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Re: Adjustments

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  • Christopher Robert Woods
    On WEEI Dale Arnold made an interesting point though I m not sure if it just ends up being semantics. Anyways, the point he brought up is that fans rarely seem
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
      On WEEI Dale Arnold made an interesting point though I'm not sure if it
      just ends up being semantics.

      Anyways, the point he brought up is that fans rarely seem to accept the
      idea that another team beat their team. They always point to how their
      own team failed.

      If the Patriots played a good game yesterday they very likely still would
      have been beaten. The Chargers came out sharp and determined. I don't
      think BB and the coaches were sitting at halftime staring at their
      clipboards dumbfounded. They saw the problems just as we saw them but no
      amount of coaching adjustments is going to stop LT from making a fantastic
      move on a run that gains a key first down or Antonio Gates from using his
      size to make plays that Guss Scott or Duane Starks just can't stop.

      I'm not saying it was an unwinnable game, but with the way the Chargers
      played in the second half, and I'm talking about the plays the players
      themselves made in individual match-ups on the line and in the running and
      passing game, it would have taken more than just some half-time changes to
      overcome. It would take the Patriots players winning the individual
      battles starting with the unit most at fault, the DL. Drew Brees had a
      ton of time and watching him play I was getting the eerie feeling that
      this is what fans of other teams must feel when Brady buys time in the
      pocket and makes an 18 yard pass on 3rd and 18.

      On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, George wrote:

      >
      >
      > ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is our previously legendary ability to make in-game adjustments - particularly at halftime.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** That was one of the greatest strengths of the BB/Wies/Crennel teams. When a weakness, or bad trend appeared, they always seemed to be able to make changes that turned the flow back in our favor. I don't see it happening this season.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** We were clearly out coached, as well as out played, during the second half, as BB said in his press conference.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** It isn't just the injuries that have the Patriots performing like a mediocre team, instead of like elite Champions. The major changes off the field, as well as those on the field, have clearly lowered our production.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** The challenge ahead is to continue to develop what we have, and grow into a championship caliber team for that post-Thanksgiving run that BB points to as the critical time of the season. It's possible that doing so within a single season is too much to expect. But I'm sure that BB expects it, and that he and the team will do their very best to make it happen.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** It's up to all of us to support that effort. As I've said before, I believe we can win the Eastern Division. That's the goal I have in mind now. If that does fail, and we miss the Playoffs this year, it will simply validate the fact that there is a limit to the number of changes a team can overcome in one season.
      >
      >
      >
      > ***** The Patriots remain one of the greatest teams in NFL history, at this point. Whatever happens this season, they will still be so, as long as they don't stray from the course of returning to the top very soon.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _______________________________________________
      > patriots mailing list
      > patriots@...
      > http://patriots.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
      >

      =================
      Christopher Robert Woods
      chris@...
    • George
      ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is our previously legendary
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005

        ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is our previously legendary ability to make in-game adjustments - particularly at halftime.

         

        ***** That was one of the greatest strengths of the BB/Wies/Crennel teams. When a weakness, or bad trend appeared, they always seemed to be able to make changes that turned the flow back in our favor. I don't see it happening this season.

         

        ***** We were clearly out coached, as well as out played, during the second half, as BB said in his press conference.

         

        ***** It isn't just the injuries that have the Patriots performing like a mediocre team, instead of like elite Champions. The major changes off the field, as well as those on the field, have clearly lowered our production.

         

        ***** The challenge ahead is to continue to develop what we have, and grow into a championship caliber team for that post-Thanksgiving run that BB points to as the critical time of the season. It's possible that doing so within a single season is too much to expect. But I'm sure that BB expects it, and that he and the team will do their very best to make it happen.

         

        ***** It's up to all of us to support that effort. As I've said before, I believe we can win the Eastern Division. That's the goal I have in mind now. If that does fail, and we miss the Playoffs this year, it will simply validate the fact that there is a limit to the number of changes a team can overcome in one season.

         

        ***** The Patriots remain one of the greatest teams in NFL history, at this point. Whatever happens this season, they will still be so, as long as they don't stray from the course of returning to the top very soon.   

         

         

      • Frank Northcutt
        Excellent points. I think the coaching dynamic is different. BB pretty much left the D to Romeo, but he may be spending more time working with Mangini, at this
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
          Excellent points. I think the coaching dynamic is different. BB
          pretty much left the D to Romeo, but he may be spending more time
          working with Mangini, at this point in the year. Also, no one is
          quite sure how the offensive coaching is executed. Too many cooks?
          Perhaps.

          It's not the injuries, per se, that cause the problem. It's loss of
          continuity, and the leadership vacuum that is created. Johnson and
          Bruschi replaced by two good players, who are still learning the
          system, and don't have the cache yet to step up and be the leader.
          Harrison was a big blow in leadership, and on-field coaching. Wilson
          should step up and take the reigns. He has the experience in the
          system, and the respect of his team mates. Guys like Guss Scott, Chad
          Scott, and Duane Starks haven't been here long enough, and aren't
          working well enough as a unit yet. Someone has to pull them together.

          Hopefully, after the bye, the schedule will be a little less brutal,
          some of our regulars will return, and the newer guys will begin to
          work better as a team.

          fdb

          --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, George <patswingr@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most
          apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is
          our previously legendary ability to make in-game adjustments -
          particularly at halftime.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** That was one of the greatest strengths of the BB/Wies/Crennel
          teams. When a weakness, or bad trend appeared, they always seemed to
          be able to make changes that turned the flow back in our favor. I
          don't see it happening this season.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** We were clearly out coached, as well as out played, during
          the second half, as BB said in his press conference.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** It isn't just the injuries that have the Patriots performing
          like a mediocre team, instead of like elite Champions. The major
          changes off the field, as well as those on the field, have clearly
          lowered our production.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** The challenge ahead is to continue to develop what we have,
          and grow into a championship caliber team for that post-Thanksgiving
          run that BB points to as the critical time of the season. It's
          possible that doing so within a single season is too much to expect.
          But I'm sure that BB expects it, and that he and the team will do
          their very best to make it happen.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** It's up to all of us to support that effort. As I've said
          before, I believe we can win the Eastern Division. That's the goal I
          have in mind now. If that does fail, and we miss the Playoffs this
          year, it will simply validate the fact that there is a limit to the
          number of changes a team can overcome in one season.
          >
          >
          >
          > ***** The Patriots remain one of the greatest teams in NFL history,
          at this point. Whatever happens this season, they will still be so,
          as long as they don't stray from the course of returning to the top
          very soon.
        • George
          ***** Valid points, Chris. Everything you said here is true. The Chargers did, indeed, play nearly perfect football in that second half. But I think their
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
            ***** Valid points, Chris. Everything you said here is true. The Chargers did, indeed, play nearly perfect football in that second half. But I think their success may have been aided by at least a small drop off in the confidence level that our players have in the new leadership, versus Weis and Crennel. That drop off could contribute to a slight lessening of intensity, and a slight drop off is all it takes to be ovewhelmed by a good opponent in the NFL. And we all know that we've lost the on-field leaders who might rekindle that intensity, making recovery even more difficult when things start to go south (Who did you see getting emotional during the second half when we were being pushed all over the field?)  
             
            ***** I still feel that our coaching staff has been less effective in making in-game adjustments than had been the case with Weis and Crennel here. That's not to denegrate the current staff in any way. It's not fair to expect them to make a seamless transition to new reponsibilities, and produce results as impressive as those of Weis and Crennel.
             
            ***** I think BB has proven to us that he makes outstanding selections in coaches to work for him. I remain confident that Mangini, McDaniel, and the rest of them will develop. My point is that they do need to develop. They are not running things as effectively as Weis and Crennel, and it will take some time for them to approach that level of performance.
             
            ***** I'm prepared to accept that it may take more than the remainder of this season. I certainly hope not. But I don't think it's unreasonable to recognize that as a possibility, and to identify and accept it as a reason for not winning a third consecutive championship, should we fail to do so.
             
            George
             
            Christopher Robert Woods <chris@...> wrote:

            On WEEI Dale Arnold made an interesting point though I'm not sure if it
            just ends up being semantics.

            Anyways, the point he brought up is that fans rarely seem to accept the
            idea that another team beat their team. They always point to how their
            own team failed.

            If the Patriots played a good game yesterday they very likely still would
            have been beaten. The Chargers came out sharp and determined. I don't
            think BB and the coaches were sitting at halftime staring at their
            clipboards dumbfounded. They saw the problems just as we saw them but no
            amount of coaching adjustments is going to stop LT from making a fantastic
            move on a run that gains a key first down or Antonio Gates from using his
            size to make plays that Guss Scott or Duane Starks just can't stop.

            I'm not saying it was an unwinnable game, but with the way the Chargers
            played in the second half, and I'm talking about the plays the players
            themselves made in individual match-ups on the line and in the running and
            passing game, it would have taken more than just some half-time changes to
            overcome. It would take the Patriots players winning the individual
            battles starting with the unit most at fault, the DL. Drew Brees had a
            ton of time and watching him play I was getting the eerie feeling that
            this is what fans of other teams must feel when Brady buys time in the
            pocket and makes an 18 yard pass on 3rd and 18.

            On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, George wrote:

            >
            >
            > ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is our previously legendary ability to make in-game adjustments - particularly at halftime.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** That was one of the greatest strengths of the BB/Wies/Crennel teams. When a weakness, or bad trend appeared, they always seemed to be able to make changes that turned the flow back in our favor. I don't see it happening this season.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** We were clearly out coached, as well as out played, during the second half, as BB said in his press conference.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** It isn't just the injuries that have the Patriots performing like a mediocre team, instead of like elite Champions. The major changes off the field, as well as those on the field, have clearly lowered our production.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** The challenge ahead is to continue to develop what we have, and grow into a championship caliber team for that post-Thanksgiving run that BB points to as the critical time of the season. It's possible that doing so within a single season is too much to expect. But I'm sure that BB expects it, and that he and the team will do their very best to make it happen.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** It's up to all of us to support that effort. As I've said before, I believe we can win the Eastern Division. That's the goal I have in mind now. If that does fail, and we miss the Playoffs this year, it will simply validate the fact that there is a limit to the number of changes a team can overcome in one season.
            >
            >
            >
            > ***** The Patriots remain one of the greatest teams in NFL history, at this point. Whatever happens this season, they will still be so, as long as they don't stray from the course of returning to the top very soon.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _______________________________________________
            > patriots mailing list
            > patriots@...
            > http://patriots.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
            >

            =================
            Christopher Robert Woods
            chris@...


          • David Brunat
            SD made some great halftime adjustments. We on the other hand did not. They were able to get great pressure on Brady while Drew had all day to pick apart our
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 3, 2005
              SD made some great halftime adjustments.  We on the other hand did not.  They were able to get great pressure on Brady while Drew had all day to pick apart our depleted secondary.  To make matters worse, all that happened while LT ran through our defense like wet tissue paper.  We were out coached and out played.  This was a classic sleeper for us and we nodded out.  Having not looked at the tape, we may have overcompensated to cover for Kazur which exposed the other side.  SD seemed to attack away from where we expected them to.  They played great and deserved the win.
               
              The BrewGnat

              Christopher Robert Woods <chris@...> wrote:

              On WEEI Dale Arnold made an interesting point though I'm not sure if it
              just ends up being semantics.

              Anyways, the point he brought up is that fans rarely seem to accept the
              idea that another team beat their team. They always point to how their
              own team failed.

              If the Patriots played a good game yesterday they very likely still would
              have been beaten. The Chargers came out sharp and determined. I don't
              think BB and the coaches were sitting at halftime staring at their
              clipboards dumbfounded. They saw the problems just as we saw them but no
              amount of coaching adjustments is going to stop LT from making a fantastic
              move on a run that gains a key first down or Antonio Gates from using his
              size to make plays that Guss Scott or Duane Starks just can't stop.

              I'm not saying it was an unwinnable game, but with the way the Chargers
              played in the second half, and I'm talking about the plays the players
              themselves made in individual match-ups on the line and in the running and
              passing game, it would have taken more than just some half-time changes to
              overcome. It would take the Patriots players winning the individual
              battles starting with the unit most at fault, the DL. Drew Brees had a
              ton of time and watching him play I was getting the eerie feeling that
              this is what fans of other teams must feel when Brady buys time in the
              pocket and makes an 18 yard pass on 3rd and 18.

              On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, George wrote:

              >
              >
              > ***** Just wondering if anybody else feels, as I do, that the most apparent drop off coaching performance without Romeo and Charlie is our previously legendary ability to make in-game adjustments - particularly at halftime.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** That was one of the greatest strengths of the BB/Wies/Crennel teams. When a weakness, or bad trend appeared, they always seemed to be able to make changes that turned the flow back in our favor. I don't see it happening this season.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** We were clearly out coached, as well as out played, during the second half, as BB said in his press conference.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** It isn't just the injuries that have the Patriots performing like a mediocre team, instead of like elite Champions. The major changes off the field, as well as those on the field, have clearly lowered our production.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** The challenge ahead is to continue to develop what we have, and grow into a championship caliber team for that post-Thanksgiving run that BB points to as the critical time of the season. It's possible that doing so within a single season is too much to expect. But I'm sure that BB expects it, and that he and the team will do their very best to make it happen.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** It's up to all of us to support that effort. As I've said before, I believe we can win the Eastern Division. That's the goal I have in mind now. If that does fail, and we miss the Playoffs this year, it will simply validate the fact that there is a limit to the number of changes a team can overcome in one season.
              >
              >
              >
              > ***** The Patriots remain one of the greatest teams in NFL history, at this point. Whatever happens this season, they will still be so, as long as they don't stray from the course of returning to the top very soon.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _______________________________________________
              > patriots mailing list
              > patriots@...
              > http://patriots.bosco.net/mailman/listinfo/patriots
              >

              =================
              Christopher Robert Woods
              chris@...


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            • George
              ***** I just went through the play-by-play text on ESPN to look at Addai s performance in the second half. Do you realize that he had a total of 32 yards
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
                ***** I just went through the play-by-play text on ESPN to look at Addai's
                performance in the second half. Do you realize that he had a total of 32
                yards rushing, and one reception for 7 yards in that 2nd half? I don't know
                what the hell the Pats coaches changed, but they certainly changed
                something! That's an amazing turnaround, which, all things considered, was
                probably the single biggest reason why we were able to come back and win
                that game.

                George
                "I don't have a whole lot of what-ifs. We won three Super Bowls," (Tom
                Brady)
              • Susan Moore
                That ability to turn things around in an instant (or what seems like it) is one of the reasons for the success of this team...BB s quick on his feet thinking
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
                  That ability to turn things around in an instant (or what seems like it) is one of the reasons for the success of this team...BB's quick on his feet thinking to hatch another plan is just amazing, one of the best I've ever seen.
                  Thank goodness, huh??
                  Whew, I'm still stunned today and couldn't wait to get the newspaper with the headlines.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: George
                  Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 3:47 AM
                  Subject: [patriotzip] Adjustments

                  ***** I just went through the play-by-play text on ESPN to look at Addai's
                  performance in the second half. Do you realize that he had a total of 32
                  yards rushing, and one reception for 7 yards in that 2nd half? I don't know
                  what the hell the Pats coaches changed, but they certainly changed
                  something! That's an amazing turnaround, which, all things considered, was
                  probably the single biggest reason why we were able to come back and win
                  that game.

                  George
                  "I don't have a whole lot of what-ifs. We won three Super Bowls," (Tom
                  Brady)

                • Frank
                  Same thing on defense. Brady admitted that the Colts D threw some wrinkles into their scheme that they didn t expect. Our protection wasn t working early on.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 5, 2007
                    Same thing on defense. Brady admitted that the Colts D threw some
                    wrinkles into their scheme that they didn't expect. Our protection
                    wasn't working early on. In the second half he had considerably more
                    time to work, and receivers were getting open. I don't think it was
                    the Colts suddenly going away from an approach that was working,
                    rather it was our adjustments on the fly.

                    fdb

                    --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > ***** I just went through the play-by-play text on ESPN to look at
                    Addai's
                    > performance in the second half. Do you realize that he had a total
                    of 32
                    > yards rushing, and one reception for 7 yards in that 2nd half? I
                    don't know
                    > what the hell the Pats coaches changed, but they certainly changed
                    > something! That's an amazing turnaround, which, all things
                    considered, was
                    > probably the single biggest reason why we were able to come back
                    and win
                    > that game.
                    >
                    > George
                    > "I don't have a whole lot of what-ifs. We won three Super Bowls,"
                    (Tom
                    > Brady)
                    >
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