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
                    Known
                    > table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
                    >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
                    created
                    > a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
                    > including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
                    > levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
                    spells
                    > + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
                    > fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
                    > selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
                    > >>
                    > >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
                    > that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
                    > spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
                    > >>
                    > >> AinvarG
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Related Lists
                    > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net
                    > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki. pcgen.org/
                    > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki. pcgen.org/ index.php? title=Roadmap
                    > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net/07_autobuild s.php
                    > > PCGen's Online Docs:
                    > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                    > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                    > http://pcgen. akozakis. id.au/autobuilds /download. html
                    > >
                    > > PCGen List File Help:
                    > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ PCGenListFileHel p/
                    > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    > >
                    > > PCGen Experimental:
                    > http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pcgen_experiment al/
                    > > (for new official data source development)
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    > PCGen Board of Directors, Admin Silverback
                    > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                    > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------ --------- --------- ------

                    Related Lists
                    PCGen's release site: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net
                    PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki. pcgen.org/
                    PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki. pcgen.org/ index.php? title=Roadmap
                    PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen. sourceforge. net/07_autobuild s.php
                    PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen- test.org/ autobuilds/ pcgen-docs/ index.html
                    PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                    http://pcgen. akozakis. id.au/autobuilds /download. html

                    PCGen List File Help: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ PCGenListFileHel p/
                    (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                    PCGen Experimental: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pcgen_experiment al/
                    (for new official data source development)
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2852 - Release Date: 05/03/10
                    12:27:00







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • James Dempsey
                    Hi, That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too, as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any thoughts on what
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 3 7:48 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi,

                      That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
                      as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
                      thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
                      feature request.

                      Cheers,
                      James Dempsey
                      PCGen Code SB


                      On 4 May 2010 12:45, Ainvar G <ainvarg@...> wrote:
                      > Hey, no need to feel like a schmuck.  There's at least four of us (Michael included) that misunderstood what was going on.  I'm just glad I asked instead of wondering about it or trying to "work around" the "problem".
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Derrik H. Gilmore <dhgilmore@...>
                      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 8:21:51 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG
                      >
                      >
                      > Mea culpa, mea culpa -mea maxima culpa  - Michael is right. Don't I feel
                      > like a schmuck now =-)
                      >
                      > ----
                      > Derrik "Gil" Gilmore
                      > "Dum Spiro, Spero"
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: pcgen@yahoogroups. com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
                      > Michael Johnston
                      > Sent: Monday, 03 May 2010 10:38
                      > To: pcgen@yahoogroups. com
                      > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG
                      >
                      > It's working.  Ainvar is incorrect when he says a 6th level sorcerer should
                      > have 5 known spells plus his bloodline spell.   According to the book, a 6th
                      > level Sor. should have 4 known spells, plus the 1 bloodline spell.  PCGen is
                      > doing this just fine.
                      >
                      > The problem probably comes from the fact that the program bumps up the
                      > "KNown Spells" table in the spells column by one, making it APPEAR that one
                      > of your known spell slots is being used up by a spell that should not count
                      > against known spells.  For example, in PCGen, a 6th Level Sorcerer,
                      > according tot he Spells Known table in the spells tab, should have 5 known
                      > spells.  In truth, however, he ought to have 4; the 5th is the bonus spell
                      > added automatically due to the sorcerer's bloodline.
                      >
                      > I hope I haven't confused you further.  The bottom line is, it works fine
                      > but it appears not to if you don't double-check it agains the book.
                      >
                      > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Hi Folks,
                      >>
                      >> I'm a little confused here -
                      >>
                      >> Is there an ISSUE or is it working?
                      >>
                      >> What is supposed to happen and what is currently happening?
                      >>
                      >> I can fix this in a about six hours, but only if I understand what the
                      >> issue is. Are you supposed to get a free Bonus Known Spell with a
                      >> certain selection? Is this not happening?
                      >>
                      >> Cheers,
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On 5/2/2010 8:25 PM, Michael wrote:
                      >> > I ran into it too.
                      >> >
                      >> > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups. com <pcgen%40yahoogroup s.com>, Ainvar
                      >> G<ainvarg@.. .> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >> Background:
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Per the description of the sorcerer class, p 71 in the Bloodline
                      >> description, the bonus spells that are granted to the sorcerer as a result
                      >> of their bloodline do not count against their total spells known for their
                      >> level. Or, to quote the text, "These spells are in addition to the number
                      > of
                      >> spells given on Table 3âEUR"15." Table 3-15 being the Sorcerer Spells
                      > Known
                      >> table where the number of spells available at a given level are provided.
                      >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Running PCGen 5.16.2 with only Pathfinder Core dataset loaded, I
                      > created
                      >> a sorcerer level 1, made all of the selections for a level 1 sorcerer
                      >> including the draconic (copper) bloodline. Saved that, then added 5 more
                      >> levels of sorcerer. As a sixth-level sorcerer, he should have 5 known
                      > spells
                      >> + his bloodline spells (Mage Armor). PCGen is not allowing me to select a
                      >> fifth spell, returning an error that he's already got all of his spells
                      >> selected for that level (namely, 4 + Mage Armor).
                      >> >>
                      >> >> Is anyone else seeing this? I have not tested in-depth yet and thought
                      >> that surely someone would have seen and corrected this by now, so before I
                      >> spend a lot of time on it, I thought I would check here.
                      >> >>
                      >> >> AinvarG
                    • Saxum Caribetum
                      ... as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and display the Sorcerer s known spells as known+bonus , eg 5+1 ? -- Neil Taylor Creo
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 3 11:41 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 04/05/2010 03:48, James Dempsey wrote:
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
                        > as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
                        > thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
                        > feature request.
                        >
                        >

                        as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and
                        display the Sorcerer's known spells as "known+bonus", eg "5+1" ?

                        --
                        Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                        ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                        Saga site at http://www.quantal.demon.co.uk/saga/
                        Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
                      • Ainvar G
                        +1 I think that sounds sufficient and hopefully would not involve a lot of time away from the awesome crunch that is being developed behind the scenes.
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 4 6:10 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          +1

                          I think that sounds sufficient and hopefully would not involve a lot of time away from the awesome crunch that is being developed behind the scenes.




                          ________________________________
                          From: Saxum Caribetum <saxum.caribetum@...>
                          To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 1:41:51 AM
                          Subject: Re: [pcgen] Re: Bug? Spells known for sorcerers in PFRPG


                          On 04/05/2010 03:48, James Dempsey wrote:
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > That indicates to me that we need a new way of displaying things too,
                          > as the current way is doing a good job of confusing people! Any
                          > thoughts on what might work here. We can then take that on as a
                          > feature request.
                          >
                          >

                          as a compact display, take a leaf from clerics (Domain spells), and
                          display the Sorcerer's known spells as "known+bonus" , eg "5+1" ?

                          --
                          Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
                          ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
                          Saga site at http://www.quantal demon.co. uk/saga/
                          Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/







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