Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [pcgen] [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation

Expand Messages
  • Natalie Holeman
    Please forgive a question, that is about the spell Reincarnate rather than the implementation in PCGen, but comments posted here have caused me to rethink
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Please forgive a question, that is about the spell "Reincarnate" rather than the implementation in PCGen, but comments posted here have caused me to rethink what we have done to player characters in our group. 
       
      If a character changes from grey elf (+2int +2dex -2str -2con) to dwarf (+2con -2cha) are you saying they should end up with racial bonuses of (+2int, +2con)? 
       
      We did not deny players skills previously gained as to number of ranks or feat because I know how to edit the character data file, but we would allow the stat changes to effect skill levels and requirements to do things.  For one unlucky 16th level mage, the use of some of their spells (went from grey elf to lizardman so lost 4 int  -- 21-4=17 so highest spell able to cast is 7th level).

      --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:


      From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
      Subject: Re: [pcgen] [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation
      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:17 AM








      2817282 Reincarnation FREQ for Michael...
      <https://sourceforge .net/tracker/ ?func=detail& aid=2817282& group_id= 25576&atid= 750092>

      Odd, it's up for me... must be only down for very short periods.

      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"

      Michael W. Fender wrote:
      > Sourceforge is down at the moment for me. They've noted intermittent outages
      > and... I guess intermittent is now!
      >
      > Making a note that this needs to be trackered in Data FReqs:
      >
      > [*SRD] Reincarnation Templates
      > The basic premise is applying the stat adjustments and abilities, but not
      > interfering with some of what the base race has.
      >
      > Issues:
      > Remove Physical Stat adjustment of old race
      > Apply physical stat adjustments of new race
      > Reduce HD by one (or, if LV 1, -2 CON)
      > Add racial abilities as appropriate. Reincarnate seems to imply anything
      > physical, such as movement and speed, natural armor, natural attacks, and
      > extraordinary abilties. It doesn't go as far to say that supernatural or
      > spell-like are added, simply because this could overpower a creature.
      >
      > Races listed under Reincarnation (14 total):
      > Bugbear
      > Dwarf
      > Elf
      > Gnoll
      > Gnome
      > Goblin
      > Half-elf
      > Half-orc
      > Halfling
      > Human
      > Kobold
      > Lizardfolk
      > Orc
      > Troglodyte
      >
      > As far as calling what goes and what doesn't, consider the Gnome:
      > +2 Constitution, -2 Strength - obviously
      > * Small size - PCGen should automatically change the bonuses and penalties for
      > size (i.e. BONUS:SIZEMOD| NUMBER|-1)
      > * Gnome base land speed is 20 feet - easy enough
      > * Low-Light Vision - This would be considered Extraordinary
      > * Automatic Languages - already nixed by the spell description
      >
      > * Spell-Like Abilities - doesn't seem like it should apply as they're not
      > truly Extraordinary
      > * Favored Class - the base race should be determining the favored class
      >
      > The following could have issues:
      > * Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons
      > rather than exotic weapons
      > * +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions
      > * Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells
      > cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects
      > * +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids
      > * +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type
      > * +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
      > * +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
      >
      > Are these considered a racial traits or a common training for gnomes as
      > they're growing up? In the end, the RSRD does list all these traits as
      > Extraordinary.
      >
      > Accessing file 12288.21000. 10305
      >
      > Data from user Andrew is as follows:
      >
      >
      >> Yeah, might as well. Not sure how easy it will be to implement.
      >>
      >> Though the answer to the question is correct, changing a race is easy,
      >> the stuff tackled on by virtue of reincarnation is not so easily dealt
      >> with.
      >>
      >> Perhaps a simple thing of Template - Race Changed to... Leaving the Base
      >> Race alone.
      >>
      >> I don't know, I'm too tired to think it through at this point.
      >>
      >> That does sound like an awful lot of work for something that does get
      >> seen that often.
      >>
      >
      >
      >> Michael W. Fender wrote:
      >>
      >>> Accessing file 32510.4440.15769
      >>>
      >>> Data from user Andrew is as follows:
      >>>
      >>>> ainvarg wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>>> After some puzzling, I'm tickled to say I've figured out most of what I
      >>>>> was missing for my primary character without posting to the forums, but
      >>>>> I have one significant roadblock remaining (and a smaller one I will
      >>>>> save for a later post).
      >>>>>
      >>>>> My seventh-level character got a little too much quality time with a
      >>>>> tyrannosaurus' maw, leading to his reincarnation as a gnoll. I've been
      >>>>> unable to determine how to record the change in PCGen.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> If I recreate him from scratch starting as a gnoll, the skills will be
      >>>>> wrong. But I don't think I can change his race in mid-stream. Or can
      >>>>> I?
      >>>>>
      >>>> Easy, change the race from what he was, to what he is. Or in your case,
      >>>> simply change the race to Gnoll.
      >>>>
      >>>> That is the easiest question I've had in a long time. Thanks. :)
      >>>>
      >>> Too bad the answer's wrong.
      >>>
      >>> Reincarnating a creature is difficult. You can't just change the race,
      >>> since that applies not only the physical changes (which is normal) but
      >>> the mental changes as well (which you're not supposed to do).
      >>>
      >>> Also, a human changing into another race is not supposed to lose their
      >>> bonus feat or skill points.
      >>>
      >>> Finally they gain the new racial abilities, but not the automatic
      >>> languages.
      >>>
      >>> In the case of changing to a Gnoll, they don't automatically learn Gnoll
      >>> and shouldn't suffer the penalty to INT and CHA, nor should they suddenly
      >>> be overspending a feat and 10 skill points.
      >>>
      >>> In all honesty, I think we're missing templates for Reincarnation. That
      >>> might be a new project that'll have to be touched upon.
      >>>
      >>> Should we tracker this for Data?
      >>>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • ainvarg
      You d be welcome if it worked. I tried that, thanks. The software did not respond at all when I tried to save the change.
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        You'd be welcome if it worked. I tried that, thanks. The software did not respond at all when I tried to save the change.

        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
        >
        > Easy, change the race from what he was, to what he is. Or in your case,
        > simply change the race to Gnoll.
        >
        > That is the easiest question I've had in a long time. Thanks. :)
        >
        > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
        > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
        > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
        > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
        >
        >
        >
        > ainvarg wrote:
        > > After some puzzling, I'm tickled to say I've figured out most of what I was missing for my primary character without posting to the forums, but I have one significant roadblock remaining (and a smaller one I will save for a later post).
        > >
        > > My seventh-level character got a little too much quality time with a tyrannosaurus' maw, leading to his reincarnation as a gnoll. I've been unable to determine how to record the change in PCGen.
        > >
        > > If I recreate him from scratch starting as a gnoll, the skills will be wrong. But I don't think I can change his race in mid-stream. Or can I?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Related Lists
        > > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
        > > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
        > > PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
        > > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
        > > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
        > > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
        > >
        > > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
        > > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
        > >
        > > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
        > > (for new official data source development)
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • ainvarg
        Oh, wow - wasn t trying to start a new thread of fixes. As Andrew said, this probably doesn t come up a lot. I was just hoping someone could tell me how to
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Oh, wow - wasn't trying to start a new thread of fixes. As Andrew said, this probably doesn't come up a lot.

          I was just hoping someone could tell me how to approximate it in the software, not engineer a whole new fix.

          For what it's worth, the plan appears to be right on.

          Thanks for the quick responses to both questions, folks!

          --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender" <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
          >
          > Accessing file 6653.23666.28432
          >
          > Data from user Andrew is as follows:
          >
          > > 2817282 Reincarnation FREQ for Michael...
          > > <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2817282&group_id=25576&at
          > >id=750092>
          > >
          > > Odd, it's up for me... must be only down for very short periods.
          >
          > Many thanks!
          > --
          > Fluxxdog
          >
          > The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
          > think.
          >
        • Michael W. Fender
          Accessing file 4230.20110.2045 ... Eh, it ll be another project for me. I ve got myself back on track with AEG Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Accessing file 4230.20110.2045

            Data from user ainvarg is as follows:

            > Oh, wow - wasn't trying to start a new thread of fixes. As Andrew said,
            > this probably doesn't come up a lot.
            >
            > I was just hoping someone could tell me how to approximate it in the
            > software, not engineer a whole new fix.
            >
            > For what it's worth, the plan appears to be right on.
            >
            > Thanks for the quick responses to both questions, folks!

            Eh, it'll be another project for me. I've got myself back on track with AEG
            Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in the next couple weeks. Then
            Ill have something new to play with ^^

            And sometimes, things like this can lead to an improvement for the whole
            program. Never really know until you try.

            --
            Fluxxdog

            The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
            think.
          • ainvarg
            The way we interpreted it in my case was the elven physical ability adjustments (+2 Dex, -2 Con) were removed and the gnoll physical ability adjustments were
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              The way we interpreted it in my case was the elven physical ability adjustments (+2 Dex, -2 Con) were removed and the gnoll physical ability adjustments were applied (+4 Str, +2 Con, iirc).

              In the case you describe, I think he would keep the mental ability adjustment (+2 Int) and lose the physical ability adjustments (+2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Con) of the gray elf, which would be replaced with the physical ability adjustment of the dwarf (+2 Con). So to say it simply, yes, I think he's going to have a total ability adjustment of +2 Int and +2 Con when all is said and done.

              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Natalie Holeman <talia_egh@...> wrote:
              >
              > Please forgive a question, that is about the spell "Reincarnate" rather than the implementation in PCGen, but comments posted here have caused me to rethink what we have done to player characters in our group. 
              >  
              > If a character changes from grey elf (+2int +2dex -2str -2con) to dwarf (+2con -2cha) are you saying they should end up with racial bonuses of (+2int, +2con)? 
              >  
              > We did not deny players skills previously gained as to number of ranks or feat because I know how to edit the character data file, but we would allow the stat changes to effect skill levels and requirements to do things.  For one unlucky 16th level mage, the use of some of their spells (went from grey elf to lizardman so lost 4 int  -- 21-4=17 so highest spell able to cast is 7th level).
              >
              > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...>
              > Subject: Re: [pcgen] [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation
              > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:17 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > 2817282 Reincarnation FREQ for Michael...
              > <https://sourceforge .net/tracker/ ?func=detail& aid=2817282& group_id= 25576&atid= 750092>
              >
              > Odd, it's up for me... must be only down for very short periods.
              >
              > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
              > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
              > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
              > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
              >
              > Michael W. Fender wrote:
              > > Sourceforge is down at the moment for me. They've noted intermittent outages
              > > and... I guess intermittent is now!
              > >
              > > Making a note that this needs to be trackered in Data FReqs:
              > >
              > > [*SRD] Reincarnation Templates
              > > The basic premise is applying the stat adjustments and abilities, but not
              > > interfering with some of what the base race has.
              > >
              > > Issues:
              > > Remove Physical Stat adjustment of old race
              > > Apply physical stat adjustments of new race
              > > Reduce HD by one (or, if LV 1, -2 CON)
              > > Add racial abilities as appropriate. Reincarnate seems to imply anything
              > > physical, such as movement and speed, natural armor, natural attacks, and
              > > extraordinary abilties. It doesn't go as far to say that supernatural or
              > > spell-like are added, simply because this could overpower a creature.
              > >
              > > Races listed under Reincarnation (14 total):
              > > Bugbear
              > > Dwarf
              > > Elf
              > > Gnoll
              > > Gnome
              > > Goblin
              > > Half-elf
              > > Half-orc
              > > Halfling
              > > Human
              > > Kobold
              > > Lizardfolk
              > > Orc
              > > Troglodyte
              > >
              > > As far as calling what goes and what doesn't, consider the Gnome:
              > > +2 Constitution, -2 Strength - obviously
              > > * Small size - PCGen should automatically change the bonuses and penalties for
              > > size (i.e. BONUS:SIZEMOD| NUMBER|-1)
              > > * Gnome base land speed is 20 feet - easy enough
              > > * Low-Light Vision - This would be considered Extraordinary
              > > * Automatic Languages - already nixed by the spell description
              > >
              > > * Spell-Like Abilities - doesn't seem like it should apply as they're not
              > > truly Extraordinary
              > > * Favored Class - the base race should be determining the favored class
              > >
              > > The following could have issues:
              > > * Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons
              > > rather than exotic weapons
              > > * +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions
              > > * Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells
              > > cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects
              > > * +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids
              > > * +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type
              > > * +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
              > > * +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
              > >
              > > Are these considered a racial traits or a common training for gnomes as
              > > they're growing up? In the end, the RSRD does list all these traits as
              > > Extraordinary.
              > >
              > > Accessing file 12288.21000. 10305
              > >
              > > Data from user Andrew is as follows:
              > >
              > >
              > >> Yeah, might as well. Not sure how easy it will be to implement.
              > >>
              > >> Though the answer to the question is correct, changing a race is easy,
              > >> the stuff tackled on by virtue of reincarnation is not so easily dealt
              > >> with.
              > >>
              > >> Perhaps a simple thing of Template - Race Changed to... Leaving the Base
              > >> Race alone.
              > >>
              > >> I don't know, I'm too tired to think it through at this point.
              > >>
              > >> That does sound like an awful lot of work for something that does get
              > >> seen that often.
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >> Michael W. Fender wrote:
              > >>
              > >>> Accessing file 32510.4440.15769
              > >>>
              > >>> Data from user Andrew is as follows:
              > >>>
              > >>>> ainvarg wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>>> After some puzzling, I'm tickled to say I've figured out most of what I
              > >>>>> was missing for my primary character without posting to the forums, but
              > >>>>> I have one significant roadblock remaining (and a smaller one I will
              > >>>>> save for a later post).
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> My seventh-level character got a little too much quality time with a
              > >>>>> tyrannosaurus' maw, leading to his reincarnation as a gnoll. I've been
              > >>>>> unable to determine how to record the change in PCGen.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> If I recreate him from scratch starting as a gnoll, the skills will be
              > >>>>> wrong. But I don't think I can change his race in mid-stream. Or can
              > >>>>> I?
              > >>>>>
              > >>>> Easy, change the race from what he was, to what he is. Or in your case,
              > >>>> simply change the race to Gnoll.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> That is the easiest question I've had in a long time. Thanks. :)
              > >>>>
              > >>> Too bad the answer's wrong.
              > >>>
              > >>> Reincarnating a creature is difficult. You can't just change the race,
              > >>> since that applies not only the physical changes (which is normal) but
              > >>> the mental changes as well (which you're not supposed to do).
              > >>>
              > >>> Also, a human changing into another race is not supposed to lose their
              > >>> bonus feat or skill points.
              > >>>
              > >>> Finally they gain the new racial abilities, but not the automatic
              > >>> languages.
              > >>>
              > >>> In the case of changing to a Gnoll, they don't automatically learn Gnoll
              > >>> and shouldn't suffer the penalty to INT and CHA, nor should they suddenly
              > >>> be overspending a feat and 10 skill points.
              > >>>
              > >>> In all honesty, I think we're missing templates for Reincarnation. That
              > >>> might be a new project that'll have to be touched upon.
              > >>>
              > >>> Should we tracker this for Data?
              > >>>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Michael W. Fender
              Accessing file 18164.20151.3643 ... The way it s read, they keep their INT bonus but don t get the CHA penalty. As for their other stats, they d basically get
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 6, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Accessing file 18164.20151.3643

                Data from user Natalie is as follows:

                > Please forgive a question, that is about the spell "Reincarnate" rather
                > than the implementation in PCGen, but comments posted here have caused me
                > to rethink what we have done to player characters in our group.

                > If a character changes from grey elf (+2int +2dex -2str -2con) to dwarf
                > (+2con -2cha) are you saying they should end up with racial bonuses of
                > (+2int, +2con)?

                The way it's read, they keep their INT bonus but don't get the CHA penalty.
                As for their other stats, they'd basically get +2 STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON. That's
                the net effect of reincarnating an elf into a dwarf.

                > We did not deny players skills previously gained as to number of ranks or
                > feat because I know how to edit the character data file, but we would allow
                > the stat changes to effect skill levels and requirements to do things. For
                > one unlucky 16th level mage, the use of some of their spells (went from
                > grey elf to lizardman so lost 4 int -- 21-4=17 so highest spell able to
                > cast is 7th level).

                Here's the thing: With Reincarnate, they should never have lost the
                Intelligence. It's only their Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution that
                should have been adjusted.

                From a game play point of view, it's the same person, just a different body.
                Think of them being permanently polymorphed. So you keep the mental, but
                change the physical.
                --
                Fluxxdog

                The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                think.
              • Natalie Holeman
                ... From: ainvarg Subject: [pcgen] Re: [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com Date:
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 10, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- On Mon, 7/6/09, ainvarg <ainvarg@...> wrote:

                  From: ainvarg <ainvarg@...>
                  Subject: [pcgen] Re: [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation
                  To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 12:36 PM
























                  The way we interpreted it in my case was the elven physical ability adjustments (+2 Dex, -2 Con) were removed and the gnoll physical ability adjustments were applied (+4 Str, +2 Con, iirc).



                  In the case you describe, I think he would keep the mental ability adjustment (+2 Int) and lose the physical ability adjustments (+2 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Con) of the gray elf, which would be replaced with the physical ability adjustment of the dwarf (+2 Con). So to say it simply, yes, I think he's going to have a total ability adjustment of +2 Int and +2 Con when all is said and done.



                  --- In pcgen@yahoogroups. com, Natalie Holeman <talia_egh@. ..> wrote:

                  >

                  > Please forgive a question, that is about the spell "Reincarnate" rather than the implementation in PCGen, but comments posted here have caused me to rethink what we have done to player characters in our group. 

                  >  

                  > If a character changes from grey elf (+2int +2dex -2str -2con) to dwarf (+2con -2cha) are you saying they should end up with racial bonuses of (+2int, +2con)? 

                  >  

                  > We did not deny players skills previously gained as to number of ranks or feat because I know how to edit the character data file, but we would allow the stat changes to effect skill levels and requirements to do things.  For one unlucky 16th level mage, the use of some of their spells (went from grey elf to lizardman so lost 4 int  -- 21-4=17 so highest spell able to cast is 7th level).

                  >

                  > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@.. .> wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  > From: Andrew Maitland <drew0500@.. .>

                  > Subject: Re: [pcgen] [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation

                  > To: pcgen@yahoogroups. com

                  > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:17 AM

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > 2817282 Reincarnation FREQ for Michael...

                  > <https://sourceforge .net/tracker/ ?func=detail& aid=2817282& group_id= 25576&atid= 750092>

                  >

                  > Odd, it's up for me... must be only down for very short periods.

                  >

                  > Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)

                  > Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors

                  > Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin

                  > Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"

                  >

                  > Michael W. Fender wrote:

                  > > Sourceforge is down at the moment for me. They've noted intermittent outages

                  > > and... I guess intermittent is now!

                  > >

                  > > Making a note that this needs to be trackered in Data FReqs:

                  > >

                  > > [*SRD] Reincarnation Templates

                  > > The basic premise is applying the stat adjustments and abilities, but not

                  > > interfering with some of what the base race has.

                  > >

                  > > Issues:

                  > > Remove Physical Stat adjustment of old race

                  > > Apply physical stat adjustments of new race

                  > > Reduce HD by one (or, if LV 1, -2 CON)

                  > > Add racial abilities as appropriate. Reincarnate seems to imply anything

                  > > physical, such as movement and speed, natural armor, natural attacks, and

                  > > extraordinary abilties. It doesn't go as far to say that supernatural or

                  > > spell-like are added, simply because this could overpower a creature.

                  > >

                  > > Races listed under Reincarnation (14 total):

                  > > Bugbear

                  > > Dwarf

                  > > Elf

                  > > Gnoll

                  > > Gnome

                  > > Goblin

                  > > Half-elf

                  > > Half-orc

                  > > Halfling

                  > > Human

                  > > Kobold

                  > > Lizardfolk

                  > > Orc

                  > > Troglodyte

                  > >

                  > > As far as calling what goes and what doesn't, consider the Gnome:

                  > > +2 Constitution, -2 Strength - obviously

                  > > * Small size - PCGen should automatically change the bonuses and penalties for

                  > > size (i.e. BONUS:SIZEMOD| NUMBER|-1)

                  > > * Gnome base land speed is 20 feet - easy enough

                  > > * Low-Light Vision - This would be considered Extraordinary

                  > > * Automatic Languages - already nixed by the spell description

                  > >

                  > > * Spell-Like Abilities - doesn't seem like it should apply as they're not

                  > > truly Extraordinary

                  > > * Favored Class - the base race should be determining the favored class

                  > >

                  > > The following could have issues:

                  > > * Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons

                  > > rather than exotic weapons

                  > > * +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions

                  > > * Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells

                  > > cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects

                  > > * +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids

                  > > * +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type

                  > > * +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.

                  > > * +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.

                  > >

                  > > Are these considered a racial traits or a common training for gnomes as

                  > > they're growing up? In the end, the RSRD does list all these traits as

                  > > Extraordinary.

                  > >

                  > > Accessing file 12288.21000. 10305

                  > >

                  > > Data from user Andrew is as follows:

                  > >

                  > >

                  > >> Yeah, might as well. Not sure how easy it will be to implement.

                  > >>

                  > >> Though the answer to the question is correct, changing a race is easy,

                  > >> the stuff tackled on by virtue of reincarnation is not so easily dealt

                  > >> with.

                  > >>

                  > >> Perhaps a simple thing of Template - Race Changed to... Leaving the Base

                  > >> Race alone.

                  > >>

                  > >> I don't know, I'm too tired to think it through at this point.

                  > >>

                  > >> That does sound like an awful lot of work for something that does get

                  > >> seen that often.

                  > >>

                  > >

                  > >

                  > >> Michael W. Fender wrote:

                  > >>

                  > >>> Accessing file 32510.4440.15769

                  > >>>

                  > >>> Data from user Andrew is as follows:

                  > >>>

                  > >>>> ainvarg wrote:

                  > >>>>

                  > >>>>> After some puzzling, I'm tickled to say I've figured out most of what I

                  > >>>>> was missing for my primary character without posting to the forums, but

                  > >>>>> I have one significant roadblock remaining (and a smaller one I will

                  > >>>>> save for a later post).

                  > >>>>>

                  > >>>>> My seventh-level character got a little too much quality time with a

                  > >>>>> tyrannosaurus' maw, leading to his reincarnation as a gnoll. I've been

                  > >>>>> unable to determine how to record the change in PCGen.

                  > >>>>>

                  > >>>>> If I recreate him from scratch starting as a gnoll, the skills will be

                  > >>>>> wrong. But I don't think I can change his race in mid-stream. Or can

                  > >>>>> I?

                  > >>>>>

                  > >>>> Easy, change the race from what he was, to what he is. Or in your case,

                  > >>>> simply change the race to Gnoll.

                  > >>>>

                  > >>>> That is the easiest question I've had in a long time. Thanks. :)

                  > >>>>

                  > >>> Too bad the answer's wrong.

                  > >>>

                  > >>> Reincarnating a creature is difficult. You can't just change the race,

                  > >>> since that applies not only the physical changes (which is normal) but

                  > >>> the mental changes as well (which you're not supposed to do).

                  > >>>

                  > >>> Also, a human changing into another race is not supposed to lose their

                  > >>> bonus feat or skill points.

                  > >>>

                  > >>> Finally they gain the new racial abilities, but not the automatic

                  > >>> languages.

                  > >>>

                  > >>> In the case of changing to a Gnoll, they don't automatically learn Gnoll

                  > >>> and shouldn't suffer the penalty to INT and CHA, nor should they suddenly

                  > >>> be overspending a feat and 10 skill points.

                  > >>>

                  > >>> In all honesty, I think we're missing templates for Reincarnation. That

                  > >>> might be a new project that'll have to be touched upon.

                  > >>>

                  > >>> Should we tracker this for Data?

                  > >>>

                  > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  > >>

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >




































                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ainvarg
                  Hey, Michael. Any further thoughts on this? Since I can t put my character in PCGen at the moment because of this lack, I thought I d tinker with it some,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hey, Michael. Any further thoughts on this? Since I can't put my character in PCGen at the moment because of this lack, I thought I'd tinker with it some, but didn't want to cover ground you've already got covered. Have you had a chance to look at this? Any chance I can contribute?

                    --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender" <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Accessing file 4230.20110.2045
                    >
                    > Data from user ainvarg is as follows:
                    >
                    > Eh, it'll be another project for me. I've got myself back on track with AEG
                    > Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in the next couple weeks. Then
                    > Ill have something new to play with ^^
                    >
                    > And sometimes, things like this can lead to an improvement for the whole
                    > program. Never really know until you try.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Fluxxdog
                    >
                    > The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                    > think.
                    >
                  • Andrew Maitland
                    Hi, I think the template method might be your best bet. List what you need to change and one of us can walk you through it. -Andrew (At work)
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi,

                      I think the template method might be your best bet.

                      List what you need to change and one of us can walk you through it.

                      -Andrew (At work)




                      ________________________________
                      From: ainvarg <ainvarg@...>
                      To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:31:19 AM
                      Subject: [pcgen] Re: [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation

                      Hey, Michael.  Any further thoughts on this?  Since I can't put my character in PCGen at the moment because of this lack, I thought I'd tinker with it some, but didn't want to cover ground you've already got covered.  Have you had a chance to look at this?  Any chance I can contribute?

                      --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender" <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Accessing file 4230.20110.2045
                      >
                      > Data from user ainvarg is as follows:
                      >
                      > Eh, it'll be another project for me.  I've got myself back on track with AEG
                      > Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in the next couple weeks.  Then
                      > Ill have something new to play with ^^
                      >
                      > And sometimes, things like this can lead to an improvement for the whole
                      > program.  Never really know until you try.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Fluxxdog
                      >
                      > The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                      > think.
                      >




                      ------------------------------------

                      Related Lists
                      PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                      PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                      PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                      PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                      PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                      PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html

                      PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                      (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)

                      PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                      (for new official data source development)
                      Yahoo! Groups Links



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ainvarg
                      Thanks, Andrew! I think I see most of it, but there are a few that are probably globals that I m missing. This is off the top of my head, so I may have some
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks, Andrew!

                        I think I see most of it, but there are a few that are probably globals that I'm missing. This is off the top of my head, so I may have some details missing or wrong, but I should be able to generalize once I see how you translate it into .lst tags.

                        ----------------------
                        I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.

                        I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?

                        I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.

                        Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.

                        I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?

                        I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1

                        Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.

                        --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > I think the template method might be your best bet.
                        >
                        > List what you need to change and one of us can walk you through it.
                        >
                        > -Andrew (At work)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: ainvarg <ainvarg@...>
                        > To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:31:19 AM
                        > Subject: [pcgen] Re: [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation
                        >
                        > Hey, Michael.  Any further thoughts on this?  Since I can't put my character in PCGen at the moment because of this lack, I thought I'd tinker with it some, but didn't want to cover ground you've already got covered.  Have you had a chance to look at this?  Any chance I can contribute?
                        >
                        > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender" <fluxxdog@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Accessing file 4230.20110.2045
                        > >
                        > > Data from user ainvarg is as follows:
                        > >
                        > > Eh, it'll be another project for me.  I've got myself back on track with AEG
                        > > Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in the next couple weeks.  Then
                        > > Ill have something new to play with ^^
                        > >
                        > > And sometimes, things like this can lead to an improvement for the whole
                        > > program.  Never really know until you try.
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Fluxxdog
                        > >
                        > > The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                        > > think.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Related Lists
                        > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                        > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                        > PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                        > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                        > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                        > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                        >
                        > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                        > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                        >
                        > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                        > (for new official data source development)
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Andrew Maitland
                        ... Yeah, throw it in a Template BONUS:STAT|STR|4 BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2 BONUS:STAT|CON|2 ... Correct. ... That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          ainvarg wrote:
                          > Thanks, Andrew!
                          >
                          > I think I see most of it, but there are a few that are probably globals that I'm missing. This is off the top of my head, so I may have some details missing or wrong, but I should be able to generalize once I see how you translate it into .lst tags.
                          >
                          > ----------------------
                          > I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.
                          >

                          Yeah, throw it in a Template
                          BONUS:STAT|STR|4
                          BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2
                          BONUS:STAT|CON|2
                          > I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?
                          >
                          Correct.
                          > I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.
                          >

                          That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it for you, then
                          use this:

                          KIT:1|Incarnate Monster Levels Two

                          Then in the kit file
                          STARTPACK:Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                          CLASS:Monsterous Humanoid <> LEVEL:2

                          Double check the syntax since I'm going off the top of my head on that.
                          > Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.
                          >

                          It should
                          > I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?
                          >

                          Huh, only if you really want, but SA is now SAB. Though this will work
                          VISION:Darkvision (60')

                          Since Vision is it's own tag and will show up.

                          In any event SAB has been displaced by ABILITY using DESC. Just for
                          future reference.

                          If I was doing it as an Ability...

                          ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Darkvision

                          In the ability file
                          Darkvision <> CATEGORY:Special Ability <> TYPE:SpecialQuality <>
                          DESC:60' [OR] DESC:%1|DarkvisionRange
                          DEFINE:DarkvisionRange|0 <> BONUS:VAR|DarkvisionRange|60

                          That would allow an easy method of changing the vision range.

                          > I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1
                          >

                          BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=NaturalArmor
                          > Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.
                          >

                          On a case by case basis currently. BONUS:MOVEADD|TYPE.MovementName|-30
                          Then MOVE:Walk,30 for adding movement of Walk at a base rate of 30.
                          > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Hi,
                          >>
                          >> I think the template method might be your best bet.
                          >>
                          >> List what you need to change and one of us can walk you through it.
                          >>
                          >> -Andrew (At work)
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ________________________________
                          >> From: ainvarg <ainvarg@...>
                          >> To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
                          >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:31:19 AM
                          >> Subject: [pcgen] Re: [Trackered] How to implement race change due to reincarnation
                          >>
                          >> Hey, Michael. Any further thoughts on this? Since I can't put my character in PCGen at the moment because of this lack, I thought I'd tinker with it some, but didn't want to cover ground you've already got covered. Have you had a chance to look at this? Any chance I can contribute?
                          >>
                          >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender" <fluxxdog@> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> Accessing file 4230.20110.2045
                          >>>
                          >>> Data from user ainvarg is as follows:
                          >>>
                          >>> Eh, it'll be another project for me. I've got myself back on track with AEG
                          >>> Feats sourcebook, and should have that done in the next couple weeks. Then
                          >>> Ill have something new to play with ^^
                          >>>
                          >>> And sometimes, things like this can lead to an improvement for the whole
                          >>> program. Never really know until you try.
                          >>>
                          >>> --
                          >>> Fluxxdog
                          >>>
                          >>> The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
                          >>> think.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >> Related Lists
                          >> PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          >> PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                          >> PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                          >> PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          >> PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                          >> PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                          >>
                          >> PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          >> (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          >>
                          >> PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          >> (for new official data source development)
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Related Lists
                          > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                          > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                          > PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                          > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                          > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                          > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                          >
                          > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                          > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                          >
                          > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                          > (for new official data source development)
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          --

                          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                          Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                          Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ainvarg
                          ... These are working -- well, once I realize I d given you the wrong numbers, I got them working. ... I m not sure this is accomplishing what I thought it
                          Message 12 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > ainvarg wrote:
                            > > ----------------------
                            > > I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.
                            > >
                            >
                            > Yeah, throw it in a Template
                            > BONUS:STAT|STR|4
                            > BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2
                            > BONUS:STAT|CON|2

                            These are working -- well, once I realize I'd given you the wrong numbers, I got them working.

                            > > I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?
                            > >
                            > Correct.

                            I'm not sure this is accomplishing what I thought it would. I need the character to gain two levels of monstrous humanoid complete with skills, feats, ability jumps (if appropriate), but in addition he needs to be gaining his xp as though he's yet another (ie, a third) level higher than his character levels. I assumed that this tag would provide that "third" level. Sound right?

                            > > I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.
                            > >
                            > That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it for you, then
                            > use this:
                            >
                            > KIT:1|Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                            >
                            > Then in the kit file
                            > STARTPACK:Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                            > CLASS:Monsterous Humanoid <> LEVEL:2
                            >
                            > Double check the syntax since I'm going off the top of my head on that.

                            It loads without any errors, but it doesn't seem to be including the levels of monstrous humanoid to determine, for example, the number of feats or the number of skills that are due the character. Your qualifier in that statement got me thinking, however. I'm going to see if I can apply RACETYPE in the template and manually add the two levels of monstrous humanoid. Sound reasonable?

                            > > Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.
                            > >
                            >
                            > It should
                            > > I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?
                            > >
                            >
                            > Huh, only if you really want, but SA is now SAB. Though this will work
                            > VISION:Darkvision (60')
                            >
                            > Since Vision is it's own tag and will show up.
                            >
                            > In any event SAB has been displaced by ABILITY using DESC. Just for
                            > future reference.
                            >
                            > If I was doing it as an Ability...
                            >
                            > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Darkvision
                            >
                            > In the ability file
                            > Darkvision <> CATEGORY:Special Ability <> TYPE:SpecialQuality <>
                            > DESC:60' [OR] DESC:%1|DarkvisionRange
                            > DEFINE:DarkvisionRange|0 <> BONUS:VAR|DarkvisionRange|60
                            >
                            > That would allow an easy method of changing the vision range.

                            No need since it's a one-off and not a general solution to the problem. VISION tag is great and works fine.

                            > > I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1
                            > >
                            >
                            > BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=NaturalArmor

                            Got it

                            > > Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.
                            > >
                            >
                            > On a case by case basis currently.

                            Then I'm not worried about these particular changes. Thanks for illustrating, though.

                            BONUS:MOVEADD|TYPE.MovementName|-30
                            > Then MOVE:Walk,30 for adding movement of Walk at a base rate of 30.
                          • ainvarg
                            Not sure why, but setting the RACETYPE in the template doesn t appear to be changing the race from elf to monstrous humanoid. Perhaps there s something more
                            Message 13 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Not sure why, but setting the RACETYPE in the template doesn't appear to be changing the race from elf to monstrous humanoid. Perhaps there's something more than "RACETYPE: Monstrous Humanoid"?

                              I've got it working by ignoring class prereqs, though...

                              --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "ainvarg" <ainvarg@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > ainvarg wrote:
                              > > > ----------------------
                              > > > I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > Yeah, throw it in a Template
                              > > BONUS:STAT|STR|4
                              > > BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2
                              > > BONUS:STAT|CON|2
                              >
                              > These are working -- well, once I realize I'd given you the wrong numbers, I got them working.
                              >
                              > > > I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?
                              > > >
                              > > Correct.
                              >
                              > I'm not sure this is accomplishing what I thought it would. I need the character to gain two levels of monstrous humanoid complete with skills, feats, ability jumps (if appropriate), but in addition he needs to be gaining his xp as though he's yet another (ie, a third) level higher than his character levels. I assumed that this tag would provide that "third" level. Sound right?
                              >
                              > > > I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.
                              > > >
                              > > That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it for you, then
                              > > use this:
                              > >
                              > > KIT:1|Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                              > >
                              > > Then in the kit file
                              > > STARTPACK:Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                              > > CLASS:Monsterous Humanoid <> LEVEL:2
                              > >
                              > > Double check the syntax since I'm going off the top of my head on that.
                              >
                              > It loads without any errors, but it doesn't seem to be including the levels of monstrous humanoid to determine, for example, the number of feats or the number of skills that are due the character. Your qualifier in that statement got me thinking, however. I'm going to see if I can apply RACETYPE in the template and manually add the two levels of monstrous humanoid. Sound reasonable?
                              >
                              > > > Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > It should
                              > > > I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > Huh, only if you really want, but SA is now SAB. Though this will work
                              > > VISION:Darkvision (60')
                              > >
                              > > Since Vision is it's own tag and will show up.
                              > >
                              > > In any event SAB has been displaced by ABILITY using DESC. Just for
                              > > future reference.
                              > >
                              > > If I was doing it as an Ability...
                              > >
                              > > ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Darkvision
                              > >
                              > > In the ability file
                              > > Darkvision <> CATEGORY:Special Ability <> TYPE:SpecialQuality <>
                              > > DESC:60' [OR] DESC:%1|DarkvisionRange
                              > > DEFINE:DarkvisionRange|0 <> BONUS:VAR|DarkvisionRange|60
                              > >
                              > > That would allow an easy method of changing the vision range.
                              >
                              > No need since it's a one-off and not a general solution to the problem. VISION tag is great and works fine.
                              >
                              > > > I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=NaturalArmor
                              >
                              > Got it
                              >
                              > > > Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > On a case by case basis currently.
                              >
                              > Then I'm not worried about these particular changes. Thanks for illustrating, though.
                              >
                              > BONUS:MOVEADD|TYPE.MovementName|-30
                              > > Then MOVE:Walk,30 for adding movement of Walk at a base rate of 30.
                              >
                            • Andrew Maitland
                              ... No space for the first part - RACETYPE:Monstrous Humanoid . Second, RACETYPE won t change the race, just the Race Type. Your Race Type as an Elf is
                              Message 14 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                ainvarg wrote:
                                > Not sure why, but setting the RACETYPE in the template doesn't appear to be changing the race from elf to monstrous humanoid. Perhaps there's something more than "RACETYPE: Monstrous Humanoid"?
                                >

                                No space for the first part - 'RACETYPE:Monstrous Humanoid'. Second,
                                RACETYPE won't change the race, just the Race Type. Your Race Type as an
                                Elf is "Humanoid" with the RACESUBTYPE of Elf. You gave up the Humanoid
                                type for the Monstrous Humanoid. But that won't change the classes or
                                your actual race.


                                > I've got it working by ignoring class prereqs, though...
                                >
                                > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, "ainvarg" <ainvarg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >> --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@> wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> ainvarg wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>> ----------------------
                                >>>> I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> Yeah, throw it in a Template
                                >>> BONUS:STAT|STR|4
                                >>> BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2
                                >>> BONUS:STAT|CON|2
                                >>>
                                >> These are working -- well, once I realize I'd given you the wrong numbers, I got them working.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>> I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> Correct.
                                >>>
                                >> I'm not sure this is accomplishing what I thought it would. I need the character to gain two levels of monstrous humanoid complete with skills, feats, ability jumps (if appropriate), but in addition he needs to be gaining his xp as though he's yet another (ie, a third) level higher than his character levels. I assumed that this tag would provide that "third" level. Sound right?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>> I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it for you, then
                                >>> use this:
                                >>>
                                >>> KIT:1|Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                                >>>
                                >>> Then in the kit file
                                >>> STARTPACK:Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                                >>> CLASS:Monsterous Humanoid <> LEVEL:2
                                >>>
                                >>> Double check the syntax since I'm going off the top of my head on that.
                                >>>
                                >> It loads without any errors, but it doesn't seem to be including the levels of monstrous humanoid to determine, for example, the number of feats or the number of skills that are due the character. Your qualifier in that statement got me thinking, however. I'm going to see if I can apply RACETYPE in the template and manually add the two levels of monstrous humanoid. Sound reasonable?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>> Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> It should
                                >>>
                                >>>> I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> Huh, only if you really want, but SA is now SAB. Though this will work
                                >>> VISION:Darkvision (60')
                                >>>
                                >>> Since Vision is it's own tag and will show up.
                                >>>
                                >>> In any event SAB has been displaced by ABILITY using DESC. Just for
                                >>> future reference.
                                >>>
                                >>> If I was doing it as an Ability...
                                >>>
                                >>> ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Darkvision
                                >>>
                                >>> In the ability file
                                >>> Darkvision <> CATEGORY:Special Ability <> TYPE:SpecialQuality <>
                                >>> DESC:60' [OR] DESC:%1|DarkvisionRange
                                >>> DEFINE:DarkvisionRange|0 <> BONUS:VAR|DarkvisionRange|60
                                >>>
                                >>> That would allow an easy method of changing the vision range.
                                >>>
                                >> No need since it's a one-off and not a general solution to the problem. VISION tag is great and works fine.
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>> I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=NaturalArmor
                                >>>
                                >> Got it
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>>> Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>> On a case by case basis currently.
                                >>>
                                >> Then I'm not worried about these particular changes. Thanks for illustrating, though.
                                >>
                                >> BONUS:MOVEADD|TYPE.MovementName|-30
                                >>
                                >>> Then MOVE:Walk,30 for adding movement of Walk at a base rate of 30.
                                >>>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Related Lists
                                > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                                > PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                >
                                > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                >
                                > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                > (for new official data source development)
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                --

                                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Andrew Maitland
                                ... Well, I m working with what you give. Oh, BTW, we really should be discussing the lst aspects on the Pcgen List File Help Group and not the general list.
                                Message 15 of 22 , Aug 13, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  ainvarg wrote:
                                  > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> ainvarg wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> ----------------------
                                  >>> I need to remove racial modifiers to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON) from the original race and add racial modifiers to physical stats for the reincarnated race. If we need specifics for a one-off solution, it's -2 to DEX, +4 to STR, +2 to CON.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> Yeah, throw it in a Template
                                  >> BONUS:STAT|STR|4
                                  >> BONUS:STAT|DEX|-2
                                  >> BONUS:STAT|CON|2
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > These are working -- well, once I realize I'd given you the wrong numbers, I got them working.
                                  >

                                  Well, I'm working with what you give. Oh, BTW, we really should be
                                  discussing the lst aspects on the Pcgen List File Help Group and not the
                                  general list. But we'll let it pass this time around.
                                  >
                                  >>> I need to add a Level Adjustment of +1 -- it appears that LEVELADJUSTMENT:1 is the tag for that, right?
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> Correct.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure this is accomplishing what I thought it would. I need the character to gain two levels of monstrous humanoid complete with skills, feats, ability jumps (if appropriate), but in addition he needs to be gaining his xp as though he's yet another (ie, a third) level higher than his character levels. I assumed that this tag would provide that "third" level. Sound right?
                                  >

                                  What that does is Add a 'fake' level to your character... Like How Drow
                                  are ECL+3, LEVELADJUSTMENT:3 makes pcgen think they are two level higher
                                  for XP needed to level, no adding of HD, or Skills or anything else.
                                  >
                                  >>> I need to add two levels of Monstrous Humanoid. Looking at the docs, I see HD and HITDIE, but don't get the feeling that either is what I'm looking for, quite.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> That is a little more tricky, if you want PCGen to do it for you, then
                                  >> use this:
                                  >>
                                  >> KIT:1|Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                                  >>
                                  >> Then in the kit file
                                  >> STARTPACK:Incarnate Monster Levels Two
                                  >> CLASS:Monsterous Humanoid <> LEVEL:2
                                  >>
                                  >> Double check the syntax since I'm going off the top of my head on that.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > It loads without any errors, but it doesn't seem to be including the levels of monstrous humanoid to determine, for example, the number of feats or the number of skills that are due the character. Your qualifier in that statement got me thinking, however. I'm going to see if I can apply RACETYPE in the template and manually add the two levels of monstrous humanoid. Sound reasonable?
                                  >

                                  You can try with that method. If it didn't add the levels, then I'll
                                  need to look at it. You can apply a Template via Kit which would solve
                                  that issue of meeting the PREREQs.
                                  >
                                  >>> Those two levels should provide me with 2 levels' worth of skill points (2+Int Mod for monstrous humanoid). The class skills are Listen and Spot.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> It should
                                  >>
                                  >>> I believe I can use the SA tag to add Darkvision, right?
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> Huh, only if you really want, but SA is now SAB. Though this will work
                                  >> VISION:Darkvision (60')
                                  >>
                                  >> Since Vision is it's own tag and will show up.
                                  >>
                                  >> In any event SAB has been displaced by ABILITY using DESC. Just for
                                  >> future reference.
                                  >>
                                  >> If I was doing it as an Ability...
                                  >>
                                  >> ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|Darkvision
                                  >>
                                  >> In the ability file
                                  >> Darkvision <> CATEGORY:Special Ability <> TYPE:SpecialQuality <>
                                  >> DESC:60' [OR] DESC:%1|DarkvisionRange
                                  >> DEFINE:DarkvisionRange|0 <> BONUS:VAR|DarkvisionRange|60
                                  >>
                                  >> That would allow an easy method of changing the vision range.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > No need since it's a one-off and not a general solution to the problem. VISION tag is great and works fine.
                                  >

                                  Just illuminating the full range of possibilities. What is creative is
                                  if you take the VarName and place it in the vision tag...

                                  VISION:Darkvision (0')
                                  BONUS:VISION|Darkvision|DarkvisionRange

                                  Handy when you need to code feats/abilities that add to your Darkvision
                                  range...
                                  >
                                  >>> I need to add Natural Armor bonus of +1
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> BONUS:COMBAT|AC|1|TYPE=NaturalArmor
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > Got it
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>> Movement type and speed did not change in this case, but in a general case, we would need to remove the current movement type and speed and replace them with the new forms'.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >> On a case by case basis currently.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  > Then I'm not worried about these particular changes. Thanks for illustrating, though.
                                  >

                                  Your welcome
                                  > BONUS:MOVEADD|TYPE.MovementName|-30
                                  >
                                  >> Then MOVE:Walk,30 for adding movement of Walk at a base rate of 30.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Related Lists
                                  > PCGen's release site: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net
                                  > PCGen's Wiki: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki
                                  > PCGen's Roadmap: http://www.pcgen-test.org/wiki/index.php?title=Roadmap
                                  > PCGen's alpha build: http://pcgen.sourceforge.net/07_autobuilds.php
                                  > PCGen's Online Docs: http://pcgen-test.org/autobuilds/pcgen-docs/index.html
                                  > PCGen's Backup Autobuilds and Docs: http://pcgen.akozakis.id.au/autobuilds/download.html
                                  >
                                  > PCGen List File Help: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/
                                  > (for assistance in creating new homebrew or official list files)
                                  >
                                  > PCGen Experimental: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/
                                  > (for new official data source development)
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --

                                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                                  Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
                                  Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
                                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.