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  • Mark Arnold
    Hi Guys, I quite like the software, but it is fairly complex. It has some niggles and so forth, but anything that fully represents a pen and paper RPG ruleset
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
      Hi Guys,
      I quite like the software, but it is fairly complex. It has some niggles
      and so forth, but anything that fully represents a pen and paper RPG ruleset
      is going to be complex by its nature. So!

      I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this? This mailing
      list is a very poor substitute.

      - Mark


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andrew Maitland
      Mark Arnold wrote: Hi Mark, ... Yeah, supporting the various incarnations of several generations of d20, from 3e first incarnation, to 3.5 and all that has
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
        Mark Arnold wrote:

        Hi Mark,
        > Hi Guys,
        > I quite like the software, but it is fairly complex. It has some niggles
        > and so forth, but anything that fully represents a pen and paper RPG ruleset
        > is going to be complex by its nature. So!
        >

        Yeah, supporting the various incarnations of several generations of d20,
        from 3e first incarnation, to 3.5 and all that has come since, it's been
        an interesting road. PCGen has continued to make strides and bounds.
        We've still got a nice road ahead of us to what we can accomplish and
        get PCGen to do. But in the mean time, we can support thousands of
        published material today.
        > I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?

        Yahoo groups is the best solution at hand. Some people want a forum like
        quality (Which the web interface provides) others like the mailing
        solution (which I'm fond of). However, we have several projects on the
        burner - we had a drupal attempt, but the support/features just weren't
        up to spec for us. Now, we are trying Joomla, unfortunately the main guy
        for that has been very busy, and the other qualified guy is working on
        pcgen bug stomping (And I really don't want to pull a coder to work on a
        plugin).
        > This mailing list is a very poor substitute.
        >

        *ducks for cover* For the incoming firestorm. The forum vs. mailing list
        is a very hot button issue. Yahoo is the middle ground people agreed on.
        Until we have a solution that provides both functionality and features
        better than Yahoo, we're stuck with what we have.

        Now, before we do get fireworks, let me say that everyone is entitled to
        their opinion. We work with what is best for the majority of the
        community. We have tireless monkeys who stay on top of keeping the
        documentation up to date. If you can't find an answer in the docs, then
        you ask here. Myself and several other monkeys are up at all hours of
        the day (Gotta love being international) who can answer questions, offer
        advice or even change the program. This is a wonderful program/project
        that exists because of volunteers. Which means we go at the pace of a
        volunteer organization. If you have suggestions, or are willing to
        donate time, expertise or anything else helpful, then I'm all ears. The
        best thing people can give us, is time and help. That means something is
        being worked on. So which team did you want to volunteer for ? :)

        > - Mark
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --

        Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
        Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      • Tir Gwaith
        ... That s been a hot topic. I ll do a good summation.. There are a number of developers that won t bother with a forum (I won t even visit one because it
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
          > I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?  This mailing
          > list is a very poor substitute.

          That's been a hot topic. I'll do a good summation.. There are a
          number of developers that won't bother with a forum (I won't even
          visit one because it eats up time navigating that I'd rather spend on
          something else), but will follow an email list. We haven't found a
          forum solution that does both, so we're sticking with the method we
          have.

          Tir Gwaith
          PCGen LST Chimp
        • Anestis Kozakis
          ... With e-mail lists, the e-mails come to you into your e-mail client and to your computer, and you cna quickly delete multiple messages in one hit that you
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 6, 2009
            2009/10/7 Tir Gwaith <Tir.Gwaith@...>:
            >> I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?  This mailing
            >> list is a very poor substitute.
            >
            > That's been a hot topic.  I'll do a good summation..  There are a
            > number of developers that won't bother with a forum (I won't even
            > visit one because it eats up time navigating that I'd rather spend on
            > something else), but will follow an email list.  We haven't found a
            > forum solution that does both, so we're sticking with the method we
            > have.
            >
            > Tir Gwaith
            > PCGen LST Chimp

            With e-mail lists, the e-mails come to you into your e-mail client and
            to your computer, and you cna quickly delete multiple messages in one
            hit that you don't wish to read.

            Forums, you have to go to them, navigate the various threads and
            topics, and it eats up a lot of time.

            Just my opinion.

            --
            Anestis Kozakis | kenosti@... | http://www.akozakis.id.au/
          • Andrew Wilson
            ... Mostly because forums are a big sucky time drain with a crap interface. They re a mailing list done wrong. YMMV. andrew
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 7, 2009
              2009/10/7 Mark Arnold <marnoldster@...>:
              > I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?  This mailing
              > list is a very poor substitute.

              Mostly because forums are a big sucky time drain with a crap interface.

              They're a mailing list done wrong.

              YMMV.

              andrew
            • mark_cstrike
              Wow I m flabbergasted... I ve never heard of people being anti-forum before. I can tell you as a newcomer - they re sorely needed. I can tell you as someone
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 7, 2009
                Wow I'm flabbergasted... I've never heard of people being anti-forum before. I can tell you as a newcomer - they're sorely needed. I can tell you as someone who uses forums for every other product he has ever touched, a mailing list is a real pain.

                You guys run the show, so its up to you, but from MY point of view I'm going to miss out on everything PCgen because I don't have the inclination to read every post that comes buzzing this way, and would have preferred to cut through the chaff with topical browsing and searching, honing in on stickies, and reviewing interesting tidbits and historical notes.

                Sorry, didn't want to start a war, so I won't go any further into the whys and why nots. A mailing list aint for me though.

                --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                >
                > Mark Arnold wrote:
                >
                > Hi Mark,
                > > Hi Guys,
                > > I quite like the software, but it is fairly complex. It has some niggles
                > > and so forth, but anything that fully represents a pen and paper RPG ruleset
                > > is going to be complex by its nature. So!
                > >
                >
                > Yeah, supporting the various incarnations of several generations of d20,
                > from 3e first incarnation, to 3.5 and all that has come since, it's been
                > an interesting road. PCGen has continued to make strides and bounds.
                > We've still got a nice road ahead of us to what we can accomplish and
                > get PCGen to do. But in the mean time, we can support thousands of
                > published material today.
                > > I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?
                >
                > Yahoo groups is the best solution at hand. Some people want a forum like
                > quality (Which the web interface provides) others like the mailing
                > solution (which I'm fond of). However, we have several projects on the
                > burner - we had a drupal attempt, but the support/features just weren't
                > up to spec for us. Now, we are trying Joomla, unfortunately the main guy
                > for that has been very busy, and the other qualified guy is working on
                > pcgen bug stomping (And I really don't want to pull a coder to work on a
                > plugin).
                > > This mailing list is a very poor substitute.
                > >
                >
                > *ducks for cover* For the incoming firestorm. The forum vs. mailing list
                > is a very hot button issue. Yahoo is the middle ground people agreed on.
                > Until we have a solution that provides both functionality and features
                > better than Yahoo, we're stuck with what we have.
                >
                > Now, before we do get fireworks, let me say that everyone is entitled to
                > their opinion. We work with what is best for the majority of the
                > community. We have tireless monkeys who stay on top of keeping the
                > documentation up to date. If you can't find an answer in the docs, then
                > you ask here. Myself and several other monkeys are up at all hours of
                > the day (Gotta love being international) who can answer questions, offer
                > advice or even change the program. This is a wonderful program/project
                > that exists because of volunteers. Which means we go at the pace of a
                > volunteer organization. If you have suggestions, or are willing to
                > donate time, expertise or anything else helpful, then I'm all ears. The
                > best thing people can give us, is time and help. That means something is
                > being worked on. So which team did you want to volunteer for ? :)
                >
                > > - Mark
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                >
                > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                >
              • Michael W. Fender
                Accessing file 31980.7503.26808 ... Shucks, you didn t start a war. -- Fluxxdog The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 7, 2009
                  Accessing file 31980.7503.26808

                  Data from user mark is as follows:

                  > Sorry, didn't want to start a war

                  Shucks, you didn't start a war.
                  --
                  Fluxxdog

                  The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                  think.
                • Tir Gwaith
                  ... It is a matter of support. We have more depth on the team than we used to, but it is still thin, and all volunteer. Forums take more effort from the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 7, 2009
                    On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 8:33 AM, mark_cstrike <marnoldster@...> wrote:
                    > Wow I'm flabbergasted... I've never heard of people being anti-forum before.  I can tell you as a newcomer - they're sorely needed.  I can tell you as someone who uses forums for every other product he has ever touched, a mailing list is a real pain.
                    >

                    It is a matter of support. We have more depth on the team than we
                    used to, but it is still thin, and all volunteer. Forums take more
                    effort from the support side, both maintaining the forums (we'd have
                    to host, etc.) and for the various support ppl to wade through and
                    cover questions.

                    We have been working on a solution that will allow forum abilities,
                    without hurting the efficiency for (or driving off) our team.

                    Tir Gwaith
                    PCGen LST Chimp
                  • Brad Stiles
                    Whatever solution that Baen Books uses for their forums (bar.baen.com) does both. I am told, however, that the forum side of that really sucks... I ve often
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 7, 2009
                      Whatever solution that Baen Books uses for their forums (bar.baen.com)
                      does both. I am told, however, that the forum side of that really
                      sucks...

                      I've often wondered what it would take to use an existing mailing list
                      solution, and expose some of the internals so that a BBS could access
                      the mail.

                      On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Tir Gwaith <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                      >> I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?  This mailing
                      >> list is a very poor substitute.
                      >
                      > That's been a hot topic.  I'll do a good summation..  There are a
                      > number of developers that won't bother with a forum (I won't even
                      > visit one because it eats up time navigating that I'd rather spend on
                      > something else), but will follow an email list.  We haven't found a
                      > forum solution that does both, so we're sticking with the method we
                      > have.
                      >
                      > Tir Gwaith
                      > PCGen LST Chimp
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Related Lists
                      > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                      > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                      > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                      > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                      >
                      > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                      >
                      > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      > (for new official data source development)
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • karianna03
                      We haven t found a solution that works adequately yet, it seems nobody else in the world has our exact requirements, which means we need to custom build in
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 8, 2009
                        We haven't found a solution that works adequately yet, it seems nobody else in the world has our exact requirements, which means we need to custom build in some sort of system which we have no volunteers for, so at the moment, it's status quo.

                        K

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Brad Stiles <bradley.stiles@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Whatever solution that Baen Books uses for their forums (bar.baen.com)
                        > does both. I am told, however, that the forum side of that really
                        > sucks...
                        >
                        > I've often wondered what it would take to use an existing mailing list
                        > solution, and expose some of the internals so that a BBS could access
                        > the mail.
                        >
                        > On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Tir Gwaith <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                        > >> I was wondering - why on earth are there not forums for this?  This mailing
                        > >> list is a very poor substitute.
                        > >
                        > > That's been a hot topic.  I'll do a good summation..  There are a
                        > > number of developers that won't bother with a forum (I won't even
                        > > visit one because it eats up time navigating that I'd rather spend on
                        > > something else), but will follow an email list.  We haven't found a
                        > > forum solution that does both, so we're sticking with the method we
                        > > have.
                        > >
                        > > Tir Gwaith
                        > > PCGen LST Chimp
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > Related Lists
                        > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > > PCGen's Wiki: http://wiki.pcgen.org/
                        > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://wiki.pcgen.org/index.php?title=Roadmap
                        > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                        > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                        > >
                        > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        > >
                        > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > > (for new official data source development)
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Jeff Miller
                        I prefer mailing lists, myself. ... -- Jeff Miller http://businesscredittips.weebly.com Voice: 949-249-3673 Skype: shadocat2 [Non-text portions of this message
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 8, 2009
                          I prefer mailing lists, myself.

                          karianna03 wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > We haven't found a solution that works adequately yet, it seems nobody
                          > else in the world has our exact requirements, which means we need to
                          > custom build in some sort of system which we have no volunteers for,
                          > so at the moment, it's status quo.
                          >
                          > K
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --


                          Jeff Miller
                          http://businesscredittips.weebly.com
                          Voice: 949-249-3673
                          Skype: shadocat2







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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