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RE: [pcgen-xml] Possible solution to class/crossclass skills and max_ranks

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  • Jenni A. Merrifield
    ... [...SNIP...] ... How would this work for exclusive class skills, where max ranks are based only on the number of class levels associated with the class
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 10, 2004
      > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:48:21 +0100 (BST)
      > From: "Frugal" <frugal@...>
      >
      >
      > Thinking it through last night I might have come up with a way of handling
      > class/cross class skills and the max ranks for a skill.
      >
      > It hinges on the assumption that we can ask different
      > entities/progressions for a piece of information (including the
      > character).
      >

      [...SNIP...]

      > If we ask the character for the value of 'class_skill.bluff' at
      > character_level rank 1 we would return '1'. If we ask for the value of
      > 'class_skill.bluff' at character_level rank '2' it would return '0'.
      >
      > As we know the var.character_level and the classness of each skill we can
      > do something like this:
      >
      > <progression id="skill.bluff">
      > <variable key="skill.bluff.maxranks"/>
      > <function key="skill.bluff.maxranks"
      > calc="(var.character_level+3)/(2-class_skill.bluff)"/>
      > </progression>
      >
      > So for our example character the value of skill.bluff.maxranks is:
      >
      > (var.character_level+3)/(2-class_skill.bluff)
      > => (2+3)/(2-1)
      > => 5/1
      > => 5

      How would this work for exclusive class skills, where max ranks are based
      only on the number of class levels associated with the class that gives
      access to the exclusive skill rather than the character's total class levels.


      --
      Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberry @ jamm . com)
      Software User Experience Professional
      Designing to Requirements and walking on Water is EASY. . .
      . . . So long as both are Frozen.
      --
    • Frugal
      ... Where are you getting this rule from? I have looked in both the 3.0 and 3.5 SRD and I can find no mention of the max
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 14, 2004
        <quote who="Jenni A. Merrifield">
        > How would this work for exclusive class skills, where max ranks are
        > based
        > only on the number of class levels associated with the class that gives
        > access to the exclusive skill rather than the character's total class
        > levels.

        Where are you getting this rule from? I have looked in both the 3.0 and
        3.5 SRD and I can find no mention of the max ranks of exclusive skills
        being limited to the number of class levels associated with that skill.

        Can you cite the document and section that details this rule for me please.

        There is nothing in the current PCGen that copes with this rule.

        --
        regards,
        Frugal
        -OS Chimp
      • Brass Tilde
        ... Then it sounds like there might be an assumption built into the code somewhere based on the exclusive status of the skill. That should probably be rooted
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 14, 2004
          > > The only thing I can find is in the system\gamemode\dnd\level.lst file,
          > > which lists CSKILLMAX and CCSKILLMAX values.
          >
          > Mea Culpa. After doing a bit more rigorous digging it does indeed work
          > fine in PCGen.

          Then it sounds like there might be an assumption built into the code
          somewhere based on the exclusive status of the skill. That should probably
          be rooted out and moved to the data.
        • Jenni A. Merrifield
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 14, 2004
            <quote who="Frugal" when="Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:41:42 +0100 (BST)"
            > <quote who="Jenni A. Merrifield">
            > > How would this work for exclusive class skills, where max ranks are
            > > based
            > > only on the number of class levels associated with the class that gives
            > > access to the exclusive skill rather than the character's total class
            > > levels.
            >
            > Where are you getting this rule from? I have looked in both the 3.0 and
            > 3.5 SRD and I can find no mention of the max ranks of exclusive skills
            > being limited to the number of class levels associated with that skill.

            Heh. I'm not surprised. I remember being surprised when one of the people
            I play with regularly pointed it out to me in the first place.

            >
            > Can you cite the document and section that details this rule for me please.

            Yes, yes I can.

            It doesn't exist in 3.5 of course, since there are no "Exclusive" skills in
            3.5 but it is in 3.0 - see the "Multiclass Characters" topic in "Chapter 3:
            Classes" of the 3.0 PHB - under "Class And Level Features" > "Skills" (top
            left of page 56 in my edition), second paragraph:

            "If a skill is unavailable to a class (that is, if it's an exclusive skill
            that a multiclass character's other class doesn't have access to), then
            levels in that class don't increase the multiclass character's maximum ranks.
            For instance, the 7th-level rogue/4th-level wizard would have a maximum rank
            of 10 in Use Magic Device. Likewise, the same character could have a maximum
            of 7 ranks in Scry, an exclusive skill for wizards."

            I suppose this probably appears in a similar location in the 3.0 srd, and
            although I have the files on hand I don't have time to look it up (have to
            head off to work).

            >
            > There is nothing in the current PCGen that copes with this rule.

            Really? I guess I never noticed since I never tried to exceed exclusive
            class limits in 3.0. Sounds like a bug and/or missing feature then. ;-)

            Jenni

            --
            Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberry @ jamm . com)
            Software User Experience Professional
            Designing to Requirements and walking on Water is EASY. . .
            . . . So long as both are Frozen.
            --
          • Frugal
            ... hmmmm... the only mention of skills for multiclass characters appears to be in srdbasiccharacterclassesii.rtf under the
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 14, 2004
              <quote who="Jenni A. Merrifield">
              > It doesn't exist in 3.5 of course, since there are no "Exclusive" skills
              > in
              > 3.5 but it is in 3.0 - see the "Multiclass Characters" topic in "Chapter
              > 3:
              > Classes" of the 3.0 PHB - under "Class And Level Features" > "Skills" (top
              > left of page 56 in my edition), second paragraph:

              hmmmm... the only mention of skills for multiclass characters appears to
              be in srdbasiccharacterclassesii.rtf under the heading "Multiclass
              Characters":

              "Skills: The character retains and can access skills from all his or her
              classes. For the purposes of determining the “Max Ranks” of a skill, use
              the character’s character level rather than individual class levels. When
              adding a new class level, the costs for new ranks in skills are calculated
              using the costs for that class. Skills available to another of the
              character’s classes which are normally not allowed by the class being
              added or increased are treated as cross-class skills for the purpose of
              determining the cost of skill ranks."

              Which implies that "Skills available to another of the character’s classes
              which are normally not allowed by the class being added or increased" are
              exclusive skills of another class, and are thus treated as cross class, so
              (TL+3)/2.

              --
              regards,
              Frugal
              -OS Chimp
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