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RE: [pcgen] 4th edition support?

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  • Barak
    ... Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software. :( Barak
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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      > -----Original Message-----
      > Jonathan Thompson
      > Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which
      > is a completely different and more restricting license).

      Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software. :(

      Barak
    • Tir Gwaith
      There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I m assuming since they
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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        There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from
        the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I'm
        assuming since they want people to join their on-line stuff.

        The 4.0 'SRD' is just a list of object names. IIRC, it can be added
        to at any time, and if any previous product already has that name now
        included in the GSL's SRD document, the 3rd party publisher has to
        remove it, or change it to match what they use (or something like
        that).

        Tir Gwaith
        PCGen LST Chimp
      • Tir Gwaith
        ... Yep, and I need to finish reading a thread before replying. :) Tir Gwaith PCGen LST Chimp
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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          On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:44 AM, Barak <barak@...> wrote:
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> Jonathan Thompson
          >> Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which
          >> is a completely different and more restricting license).
          >
          > Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software.  :(

          Yep, and I need to finish reading a thread before replying. :)

          Tir Gwaith
          PCGen LST Chimp
        • Keith McComb
          As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the section that stated
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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            As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in
            the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the
            section that stated that if you were going to sell 4th Ed, you had to
            stop doing anything with 3.5 Ed stuff. Apparently a lot of companies
            looked at them and said, "No thanks." Hasbro shot themselves in the foot
            on that.

            Think they're still forbidding software, though.

            Keith

            Tir Gwaith wrote:
            >
            > There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from
            > the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I'm
            > assuming since they want people to join their on-line stuff.
            >
            > The 4.0 'SRD' is just a list of object names. IIRC, it can be added
            > to at any time, and if any previous product already has that name now
            > included in the GSL's SRD document, the 3rd party publisher has to
            > remove it, or change it to match what they use (or something like
            > that).
            >
            > Tir Gwaith
            > PCGen LST Chimp
            >
            >
          • Maredudd
            Hi Folks! ... You are correct Keith, the revised GSL did not remove the restriction on software. Eric Smith PR Silverback
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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              Hi Folks!

              Keith wrote:
              >
              > As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in
              > the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the
              > section that stated that if you were going to sell 4th Ed, you had to
              > stop doing anything with 3.5 Ed stuff. Apparently a lot of companies
              > looked at them and said, "No thanks." Hasbro shot themselves in the foot
              > on that.
              >
              > Think they're still forbidding software, though.

              You are correct Keith, the revised GSL did not remove the restriction on software.

              Eric Smith
              PR Silverback
            • Dave
              For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and 4th Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their Pathfinder
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and 4th
                Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their
                Pathfinder RPG and adventure path product lines.

                They have a free online Game Reference Document:
                http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

                and you can find all relevant products here:
                http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

                Best of all, it's fully supported by PCgen!

                Hope you find this useful.

                -Dave

                -----Original Message-----
                From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
                Kantner
                Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:40 PM
                To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [pcgen] 4th edition support?

                Andrew:

                I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                the 3.x OGL.

                I know people who have read the 4E books and people who have actually played
                it and based on their accounts I have absolutely no interest in playing 4E.
                I play D&D not this World of Warcr--- I mean, 4th edition nonsense!

                John

                On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Hi John,
                >
                > Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                > disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                > Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                > manner than I can muster.
                >
                >
                > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                >
                > John Kantner wrote:
                > > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                > > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that
                > it's
                > > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the
                license
                > at
                > > any time). Am I missing something?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland
                <drew0500@...<drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                > >>
                > >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                > >>
                > >> Here is the direct link
                > >>
                > >>
                >
                https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.
                1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                > >>
                > >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know
                what
                > >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                > >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                > >>
                > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                > >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                > >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                > >>
                > >>> Hey Andrew,
                > >>>
                > >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                > >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                > >>>
                > >>> Thanks
                > >>>
                > >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>> Hi Chris,
                > >>>>
                > >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for
                > it.
                > >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                > >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help
                via
                > >>>>
                > >> IM).
                > >>
                > >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                > >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                > >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                > >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen
                > can
                > >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet
                > (PDF
                > >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get
                > you
                > >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> - Andrew
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> Greetings,
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                > >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                > >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                > >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                > >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                > >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                > >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                > >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> /Chris
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> ------------------------------------
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> Related Lists
                > >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > >>>>
                > >>>>
                > >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > >>
                > >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > >>
                > >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > >>
                > >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                > >>
                > >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > >>
                > >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                > >>>>
                > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > >>
                > >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>>>>
                > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> ------------------------------------
                > >>>
                > >>> Related Lists
                > >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                > >>>
                > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > >>>
                > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                > >>>
                > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > >>
                > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                > >>>
                > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                > >>>
                > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > >>
                > >>> (for new official data source development)
                > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                7, 2009


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Related Lists
                PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                (for new official data source development)
                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Jonathan Thompson
                And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form, and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft. ... -- Jonathan M.
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                  And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                  and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.

                  On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Dave <countbuggula@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and
                  > 4th
                  > Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their
                  > Pathfinder RPG and adventure path product lines.
                  >
                  > They have a free online Game Reference Document:
                  > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
                  >
                  > and you can find all relevant products here:
                  > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG
                  >
                  > Best of all, it's fully supported by PCgen!
                  >
                  > Hope you find this useful.
                  >
                  > -Dave
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                  > pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of John
                  > Kantner
                  > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:40 PM
                  > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [pcgen] 4th edition support?
                  >
                  > Andrew:
                  >
                  > I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                  > relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                  > 4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                  > the 3.x OGL.
                  >
                  > I know people who have read the 4E books and people who have actually
                  > played
                  > it and based on their accounts I have absolutely no interest in playing 4E.
                  > I play D&D not this World of Warcr--- I mean, 4th edition nonsense!
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...<drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi John,
                  > >
                  > > Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                  > > disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                  > > Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                  > > manner than I can muster.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  > > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                  > > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  > >
                  > > John Kantner wrote:
                  > > > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                  > > > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but
                  > that
                  > > it's
                  > > > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the
                  > license
                  > > at
                  > > > any time). Am I missing something?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland
                  > <drew0500@... <drew0500%40yahoo.com><drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Here is the direct link
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > >
                  >
                  > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.
                  > 1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know
                  > what
                  > > >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                  > > >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  > > >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                  > > >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  > > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> Hey Andrew,
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                  > > >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> Thanks
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>> Hi Chris,
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for
                  > > it.
                  > > >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                  > > >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help
                  > via
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> IM).
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                  > > >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                  > > >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                  > > >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen
                  > > can
                  > > >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet
                  > > (PDF
                  > > >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get
                  > > you
                  > > >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>> - Andrew
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> Greetings,
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                  > > >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                  > > >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                  > > >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                  > > >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                  > > >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                  > > >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                  > > >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> /Chris
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>> ------------------------------------
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>> Related Lists
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                  > > >>>>
                  > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > > >>
                  > > >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                  > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>>>>
                  > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> ------------------------------------
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> Related Lists
                  > > >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > > >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > > >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > > >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                  > > >>>
                  > > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  > > >>>
                  > > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                  > > >>>
                  > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                  > > >>>
                  > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > > >>
                  > > >>> (for new official data source development)
                  > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >>>
                  > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                  > blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                  > trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                  > you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                  > bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                  > 7, 2009
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Related Lists
                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  > PCGen's Online Docs:
                  > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  >
                  > PCGen List File Help:
                  > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >
                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  > (for new official data source development)
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Jonathan M. Thompson
                  Battlefield Press, Inc (www.battlefieldpress.com) / Solar Flare Productions

                  jthompson@...
                  d20 Magazine Rack (www.d20zines.com)
                  thompsonjm@...
                  In Development: (2009) Gaslight Victorian Fantasy (OGL/Savage Worlds),
                  (2010) Fantastic World (Ubiquity), Terran Trade Authority (MGT) |
                  "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it
                  we go nowhere." - Carl Sagan


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • red_eyed_antipaladin
                  Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                    Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set exist in PCGen?

                    (I worked on the short-lived Spycraft 2.0 dataset, and I remember a significant limitation around maximum skill ranks being hardcoded, among other things.)

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                    > and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.
                  • Andrew Maitland
                    Hi, I can t answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren t as hardcoded as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                      Hi,

                      I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to change the max rank for a certain character.

                      - Andrew



                      ________________________________
                      From: red_eyed_antipaladin <alreadydamned@...>
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:11:28 PM
                      Subject: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support

                      Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set exist in PCGen?

                      (I worked on the short-lived Spycraft 2.0 dataset, and I remember a significant limitation around maximum skill ranks being hardcoded, among other things.)

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                      > and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.




                      ------------------------------------

                      Related Lists
                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                      PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
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                      (for new official data source development)
                      Yahoo! Groups Links



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Eddy Anthony
                      ... Per skill or for all skills? The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max ranks for specific skills. -- ~ Eddy Anthony
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                        Andrew Maitland scribed:

                        > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded
                        > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to
                        > change the max rank for a certain character.

                        Per skill or for all skills?

                        The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                        ranks for specific skills.
                        --
                        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                        ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                        ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                      • Andrew Maitland
                        It s global across the board. Individual skill support would either need code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around... still
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                          It's global across the board. Individual skill support would either need code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around... still doable if you really wanted it...




                          ________________________________
                          From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                          To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:26:31 PM
                          Subject: Re: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support

                          Andrew Maitland scribed:

                          > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded
                          > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to
                          > change the max rank for a certain character.

                          Per skill or for all skills?

                          The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                          ranks for specific skills.
                          --
                          ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                          ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                          ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru




                          ------------------------------------

                          Related Lists
                          PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                          PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                          PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                          PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                          PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                          PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          (for new official data source development)
                          Yahoo! Groups Links



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jonathan Thompson
                          With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support would be favorable for BPI. ... -- Jonathan M. Thompson Battlefield Press, Inc
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                            With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                            would be favorable for BPI.

                            On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > It's global across the board. Individual skill support would either need
                            > code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around...
                            > still doable if you really wanted it...
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@... <eddyba%40mindspring.com>>
                            > To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:26:31 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support
                            >
                            > Andrew Maitland scribed:
                            >
                            > > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't
                            > as hardcoded
                            > > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow
                            > you to
                            > > change the max rank for a certain character.
                            >
                            > Per skill or for all skills?
                            >
                            > The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                            > ranks for specific skills.
                            > --
                            > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                            > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                            > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Related Lists
                            > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                            > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                            > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                            > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                            > PCGen's Online Docs:
                            > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                            > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                            > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                            >
                            > PCGen List File Help:
                            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                            > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                            >
                            > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                            > (for new official data source development)
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Jonathan M. Thompson
                            Battlefield Press, Inc (www.battlefieldpress.com) / Solar Flare Productions

                            jthompson@...
                            d20 Magazine Rack (www.d20zines.com)
                            thompsonjm@...
                            In Development: (2009) Gaslight Victorian Fantasy (OGL/Savage Worlds),
                            (2010) Fantastic World (Ubiquity), Terran Trade Authority (MGT) |
                            "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it
                            we go nowhere." - Carl Sagan


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • red_eyed_antipaladin
                            Eddy, it s been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher s wishes? If the
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                              Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?

                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                              > would be favorable for BPI.
                              >
                              > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                              >
                            • red_eyed_antipaladin
                              Sorry, that should obviously have read Spycraft . The keyboard gremlins are out in force today.
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                Sorry, that should obviously have read 'Spycraft'. The keyboard gremlins are out in force today.

                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "red_eyed_antipaladin" <alreadydamned@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                > > would be favorable for BPI.
                                > >
                                > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
                                > >
                                >
                              • Eddy Anthony
                                I d prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring publishers
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                  I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                  earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                  publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                  FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                  asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                  them.

                                  I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                  dataset if one were available?

                                  Michael Swadling scribed:

                                  > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we
                                  > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If
                                  > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                  >
                                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                  >> would be favorable for BPI.

                                  --
                                  ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                  ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                  ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                • John Carrington
                                  I would definitely be interested in a Fantasy Craft data set - huge help in character generation. AJC
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 4, 2009
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                                    I would definitely be interested in a Fantasy Craft data set - huge help
                                    in character generation.

                                    AJC

                                    On 12/3/2009 10:53 PM, Eddy Anthony wrote:
                                    > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                    > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                    > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                    > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                    > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                    > them.
                                    >
                                    > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                    > dataset if one were available?
                                    >
                                    > Michael Swadling scribed
                                  • red_eyed_antipaladin
                                    Hi Eddy/Eric, Any further word on this project? Thanks, Michael
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jan 11, 2010
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                                      Hi Eddy/Eric,

                                      Any further word on this project?

                                      Thanks,

                                      Michael

                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                      > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                      > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                      > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                      > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                      > them.
                                      >
                                      > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                      > dataset if one were available?
                                      >
                                      > Michael Swadling scribed:
                                      >
                                      > > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we
                                      > > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If
                                      > > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@> wrote:
                                      > >>
                                      > >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                      > >> would be favorable for BPI.
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                      > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                      > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                      >
                                    • Hollis McCray
                                      On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, red_eyed_antipaladin ... On a related topic, has there ever been any thought as to Mutants & Masterminds support? Or would
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jan 14, 2010
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                                        On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, red_eyed_antipaladin
                                        <alreadydamned@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hi Eddy/Eric,
                                        >
                                        > Any further word on this project?

                                        On a related topic, has there ever been any thought as to Mutants &
                                        Masterminds support? Or would that require a separate program?

                                        --
                                        Hollis McCray
                                        Mutant Registration Number #US2002023904

                                        Warning: Proximity to this individual may expose you to the following RPGs:
                                        Fate: http://www.faterpg.com
                                        Mutants & Masterminds: http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com
                                        Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies: http://www.7skies.net/
                                        Please visit these websites in order to protect yourself.
                                      • Eric C Smith
                                        Hello Michael, We do not have any new information for this product. ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd) ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors ~ Documentation 2nd,
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jan 14, 2010
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                                          Hello Michael,

                                          We do not have any new information for this product.

                                          ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd)
                                          ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                          ~ Documentation 2nd, Data Gibbon
                                          ~ PL Chimp, OGL Gibbon
                                          ~ Tracker Gibbon, Website Tamarin
                                          ~ Tenacious Monkey
                                          ~ Face melioram personam

                                          On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:55 AM, red_eyed_antipaladin wrote:

                                          > Hi Eddy/Eric,
                                          >
                                          > Any further word on this project?
                                          >
                                          > Thanks,
                                          >
                                          > Michael
                                          >
                                          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I
                                          > hope we have
                                          > > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                          > > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                          > > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released
                                          > but I've
                                          > > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check
                                          > in with
                                          > > them.
                                          > >
                                          > > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a
                                          > FantasyCraft
                                          > > dataset if one were available?
                                          > >
                                          > > Michael Swadling scribed:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was
                                          > the reason we
                                          > > > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the
                                          > publisher's wishes? If
                                          > > > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then
                                          > FC support
                                          > > >> would be favorable for BPI.
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                          > > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                          > > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                          >
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