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Re: [pcgen] Re: Skill points not reflecting Int bonus

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Hi George, Ah, well by your works only for one specific situation and only once correctly for one character in particular definition, then yes, your kludge
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 7, 2010
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      Hi George,

      Ah, well by your 'works only for one specific situation and only once correctly for one character in particular' definition, then yes, your kludge is possible. I thought you were asking for something that would apply to a broader spectrum, like say all wizards, or something along those lines.

      However, if it is just a single character, I'd just edit the pcg file directly and save myself the time to actually have to cobble together a template (But that's just me) I figure 10 seconds vs. the minute or so, then the actual application, etc. *shrug* (And yes, the Coders are shuddering at the thought of direct editing, but in the case of getting the correct skill points, without doing contortions, it does work).

      As the lst monkey working on a very flexible and complicated system (Eclipse) I've become acutely aware of every limitation of what can be worked around, what can be kludged and what needs code work (I've got a mounting list of To Do's, We Needs, and of course the ever popular - Gee this would be nice).

      Our Skills System needs some work; the Spell Lists need work; And several other items.

      If you need a 'kludge' in the future for something specific let me know, and I can give you a few tips or ideas. However, when I'm giving advice on the lists, I try to coach it to apply to all the users (and hopefully a working solution that will benefit the community, though I must admit, some solutions tend to need repeating :P ).

      -
      Andrew (At Work) 


       



      ________________________________
      From: George <lpacdavis@...>
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 2:58:37 AM
      Subject: [pcgen] Re: Skill points not reflecting Int bonus

      Andrew,

      While I understand everything that you have said, I have to disagree.  It is still possible to kludge something together.  My definition of kludge is a one-time work-around.

      For example, if I had a 7th level wizard that was about to gain 8th level and add a point of INT that would retroactively add 7 skill ranks, I would create a template like this:

      Add 7 Skill Points to 8th Level Wizard
      VISIBLE:DISPLAY
      PRELEVEL:MAX=7
      PRECLASS:Wizard=7
      BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS=Wizard;LEVEL=8|7

      As long as you add this template prior to leveling up, the character will get an extra 7 skill ranks at 8th level.  Obviously, the class, level, and number of bonus skill points should be changed to fit the situation.

      If I had a case where the character's INT were increased by magic between level-ups, I would create a template that added the appropriate number of points to an ability category pool, and then have a single ability in that pool that worked like the PF ability used to grant bonus skill ranks for selecting favored classes.

      Cheers,

      Sir George Anonymous






      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi George,
      >
      > As one of the Data/LST Chimp here at PCGen I'd love to be the first to
      > say that is possible. However, you need to understand how the skill
      > points are set up to work in order to understand why it's *not* a simple
      > kludge. (In fact, it's not really possible in program, but I'll explain
      > in a minute).
      >
      > Each Class has a 'skill pool' that is assigned only at the precise
      > moment that class is taken for that certain level. This is hardcoded to
      > the pcg file for that character. This number is derived from the base
      > Class Skill Points plus the Intelligence Bonus plus any other racial or
      > other bonuses.
      >
      > Now, in order to even add points to a class you need a special code that
      > is designed for exactly the class you want. Which is why we are saying
      > it can't be done.
      >
      > See, herein lies the issue, not only do you need to specify class, but
      > in most cases which LEVEL to apply it too. AND here's the kicker. That
      > code doesn't work retroactively. Since the Number is assigned and
      > hardcoded to the PCG file, you can't just add the ability and have it
      > change the skills for you.
      >
      > Here's an example of how this appears in your pcg file:
      > CLASS:Cleric|SUBCLASS:None|LEVEL:14|SKILLPOOL:0|SPELLBASE:WIS|CANCASTPERDAY:6,5,5,4,4,3,3,2
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=1|HITPOINTS:8|PRESTAT:DEX=2|SKILLSGAINED:16|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=2|HITPOINTS:7|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=3|HITPOINTS:5|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=4|HITPOINTS:6|PRESTAT:WIS=1|PRESTAT:STR=4|PRESTAT:CON=-4|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=5|HITPOINTS:8|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=6|HITPOINTS:7|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=7|HITPOINTS:5|PRESTAT:CHA=1|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=8|HITPOINTS:7|PRESTAT:DEX=1|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=9|HITPOINTS:4|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=10|HITPOINTS:6|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=11|HITPOINTS:6|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=12|HITPOINTS:7|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=13|HITPOINTS:7|SKILLSGAINED:4|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      > CLASSABILITIESLEVEL:Cleric=14|HITPOINTS:8|PRESTAT:INT=1|PRESTAT:STR=1|SKILLSGAINED:5|SKILLSREMAINING:0
      >
      >
      > In essence the SIMPLIST method is to modify the skill number in the
      > skills tab. If you're feeling gutsy you can always just modify the pcg
      > file itself. Something that is recommended against, but I've done it
      > myself. Though if you edit the PCG and it breaks don't hold us
      > responsible. EDITING those files is not a sanctioned method.
      > (Okay, silly ex-claimer out of the way)
      >
      > Which is why my earlier statement about being able to do it in CDOM
      > should be possible, because CDOM will change how data is accessed/stored
      > and delivered. It's more modular and able to track such things. A little
      > birdie has even said that changes to how the pcg file will be saved are
      > coming too... *but you didn't hear it from me... *wink*
      >
      > Good changes are coming, we just need to be patient for the coders to
      > deliver them. :D
      >
      > On 3/26/2010 6:31 PM, George wrote:
      > > It seems like it should be possible to kludge something together with a template, an ability category, and an ability.
      > >
      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony<eddyba@>  wrote:
      > >   
      > >> On 3/25/10 12:38 PM, Andrew Maitland wrote:
      > >>     
      > >>> Retroactive Skill Points is not possible at this time. This is something
      > >>> that CDOM will hopefully be able to address.
      > >>>
      > >>> On 3/25/2010 8:29 AM, gjorbjond wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>       
      > >>>>>  On a related note, is it possible to retroactively add skill points to previous levels when the Int bonus increases?  In Pathfinder those skills are usually preallocated in the Int increasing magic items, but if you increase your Int with inherent bonuses or your +1/4 levels bonus you can allocate those skill points as you wish.
      > >>>>>           
      > >>>>
      > >>>>         
      > >> I'd like to add specifically that while it's not currently possible to
      > >> retroactively add skill points due to later intelligence bumps
      > >> automatically you can still manually add the missing points into the
      > >> field for each level. I believe the 'stuff to do' screen will complain
      > >> that you've spent too many skill points but it works just the same.
      > >>
      > >> --
      > >> ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      > >> ~ PCGen Data, Docs&  Tracker Chimp
      > >> ~ Outputsheet Tamarin&  Mac build guru
      > >>
      > >>     
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
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      >
      > --
      >
      > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >




      ------------------------------------

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