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[pcgen][pathfinder] efficient quiver lacks compartments

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  • Saxum Caribetum
    I equipped a (Pathfinder RPG) character with an Efficient Quiver. Inventory also contains * arrows (20) *3 * quarterstaff * assorted scrolls * magic wand *
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 18, 2009
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      I equipped a (Pathfinder RPG) character with an Efficient Quiver.
      Inventory also contains

      * arrows (20) *3
      * quarterstaff
      * assorted scrolls
      * magic wand
      * longbow


      I can select the Efficient Quiver as a container, and can add items to
      it, but apparently only to one compartment and the "up to the size of"
      is not respected properly (or flexibly)

      I can ad all 60 arrows, but nothing else
      I can add the bow, but then no arrows
      I cannot add the staff, although I have always allowed this in 3.5 as
      staff & javelin are basically same size
      I cannot add scrolls although that are larger than arrow and smaller
      than javelin
      I cannot add wand although it is larger than arrow and smaller than javelin


      --
      Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
      ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
      Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
      Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Eric C Smith
      Greetings Folks! ... Per the source material, the first, and smallest, compartment can hold upto 60 items of the same general size and shape as an arrow but
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 18, 2009
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        Greetings Folks!

        Saxum wrote:
        > I equipped a (Pathfinder RPG) character with an Efficient Quiver.
        > Inventory also contains
        >
        > * arrows (20) *3
        > * quarterstaff
        > * assorted scrolls
        > * magic wand
        > * longbow
        >
        > I can select the Efficient Quiver as a container, and can add items to
        > it, but apparently only to one compartment and the "up to the size of"
        > is not respected properly (or flexibly)
        >
        > I can ad all 60 arrows, but nothing else
        > I can add the bow, but then no arrows
        > I cannot add the staff, although I have always allowed this in 3.5 as
        > staff & javelin are basically same size
        > I cannot add scrolls although that are larger than arrow and smaller
        > than javelin
        > I cannot add wand although it is larger than arrow and smaller than
        > javelin
        >


        Per the source material, the first, and smallest, compartment can hold
        upto 60 items of the same 'general size and shape' as an arrow but it
        gives no examples. Wands might qualify for this but I have a hard time
        seeing scrolls as such. The other two compartments in the quiver have
        similar descriptions only relating the items 'general size and shape'
        of javelin and bow respectively. For the third compartment it gives
        examples beyond a bow, e.g. spear and staff,.

        The first thing I see that needs to be fixed here is to add the
        'Staff' type to the quarterstaff. That will allow the weapon
        'Quarterstaff' to be placed inside the Efficient Quiver. All magical
        staves, I believe, already have the 'Staff' type.

        We will also need to add wands and scrolls, if the team agrees, as
        well as any other item currently in the equipment files, by base type,
        to the CONTAINS tag for the quiver. Note though that it is unlikely
        that we will be able to cover every possibility that might come up and
        as the rule is purely subjective, i.e. 'same general size and shape',
        there will likely be differences of opinion on what will and will not
        fit.

        The second issue I see is with the syntax of the tag itself. The tag
        is coded thus:

        CONTAINS:*UNLIM|Arrow=60|Javelin=18|Total=6|Bow=6|Spear=6|Staff=6

        As I was lead to believe, the Arrow and Javelin entries are not
        effected by the Total entry while the Bow, Spear and Staff entries are
        restricted to a maximum of 6 items between all three equipment types.
        It appears that this is not so.

        I created a first level character and equipped an Efficient Quiver. I
        then placed individually a staff and a bundle of arrows in the quiver.
        I could not place both in the quiver at the same time. I could, on the
        other hand, place a single arrow and a staff in the quiver. This leads
        me to believe that the 'Total=z' is not position dependant and that it
        currently applies to ALL objects in the container.

        So, we need at least three trackers. Two Data and one Code:

        Data Tracker - Add 'Staff' type to the weapon Quarterstaff.

        Data Tracker - Add items with the same general size and shape to the
        arrow, Javelin and bow to the Efficient Quiver's CONTAINS tag.

        Code Tracker - Make the 'Total=z' subtag position dependant, i.e.
        allow for CONTAINS:x|y1=z1|Total=z2|y3=z3|y4=z4|Total=z5|y6=z6|y7=z7


        ~ Eric C Smith (Maredudd)
        ~ PR Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
        ~ Documentation 2nd, Data Gibbon
        ~ PL Chimp, OGL Gibbon
        ~ Tracker Gibbon, Website Tamarin
        ~ Tenacious Monkey
        ~ Face melioram personam
      • Eddy Anthony
        ... Another possibility to consider since PCGen cannot currently handle the complexity of the load limitations is to just make it completely unlimited and let
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 18, 2009
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          Eric C Smith scribed:

          > Greetings Folks!
          >
          > Saxum wrote:
          >> I equipped a (Pathfinder RPG) character with an Efficient Quiver.
          >> Inventory also contains
          >>
          >> * arrows (20) *3
          >> * quarterstaff
          >> * assorted scrolls
          >> * magic wand
          >> * longbow
          >>
          >> I can select the Efficient Quiver as a container, and can add items to
          >> it, but apparently only to one compartment and the "up to the size of"
          >> is not respected properly (or flexibly)
          >>
          >> I can ad all 60 arrows, but nothing else
          >> I can add the bow, but then no arrows
          >> I cannot add the staff, although I have always allowed this in 3.5 as
          >> staff & javelin are basically same size
          >> I cannot add scrolls although that are larger than arrow and smaller
          >> than javelin
          >> I cannot add wand although it is larger than arrow and smaller than
          >> javelin
          >>
          >
          >
          > Per the source material, the first, and smallest, compartment can hold
          > upto 60 items of the same 'general size and shape' as an arrow but it
          > gives no examples. Wands might qualify for this but I have a hard time
          > seeing scrolls as such. The other two compartments in the quiver have
          > similar descriptions only relating the items 'general size and shape'
          > of javelin and bow respectively. For the third compartment it gives
          > examples beyond a bow, e.g. spear and staff,.
          >
          > The first thing I see that needs to be fixed here is to add the
          > 'Staff' type to the quarterstaff. That will allow the weapon
          > 'Quarterstaff' to be placed inside the Efficient Quiver. All magical
          > staves, I believe, already have the 'Staff' type.
          >
          > We will also need to add wands and scrolls, if the team agrees, as
          > well as any other item currently in the equipment files, by base type,
          > to the CONTAINS tag for the quiver. Note though that it is unlikely
          > that we will be able to cover every possibility that might come up and
          > as the rule is purely subjective, i.e. 'same general size and shape',
          > there will likely be differences of opinion on what will and will not
          > fit.
          >
          > The second issue I see is with the syntax of the tag itself. The tag
          > is coded thus:
          >
          > CONTAINS:*UNLIM|Arrow=60|Javelin=18|Total=6|Bow=6|Spear=6|Staff=6
          >
          > As I was lead to believe, the Arrow and Javelin entries are not
          > effected by the Total entry while the Bow, Spear and Staff entries are
          > restricted to a maximum of 6 items between all three equipment types.
          > It appears that this is not so.
          >
          > I created a first level character and equipped an Efficient Quiver. I
          > then placed individually a staff and a bundle of arrows in the quiver.
          > I could not place both in the quiver at the same time. I could, on the
          > other hand, place a single arrow and a staff in the quiver. This leads
          > me to believe that the 'Total=z' is not position dependant and that it
          > currently applies to ALL objects in the container.
          >
          > So, we need at least three trackers. Two Data and one Code:
          >
          > Data Tracker - Add 'Staff' type to the weapon Quarterstaff.
          >
          > Data Tracker - Add items with the same general size and shape to the
          > arrow, Javelin and bow to the Efficient Quiver's CONTAINS tag.
          >
          > Code Tracker - Make the 'Total=z' subtag position dependant, i.e.
          > allow for CONTAINS:x|y1=z1|Total=z2|y3=z3|y4=z4|Total=z5|y6=z6|y7=z7

          Another possibility to consider since PCGen cannot currently handle the
          complexity of the load limitations is to just make it completely unlimited
          and let the user police the restrictions.
          --
          ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          ~ PCGen Board of Directors
          ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second
        • karianna03
          Hi all, ... Sounds like this discussion should move to experimental... K
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 20, 2009
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            Hi all,

            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@...> wrote:
            >
            > Eric C Smith scribed:
            >
            > > Greetings Folks!
            > >
            > > Saxum wrote:
            > >> I equipped a (Pathfinder RPG) character with an Efficient Quiver.
            > >> Inventory also contains
            > >>
            > >> * arrows (20) *3
            > >> * quarterstaff
            > >> * assorted scrolls
            > >> * magic wand
            > >> * longbow
            > >>
            > >> I can select the Efficient Quiver as a container, and can add items to
            > >> it, but apparently only to one compartment and the "up to the size of"
            > >> is not respected properly (or flexibly)
            > >>
            > >> I can ad all 60 arrows, but nothing else
            > >> I can add the bow, but then no arrows
            > >> I cannot add the staff, although I have always allowed this in 3.5 as
            > >> staff & javelin are basically same size
            > >> I cannot add scrolls although that are larger than arrow and smaller
            > >> than javelin
            > >> I cannot add wand although it is larger than arrow and smaller than
            > >> javelin
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > Per the source material, the first, and smallest, compartment can hold
            > > upto 60 items of the same 'general size and shape' as an arrow but it
            > > gives no examples. Wands might qualify for this but I have a hard time
            > > seeing scrolls as such. The other two compartments in the quiver have
            > > similar descriptions only relating the items 'general size and shape'
            > > of javelin and bow respectively. For the third compartment it gives
            > > examples beyond a bow, e.g. spear and staff,.
            > >
            > > The first thing I see that needs to be fixed here is to add the
            > > 'Staff' type to the quarterstaff. That will allow the weapon
            > > 'Quarterstaff' to be placed inside the Efficient Quiver. All magical
            > > staves, I believe, already have the 'Staff' type.
            > >
            > > We will also need to add wands and scrolls, if the team agrees, as
            > > well as any other item currently in the equipment files, by base type,
            > > to the CONTAINS tag for the quiver. Note though that it is unlikely
            > > that we will be able to cover every possibility that might come up and
            > > as the rule is purely subjective, i.e. 'same general size and shape',
            > > there will likely be differences of opinion on what will and will not
            > > fit.
            > >
            > > The second issue I see is with the syntax of the tag itself. The tag
            > > is coded thus:
            > >
            > > CONTAINS:*UNLIM|Arrow=60|Javelin=18|Total=6|Bow=6|Spear=6|Staff=6
            > >
            > > As I was lead to believe, the Arrow and Javelin entries are not
            > > effected by the Total entry while the Bow, Spear and Staff entries are
            > > restricted to a maximum of 6 items between all three equipment types.
            > > It appears that this is not so.
            > >
            > > I created a first level character and equipped an Efficient Quiver. I
            > > then placed individually a staff and a bundle of arrows in the quiver.
            > > I could not place both in the quiver at the same time. I could, on the
            > > other hand, place a single arrow and a staff in the quiver. This leads
            > > me to believe that the 'Total=z' is not position dependant and that it
            > > currently applies to ALL objects in the container.
            > >
            > > So, we need at least three trackers. Two Data and one Code:
            > >
            > > Data Tracker - Add 'Staff' type to the weapon Quarterstaff.
            > >
            > > Data Tracker - Add items with the same general size and shape to the
            > > arrow, Javelin and bow to the Efficient Quiver's CONTAINS tag.
            > >
            > > Code Tracker - Make the 'Total=z' subtag position dependant, i.e.
            > > allow for CONTAINS:x|y1=z1|Total=z2|y3=z3|y4=z4|Total=z5|y6=z6|y7=z7
            >
            > Another possibility to consider since PCGen cannot currently handle the
            > complexity of the load limitations is to just make it completely unlimited
            > and let the user police the restrictions.
            > --
            > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            > ~ PCGen Board of Directors
            > ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second

            Sounds like this discussion should move to experimental...

            K
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