Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [patriotzip] Pats on NFL Network

Expand Messages
  • Randy Z Pierce
    I would join Bob George in a bit more support for Pete Carroll. While I m far happier with our current staff, Pete was victimized by some hard luck in the
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 17, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      I would join Bob George in a bit more support for Pete Carroll.  While I'm far happier with our current staff, Pete was victimized by some hard luck in the form of a badly managed salary cap which grossly overpaid Todd Rucci and Max Lane while  Bobby Grier demonstrated a fair bit of incompetent personall management.  Add to this the injuries which devestated the ends of the seasons under his regime.  Martin, Coates, BledsoeTed Johnson  and McGinest were all injury issues in the playoffs.  In his first year they lost a tough decision to the Steelers in which Kordell Steward scored the only touchdown despite three blown holding calls on the play.  The Pats lost 7-6...and were put out by our very own Mike Vrabel knocking the ball out of Bledsoe's hand before he might set up Adam Vinatieri heroics.  The following year the Zolak led playoff run met disaster with even more injuries and in the process Carroll lost the confidence and respect of the team.  Steve Sidwell was a good defensive coordinator and that was a tough defensive start to a regime.  So Carroll was not as 'soft' as people would make out his reputation but he didn't have the full devotion and attention to detail which the current regime sustains.  I hold no ill will to Pete Carroll but certainly appreciate the zealous dedication of the current group - and will look forward to their place in NFL history which is still unfurling before our...eyes.
       
      Zip
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: rogue35lk
      Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:31 AM
      Subject: [patriotzip] Pats on NFL Network

      The other day NFL network replayed the Indy game (at Foxboro) from
      September of 99.  I was really cool to look back almost 5 years into
      the Pats past, so many things have changed since then.  It was very
      interesting to compare Bledsoe then to Brady now.  To look back with
      an un-biased eye, it was really clear that Bledsoe was not a good QB
      when he was rushed and another thing that stuck in my mind is how
      sloppy Bledsoe looked when he had to check down to a RB.  Brady (in
      my mind) has always had the ability to "lead" his recievers
      accurately, so that they are able to get the most out of every
      catch, however, when bledsoe checked down to his back, very often it
      seemed the ball was behind them or lofted in so high the RB had to
      wait for the ball, etc.  I don't want to sound too down on Bledsoe,
      in the 2nd half, he had time to set his feet and he was almost
      unstopable.

      I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats sideline and
      their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my mouth.  I
      can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as one of
      the worst coaches in Pats history?

        



      To unsubscribe from Zip's New England Patriots Fan Group, send an email to:
      patriotzip-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




    • Randy Z Pierce
      Excellent point about career comparisons. I m not sure Brady has hit his peak yet, however. As a cranial QB whom excells at pocket awareness and making the
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 17, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        Excellent point about career comparisons.  I'm not sure Brady has hit his peak yet, however.  As a cranial QB whom excells at pocket awareness and making the right decision, I see his talent improving still over the next few years. (scary thought)
         
        I also believe Drew began his demise when he lost his security blanket.  Bledsoe was best at the mid-range pass which Coates excelled at utilizing.  True that Ben made Drew better but the reverse is likewise true.  I'll say nary a bad word about Drew although the strengths of Brady absolutely highlight the weakest parts of Drew's game.
         
        Go Pats!
         
        Zip
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:58 PM
        Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Pats on NFL Network

        True Pete Carroll should be considered as one of the worst patriots coach in franchise history. I also believe you cant compare Bledsoe to Brady in the 99 season because he was not at his peak in his career. Brady is in his prime right now. 96 you could compare the two.
        Peace,
        Bill Goodwin

        rogue35lk <levon.knowles@...> wrote:
        The other day NFL network replayed the Indy game (at Foxboro) from
        September of 99.  I was really cool to look back almost 5 years into
        the Pats past, so many things have changed since then.  It was very
        interesting to compare Bledsoe then to Brady now.  To look back with
        an un-biased eye, it was really clear that Bledsoe was not a good QB
        when he was rushed and another thing that stuck in my mind is how
        sloppy Bledsoe looked when he had to check down to a RB.  Brady (in
        my mind) has always had the ability to "lead" his recievers
        accurately, so that they are able to get the most out of every
        catch, however, when bledsoe checked down to his back, very often it
        seemed the ball was behind them or lofted in so high the RB had to
        wait for the ball, etc.  I don't want to sound too down on Bledsoe,
        in the 2nd half, he had time to set his feet and he was almost
        unstopable.

        I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats sideline and
        their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my mouth.  I
        can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as one of
        the worst coaches in Pats history?

          



        To unsubscribe from Zip's New England Patriots Fan Group, send an email to:
        patriotzip-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





        Do you Yahoo!?
        New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

        To unsubscribe from Zip's New England Patriots Fan Group, send an email to:
        patriotzip-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com




      • southwestnut
        Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll left and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who take 11-5 teams and have
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 29, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll left
          and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who
          take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
          year. Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA coach
          and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he wasn't a
          good coach for us. Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
          schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.

          BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-10
          the following year. Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
          and went 9-7 with them the following year.

          Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
          Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?


          --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
          <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
          > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach, but
          it
          > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
          > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and went to
          > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-7, 8-
          8.
          > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
          Bobby
          > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
          > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or nurture
          that
          > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
          don't
          > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although, by
          all
          > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
          enough.
          > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember hearing
          > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
          human,
          > not enough of an automaton.
          >
          > JMO,
          > fdb
          >
          >
          > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...> wrote:
          > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats sideline
          and
          > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
          mouth. I
          > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as one
          of
          > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
          > >
          > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
          > Belichick.
          > >
          > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
          > >
          > > Clive Rush.
          > > John Mazur.
          > > Dick MacPherson.
          > >
          > > And the worst...
          > >
          > > Rod Rust. It's tough to say this when he coached only one year,
          but
          > that
          > > one year was abominable.
          > >
          > > Bob G
        • frankdanabrewster
          I really don t think they would have done better if Pete had stayed that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool, horrible salary cap
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 30, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I really don't think they would have done better if Pete had stayed
            that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool,
            horrible salary cap status, a somewhat demoralized team. That would
            have been the same with Carrol. Bill had to see what he had, and work
            with it. He certainly couldn't go out and sign a bunch of free agents.
            I don't put a lot of stock in the schedule thing. Teams change
            significantly from year to year, it's hard to predict. The year before
            the Rams won it all they were like 3-13 or 4-12, I forget. And what
            about the Pats before the 2001 season; 5-11. A "last place schedule"
            can be every bit as tough as a "first place schedule". Having said
            that, I don't recall our strength of schedule during those specific
            seasons.
            Pete's a smart football guy, by all accounts, and a terrific person. I
            just think he lacked certain requisite characteristics to be a really
            successful NFL head coach. It's great to see him having the success
            he's having now.

            fdb


            --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "southwestnut" <netthreat@c...> wrote:
            > Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll left
            > and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who
            > take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
            > year. Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA coach
            > and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he wasn't a
            > good coach for us. Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
            > schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.
            >
            > BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-10
            > the following year. Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
            > and went 9-7 with them the following year.
            >
            > Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
            > Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?
            >
            >
            > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
            > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
            > > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach, but
            > it
            > > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
            > > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and went to
            > > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-7, 8-
            > 8.
            > > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
            > Bobby
            > > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
            > > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or nurture
            > that
            > > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
            > don't
            > > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although, by
            > all
            > > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
            > enough.
            > > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember hearing
            > > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
            > human,
            > > not enough of an automaton.
            > >
            > > JMO,
            > > fdb
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...> wrote:
            > > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats sideline
            > and
            > > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
            > mouth. I
            > > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as one
            > of
            > > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
            > > >
            > > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
            > > Belichick.
            > > >
            > > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
            > > >
            > > > Clive Rush.
            > > > John Mazur.
            > > > Dick MacPherson.
            > > >
            > > > And the worst...
            > > >
            > > > Rod Rust. It's tough to say this when he coached only one year,
            > but
            > > that
            > > > one year was abominable.
            > > >
            > > > Bob G
          • Doug Penney
            And there s nothing to say that Carroll coming back to a different situation in the NFL wouldn t really blossom. I seem to remember some bad years for BB in
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 30, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              And there's nothing to say that Carroll coming back to a different
              situation in the NFL wouldn't really blossom. I seem to remember
              some bad years for BB in Cleveland some time back... Its all in the
              timing.

              Doug

              --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
              <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
              > I really don't think they would have done better if Pete had stayed
              > that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool,
              > horrible salary cap status, a somewhat demoralized team. That would
              > have been the same with Carrol. Bill had to see what he had, and
              work
              > with it. He certainly couldn't go out and sign a bunch of free
              agents.
              > I don't put a lot of stock in the schedule thing. Teams change
              > significantly from year to year, it's hard to predict. The year
              before
              > the Rams won it all they were like 3-13 or 4-12, I forget. And what
              > about the Pats before the 2001 season; 5-11. A "last place schedule"
              > can be every bit as tough as a "first place schedule". Having said
              > that, I don't recall our strength of schedule during those specific
              > seasons.
              > Pete's a smart football guy, by all accounts, and a terrific
              person. I
              > just think he lacked certain requisite characteristics to be a
              really
              > successful NFL head coach. It's great to see him having the success
              > he's having now.
              >
              > fdb
              >
              >
              > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "southwestnut" <netthreat@c...>
              wrote:
              > > Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll
              left
              > > and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who
              > > take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
              > > year. Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA
              coach
              > > and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he
              wasn't a
              > > good coach for us. Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
              > > schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.
              > >
              > > BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-
              10
              > > the following year. Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
              > > and went 9-7 with them the following year.
              > >
              > > Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
              > > Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
              > > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
              > > > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach,
              but
              > > it
              > > > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
              > > > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and
              went to
              > > > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-
              7, 8-
              > > 8.
              > > > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
              > > Bobby
              > > > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
              > > > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or
              nurture
              > > that
              > > > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
              > > don't
              > > > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although,
              by
              > > all
              > > > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
              > > enough.
              > > > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember
              hearing
              > > > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
              > > human,
              > > > not enough of an automaton.
              > > >
              > > > JMO,
              > > > fdb
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...>
              wrote:
              > > > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats
              sideline
              > > and
              > > > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
              > > mouth. I
              > > > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as
              one
              > > of
              > > > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
              > > > >
              > > > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
              > > > Belichick.
              > > > >
              > > > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
              > > > >
              > > > > Clive Rush.
              > > > > John Mazur.
              > > > > Dick MacPherson.
              > > > >
              > > > > And the worst...
              > > > >
              > > > > Rod Rust. It's tough to say this when he coached only one
              year,
              > > but
              > > > that
              > > > > one year was abominable.
              > > > >
              > > > > Bob G
            • George R
              ***** I totally agree with you, Frank. I am a big fan of Pete Carrol, as a person. I m very happy to see him succeeding, as I really believed he would, at USC.
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 30, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                ***** I totally agree with you, Frank. I am a big fan of Pete Carrol, as a person. I'm very happy to see him succeeding, as I really believed he would, at USC. However, I do not believe that he has the right mix of leadership traits to succeed as a HC in the NFL. He is where he belongs. He is having great success there. I hope it continues for him, and for USC!
                 
                George

                frankdanabrewster <frank.dana@...> wrote:
                I really don't think they would have done better if Pete had stayed
                that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool,
                horrible salary cap status, a somewhat demoralized team. That would
                have been the same with Carrol. Bill had to see what he had, and work
                with it. He certainly couldn't go out and sign a bunch of free agents.
                I don't put a lot of stock in the schedule thing. Teams change
                significantly from year to year, it's hard to predict. The year before
                the Rams won it all they were like 3-13 or 4-12, I forget. And what
                about the Pats before the 2001 season; 5-11. A "last place schedule"
                can be every bit as tough as a "first place schedule". Having said
                that, I don't recall our strength of schedule during those specific
                seasons.
                Pete's a smart football guy, by all accounts, and a terrific person. I
                just think he lacked certain requisite characteristics to be a really
                successful NFL head coach. It's great to see him having the success
                he's having now.

                fdb


                --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "southwestnut" <netthreat@c...> wrote:
                > Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll left
                > and went 5 - 11 the following year .  There are many coaches who
                > take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
                > year.  Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA coach
                > and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he wasn't a
                > good coach for us.  Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
                > schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.
                >
                > BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-10
                > the following year.  Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
                > and went 9-7 with them the following year. 
                >
                > Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
                > Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?
                >
                >
                > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                > > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach, but
                > it
                > > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
                > > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and went to
                > > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-7, 8-
                > 8.
                > > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
                > Bobby
                > > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
                > > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or nurture
                > that
                > > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
                > don't
                > > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although, by
                > all
                > > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
                > enough.
                > > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember hearing
                > > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
                > human,
                > > not enough of an automaton.
                > >
                > > JMO,
                > > fdb
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...> wrote:
                > > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats sideline
                > and
                > > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
                > mouth.  I
                > > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as one
                > of
                > > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
                > > >
                > > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
                > > Belichick.
                > > >
                > > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
                > > >
                > > > Clive Rush.
                > > > John Mazur.
                > > > Dick MacPherson.
                > > >
                > > > And the worst...
                > > >
                > > > Rod Rust.  It's tough to say this when he coached only one year,
                > but
                > > that
                > > > one year was abominable.
                > > >
                > > > Bob G



                To unsubscribe from Zip's New England Patriots Fan Group, send an email to:
                patriotzip-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





                Do you Yahoo!?
                New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

              • frankdanabrewster
                Good point. Pete never got a fair shake with the NJ Jets, as I recall. One year and out the door is no way to evaluate a coach. fdb
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 30, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Good point. Pete never got a fair shake with the NJ Jets, as I recall.
                  One year and out the door is no way to evaluate a coach.

                  fdb


                  --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Penney" <kalastos@y...> wrote:
                  > And there's nothing to say that Carroll coming back to a different
                  > situation in the NFL wouldn't really blossom. I seem to remember
                  > some bad years for BB in Cleveland some time back... Its all in the
                  > timing.
                  >
                  > Doug
                  >
                  > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                  > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                  > > I really don't think they would have done better if Pete had stayed
                  > > that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool,
                  > > horrible salary cap status, a somewhat demoralized team. That would
                  > > have been the same with Carrol. Bill had to see what he had, and
                  > work
                  > > with it. He certainly couldn't go out and sign a bunch of free
                  > agents.
                  > > I don't put a lot of stock in the schedule thing. Teams change
                  > > significantly from year to year, it's hard to predict. The year
                  > before
                  > > the Rams won it all they were like 3-13 or 4-12, I forget. And what
                  > > about the Pats before the 2001 season; 5-11. A "last place schedule"
                  > > can be every bit as tough as a "first place schedule". Having said
                  > > that, I don't recall our strength of schedule during those specific
                  > > seasons.
                  > > Pete's a smart football guy, by all accounts, and a terrific
                  > person. I
                  > > just think he lacked certain requisite characteristics to be a
                  > really
                  > > successful NFL head coach. It's great to see him having the success
                  > > he's having now.
                  > >
                  > > fdb
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "southwestnut" <netthreat@c...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll
                  > left
                  > > > and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who
                  > > > take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
                  > > > year. Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA
                  > coach
                  > > > and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he
                  > wasn't a
                  > > > good coach for us. Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
                  > > > schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-
                  > 10
                  > > > the following year. Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
                  > > > and went 9-7 with them the following year.
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
                  > > > Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                  > > > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                  > > > > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach,
                  > but
                  > > > it
                  > > > > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
                  > > > > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and
                  > went to
                  > > > > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-
                  > 7, 8-
                  > > > 8.
                  > > > > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
                  > > > Bobby
                  > > > > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
                  > > > > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or
                  > nurture
                  > > > that
                  > > > > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
                  > > > don't
                  > > > > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although,
                  > by
                  > > > all
                  > > > > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
                  > > > enough.
                  > > > > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember
                  > hearing
                  > > > > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
                  > > > human,
                  > > > > not enough of an automaton.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > JMO,
                  > > > > fdb
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats
                  > sideline
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
                  > > > mouth. I
                  > > > > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as
                  > one
                  > > > of
                  > > > > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
                  > > > > Belichick.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Clive Rush.
                  > > > > > John Mazur.
                  > > > > > Dick MacPherson.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > And the worst...
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Rod Rust. It's tough to say this when he coached only one
                  > year,
                  > > > but
                  > > > > that
                  > > > > > one year was abominable.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Bob G
                • frankdanabrewster
                  To follow up my own message; to be honest, Pete did walk into a pretty good situation here, good organization, a team that had been built into a contender.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 30, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    To follow up my own message; to be honest, Pete did walk into a pretty
                    good situation here, good organization, a team that had been built
                    into a contender. It's not like when he went to the Jets. They were a
                    mess. I think that he was put in a position to win here. It just
                    didn't work out.

                    fdb


                    --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                    <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                    > Good point. Pete never got a fair shake with the NJ Jets, as I recall.
                    > One year and out the door is no way to evaluate a coach.
                    >
                    > fdb
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Penney" <kalastos@y...> wrote:
                    > > And there's nothing to say that Carroll coming back to a different
                    > > situation in the NFL wouldn't really blossom. I seem to remember
                    > > some bad years for BB in Cleveland some time back... Its all in the
                    > > timing.
                    > >
                    > > Doug
                    > >
                    > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                    > > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                    > > > I really don't think they would have done better if Pete had stayed
                    > > > that fourth year. BB came into a tough situation; thin talent pool,
                    > > > horrible salary cap status, a somewhat demoralized team. That would
                    > > > have been the same with Carrol. Bill had to see what he had, and
                    > > work
                    > > > with it. He certainly couldn't go out and sign a bunch of free
                    > > agents.
                    > > > I don't put a lot of stock in the schedule thing. Teams change
                    > > > significantly from year to year, it's hard to predict. The year
                    > > before
                    > > > the Rams won it all they were like 3-13 or 4-12, I forget. And what
                    > > > about the Pats before the 2001 season; 5-11. A "last place schedule"
                    > > > can be every bit as tough as a "first place schedule". Having said
                    > > > that, I don't recall our strength of schedule during those specific
                    > > > seasons.
                    > > > Pete's a smart football guy, by all accounts, and a terrific
                    > > person. I
                    > > > just think he lacked certain requisite characteristics to be a
                    > > really
                    > > > successful NFL head coach. It's great to see him having the success
                    > > > he's having now.
                    > > >
                    > > > fdb
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "southwestnut" <netthreat@c...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > Bill Belichick took that same Patriots team after Pete Carroll
                    > > left
                    > > > > and went 5 - 11 the following year . There are many coaches who
                    > > > > take 11-5 teams and have done much worse than 10-6 the following
                    > > > > year. Pete Carroll has distinguished himself as a great NCAA
                    > > coach
                    > > > > and he did nothing while at NE to disprove the fact that he
                    > > wasn't a
                    > > > > good coach for us. Also Carroll went 10-6 with a first place
                    > > > > schedule, Parcells went 11-5 with a last place schedule.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > BTW, Bill Parcells after his first NE playoff team (10-6) went 6-
                    > > 10
                    > > > > the following year. Bill Belichick took his 2001 Super Bowl team
                    > > > > and went 9-7 with them the following year.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Do you realize that in the last 8 years (Parcells -1, Carroll -3,
                    > > > > Belichick -4) we have had only 1 losing season?
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster"
                    > > > > <frank.dana@c...> wrote:
                    > > > > > Winning percentage is one factor to use in evaluating a coach,
                    > > but
                    > > > > it
                    > > > > > doesn't really tell the whole story. You have to look at what he
                    > > > > > inherited. Parcells built a solid team, that went 11-5, and
                    > > went to
                    > > > > > the SB. If I remember correctly, Carroll's teams went 10-6, 9-
                    > > 7, 8-
                    > > > > 8.
                    > > > > > Not exactly a good trend. I think most observers think Pete and
                    > > > > Bobby
                    > > > > > Grier were not very good at "shopping for the groceries". Some
                    > > > > > disagree, but many say he did not instill discipline, or
                    > > nurture
                    > > > > that
                    > > > > > work ethic that is so neccessary for success in this league. I
                    > > > > don't
                    > > > > > think he was too much of a nice guy, as people claim (although,
                    > > by
                    > > > > all
                    > > > > > accounts, he was that); it's more that he wasn't single minded
                    > > > > enough.
                    > > > > > It's almost a requirement to succeed in the NFL. I remember
                    > > hearing
                    > > > > > that he liked to play jazz piano, for instance. Too much of a
                    > > > > human,
                    > > > > > not enough of an automaton.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > JMO,
                    > > > > > fdb
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Bob George" <bobg@b...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > > I have to admit, the first time they showed the Pats
                    > > sideline
                    > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > their was PETE CARROLL I think I threw up a little in my
                    > > > > mouth. I
                    > > > > > > > can't be the only one that thinks he dserves to go down as
                    > > one
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > the worst coaches in Pats history?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Not hardly...Carroll is either third in win % behind Berry and
                    > > > > > Belichick.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Worst Patriot head coaches?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Clive Rush.
                    > > > > > > John Mazur.
                    > > > > > > Dick MacPherson.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > And the worst...
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Rod Rust. It's tough to say this when he coached only one
                    > > year,
                    > > > > but
                    > > > > > that
                    > > > > > > one year was abominable.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Bob G
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.