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  • Gargola
    All of you, dont want lst to by a xml? Alograg ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a Internet y
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 3, 2005
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      All of you, dont want lst to by a xml?
      Alograg





      ___________________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      La mejor conexión a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx
    • Devon Jones
      ... It s more complicated then want at this point in time. The internal parser of pcgen can t really handle an overhaul like the lst conversion right now, and
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 3, 2005
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        Gargola wrote:

        >All of you, dont want lst to by a xml?
        >Alograg
        >
        It's more complicated then want at this point in time. The internal
        parser of pcgen can't really handle an overhaul like the lst conversion
        right now, and it'll still take a long time to get it into shape to
        support a giant change of that nature. changing pcg over to xml now has
        a number of benefits over us trying to do the lst conversion:

        1) The data people get very upset when we toy with lst, because they are
        the ones who have to use it: messing with pcg only affects the coders,
        so there are less people to please
        2) the save file format can enable a whole lot of interesting things
        immediately
        3) the save file format is less fragile then lst
        4) the save file format is a good testbed for pcgen working with xml.

        make sense?

        Devon
      • andargor
        ... $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx Although I would very much to see LST - XML, Devon is right in saying that its too soon for that, considering the
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 3, 2005
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          --- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, Gargola <alograg@y...> wrote:
          > All of you, dont want lst to by a xml?
          > Alograg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ___________________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > La mejor conexión a Internet y <b >2GB</b> extra a tu correo por
          $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx

          Although I would very much to see LST -> XML, Devon is right in saying
          that its too soon for that, considering the current state of PCGen.
          The .pcg is a good place to start.


          Andargor
        • Keith Davies
          ... I agree. We didn t have *too* much trouble coming up with workable XML for LST[1]; what hosed us was the difficulty that would be involved in getting XML
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 3, 2005
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            On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 01:42:14AM +0000, andargor wrote:
            > --- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, Gargola <alograg@y...> wrote:
            > > All of you, dont want lst to by a xml?
            >
            > Although I would very much to see LST -> XML, Devon is right in saying
            > that its too soon for that, considering the current state of PCGen.
            > The .pcg is a good place to start.

            I agree.

            We didn't have *too* much trouble coming up with workable XML for LST[1];
            what hosed us was the difficulty that would be involved in getting XML
            integrated into the code.

            As Andragor says, PCG is a small enough piece, well enough isolated from
            the rest of the code, that it can be done. It should be able to give us
            an indication of some of the other problems[2] that will come up.

            [1] mostly. We never decided on a mechanism for encoding the effects of
            things.
            [2] there are *always* other problems. Even when there are no problems,
            there are other problems.


            Keith
            --
            Keith Davies "Always code as if the guy who ends up
            keith.davies@... maintaining your code is a psychopath
            keith.davies@... who knows where you live."
            http://www.kjdavies.org/ -- Damian Conway
          • Andrew Wilson
            ... I think lst to XML is an abysmal idea. XML is not a nice format for people to work in, it s fine for computer to computer exchange. It s rubbish if
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 4, 2005
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              On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 01:42:14AM -0000, andargor wrote:
              > --- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, Gargola <alograg@y...> wrote:
              >> All of you, dont want lst to by a xml?
              >
              > Although I would very much to see LST -> XML, Devon is right in saying
              > that its too soon for that, considering the current state of PCGen.
              > The .pcg is a good place to start.

              I think lst to XML is an abysmal idea. XML is not a nice format for
              people to work in, it's fine for computer to computer exchange. It's
              rubbish if you're coding it by hand which is what we'll be doing with
              list.

              I really wish this idea would just die the death it so richly deserves.

              andrew
              --
              Pisces: (Feb. 19 - March 20)
              You haven't carried out any of the reforms you promised you would,
              but you'll still be re-elected by a majority of your girlfriends.
            • Brass Tilde
              ... To a certain extent, I agree, but with a properly configured schema, and a schema aware editor and parser, the results could be much more easily validated
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 4, 2005
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                > I think lst to XML is an abysmal idea. XML is not a nice format for
                > people to work in, it's fine for computer to computer exchange. It's
                > rubbish if you're coding it by hand which is what we'll be doing with
                > list.

                To a certain extent, I agree, but with a properly configured schema, and
                a schema aware editor and parser, the results could be much more easily
                validated than they are now, i.e. they could be validated for
                parseability (if not correctness), prior to ever being loaded in the
                program.

                However, describing PCGen data in such a way as to make a schema
                actually worth anything is a monumental task all by itself. It's a
                relatively easy thing to write a schema/editor for skills such that the
                user wouldn't be allowed to enter data that couldn't be parsed. It's
                another thing entirely to write such a thing for classes and bonuses
                that will work correctly.
              • Devon Jones
                ... Consider that it s even harder now, cause pcgen supports adding new tokens via plugin. No real good way to support that via xml..... Devon
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 4, 2005
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                  Brass Tilde wrote:

                  >
                  >To a certain extent, I agree, but with a properly configured schema, and
                  >a schema aware editor and parser, the results could be much more easily
                  >validated than they are now, i.e. they could be validated for
                  >parseability (if not correctness), prior to ever being loaded in the
                  >program.
                  >
                  >However, describing PCGen data in such a way as to make a schema
                  >actually worth anything is a monumental task all by itself. It's a
                  >relatively easy thing to write a schema/editor for skills such that the
                  >user wouldn't be allowed to enter data that couldn't be parsed. It's
                  >another thing entirely to write such a thing for classes and bonuses
                  >that will work correctly.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  Consider that it's even harder now, cause pcgen supports adding new
                  tokens via plugin. No real good way to support that via xml.....

                  Devon
                • Brass Tilde
                  ... the ... Yeah, I d forgotten about that. Again however, properly constructed schemas could be merged into one master schema. A schema aware editor that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 5, 2005
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                    > >However, describing PCGen data in such a way as to make a schema
                    > >actually worth anything is a monumental task all by itself. It's a
                    > >relatively easy thing to write a schema/editor for skills such that
                    the
                    > >user wouldn't be allowed to enter data that couldn't be parsed. It's
                    > >another thing entirely to write such a thing for classes and bonuses
                    > >that will work correctly.

                    > Consider that it's even harder now, cause pcgen supports adding new
                    > tokens via plugin. No real good way to support that via xml.....

                    Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Again however, properly constructed
                    schemas could be merged into one "master" schema. A schema aware editor
                    that was sensitive to syntax changes *without* having to recompile would
                    be *sweet* though, wouldn't it? :-)
                  • Gargola
                    Analizando todos sus comentarios, esto es lo que he decidido hacer: Ayudare trabajando en un diseño completo de XML para proponerlo como estándar para
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 5, 2005
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                      Analizando todos sus comentarios, esto es lo que he decidido hacer:
                      Ayudare trabajando en un diseño completo de XML para proponerlo como
                      estándar para futuras actualizaciones del PCGen y el resto de los
                      programas generadores de caracteres.
                      Espero contar con el análisis y la ayuda de Andargor.
                      Mientras tanto trabajare en un prototipo bilingüe del XML-PCGen para
                      presentarlo como propuesta a ser asimilado y mejorado por todos en el
                      proyecto de PCGen.
                      Espero Nico me apoye en esta parte.
                      Gracias a todos.
                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Translation:
                      Analyzing all the commentaries, this is what I have decided to do:
                      It will help working in a complete design of XML to propose it like
                      standard for future updates of the PCGen and the rest of the
                      character generators programs. I hope to count on the analysis and
                      the aid of Andargor.
                      Meanwhile it will work in a bilingual prototype of the XML-PCGen to
                      present it like proposal to be assimilated and be improved by all in
                      the PCGen project.
                      I want Nico supports to me in this part.
                      Thanks to all.


                      Alograg
                    • Devon Jones
                      ... Excellent, thanks ! Devon
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 5, 2005
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                        Gargola wrote:

                        >Analizando todos sus comentarios, esto es lo que he decidido hacer:
                        >Ayudare trabajando en un diseño completo de XML para proponerlo como
                        >estándar para futuras actualizaciones del PCGen y el resto de los
                        >programas generadores de caracteres.
                        >Espero contar con el análisis y la ayuda de Andargor.
                        >Mientras tanto trabajare en un prototipo bilingüe del XML-PCGen para
                        >presentarlo como propuesta a ser asimilado y mejorado por todos en el
                        >proyecto de PCGen.
                        >Espero Nico me apoye en esta parte.
                        >Gracias a todos.
                        >---------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >Translation:
                        >Analyzing all the commentaries, this is what I have decided to do:
                        >It will help working in a complete design of XML to propose it like
                        >standard for future updates of the PCGen and the rest of the
                        >character generators programs. I hope to count on the analysis and
                        >the aid of Andargor.
                        >Meanwhile it will work in a bilingual prototype of the XML-PCGen to
                        >present it like proposal to be assimilated and be improved by all in
                        >the PCGen project.
                        >I want Nico supports to me in this part.
                        >Thanks to all.
                        >
                        >
                        >Alograg
                        >
                        >
                        Excellent, thanks !

                        Devon
                      • andargor
                        ... That s great. I m wondering, does the OpenDocument format include language support? I ve been toying with RDF, which is totally irrelevant here, but the
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 5, 2005
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                          --- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, "Gargola" <alograg@y...> wrote:
                          > Analizando todos sus comentarios, esto es lo que he decidido hacer:
                          > Ayudare trabajando en un diseño completo de XML para proponerlo como
                          > estándar para futuras actualizaciones del PCGen y el resto de los
                          > programas generadores de caracteres.
                          > Espero contar con el análisis y la ayuda de Andargor.
                          > Mientras tanto trabajare en un prototipo bilingüe del XML-PCGen para
                          > presentarlo como propuesta a ser asimilado y mejorado por todos en el
                          > proyecto de PCGen.
                          > Espero Nico me apoye en esta parte.
                          > Gracias a todos.
                          > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Translation:
                          > Analyzing all the commentaries, this is what I have decided to do:
                          > It will help working in a complete design of XML to propose it like
                          > standard for future updates of the PCGen and the rest of the
                          > character generators programs. I hope to count on the analysis and
                          > the aid of Andargor.
                          > Meanwhile it will work in a bilingual prototype of the XML-PCGen to
                          > present it like proposal to be assimilated and be improved by all in
                          > the PCGen project.
                          > I want Nico supports to me in this part.
                          > Thanks to all.
                          >
                          >
                          > Alograg

                          That's great. I'm wondering, does the OpenDocument format include
                          language support? I've been toying with RDF, which is totally
                          irrelevant here, but the standard way things are implemented are with
                          labels with the language attribute (e.g. <rdf:label
                          lang="en">Hello</rdf:label><rdf:label lang="es">Hola</rdf:label>).

                          This makes it very easy to include different languages, and even XSLT
                          them in later.

                          Andargor
                        • Devon Jones
                          ... Yeah, a *huge* amount of the work went into internationalization. OpenDocument is on the fast track to become an ISO standard, so it requires support for
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 6, 2005
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                            andargor wrote:

                            >--- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, "Gargola" <alograg@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >>Analizando todos sus comentarios, esto es lo que he decidido hacer:
                            >>Ayudare trabajando en un diseño completo de XML para proponerlo como
                            >>estándar para futuras actualizaciones del PCGen y el resto de los
                            >>programas generadores de caracteres.
                            >>Espero contar con el análisis y la ayuda de Andargor.
                            >>Mientras tanto trabajare en un prototipo bilingüe del XML-PCGen para
                            >>presentarlo como propuesta a ser asimilado y mejorado por todos en el
                            >>proyecto de PCGen.
                            >>Espero Nico me apoye en esta parte.
                            >>Gracias a todos.
                            >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >>Translation:
                            >>Analyzing all the commentaries, this is what I have decided to do:
                            >>It will help working in a complete design of XML to propose it like
                            >>standard for future updates of the PCGen and the rest of the
                            >>character generators programs. I hope to count on the analysis and
                            >>the aid of Andargor.
                            >>Meanwhile it will work in a bilingual prototype of the XML-PCGen to
                            >>present it like proposal to be assimilated and be improved by all in
                            >>the PCGen project.
                            >>I want Nico supports to me in this part.
                            >>Thanks to all.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>Alograg
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >That's great. I'm wondering, does the OpenDocument format include
                            >language support? I've been toying with RDF, which is totally
                            >irrelevant here, but the standard way things are implemented are with
                            >labels with the language attribute (e.g. <rdf:label
                            >lang="en">Hello</rdf:label><rdf:label lang="es">Hola</rdf:label>).
                            >
                            >This makes it very easy to include different languages, and even XSLT
                            >them in later.
                            >
                            >Andargor
                            >
                            >
                            Yeah, a *huge* amount of the work went into internationalization.
                            OpenDocument is on the fast track to become an ISO standard, so it
                            requires support for not only other languages, but even support for
                            whacky other symbols needed by some relatively obscure entities for
                            supporting some pretty obscure glyphs.

                            Devon
                          • andargor
                            ... I almost expected you to use the word arcane . ;) Andargor
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 6, 2005
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                              --- In pcgen-xml@yahoogroups.com, Devon Jones <soulcatcher@e...> wrote:

                              > Yeah, a *huge* amount of the work went into internationalization.
                              > OpenDocument is on the fast track to become an ISO standard, so it
                              > requires support for not only other languages, but even support for
                              > whacky other symbols needed by some relatively obscure entities for
                              > supporting some pretty obscure glyphs.
                              >
                              > Devon

                              I almost expected you to use the word "arcane". ;)

                              Andargor
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