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RE: [patriotzip] Why Holdout?????

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  • George
    ***** You must remember that the word enough is not in the vocabulary of most humans when it comes to money. It s not just the pro athletes. They are merely
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2006
      ***** You must remember that the word "enough" is not in the vocabulary of most humans when it comes to money. It's not just the pro athletes. They are merely the most visible to the general public. Popular Actors, singers, and rappers (not to be confused with "singers"!), plus successful defense lawyers, and corporate executives are all among the many in this country who's income is in the multi-millions of dollars. Yet there are few, if any, of them who ever say "enough", and don't demand more at every opportunity. And, among us, the "great middle class", there is still, based upon my many conversations on the subject, a significant majority who support that philosophy.
       
      ***** "Keep grabbing for all you can get." That's the motto of most people. The theory is that, if you don't make the guy paying you pay you more, you just leave more for him to take. That isn't fair, of course, because you do all the work that makes that money.
       
      ***** I'm not saying that it's wrong. The fact is that the guy at the top of the financial chain in your business, whatever it is, WILL continue to rake in all he can. So it's all just a battle over who gets the biggest piece of any particular pie. Whether or not it's "enough" to buy everything that any human being could possibly need or use is not a factor. 
       
      ***** Now, as the tone of this diatribe clearly shows, I don't personally agree with that philosophy. But, as I said above, I'm not saying that it's wrong. I just don't feel that way. I recognize, however, that it is never going to change. It truly is a strong element within human nature. We all feel it, to some degree or another. For that reason, I don't think that I, or anyone else, can condemn someone else for drawing their financial line and ambition somewhere higher than I draw mine. I can and do dislike it when I see what I consider to be outrageous incomes declared as "not enough" by any of the above named people. But I can't say they're greedy for wanting what they want, if I say I'm not for wanting more than I have now. It's just the way it is.
       

      Sawadee Khrap
      George

       


      From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rogue35lk
      Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:17 PM
      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [patriotzip] Why Holdout?????

      I don't really understand why Deion is holding out, I understand that
      he would like more money immediately but he only has 1 year left on
      his contract, if he doesn't like the $ the Pats are offering, all he
      has to do is play out the season and find some other sucker to pony up
      the BIG cash. All he is accomplishing now is losing money and losing
      fan respect, I'm guessing he can still afford to feed his kids on the
      Million plus he is scheduled to earn this year. I have also heard
      that his agent wants the Pats to agree not to "Franchise" him next
      year, now I don't have the exact language in front of me but doesn't
      that guarantee him to be abount the top 10% in pay at his postiion??
      Remind me again, why is that a bad thing??????? ??

      I always liked Deion's play and when I found out he had twins (I have
      21 month old twin girls) he became one of my favorite (current)
      players. I'm not sure if he can fully recover from this, at least in
      my mind.

    • Orgone
      Hi George, I respect your opinion. However, the Patriots organization has made it clear that they will not pay big salaries or even salaries in line with the
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2006
        Hi George,

        I respect your opinion.

        However, the Patriots organization has made it clear that they will not pay big salaries or even salaries in line with the rest of the league. I think
        rogue35lk was trying to say that rather than try to change club policy to suit himself Branch should play out his contract and move on to where he'll be better appreciated the way he wants to be appreciated. The way things sit now Branch is in a no-win situation.

        Harry


        At 10:26 AM 8/2/2006 +0700, you wrote:
        ***** You must remember that the word "enough" is not in the vocabulary of most humans when it comes to money. It's not just the pro athletes. They are merely the most visible to the general public. Popular Actors, singers, and rappers (not to be confused with "singers"!), plus successful defense lawyers, and corporate executives are all among the many in this country who's income is in the multi-millions of dollars. Yet there are few, if any, of them who ever say "enough", and don't demand more at every opportunity. And, among us, the "great middle class", there is still, based upon my many conversations on the subject, a significant majority who support that philosophy.

         
        ***** "Keep grabbing for all you can get." That's the motto of most people. The theory is that, if you don't make the guy paying you pay you more, you just leave more for him to take. That isn't fair, of course, because you do all the work that makes that money.
         
        ***** I'm not saying that it's wrong. The fact is that the guy at the top of the financial chain in your business, whatever it is, WILL continue to rake in all he can. So it's all just a battle over who gets the biggest piece of any particular pie. Whether or not it's "enough" to buy everything that any human being could possibly need or use is not a factor. 
         
        ***** Now, as the tone of this diatribe clearly shows, I don't personally agree with that philosophy. But, as I said above, I'm not saying that it's wrong. I just don't feel that way. I recognize, however, that it is never going to change. It truly is a strong element within human nature. We all feel it, to some degree or another. For that reason, I don't think that I, or anyone else, can condemn someone else for drawing their financial line and ambition somewhere higher than I draw mine. I can and do dislike it when I see what I consider to be outrageous incomes declared as "not enough" by any of the above named people. But I can't say they're greedy for wanting what they want, if I say I'm not for wanting more than I have now. It's just the way it is.
         

        Sawadee Khrap
        George
         


        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rogue35lk
        Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:17 PM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [patriotzip] Why Holdout?????

        I don't really understand why Deion is holding out, I understand that
        he would like more money immediately but he only has 1 year left on
        his contract, if he doesn't like the $ the Pats are offering, all he
        has to do is play out the season and find some other sucker to pony up
        the BIG cash. All he is accomplishing now is losing money and losing
        fan respect, I'm guessing he can still afford to feed his kids on the
        Million plus he is scheduled to earn this year. I have also heard
        that his agent wants the Pats to agree not to "Franchise" him next
        year, now I don't have the exact language in front of me but doesn't
        that guarantee him to be abount the top 10% in pay at his postiion??
        Remind me again, why is that a bad thing?????????

        I always liked Deion's play and when I found out he had twins (I have
        21 month old twin girls) he became one of my favorite (current)
        players. I'm not sure if he can fully recover from this, at least in
        my mind.



        ____________________________________________

        "The gospel of the monarchical patriotism is: 'The King can do no wrong.' We have adopted it with all its servility, with an unimportant change in the wording: 'Our country, right or wrong!' We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had - the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."--Mark Twain
      • George
        No disagreement at all, Harry. I am always (as some on another Pats site can tell you) on the side of sound Salary Cap management by our team. I think their
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 2, 2006
          No disagreement at all, Harry. I am always (as some on another Pats site can tell you) on the side of sound Salary Cap management by our team. I think their success over the past 5 years proves, beyond doubt, that they have the right philosophy for building and maintaining a Super Bowl contender. No team has done better during the Salary Cap era.
           
          In this specific case, I am 100% on the side of Patriots management. The offer made to Branch, as I opined a few days ago, is perfectly in line with his relative value to this team. He is not a "top 5" receiver. He is not rated as such by any source you can find. So he doesn't deserve to be paid like one.
           
          All I was saying in response to Rogue's post was that we can't really get upset with Branch any more that we can with almost any player in the league. He's asking for more than he's worth. That's consistent with at least 90% of the players in the league. If he's happy with the Super Bowl rings he has, let him move on to where there's more money, and less likelihood of earning another ring.
           
          Meanwhile, the Patriots will, as they should, stick to the value charts they work with, and, if Branch's choice is go for only the biggest paycheck he can get, the team can and will go out and find another very good receiver who is still looking for that ring. Branch is not even close to being irreplaceable on this team.

          Sawadee Khrap
          George

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Orgone
          Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 1:15 PM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Why Holdout?????

          Hi George,

          I respect your opinion.

          However, the Patriots organization has made it clear that they will not pay big salaries or even salaries in line with the rest of the league. I think
          rogue35lk was trying to say that rather than try to change club policy to suit himself Branch should play out his contract and move on to where he'll be better appreciated the way he wants to be appreciated. The way things sit now Branch is in a no-win situation.

          Harry


          At 10:26 AM 8/2/2006 +0700, you wrote:

          ***** You must remember that the word "enough" is not in the vocabulary of most humans when it comes to money. It's not just the pro athletes. They are merely the most visible to the general public. Popular Actors, singers, and rappers (not to be confused with "singers"!), plus successful defense lawyers, and corporate executives are all among the many in this country who's income is in the multi-millions of dollars. Yet there are few, if any, of them who ever say "enough", and don't demand more at every opportunity. And, among us, the "great middle class", there is still, based upon my many conversations on the subject, a significant majority who support that philosophy.

           
          ***** "Keep grabbing for all you can get." That's the motto of most people. The theory is that, if you don't make the guy paying you pay you more, you just leave more for him to take. That isn't fair, of course, because you do all the work that makes that money.
           
          ***** I'm not saying that it's wrong. The fact is that the guy at the top of the financial chain in your business, whatever it is, WILL continue to rake in all he can. So it's all just a battle over who gets the biggest piece of any particular pie. Whether or not it's "enough" to buy everything that any human being could possibly need or use is not a factor. 
           
          ***** Now, as the tone of this diatribe clearly shows, I don't personally agree with that philosophy. But, as I said above, I'm not saying that it's wrong. I just don't feel that way. I recognize, however, that it is never going to change. It truly is a strong element within human nature. We all feel it, to some degree or another. For that reason, I don't think that I, or anyone else, can condemn someone else for drawing their financial line and ambition somewhere higher than I draw mine. I can and do dislike it when I see what I consider to be outrageous incomes declared as "not enough" by any of the above named people. But I can't say they're greedy for wanting what they want, if I say I'm not for wanting more than I have now. It's just the way it is.
           

          Sawadee Khrap
          George
           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of rogue35lk
          Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 9:17 PM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: [patriotzip] Why Holdout?????

          I don't really understand why Deion is holding out, I understand that
          he would like more money immediately but he only has 1 year left on
          his contract, if he doesn't like the $ the Pats are offering, all he
          has to do is play out the season and find some other sucker to pony up
          the BIG cash. All he is accomplishing now is losing money and losing
          fan respect, I'm guessing he can still afford to feed his kids on the
          Million plus he is scheduled to earn this year. I have also heard
          that his agent wants the Pats to agree not to "Franchise" him next
          year, now I don't have the exact language in front of me but doesn't
          that guarantee him to be abount the top 10% in pay at his postiion??
          Remind me again, why is that a bad thing??????? ??

          I always liked Deion's play and when I found out he had twins (I have
          21 month old twin girls) he became one of my favorite (current)
          players. I'm not sure if he can fully recover from this, at least in
          my mind.



          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _____

          "The gospel of the monarchical patriotism is: 'The King can do no wrong.' We have adopted it with all its servility, with an unimportant change in the wording: 'Our country, right or wrong!' We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had - the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it, all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism."--Mark Twain

        • rogue35lk
          That s my point exactly. He has a contract, why not honor it and then hit the open market and find out exactly what he is worth? If someone values him more
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 2, 2006
            That's my point exactly. He has a contract, why not honor it and then
            hit the open market and find out exactly what he is worth? If someone
            values him more than the Pats, fine.

            I wounder how Damien Woody feels about all that extra money he got
            from Detroit? Was it really worth it??
          • RandyZ. Pierce
            I share your sentiments that he shoud be in camp and working - primarily because it will help him with the season which will help him in the free agent market
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 2, 2006
              I share your sentiments that he shoud be in camp and working - primarily because it will help him with the season which will help him in the free agent market next year.
               
              Now presuming he really wants to stay with the Pats, this gives him the best chance since it pressures both sides to finish the deal when there are no other bidders.  The trouble with your last season isn't the base salary or the potential for free agency next year, it's the risk of injury leaving you without any compensation for the future. 
               
              We don't actually know what real dollars and terms have been offerred to Deion or demanded from Deion.  We've heard that the Pats made a seemingly very respectable offer and the fact Branch turned that down is a more deleterious statement about the future for these sides.  Deion will play this season even if there is no deal because he must get a set number of games under his belt in order to get to that free agency payoff.  The sad part is the Pats had to play hard ball and Branch felt he had to pay hard-ball.  No matter how this works out the two sides will ahve less family and more business feel.  Each of those situatins is  a step away from the team concept that did us so much good.
               
              One salient point from the Pats perspective is that they do not want to ever buckle and over-pay - nor do they want to set a scenario formula for other players as they hit their final year.
               
              One argument I've heard is where do the Pats intend to spend their extra cap space this year.  I could see them  adjusting this year5's contracts to spend some of next year's money from this year's pool.  Vrabel is a tough contract next  year - Deion is tough this or next year. 
               
              I truly believe that after Friday's Pre-season tilt with the Falcons, Deion will resolve this situation one way or another.  It would be more likely if Caldwell and Jackson have solid performances to make him see how good it is to have Tom Brady throwing you the ball.
               
              Go pats!
              Zip
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: rogue35lk
              Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:23 AM
              Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Why Holdout?????

              That's my point exactly. He has a contract, why not honor it and then
              hit the open market and find out exactly what he is worth? If someone
              values him more than the Pats, fine.

              I wounder how Damien Woody feels about all that extra money he got
              from Detroit? Was it really worth it??

            • Don Diamant
              After seeing yesterdays in stadium practice I m not in the least concerned with the WR situation. Perhaps I m reading too much into but I doubt it. Make no
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 2, 2006

                After seeing yesterdays in stadium practice I’m not in the least concerned with the WR situation.  Perhaps I’m reading too much into but I doubt it.  Make no mistake, we have talent at that position, WR.  I expect to see some of the younger guys be an impact this year such as Reche Caldwell and Chad Jackson.  I also believe that Bam Childress will be a capable 4th or 5th WR.  To add to that we still have Troy Brown and while he may have lost a step he is still a playmaker and clearly will contribute significantly for another season at least.

                 

                Don

                 


                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of rogue35lk
                Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:23 AM
                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Why Holdout?????

                 

                That's my point exactly. He has a contract, why not honor it and then
                hit the open market and find out exactly what he is worth? If someone
                values him more than the Pats, fine.

                I wounder how Damien Woody feels about all that extra money he got
                from Detroit ? Was it really worth it??

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