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4th edition support?

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  • Chris Ellerby
    Greetings, I ve been searching for a few hours now, and have not had any luck, so I am turning to this mailing list. I apologize if this question has been
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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      Greetings,

      I've been searching for a few hours now, and have not had any luck, so I am turning to this mailing list. I apologize if this question has been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly posted somewhere that I have been unable to find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)

      The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
      "Supports d20 based Game Systems including D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."

      So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?

      I've downloaded the latest data files, imported them, searched the wiki, scoured sourceforge the site, plundered google... and yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.

      Thanks in advance for any help, and once again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!

      /Chris
    • Andrew Maitland
      Hi Chris, PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it. However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation, these
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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        Hi Chris,

        PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
        However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
        these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via IM).

        Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
        edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
        Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
        to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
        and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
        and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.

        If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

        On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
        started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.

        - Andrew


        Chris Ellerby wrote:
        > Greetings,
        >
        > I've been searching for a few hours now, and have not had any luck, so I am turning to this mailing list. I apologize if this question has been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly posted somewhere that I have been unable to find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
        >
        > The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
        > "Supports d20 based Game Systems including D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
        >
        > So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
        >
        > I've downloaded the latest data files, imported them, searched the wiki, scoured sourceforge the site, plundered google... and yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
        >
        > Thanks in advance for any help, and once again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
        >
        > /Chris
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Related Lists
        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        >
        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        >
        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > (for new official data source development)
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Chris Ellerby
        Andrew, Thanks for that information. I was not aware that WotC was taking that approach with 4th gen. That is rather depressing... Especially considering
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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          Andrew,

          Thanks for that information. I was not aware that WotC was taking that
          approach with 4th gen. That is rather depressing... Especially considering
          that their subscription based player manager does not run on Mac and appears
          to be functionally limited when compared to PCGen.

          I barely have enough time to play D&D these days, let alone attempt to
          maintain my own local database. (That, and I would not know where to begin,
          as my D&D knowledge is rather limited as a lowly player and non-DM)

          Thanks again for the info!

          /Chris


          > From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
          > Reply-To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:49:35 -0800
          > To: <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [pcgen] 4th edition support?
          >
          > Hi Chris,
          >
          > PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
          > However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
          > these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via IM).
          >
          > Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
          > edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
          > Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
          > to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
          > and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
          > and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
          >
          > If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
          >
          > On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
          > started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
          >
          > - Andrew
          >
          >
          > Chris Ellerby wrote:
          >> Greetings,
          >>
          >> I've been searching for a few hours now, and have not had any luck, so I am
          >> turning to this mailing list. I apologize if this question has been asked a
          >> lot, or if the answer is clearly posted somewhere that I have been unable to
          >> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
          >>
          >> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
          >> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern,
          >> Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
          >>
          >> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
          >>
          >> I've downloaded the latest data files, imported them, searched the wiki,
          >> scoured sourceforge the site, plundered google... and yet no clear answer
          >> about how to get 4E to show up.
          >>
          >> Thanks in advance for any help, and once again I apologize if I've overlooked
          >> something obvious!
          >>
          >> /Chris
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Related Lists
          >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          >> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
          >> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
          >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          >> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          >> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
          >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
          >>
          >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >>
          >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          >> (for new official data source development)
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Related Lists
          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
          > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
          > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
          > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
          > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
          >
          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
          >
          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
          > (for new official data source development)
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Lachlan MacLean
          Hey Andrew, I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please? Thanks ... [Non-text portions of this
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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            Hey Andrew,

            I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
            the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?

            Thanks

            At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >Hi Chris,
            >
            >PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
            >However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
            >these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via IM).
            >
            >Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
            >edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
            >Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
            >to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
            >and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
            >and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
            >
            >If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
            >
            >On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
            >started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
            >
            >- Andrew
            >
            >Chris Ellerby wrote:
            > > Greetings,
            > >
            > > I've been searching for a few hours now, and
            > have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
            > mailing list. I apologize if this question has
            > been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
            > posted somewhere that I have been unable to
            > find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
            > >
            > > The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
            > > "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
            > D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
            > >
            > > So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
            > >
            > > I've downloaded the latest data files,
            > imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
            > sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
            > yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance for any help, and once
            > again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
            > >
            > > /Chris
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Related Lists
            > > PCGen's release site:
            > <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
            > > PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
            > > PCGen's Roadmap:
            > <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
            > > PCGen's alpha build:
            > <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
            > > PCGen's Online Docs:
            > <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
            > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
            > <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
            > >
            > > PCGen List File Help:
            > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
            > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
            > >
            > > PCGen Experimental:
            > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
            > > (for new official data source development)
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew Maitland
            Oh dear, that link isn t easy to find at all... Sorry bout that. It s filed under stable releases in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder... Here is the direct link
            Message 5 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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              Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.

              It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...

              Here is the direct link
              https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download

              I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know what
              we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
              getting a better link on the Front Page.

              Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
              Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
              Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



              Lachlan MacLean wrote:
              > Hey Andrew,
              >
              > I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
              > the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
              >
              >> Hi Chris,
              >>
              >> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
              >> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
              >> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via IM).
              >>
              >> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
              >> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
              >> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
              >> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
              >> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
              >> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
              >>
              >> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
              >>
              >> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
              >> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
              >>
              >> - Andrew
              >>
              >> Chris Ellerby wrote:
              >>
              >>> Greetings,
              >>>
              >>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
              >>>
              >> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
              >> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
              >> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
              >> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
              >> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
              >>
              >>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
              >>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
              >>>
              >> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
              >>
              >>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
              >>>
              >>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
              >>>
              >> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
              >> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
              >> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
              >>
              >>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
              >>>
              >> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
              >>
              >>> /Chris
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> ------------------------------------
              >>>
              >>> Related Lists
              >>> PCGen's release site:
              >>>
              >> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              >>
              >>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              >>> PCGen's Roadmap:
              >>>
              >> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              >>
              >>> PCGen's alpha build:
              >>>
              >> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              >>
              >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
              >>>
              >> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              >>
              >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
              >>>
              >> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              >>
              >>> PCGen List File Help:
              >>>
              >> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              >>
              >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >>>
              >>> PCGen Experimental:
              >>>
              >> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              >>
              >>> (for new official data source development)
              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Related Lists
              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
              > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
              > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
              >
              > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
              >
              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
              > (for new official data source development)
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Kantner
              My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E ( http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that it s sort of a sham compared
              Message 6 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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                My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that it's
                sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the license at
                any time). Am I missing something?



                On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                >
                > It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                >
                > Here is the direct link
                >
                > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                >
                > I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know what
                > we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                > getting a better link on the Front Page.
                >
                > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                >
                >
                > Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                > > Hey Andrew,
                > >
                > > I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                > > the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > >
                > > At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                > >
                > >> Hi Chris,
                > >>
                > >> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
                > >> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                > >> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via
                > IM).
                > >>
                > >> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                > >> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                > >> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                > >> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
                > >> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
                > >> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                > >>
                > >> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                > >>
                > >> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
                > >> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                > >>
                > >> - Andrew
                > >>
                > >> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                > >>
                > >>> Greetings,
                > >>>
                > >>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                > >>>
                > >> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                > >> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                > >> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                > >> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                > >> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                > >>
                > >>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                > >>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                > >>>
                > >> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                > >>
                > >>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                > >>>
                > >>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                > >>>
                > >> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                > >> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                > >> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                > >>
                > >>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                > >>>
                > >> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                > >>
                > >>> /Chris
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> ------------------------------------
                > >>>
                > >>> Related Lists
                > >>> PCGen's release site:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > >>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                > http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen's alpha build:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                > http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                > >>
                > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > >>
                > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                > >>>
                > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                > >>>
                > >> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > >>
                > >>> (for new official data source development)
                > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                >
                > >
                > > Related Lists
                > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                > > PCGen's Online Docs:
                > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                > >
                > > PCGen List File Help:
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                > >
                > > PCGen Experimental:
                > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                > > (for new official data source development)
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >



                --
                "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                7, 2009


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew Maitland
                Hi John, Short answer - That didn t apply for us. If you wish to have a full disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations Silverback
                Message 7 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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                  Hi John,

                  Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                  disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                  Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                  manner than I can muster.

                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                  John Kantner wrote:
                  > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                  > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that it's
                  > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the license at
                  > any time). Am I missing something?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                  >>
                  >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                  >>
                  >> Here is the direct link
                  >>
                  >> https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                  >>
                  >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know what
                  >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                  >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                  >>
                  >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                  >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                  >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Hey Andrew,
                  >>>
                  >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                  >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                  >>>
                  >>> Thanks
                  >>>
                  >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>> Hi Chris,
                  >>>>
                  >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for it.
                  >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                  >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via
                  >>>>
                  >> IM).
                  >>
                  >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                  >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                  >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                  >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen can
                  >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet (PDF
                  >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get you
                  >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> - Andrew
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> Greetings,
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                  >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                  >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                  >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                  >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                  >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                  >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                  >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> /Chris
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Related Lists
                  >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  >>
                  >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  >>
                  >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  >>
                  >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  >>
                  >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  >>
                  >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                  >>>>
                  >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  >>
                  >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                  >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> Related Lists
                  >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                  >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                  >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                  >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                  >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                  >>>
                  >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                  >>
                  >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                  >>>
                  >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                  >>
                  >>> PCGen List File Help:
                  >>>
                  >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                  >>
                  >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                  >>>
                  >>> PCGen Experimental:
                  >>>
                  >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                  >>
                  >>> (for new official data source development)
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John Kantner
                  Andrew: I really don t care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that 4E
                  Message 8 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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                    Andrew:

                    I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                    relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                    4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                    the 3.x OGL.

                    I know people who have read the 4E books and people who have actually played
                    it and based on their accounts I have absolutely no interest in playing 4E.
                    I play D&D not this World of Warcr--- I mean, 4th edition nonsense!

                    John

                    On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hi John,
                    >
                    > Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                    > disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                    > Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                    > manner than I can muster.
                    >
                    >
                    > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                    > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                    > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    >
                    > John Kantner wrote:
                    > > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                    > > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that
                    > it's
                    > > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the license
                    > at
                    > > any time). Am I missing something?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...<drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                    > >>
                    > >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                    > >>
                    > >> Here is the direct link
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                    > >>
                    > >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know what
                    > >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                    > >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                    > >>
                    > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                    > >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                    > >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                    > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>> Hey Andrew,
                    > >>>
                    > >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                    > >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Thanks
                    > >>>
                    > >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>> Hi Chris,
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for
                    > it.
                    > >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                    > >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help via
                    > >>>>
                    > >> IM).
                    > >>
                    > >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                    > >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                    > >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                    > >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen
                    > can
                    > >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet
                    > (PDF
                    > >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get
                    > you
                    > >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> - Andrew
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> Greetings,
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                    > >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                    > >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                    > >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                    > >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                    > >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                    > >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                    > >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> /Chris
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> ------------------------------------
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> Related Lists
                    > >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                    > >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                    > >>>>
                    > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                    > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>>>>
                    > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>> ------------------------------------
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Related Lists
                    > >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                    > >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                    > >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                    > >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                    > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                    > >>>
                    > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                    > >>
                    > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                    > >>>
                    > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                    > >>
                    > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                    > >>>
                    > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                    > >>
                    > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                    > >>>
                    > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                    > >>>
                    > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                    > >>
                    > >>> (for new official data source development)
                    > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                    blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                    trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                    you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                    bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                    7, 2009


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jonathan Thompson
                    Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which is a completely different and more restricting license). ... Jonathan M. Thompson
                    Message 9 of 28 , Nov 30, 2009
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                      Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which is a
                      completely different and more restricting license).

                      On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:39 PM, John Kantner <jkantner@...> wrote:

                      > Andrew:
                      >
                      > I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                      > relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                      > 4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                      > the 3.x OGL.
                      >
                      > --
                      Jonathan M. Thompson
                      Battlefield Press, Inc (www.battlefieldpress.com) / Solar Flare Productions

                      jthompson@...
                      d20 Magazine Rack (www.d20zines.com)
                      thompsonjm@...
                      In Development: (2009) Gaslight Victorian Fantasy (OGL/Savage Worlds),
                      (2010) Fantastic World (Ubiquity), Terran Trade Authority (MGT) |
                      "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it
                      we go nowhere." - Carl Sagan


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Barak
                      ... Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software. :( Barak
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > Jonathan Thompson
                        > Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which
                        > is a completely different and more restricting license).

                        Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software. :(

                        Barak
                      • Tir Gwaith
                        There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I m assuming since they
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                          There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from
                          the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I'm
                          assuming since they want people to join their on-line stuff.

                          The 4.0 'SRD' is just a list of object names. IIRC, it can be added
                          to at any time, and if any previous product already has that name now
                          included in the GSL's SRD document, the 3rd party publisher has to
                          remove it, or change it to match what they use (or something like
                          that).

                          Tir Gwaith
                          PCGen LST Chimp
                        • Tir Gwaith
                          ... Yep, and I need to finish reading a thread before replying. :) Tir Gwaith PCGen LST Chimp
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                            On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:44 AM, Barak <barak@...> wrote:
                            >> -----Original Message-----
                            >> Jonathan Thompson
                            >> Technically this is wrong, 4e has no OGL, what it has is the GSL (which
                            >> is a completely different and more restricting license).
                            >
                            > Yeah... it *specifically* forbids software.  :(

                            Yep, and I need to finish reading a thread before replying. :)

                            Tir Gwaith
                            PCGen LST Chimp
                          • Keith McComb
                            As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the section that stated
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                              As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in
                              the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the
                              section that stated that if you were going to sell 4th Ed, you had to
                              stop doing anything with 3.5 Ed stuff. Apparently a lot of companies
                              looked at them and said, "No thanks." Hasbro shot themselves in the foot
                              on that.

                              Think they're still forbidding software, though.

                              Keith

                              Tir Gwaith wrote:
                              >
                              > There is no 4.0 OGL. They have a GSL, and it is very different from
                              > the OGL. The GSL prevents any character generation software. I'm
                              > assuming since they want people to join their on-line stuff.
                              >
                              > The 4.0 'SRD' is just a list of object names. IIRC, it can be added
                              > to at any time, and if any previous product already has that name now
                              > included in the GSL's SRD document, the 3rd party publisher has to
                              > remove it, or change it to match what they use (or something like
                              > that).
                              >
                              > Tir Gwaith
                              > PCGen LST Chimp
                              >
                              >
                            • Maredudd
                              Hi Folks! ... You are correct Keith, the revised GSL did not remove the restriction on software. Eric Smith PR Silverback
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                                Hi Folks!

                                Keith wrote:
                                >
                                > As someone who is looking at selling some content that can be used in
                                > the systems - they specifically re-released their GSL, removing the
                                > section that stated that if you were going to sell 4th Ed, you had to
                                > stop doing anything with 3.5 Ed stuff. Apparently a lot of companies
                                > looked at them and said, "No thanks." Hasbro shot themselves in the foot
                                > on that.
                                >
                                > Think they're still forbidding software, though.

                                You are correct Keith, the revised GSL did not remove the restriction on software.

                                Eric Smith
                                PR Silverback
                              • Dave
                                For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and 4th Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their Pathfinder
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
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                                  For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and 4th
                                  Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their
                                  Pathfinder RPG and adventure path product lines.

                                  They have a free online Game Reference Document:
                                  http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

                                  and you can find all relevant products here:
                                  http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

                                  Best of all, it's fully supported by PCgen!

                                  Hope you find this useful.

                                  -Dave

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
                                  Kantner
                                  Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:40 PM
                                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [pcgen] 4th edition support?

                                  Andrew:

                                  I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                                  relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                                  4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                                  the 3.x OGL.

                                  I know people who have read the 4E books and people who have actually played
                                  it and based on their accounts I have absolutely no interest in playing 4E.
                                  I play D&D not this World of Warcr--- I mean, 4th edition nonsense!

                                  John

                                  On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi John,
                                  >
                                  > Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                                  > disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                                  > Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                                  > manner than I can muster.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                  > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                  > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                  > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                  >
                                  > John Kantner wrote:
                                  > > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                                  > > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but that
                                  > it's
                                  > > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the
                                  license
                                  > at
                                  > > any time). Am I missing something?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland
                                  <drew0500@...<drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Here is the direct link
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  >
                                  https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.
                                  1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                                  > >>
                                  > >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know
                                  what
                                  > >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                                  > >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                  > >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                  > >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                  > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> Hey Andrew,
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                                  > >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> Thanks
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>> Hi Chris,
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for
                                  > it.
                                  > >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                                  > >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help
                                  via
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> IM).
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                                  > >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                                  > >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                                  > >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen
                                  > can
                                  > >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet
                                  > (PDF
                                  > >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get
                                  > you
                                  > >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> - Andrew
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> Greetings,
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                                  > >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                                  > >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                                  > >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                                  > >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                                  > >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                                  > >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                                  > >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> /Chris
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> Related Lists
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                                  > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> Related Lists
                                  > >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                  > >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                  > >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> (for new official data source development)
                                  > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  --
                                  "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                                  blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                                  trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                                  you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                                  bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                                  7, 2009


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Related Lists
                                  PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                  PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                  PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                  PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                  http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                                  PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                                  PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  (for new official data source development)
                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • Jonathan Thompson
                                  And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form, and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft. ... -- Jonathan M.
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 1, 2009
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                                    and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.

                                    On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Dave <countbuggula@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > For those of you who may not know about it, and are fed up with WotC and
                                    > 4th
                                    > Edition, Paizo has continued support for the 3.x D&D system with their
                                    > Pathfinder RPG and adventure path product lines.
                                    >
                                    > They have a free online Game Reference Document:
                                    > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/
                                    >
                                    > and you can find all relevant products here:
                                    > http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG
                                    >
                                    > Best of all, it's fully supported by PCgen!
                                    >
                                    > Hope you find this useful.
                                    >
                                    > -Dave
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                                    > pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of John
                                    > Kantner
                                    > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:40 PM
                                    > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Subject: Re: [pcgen] 4th edition support?
                                    >
                                    > Andrew:
                                    >
                                    > I really don't care enough to contact anyone else about this; I was just
                                    > relaying what I thought I knew of the situation. It was stated earlier that
                                    > 4E has no OGL when in fact it does have one that is much more limiting than
                                    > the 3.x OGL.
                                    >
                                    > I know people who have read the 4E books and people who have actually
                                    > played
                                    > it and based on their accounts I have absolutely no interest in playing 4E.
                                    > I play D&D not this World of Warcr--- I mean, 4th edition nonsense!
                                    >
                                    > John
                                    >
                                    > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...<drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi John,
                                    > >
                                    > > Short answer - That didn't apply for us. If you wish to have a full
                                    > > disclosure of the reasons, Eric Smith is the Public Media Relations
                                    > > Silverback and can answer the reasons in a more succinct and eloquent
                                    > > manner than I can muster.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                    > > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                    > > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                    > > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                    > >
                                    > > John Kantner wrote:
                                    > > > My understanding was that WOTC did provide an OGL for 4E (
                                    > > > http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4news/20080108a) but
                                    > that
                                    > > it's
                                    > > > sort of a sham compared with 3.x's (basically they can revoke the
                                    > license
                                    > > at
                                    > > > any time). Am I missing something?
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Andrew Maitland
                                    > <drew0500@... <drew0500%40yahoo.com><drew0500%40yahoo.com>>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >> Oh dear, that link isn't easy to find at all... Sorry bout that.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> It's filed under "stable releases" in the OOC for 5.16.1 folder...
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> Here is the direct link
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > https://sourceforge.net/projects/pcgen/files/PCGen%20Stable%20Datasets/5.16.
                                    > 1%20OOC%20Data%20Sets/5160_pcgen_4e_starter_set_0.1.zip/download
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> I'd invite anyone and everyone with critiques to please let me know
                                    > what
                                    > > >> we can do to improve support here... I'll see what I can do about
                                    > > >> getting a better link on the Front Page.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                    > > >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                    > > >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                    > > >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> Lachlan MacLean wrote:
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> Hey Andrew,
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> I am not finding the skeleton set primer,, Nor
                                    > > >>> the handy 4e docs.. Can you advise as to the link please?
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> Thanks
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> At 06:49 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>> Hi Chris,
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>> PCGen supports 4th edition, but we cannot provide any data sets for
                                    > > it.
                                    > > >>>> However, we can assist you in creating your own, via documentation,
                                    > > >>>> these mailing lists, and for a few who even consider it (live help
                                    > via
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> IM).
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>> Unfortunately, WotC (Wizard of the Coast), did not release the 4th
                                    > > >>>> edition game system under any type of 'OGL' Open Gaming License.
                                    > > >>>> Thereby, drastically limiting what we can and cannot do in regards
                                    > > >>>> to/for 4th edition. Myself and many others have made sure that PCGen
                                    > > can
                                    > > >>>> and will support our homebrew users, maintaining a nice Outputsheet
                                    > > (PDF
                                    > > >>>> and HTM) and offering advice on how to create things.
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>> If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>> On a side note - There is a down-loadable skeleton set primer to get
                                    > > you
                                    > > >>>> started. And I did create some handy 4e specific documentation.
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>> - Andrew
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>> Chris Ellerby wrote:
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> Greetings,
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>> I've been searching for a few hours now, and
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> have not had any luck, so I am turning to this
                                    > > >>>> mailing list. I apologize if this question has
                                    > > >>>> been asked a lot, or if the answer is clearly
                                    > > >>>> posted somewhere that I have been unable to
                                    > > >>>> find! (I did my due diligence before posting here, honest!)
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> The front page on sourceforge for PC Gen stages:
                                    > > >>>>> "Supports d20 based Game Systems including
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> D&D (3E, 3.5E, 4E), d20 Modern, Pathfinder, d20 Modern."
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> So since 4th edition is listed as supported, what am I missing?
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>> I've downloaded the latest data files,
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> imported them, searched the wiki, scoured
                                    > > >>>> sourceforge the site, plundered google... and
                                    > > >>>> yet no clear answer about how to get 4E to show up.
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> Thanks in advance for any help, and once
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> again I apologize if I've overlooked something obvious!
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> /Chris
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>> ------------------------------------
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>> Related Lists
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's release site:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net>http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's Wiki: <http://wiki.pcgen.org/>http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's Roadmap:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's alpha build:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen List File Help:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>> PCGen Experimental:
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/>
                                    > > >>>>
                                    > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>>>> (for new official data source development)
                                    > > >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>>>>
                                    > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> ------------------------------------
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> Related Lists
                                    > > >>> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    > > >>> PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                    > > >>> PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                    > > >>> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    > > >>> PCGen's Online Docs:
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >> http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >> http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> PCGen List File Help:
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>> PCGen Experimental:
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> (for new official data source development)
                                    > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >>>
                                    > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > "The people you think are on your side are actually vampires sucking your
                                    > blood; the people you think are out to destroy you and America are actually
                                    > trying to save you--and you're throwing away the life vest they've thrown
                                    > you because the predators pretending to be your friends told you it's a
                                    > bomb." --NYTimes commentator 'Ehkzu' in a Times editors' selection, August
                                    > 7, 2009
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Related Lists
                                    > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                    > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                    > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                    > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                    > PCGen's Online Docs:
                                    > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                    > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                    > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                    >
                                    > PCGen List File Help:
                                    > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                    > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                    >
                                    > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                    > (for new official data source development)
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    Jonathan M. Thompson
                                    Battlefield Press, Inc (www.battlefieldpress.com) / Solar Flare Productions

                                    jthompson@...
                                    d20 Magazine Rack (www.d20zines.com)
                                    thompsonjm@...
                                    In Development: (2009) Gaslight Victorian Fantasy (OGL/Savage Worlds),
                                    (2010) Fantastic World (Ubiquity), Terran Trade Authority (MGT) |
                                    "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it
                                    we go nowhere." - Carl Sagan


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • red_eyed_antipaladin
                                    Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set exist in PCGen?

                                      (I worked on the short-lived Spycraft 2.0 dataset, and I remember a significant limitation around maximum skill ranks being hardcoded, among other things.)

                                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                                      > and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.
                                    • Andrew Maitland
                                      Hi, I can t answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren t as hardcoded as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                        Hi,

                                        I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to change the max rank for a certain character.

                                        - Andrew



                                        ________________________________
                                        From: red_eyed_antipaladin <alreadydamned@...>
                                        To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:11:28 PM
                                        Subject: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support

                                        Sorry, just wanted to check something Does this mean there will be a FantasyCraft PCGen data set, or just that the necessary functions to build a data set exist in PCGen?

                                        (I worked on the short-lived Spycraft 2.0 dataset, and I remember a significant limitation around maximum skill ranks being hardcoded, among other things.)

                                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > And of course we are continuing to support the 3.x line in its native form,
                                        > and in modified forms along with support for FantasyCraft.




                                        ------------------------------------

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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Eddy Anthony
                                        ... Per skill or for all skills? The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max ranks for specific skills. -- ~ Eddy Anthony
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                          Andrew Maitland scribed:

                                          > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded
                                          > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to
                                          > change the max rank for a certain character.

                                          Per skill or for all skills?

                                          The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                                          ranks for specific skills.
                                          --
                                          ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                          ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                          ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                        • Andrew Maitland
                                          It s global across the board. Individual skill support would either need code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around... still
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                            It's global across the board. Individual skill support would either need code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around... still doable if you really wanted it...




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...>
                                            To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:26:31 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support

                                            Andrew Maitland scribed:

                                            > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't as hardcoded
                                            > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow you to
                                            > change the max rank for a certain character.

                                            Per skill or for all skills?

                                            The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                                            ranks for specific skills.
                                            --
                                            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                            ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                            ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru




                                            ------------------------------------

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                                            PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Jonathan Thompson
                                            With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support would be favorable for BPI. ... -- Jonathan M. Thompson Battlefield Press, Inc
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                              With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                              would be favorable for BPI.

                                              On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:

                                              >
                                              >
                                              > It's global across the board. Individual skill support would either need
                                              > code work or could be done in data but that would be a lot of work around...
                                              > still doable if you really wanted it...
                                              >
                                              > ________________________________
                                              > From: Eddy Anthony <eddyba@... <eddyba%40mindspring.com>>
                                              > To: PCGen Groups <pcgen@yahoogroups.com <pcgen%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                              > Sent: Thu, December 3, 2009 4:26:31 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [pcgen] Fantasycraft support
                                              >
                                              > Andrew Maitland scribed:
                                              >
                                              > > I can't answer the first portion, but the Max Skill Ranks aren't
                                              > as hardcoded
                                              > > as is believed. You may add a variable to the gamemode which will allow
                                              > you to
                                              > > change the max rank for a certain character.
                                              >
                                              > Per skill or for all skills?
                                              >
                                              > The feature needed for Spycraft was the ability to add ranks beyond the max
                                              > ranks for specific skills.
                                              > --
                                              > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                              > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                              > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Related Lists
                                              > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                              > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                                              > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                              > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                              > PCGen's Online Docs:
                                              > http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                              > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs:
                                              > http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                              >
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                                              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                              > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                              >
                                              > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                              > (for new official data source development)
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >



                                              --
                                              Jonathan M. Thompson
                                              Battlefield Press, Inc (www.battlefieldpress.com) / Solar Flare Productions

                                              jthompson@...
                                              d20 Magazine Rack (www.d20zines.com)
                                              thompsonjm@...
                                              In Development: (2009) Gaslight Victorian Fantasy (OGL/Savage Worlds),
                                              (2010) Fantastic World (Ubiquity), Terran Trade Authority (MGT) |
                                              "Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it
                                              we go nowhere." - Carl Sagan


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • red_eyed_antipaladin
                                              Eddy, it s been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher s wishes? If the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                                Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?

                                                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                                > would be favorable for BPI.
                                                >
                                                > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                              • red_eyed_antipaladin
                                                Sorry, that should obviously have read Spycraft . The keyboard gremlins are out in force today.
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                                  Sorry, that should obviously have read 'Spycraft'. The keyboard gremlins are out in force today.

                                                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "red_eyed_antipaladin" <alreadydamned@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                                  > > would be favorable for BPI.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • Eddy Anthony
                                                  I d prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring publishers
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 3, 2009
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                                                    I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                                    earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                                    publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                                    FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                                    asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                                    them.

                                                    I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                                    dataset if one were available?

                                                    Michael Swadling scribed:

                                                    > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we
                                                    > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If
                                                    > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@...> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                                    >> would be favorable for BPI.

                                                    --
                                                    ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                                    ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                                    ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                                  • John Carrington
                                                    I would definitely be interested in a Fantasy Craft data set - huge help in character generation. AJC
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Dec 4, 2009
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                                                      I would definitely be interested in a Fantasy Craft data set - huge help
                                                      in character generation.

                                                      AJC

                                                      On 12/3/2009 10:53 PM, Eddy Anthony wrote:
                                                      > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                                      > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                                      > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                                      > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                                      > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                                      > them.
                                                      >
                                                      > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                                      > dataset if one were available?
                                                      >
                                                      > Michael Swadling scribed
                                                    • red_eyed_antipaladin
                                                      Hi Eddy/Eric, Any further word on this project? Thanks, Michael
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jan 11, 2010
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                                                        Hi Eddy/Eric,

                                                        Any further word on this project?

                                                        Thanks,

                                                        Michael

                                                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I hope we have
                                                        > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                                        > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                                        > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released but I've
                                                        > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check in with
                                                        > them.
                                                        >
                                                        > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a FantasyCraft
                                                        > dataset if one were available?
                                                        >
                                                        > Michael Swadling scribed:
                                                        >
                                                        > > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was the reason we
                                                        > > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the publisher's wishes? If
                                                        > > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@> wrote:
                                                        > >>
                                                        > >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then FC support
                                                        > >> would be favorable for BPI.
                                                        >
                                                        > --
                                                        > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                                        > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                                        > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                                        >
                                                      • Hollis McCray
                                                        On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, red_eyed_antipaladin ... On a related topic, has there ever been any thought as to Mutants & Masterminds support? Or would
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jan 14, 2010
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                                                          On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:55 PM, red_eyed_antipaladin
                                                          <alreadydamned@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > Hi Eddy/Eric,
                                                          >
                                                          > Any further word on this project?

                                                          On a related topic, has there ever been any thought as to Mutants &
                                                          Masterminds support? Or would that require a separate program?

                                                          --
                                                          Hollis McCray
                                                          Mutant Registration Number #US2002023904

                                                          Warning: Proximity to this individual may expose you to the following RPGs:
                                                          Fate: http://www.faterpg.com
                                                          Mutants & Masterminds: http://www.mutantsandmasterminds.com
                                                          Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies: http://www.7skies.net/
                                                          Please visit these websites in order to protect yourself.
                                                        • Eric C Smith
                                                          Hello Michael, We do not have any new information for this product. ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd) ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors ~ Documentation 2nd,
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jan 14, 2010
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                                                            Hello Michael,

                                                            We do not have any new information for this product.

                                                            ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd)
                                                            ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                                            ~ Documentation 2nd, Data Gibbon
                                                            ~ PL Chimp, OGL Gibbon
                                                            ~ Tracker Gibbon, Website Tamarin
                                                            ~ Tenacious Monkey
                                                            ~ Face melioram personam

                                                            On Jan 12, 2010, at 1:55 AM, red_eyed_antipaladin wrote:

                                                            > Hi Eddy/Eric,
                                                            >
                                                            > Any further word on this project?
                                                            >
                                                            > Thanks,
                                                            >
                                                            > Michael
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I'd prefer not to disclose details in order to keep the trust I
                                                            > hope we have
                                                            > > earned with the publishers, we have always had a policy of honoring
                                                            > > publishers wishes and this case was no different. I don't know about
                                                            > > FantasyCraft, we've not spoken with Crafty since it was released
                                                            > but I've
                                                            > > asked our Publisher Liaison, Eric Smith, to see if he could check
                                                            > in with
                                                            > > them.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I'd be interested to know how many on this list would use a
                                                            > FantasyCraft
                                                            > > dataset if one were available?
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Michael Swadling scribed:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > > Eddy, it's been a few years, so my memory grows dim. What was
                                                            > the reason we
                                                            > > > discontinued the Psycraft set? Code limitations, or the
                                                            > publisher's wishes? If
                                                            > > > the latter, what are our chances of getting permission for FC?
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Thompson <thompsonjm@>
                                                            > wrote:
                                                            > > >>
                                                            > > >> With the sheer number of products we are releasing for FC, then
                                                            > FC support
                                                            > > >> would be favorable for BPI.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --
                                                            > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                                                            > > ~ PCGen Data, Docs & Tracker Chimp
                                                            > > ~ Outputsheet Tamarin & Mac build guru
                                                            >
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