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Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

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  • PatsWickedPissah@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/2/04 12:11:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Exactly. ALL CBs get burned. It s a question of how often and how they react afterwards.
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 2, 2004
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      In a message dated 11/2/04 12:11:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, alaric02@... writes:

      Gay did improve after the one toasting and had a nice deflection in the end-zone.  He may have been in shock at the role he was thrust within.  Hopefully we are prepared to step up.



      Exactly.  ALL CBs get burned.  It's a question of how often and how they react afterwards.  Were he to go into a shell and play way off the WR it would be disastrous.  Jury's still way out on this kid.  Let's see him play part of a season before deciding.

      -p
    • George R
      ***** You re correct in saying the jury is still out on him, Phil. But I ll say that I m leaning very strongly his way, based upon what I ve seen thus far. He
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 2, 2004
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        ***** You're correct in saying the jury is still out on him, Phil. But I'll say that I'm leaning very strongly his way, based upon what I've seen thus far. He has shown me good tackling, good recovery speed, and overall good coverage skills, with several tough knock downs. Add that the mental toughness that you noted, and he was a long way from the worst player out there Sunday. I like this kid, and my guess is that he's going to continue to improve, and become a key member of our secondary over the next couple of seasons.
         
        George

        PatsWickedPissah@... wrote:
        In a message dated 11/2/04 12:11:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, alaric02@... writes:

        Gay did improve after the one toasting and had a nice deflection in the end-zone.  He may have been in shock at the role he was thrust within.  Hopefully we are prepared to step up.



        Exactly.  ALL CBs get burned.  It's a question of how often and how they react afterwards.  Were he to go into a shell and play way off the WR it would be disastrous.  Jury's still way out on this kid.  Let's see him play part of a season before deciding.

        -p


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      • Randy Z Pierce
        The Reed blunder was significant on many fronts and in my two turning points of the game, that was one of the two significant points. Reed had better get
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
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          The Reed blunder was significant on many fronts and in my two turning points of the game, that was one of the two significant points.  Reed had better get himself together because I'd say it is likely he will be our starting free safety this week with Eugene Wilson moving to corner.  No word on the Randall Gaye injury front but we are a depleted secondary about to challenge a pass hapy Rams team.  Martz certainly owes Belichick as well so not our best time for such things.
          '
           
          WHile no word on Grant Williams has been rendered, there is some unique trivia on players for the Rams/Pats going both ways.  A former Pats player from my very own home town of Nashua NH was paid by BOTH the Pats and the Rams for the same game - and took a Superbowl ring home at the same time.  Special Teamer Kole Ayi had spent enough time with both teams to receive a playoff paycheck from each and as an active (injury reserve) player, was gifted a ring.  Strange factoids!
           
          Will there be an Earthwind sighting?
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ed Bryant
          Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:27 PM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

          Let's look at one critical drive.  Je'rod Cherry was on his way to the ball from the left, and the ball was going to stop short of the goal line with or without human intervention; it simply needed to be downed, and Je'rod was right there in 1998 as a Saint, so he certainly knew to down the ball.  However, the rookie Dexter Reid got a little excited, and with a full head of steam, he slid.  The result was an unnecessary touchback.
          The one advantage the visitors had in that first quarter was the wind at their backs.  Pittsburgh had already punted twice, and had they taken over at their own 2, their play calling would have skewed conservative, which means they would likely have given the ball to Duce Staley twice with the Patriots knowing they would do so.  One stop there, and Gardocki punts into the wind. 
          Instead, Pittsburgh starts at the 20.  They still run Staley twice, for 3 and then 1 yard, but on third down, having scouted the same stupid coaches who took the blame for Seattle's open receivers, they threw in the flat to Verron Hayes, for 14 yards and a first down, a play they would not have dared if they were still inside their own 10. 
          The next two plays featured a penalty on Burress and a completion to Hines Ward on which Ty Law was seriously injured. 
          Pittsburgh ran once following the Law injury, and then, on 2nd and 6, NE sent 7 men.   Seven.  I don't understand.  Why do you need to risk what happened by sending seven guys at a rookie?  When the seven guys didn't get to  Roethlisberger, it seems very unfair to blame Gay for the touchdown.  There was a pump-fake, and there wasn't the slightest hope of help from a safety. 
          There followed the first of three NE drives lasting one play each.  I can't remember the last time we had three one play drives in a game, and I need help to recall when was the last time we had three one play drives, none of them touchdowns, all of them turn-overs.
          Pittsburgh had the personnel advantage, despite the loss of their nose tackle.  NE knows how to beat Pittsburgh with five wideouts and no running back, even when one of the wide-outs is Donald Hayes, but to do this without Branch and with a substandard Troy Brown is a different kettle, and the o line situation sure didn't help.  Does anyone know if it's been arranged for Grant Williams to play right tackle for both teams Sunday?

          Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:
          The field was terrible and I wonder if BB and crew will add Field review and preparation to their game plan approach.  Steelers seemed to struggle less with it, in part tI would suspect from familiarity.  It certainly was a factor in the law loss and perhaps in the Bethel fall down/interception for a touchdown.  Might it also have been a factor in the physical dominance by both steeler lines?  Was it bad enough to change the push off and lateral movements of line play and give the home team an additional edge?  I recall when Foxboro was virtually beach sand painted green and the league made us change it before the playoffs - could this be once again a factor for league consideration?
           
          Nothing is inevitable in my mind Mark.  The probability does escalate of course to make things exceedingly likely.  I think the league mayhave done us a 'favor' with the initial schedule to promote streaks - (three at home to get the unofficial and official streaks).  Bottom line is each week we must prepare for the challenges.  St. Louis can pass and we are banged up in the secondary. 
           
          Gaye did improve after the one toasting and had a nice deflection in the end-zone.  He may have been in shock at the role he was thrust within.  Hopefully we are prepared to step up.
           
          The challenge in the new roster era is to keep the right overflow of positional depth where the injuries mount.  Lacking a crystal ball this is a fair challenge.  We have additional depth at DL and that is holding up...except for the last 6.5 of the game against Pitt.
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mark/JW
          Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:34 PM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

          Zip,

          Positive reflection! 

          I will add this ... it was inevitable, especially in
          the way the schedule was stacked against them.  Two
          road games in a row against perennial division
          leaders, both with a bye week before.

          I did not watch but a few of the opening minutes,
          enough to see Law hurt and Gay torched.

          Bottom line ... too many injuries, too many turnovers,
          too good of field position!

          Someone has to do somehing about that field.  It is
          the worst in the league, and its only the end of
          October!

          The young players need to step up!  The rookies and
          2nd year DB's have to grow up quick, becuase I fear
          that Law may be out awhile.   
          --- Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:

          > No doubt this Patriot team deserves a few minutes of
          > appreciative review for an astounding
          > accomplishment.  While we are most certainly all
          > disappointed it is now over, it does not change the
          > remarkable feat.  From that Titans game through the
          > Jets game, 21 consecutive teams could not find a way
          > to beat the Patriots and a Superbowl Trophy hjoined
          > us in the process.  In 84 years of football this
          > feat has never previously been accomplished and we
          > may never see such a dramatic amount of wins
          > consecutively.
          >
          > We've all probably forgotten how to lose and
          > assuredly hope we won't have to reflect upon such
          > often.  Refledct on this tidbit a short bit: I sat
          > through a 1-15 season with New England - it would
          > have taken that Patriot team 21 YEARS to accomplish
          > this feat (yeah slightly less statistically).
          > Twenty-One Years!?!?!  My Nephew turned 20 yesterday
          > - it would not have taken place in his life
          > time...that's cumulative wins of the same magnitude
          > would not have taken place in his 20 year life...
          >
          > I'll review my thoughts on the loss later but for
          > just one more day I want to give credit to the
          > remarkable feat for which I am proud and pleased to
          > have witnessed with my Patriot Pride and Passion
          > strong!
          >
          > Go Pats!
          > Zip



                     
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        • Ed Bryant
          Either Otis or Earthwind is called for here. With Otis s experience against the Rams, he might give us a Brooks Barnard game. With the possibility of long
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
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            Either Otis or Earthwind is called for here.  With Otis's experience against the Rams, he might give us a Brooks Barnard game.  With the possibility of long term shortages in the tertiary (as the defensive backfield should be called), Earthwind is probably the more cap-friendly and upside-available alternative. 

            Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:
            The Reed blunder was significant on many fronts and in my two turning points of the game, that was one of the two significant points.  Reed had better get himself together because I'd say it is likely he will be our starting free safety this week with Eugene Wilson moving to corner.  No word on the Randall Gaye injury front but we are a depleted secondary about to challenge a pass hapy Rams team.  Martz certainly owes Belichick as well so not our best time for such things.
            '
             
            WHile no word on Grant Williams has been rendered, there is some unique trivia on players for the Rams/Pats going both ways.  A former Pats player from my very own home town of Nashua NH was paid by BOTH the Pats and the Rams for the same game - and took a Superbowl ring home at the same time.  Special Teamer Kole Ayi had spent enough time with both teams to receive a playoff paycheck from each and as an active (injury reserve) player, was gifted a ring.  Strange factoids!
             
            Will there be an Earthwind sighting?
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ed Bryant
            Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:27 PM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

            Let's look at one critical drive.  Je'rod Cherry was on his way to the ball from the left, and the ball was going to stop short of the goal line with or without human intervention; it simply needed to be downed, and Je'rod was right there in 1998 as a Saint, so he certainly knew to down the ball.  However, the rookie Dexter Reid got a little excited, and with a full head of steam, he slid.  The result was an unnecessary touchback.
            The one advantage the visitors had in that first quarter was the wind at their backs.  Pittsburgh had already punted twice, and had they taken over at their own 2, their play calling would have skewed conservative, which means they would likely have given the ball to Duce Staley twice with the Patriots knowing they would do so.  One stop there, and Gardocki punts into the wind. 
            Instead, Pittsburgh starts at the 20.  They still run Staley twice, for 3 and then 1 yard, but on third down, having scouted the same stupid coaches who took the blame for Seattle's open receivers, they threw in the flat to Verron Hayes, for 14 yards and a first down, a play they would not have dared if they were still inside their own 10. 
            The next two plays featured a penalty on Burress and a completion to Hines Ward on which Ty Law was seriously injured. 
            Pittsburgh ran once following the Law injury, and then, on 2nd and 6, NE sent 7 men.   Seven.  I don't understand.  Why do you need to risk what happened by sending seven guys at a rookie?  When the seven guys didn't get to  Roethlisberger, it seems very unfair to blame Gay for the touchdown.  There was a pump-fake, and there wasn't the slightest hope of help from a safety. 
            There followed the first of three NE drives lasting one play each.  I can't remember the last time we had three one play drives in a game, and I need help to recall when was the last time we had three one play drives, none of them touchdowns, all of them turn-overs.
            Pittsburgh had the personnel advantage, despite the loss of their nose tackle.  NE knows how to beat Pittsburgh with five wideouts and no running back, even when one of the wide-outs is Donald Hayes, but to do this without Branch and with a substandard Troy Brown is a different kettle, and the o line situation sure didn't help.  Does anyone know if it's been arranged for Grant Williams to play right tackle for both teams Sunday?

            Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:
            The field was terrible and I wonder if BB and crew will add Field review and preparation to their game plan approach.  Steelers seemed to struggle less with it, in part tI would suspect from familiarity.  It certainly was a factor in the law loss and perhaps in the Bethel fall down/interception for a touchdown.  Might it also have been a factor in the physical dominance by both steeler lines?  Was it bad enough to change the push off and lateral movements of line play and give the home team an additional edge?  I recall when Foxboro was virtually beach sand painted green and the league made us change it before the playoffs - could this be once again a factor for league consideration?
             
            Nothing is inevitable in my mind Mark.  The probability does escalate of course to make things exceedingly likely.  I think the league mayhave done us a 'favor' with the initial schedule to promote streaks - (three at home to get the unofficial and official streaks).  Bottom line is each week we must prepare for the challenges.  St. Louis can pass and we are banged up in the secondary. 
             
            Gaye did improve after the one toasting and had a nice deflection in the end-zone.  He may have been in shock at the role he was thrust within.  Hopefully we are prepared to step up.
             
            The challenge in the new roster era is to keep the right overflow of positional depth where the injuries mount.  Lacking a crystal ball this is a fair challenge.  We have additional depth at DL and that is holding up...except for the last 6.5 of the game against Pitt.
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Mark/JW
            Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

            Zip,

            Positive reflection! 

            I will add this ... it was inevitable, especially in
            the way the schedule was stacked against them.  Two
            road games in a row against perennial division
            leaders, both with a bye week before.

            I did not watch but a few of the opening minutes,
            enough to see Law hurt and Gay torched.

            Bottom line ... too many injuries, too many turnovers,
            too good of field position!

            Someone has to do somehing about that field.  It is
            the worst in the league, and its only the end of
            October!

            The young players need to step up!  The rookies and
            2nd year DB's have to grow up quick, becuase I fear
            that Law may be out awhile.   
            --- Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:

            > No doubt this Patriot team deserves a few minutes of
            > appreciative review for an astounding
            > accomplishment.  While we are most certainly all
            > disappointed it is now over, it does not change the
            > remarkable feat.  From that Titans game through the
            > Jets game, 21 consecutive teams could not find a way
            > to beat the Patriots and a Superbowl Trophy hjoined
            > us in the process.  In 84 years of football this
            > feat has never previously been accomplished and we
            > may never see such a dramatic amount of wins
            > consecutively.
            >
            > We've all probably forgotten how to lose and
            > assuredly hope we won't have to reflect upon such
            > often.  Refledct on this tidbit a short bit: I sat
            > through a 1-15 season with New England - it would
            > have taken that Patriot team 21 YEARS to accomplish
            > this feat (yeah slightly less statistically).
            > Twenty-One Years!?!?!  My Nephew turned 20 yesterday
            > - it would not have taken place in his life
            > time...that's cumulative wins of the same magnitude
            > would not have taken place in his 20 year life...
            >
            > I'll review my thoughts on the loss later but for
            > just one more day I want to give credit to the
            > remarkable feat for which I am proud and pleased to
            > have witnessed with my Patriot Pride and Passion
            > strong!
            >
            > Go Pats!
            > Zip



                       
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          • Ed Bryant
            Thank you. I must say I have no idea whether a response to an e-mail is automatically sent to many folks, or not, but I notice from the number of e-mails I m
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 3, 2004
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              Thank you.  I must say I have no idea whether a response to an e-mail is automatically sent to many folks, or not, but I notice from the number of e-mails I'm getting from me that they may indeed go to lots of folks.  I shall therefore have to try to be more judicious rather than respond to everything!
              I hope, to digress for a moment, that New Hampshire will turn out to have elected itself a new governor, and that New Hampshire will turn out to have favored the candidacy of Senator Kerry, however narrowly.  New Hampshire's Democratic primary has often winnowed the field among the Democrats, and then the state delivers its four votes to the other party, so if the Democrats have won New Hampshire for the first team since 1964, it's a bit like the Boston baseball team finally beating the New York team.  It''s just a shame New Hampshire didn't change columns four years ago, before the electoral college shifted southward.  Had that happened, George Bush would be a nobody trying to buy the Expos!  

              Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:
              You are quite correct that a streak is a combination of parts as opposed to a single nebulous entity.  The only singular part of it was the nature of the focus by the entire team to view each part for the "One Game at a Time" mantra which worked, in part, because they kept this attitude.
               
              Welcome to the list Ed, I will very much look forward to the sharing of your insightful commentary.
               
              I have more streak reflection for later but I want to get through some email and then write up a few game related posts for Pittsburgh.
               
              I have some concerns for St. Louis and I think we have some fine football ahead.  I so appreciate the build up and reflection afforded by football.  For me it is like no other sport and this is the time I most appreciate.
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Ed Bryant
              Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 5:54 PM
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] In pleasant Review

              As you know, I was prepared to be glad when the burden of having to win 34 games in a row was lifted, and I would have preferred to wait a week to preserve our seeding within the AFC.  Even as we look over our shoulders at Philadelphia next week and the Baltimore -Pittsburgh rematch for a template in case there's a next time, we can draw from yesterday's experience of defeat a greater appreciation of the 21 accomplishments that everyone inevitably has strung together, as though they were one feat. 
              The Sam Adams interception redux, the Kevin Faulk fumble at the start of the second half deep in our own territory redux, and the Chad Pennington young master redux, all of these things were back yesterday, but not to be lost are all of their cousins that did not produce defeat, be they the Reggie Howard interception, the Kevin Faulk fumble in Indy that caused Charlie Weis to fear running out the clock, or the smooth Pennington performance just a week ago.  This is a team which overcame a couple of blocked kicks in Houston, a monster comeback by the same Colts team that had monster comebacked the World Champion Buccaneers just a few weeks before, and which couldn't be broken no matter how many times the Panthers took the lead or tied the score in the Super Bowl.  The other guys are getting paid, too, and yet these guys won one and then the next one and the next one. 
              Now, I devoutly wish the players can be permitted to win the game that's this week, and I am grateful that the number of people telling me "it's in the bag" ahead of time will go down.  If it was easy as the knuckleheads claim, there'd be little joy when the win comes!   

              Randy Z Pierce <alaric02@...> wrote:
              No doubt this Patriot team deserves a few minutes of appreciative review for an astounding accomplishment.  While we are most certainly all disappointed it is now over, it does not change the remarkable feat.  From that Titans game through the Jets game, 21 consecutive teams could not find a way to beat the Patriots and a Superbowl Trophy hjoined us in the process.  In 84 years of football this feat has never previously been accomplished and we may never see such a dramatic amount of wins consecutively.
               
              We've all probably forgotten how to lose and assuredly hope we won't have to reflect upon such often.  Refledct on this tidbit a short bit: I sat through a 1-15 season with New England - it would have taken that Patriot team 21 YEARS to accomplish this feat (yeah slightly less statistically).  Twenty-One Years!?!?!  My Nephew turned 20 yesterday - it would not have taken place in his life time...that's cumulative wins of the same magnitude would not have taken place in his 20 year life...
               
              I'll review my thoughts on the loss later but for just one more day I want to give credit to the remarkable feat for which I am proud and pleased to have witnessed with my Patriot Pride and Passion strong!
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip


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