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  • George Richman
    FROM: George Richman (LPC) Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn t care
    Message 1 of 11 , May 13 1:00 AM
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      FROM: George Richman
      (LPC)
      Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

      One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

      --- George

      ---------- Forwarded message ----------

      image
      This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
      Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
      Preview by Yahoo
       

    • David Brunat
      He wants to be the cause celeb more than a football player. He reported to the combines out of shape because he is more focused on his cause than his football
      Message 2 of 11 , May 13 4:31 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        He wants to be the cause celeb more than a football player.  He reported to the combines out of shape because he is more focused on his cause than his football career.  Unless the coach crushes these distractions he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of making the team.

        BrewGnat

        Sent from my iPad

        On May 13, 2014, at 4:00 AM, "George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip]" <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

         

        FROM: George Richman
        (LPC)
        Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

        One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

        --- George

        ---------- Forwarded message ----------

        image
        This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
        Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
        Preview by Yahoo
         

      • Stephen Basile
        Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George. I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself,
        Message 3 of 11 , May 13 9:36 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.

          I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


          I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

          Basile

          -- 
          Steve Basile
          Manager/Partner
          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
          Austin, TX
          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
          Web: www.bdrileys.com

          On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


          FROM: George Richman
          (LPC)
          Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

          One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

          --- George

          ---------- Forwarded message ----------

          image
          This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
          Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
          Preview by Yahoo
           



        • George Richman
          I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to
          Message 4 of 11 , May 13 9:22 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

            As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

            I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

            --- George
            All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


            On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
             

            Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


            I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


            I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

            Basile

            -- 
            Steve Basile
            Manager/Partner
            B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
            Austin, TX
            Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
            Web: www.bdrileys.com

            On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


            FROM: George Richman
            (LPC)
            Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

            One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

            --- George

            ---------- Forwarded message ----------

            image
            This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
            Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
            Preview by Yahoo
             




          • Steve Basile
            OK, You opened the door. Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the
            Message 5 of 11 , May 13 11:35 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              OK, You opened the door.

              Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

              I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

              It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
              Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

              He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

              One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

              Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

              Basile

              -- 
              Steve Basile
              Manager/Partner
              B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
              Austin, TX
              Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
              Web: www.bdrileys.com

              On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


              I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

              As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

              I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

              --- George
              All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


              On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               

              Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


              I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


              I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

              Basile

              -- 
              Steve Basile
              Manager/Partner
              B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
              Austin, TX
              Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
              Web: www.bdrileys.com

              On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


              FROM: George Richman
              (LPC)
              Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

              One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

              --- George

              ---------- Forwarded message ----------

              image
              This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
              Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
              Preview by Yahoo
               









              Steve Basile




            • George Richman
              Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, sports news , any more than Tim Tebow s religious
              Message 6 of 11 , May 14 6:51 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                --- George
                All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                OK, You opened the door.


                Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                Basile

                -- 
                Steve Basile
                Manager/Partner
                B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                Austin, TX
                Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                Web: www.bdrileys.com

                On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                --- George
                All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                 

                Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                Basile

                -- 
                Steve Basile
                Manager/Partner
                B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                Austin, TX
                Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                Web: www.bdrileys.com

                On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                FROM: George Richman
                (LPC)
                Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                --- George

                ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                image
                This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                Preview by Yahoo
                 









                Steve Basile





              • Steve Basile
                Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news. Jason Collins: Not NBA news. Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news. Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news. Lee Elder, not PGA news.
                Message 7 of 11 , May 14 8:55 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news.
                  Jason Collins: Not NBA news.
                  Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news.
                  Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news.
                  Lee Elder, not PGA news.

                  C'mon man.

                  -- 
                  Steve Basile
                  Manager/Partner
                  B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                  Austin, TX
                  Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                  Web: www.bdrileys.com

                  On May 14, 2014, at 8:51 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                  Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                  --- George
                  All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                  On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                   

                  OK, You opened the door.


                  Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                  I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                  It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                  Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                  He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                  One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                  Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                  Basile

                  -- 
                  Steve Basile
                  Manager/Partner
                  B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                  Austin, TX
                  Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                  Web: www.bdrileys.com

                  On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                  I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                  As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                  I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                  --- George
                  All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                  On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                   

                  Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                  I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                  I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                  Basile

                  -- 
                  Steve Basile
                  Manager/Partner
                  B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                  Austin, TX
                  Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                  Web: www.bdrileys.com

                  On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                  FROM: George Richman
                  (LPC)
                  Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                  One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                  --- George

                  ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                  image
                  This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                  Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                  Preview by Yahoo
                   









                  Steve Basile








                • George Richman
                  Right. Now you re catching on, Steve. ;-) All of those are social news . Personally, and this is totally a personal opinion, I don t care about the personal
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 14 10:58 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Right. Now you're catching on, Steve. ;-)

                    All of those are "social news". Personally, and this is totally a personal opinion, I don't care about the personal lives of players when I'm tuned in to a sports program. Those very important issues are not directly related to the sports played by those courageous people. When I want to know about such things, I can and do read about or see them on "general" news shows, where social issues are properly given wide attention because they are part of the social structure of the world. Sports, for ME, is a place to escape from the more serious issues of the world. It's "play time". 

                    If you'll recall, over the years, I have always felt the same way about the ugly intrusion of the financial elements of the game. I hate contract talk. It is, without doubt, much more a part of the NFL than a person's race, religion, or sexual orientation. But, for a purist like me, money is not sports. I wish they were all paid equally on a set scale, so it would never even be discussed. 

                    Whether you agree with me or not, I hope you understand my point in that regard. My irritation is not with Michael Sam. It's with the principle of placing a social issue above the game of football in "sports venues".  

                    --- George
                    All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                    On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     

                    Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news.

                    Jason Collins: Not NBA news.
                    Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news.
                    Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news.
                    Lee Elder, not PGA news.

                    C'mon man.

                    -- 
                    Steve Basile
                    Manager/Partner
                    B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                    Austin, TX
                    Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                    Web: www.bdrileys.com

                    On May 14, 2014, at 8:51 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                    Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                    --- George
                    All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                    On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     

                    OK, You opened the door.


                    Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                    I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                    It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                    Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                    He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                    One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                    Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                    Basile

                    -- 
                    Steve Basile
                    Manager/Partner
                    B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                    Austin, TX
                    Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                    Web: www.bdrileys.com

                    On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                    I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                    As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                    I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                    --- George
                    All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                    On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     

                    Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                    I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                    I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                    Basile

                    -- 
                    Steve Basile
                    Manager/Partner
                    B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                    Austin, TX
                    Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                    Web: www.bdrileys.com

                    On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                    FROM: George Richman
                    (LPC)
                    Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                    One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                    --- George

                    ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                    image
                    This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                    Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                    Preview by Yahoo
                     









                    Steve Basile









                  • Steve Basile
                    I caught on back in the 70 s George. Save your patronizing schtick. And no, I don t agree with you. and I certainly do not understand your point, nor those
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 15 12:10 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I caught on back in the 70's George.  Save your patronizing schtick.

                      And no, I don't agree with you.  and I certainly do not understand your point, nor those that were attempted by the columnist you linked.

                      This event is NEWS, and its is most assuredly SPORTS news whether you  or your narrow-minded uninformed columnist think it is or not. News doesn't fail to be news because YOU don't like the topic or sub-topic or because YOU don't think it fits in with some purist view of almighty sport.  There is a reason that Bloomberg, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, Sky, MSNBC, ESPN, Fox Sports, Reuters, Sports Illustrated, AP and virtually every other news and sporting news organization in the world reported this story as it happened.  They report news, and guess what? In their considered opinion, IT'S NEWS.  

                      And it changed the world of sport whether one fan or one heterosexist columnist likes that fact or not.  This "social issue" as you call it is material to how we as fans will view this sport in years to come.  It changes from this day forward what gay kids who come out might consider as they strive to achieve in football and in other sports. It opens doors for athletes who might never have dreamed of playing the game.  It is literally and figuratively, a game changer.

                      To pretend it doesn't belies a discomfort with sexual orientation that says more about the writer than it does about a player trying to achieve his goal of playing in the NFL.

                      Basile
                      -- 
                      Steve Basile
                      Manager/Partner
                      B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                      Austin, TX
                      Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                      Web: www.bdrileys.com



                      On May 15, 2014, at 12:58 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      Right. Now you're catching on, Steve. ;-)

                      All of those are "social news". Personally, and this is totally a personal opinion, I don't care about the personal lives of players when I'm tuned in to a sports program. Those very important issues are not directly related to the sports played by those courageous people. When I want to know about such things, I can and do read about or see them on "general" news shows, where social issues are properly given wide attention because they are part of the social structure of the world. Sports, for ME, is a place to escape from the more serious issues of the world. It's "play time". 

                      If you'll recall, over the years, I have always felt the same way about the ugly intrusion of the financial elements of the game. I hate contract talk. It is, without doubt, much more a part of the NFL than a person's race, religion, or sexual orientation. But, for a purist like me, money is not sports. I wish they were all paid equally on a set scale, so it would never even be discussed. 

                      Whether you agree with me or not, I hope you understand my point in that regard. My irritation is not with Michael Sam. It's with the principle of placing a social issue above the game of football in "sports venues".  

                      --- George
                      All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                      On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news.

                      Jason Collins: Not NBA news.
                      Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news.
                      Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news.
                      Lee Elder, not PGA news.

                      C'mon man.

                      -- 
                      Steve Basile
                      Manager/Partner
                      B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                      Austin, TX
                      Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                      Web: www.bdrileys.com

                      On May 14, 2014, at 8:51 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                      --- George
                      All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                      On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      OK, You opened the door.


                      Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                      I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                      It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                      Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                      He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                      One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                      Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                      Basile

                      -- 
                      Steve Basile
                      Manager/Partner
                      B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                      Austin, TX
                      Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                      Web: www.bdrileys.com

                      On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                      As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                      I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                      --- George
                      All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                      On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                      I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                      I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                      Basile

                      -- 
                      Steve Basile
                      Manager/Partner
                      B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                      Austin, TX
                      Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                      Web: www.bdrileys.com

                      On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                      FROM: George Richman
                      (LPC)
                      Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                      One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                      --- George

                      ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                      image
                      This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                      Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                      Preview by Yahoo
                       









                      Steve Basile












                    • George Richman
                      OK, Steve. We ve both, I believe, clearly expressed our opinions. They differ. So be it. I respect you and your opinion. Hopefully, you can feel the same way.
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 15 12:52 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, Steve. We've both, I believe, clearly expressed our opinions. They differ. So be it. I respect you and your opinion. Hopefully, you can feel the same way. 

                        Back to the Patriots! :-)

                        --- George
                        All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                        On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        I caught on back in the 70's George.  Save your patronizing schtick.


                        And no, I don't agree with you.  and I certainly do not understand your point, nor those that were attempted by the columnist you linked.

                        This event is NEWS, and its is most assuredly SPORTS news whether you  or your narrow-minded uninformed columnist think it is or not. News doesn't fail to be news because YOU don't like the topic or sub-topic or because YOU don't think it fits in with some purist view of almighty sport.  There is a reason that Bloomberg, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, Sky, MSNBC, ESPN, Fox Sports, Reuters, Sports Illustrated, AP and virtually every other news and sporting news organization in the world reported this story as it happened.  They report news, and guess what? In their considered opinion, IT'S NEWS.  

                        And it changed the world of sport whether one fan or one heterosexist columnist likes that fact or not.  This "social issue" as you call it is material to how we as fans will view this sport in years to come.  It changes from this day forward what gay kids who come out might consider as they strive to achieve in football and in other sports. It opens doors for athletes who might never have dreamed of playing the game.  It is literally and figuratively, a game changer.

                        To pretend it doesn't belies a discomfort with sexual orientation that says more about the writer than it does about a player trying to achieve his goal of playing in the NFL.

                        Basile
                        -- 
                        Steve Basile
                        Manager/Partner
                        B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                        Austin, TX
                        Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                        Web: www.bdrileys.com



                        On May 15, 2014, at 12:58 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                        Right. Now you're catching on, Steve. ;-)

                        All of those are "social news". Personally, and this is totally a personal opinion, I don't care about the personal lives of players when I'm tuned in to a sports program. Those very important issues are not directly related to the sports played by those courageous people. When I want to know about such things, I can and do read about or see them on "general" news shows, where social issues are properly given wide attention because they are part of the social structure of the world. Sports, for ME, is a place to escape from the more serious issues of the world. It's "play time". 

                        If you'll recall, over the years, I have always felt the same way about the ugly intrusion of the financial elements of the game. I hate contract talk. It is, without doubt, much more a part of the NFL than a person's race, religion, or sexual orientation. But, for a purist like me, money is not sports. I wish they were all paid equally on a set scale, so it would never even be discussed. 

                        Whether you agree with me or not, I hope you understand my point in that regard. My irritation is not with Michael Sam. It's with the principle of placing a social issue above the game of football in "sports venues".  

                        --- George
                        All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                        On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news.

                        Jason Collins: Not NBA news.
                        Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news.
                        Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news.
                        Lee Elder, not PGA news.

                        C'mon man.

                        -- 
                        Steve Basile
                        Manager/Partner
                        B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                        Austin, TX
                        Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                        Web: www.bdrileys.com

                        On May 14, 2014, at 8:51 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                        Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                        --- George
                        All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                        On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        OK, You opened the door.


                        Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                        I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                        It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                        Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                        He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                        One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                        Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                        Basile

                        -- 
                        Steve Basile
                        Manager/Partner
                        B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                        Austin, TX
                        Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                        Web: www.bdrileys.com

                        On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                        I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                        As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                        I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                        --- George
                        All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                        On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                         

                        Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                        I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                        I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                        Basile

                        -- 
                        Steve Basile
                        Manager/Partner
                        B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                        Austin, TX
                        Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                        Web: www.bdrileys.com

                        On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                        FROM: George Richman
                        (LPC)
                        Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                        One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                        --- George

                        ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                        image
                        This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                        Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                        Preview by Yahoo
                         









                        Steve Basile













                      • Steve Basile
                        Fair enough. I m happy to agree to disagree. Only 84 days till the first pre-season snap for the Pats versus that team from Washington! And the hunt is on in
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 15 11:38 AM
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                          Fair enough.  I'm happy to agree to disagree.

                          Only 84 days till the first  pre-season snap for the Pats versus that team from Washington!

                          And the hunt is on in New England for someone Hernandez did not murder.

                          Go Pats.
                          -- 
                          Steve Basile
                          Manager/Partner
                          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                          Austin, TX
                          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                          Web: www.bdrileys.com



                          On May 15, 2014, at 2:52 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          OK, Steve. We've both, I believe, clearly expressed our opinions. They differ. So be it. I respect you and your opinion. Hopefully, you can feel the same way. 

                          Back to the Patriots! :-)

                          --- George
                          All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                          On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          I caught on back in the 70's George.  Save your patronizing schtick.


                          And no, I don't agree with you.  and I certainly do not understand your point, nor those that were attempted by the columnist you linked.

                          This event is NEWS, and its is most assuredly SPORTS news whether you  or your narrow-minded uninformed columnist think it is or not. News doesn't fail to be news because YOU don't like the topic or sub-topic or because YOU don't think it fits in with some purist view of almighty sport.  There is a reason that Bloomberg, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, Sky, MSNBC, ESPN, Fox Sports, Reuters, Sports Illustrated, AP and virtually every other news and sporting news organization in the world reported this story as it happened.  They report news, and guess what? In their considered opinion, IT'S NEWS.  

                          And it changed the world of sport whether one fan or one heterosexist columnist likes that fact or not.  This "social issue" as you call it is material to how we as fans will view this sport in years to come.  It changes from this day forward what gay kids who come out might consider as they strive to achieve in football and in other sports. It opens doors for athletes who might never have dreamed of playing the game.  It is literally and figuratively, a game changer.

                          To pretend it doesn't belies a discomfort with sexual orientation that says more about the writer than it does about a player trying to achieve his goal of playing in the NFL.

                          Basile
                          -- 
                          Steve Basile
                          Manager/Partner
                          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                          Austin, TX
                          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                          Web: www.bdrileys.com



                          On May 15, 2014, at 12:58 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          Right. Now you're catching on, Steve. ;-)

                          All of those are "social news". Personally, and this is totally a personal opinion, I don't care about the personal lives of players when I'm tuned in to a sports program. Those very important issues are not directly related to the sports played by those courageous people. When I want to know about such things, I can and do read about or see them on "general" news shows, where social issues are properly given wide attention because they are part of the social structure of the world. Sports, for ME, is a place to escape from the more serious issues of the world. It's "play time". 

                          If you'll recall, over the years, I have always felt the same way about the ugly intrusion of the financial elements of the game. I hate contract talk. It is, without doubt, much more a part of the NFL than a person's race, religion, or sexual orientation. But, for a purist like me, money is not sports. I wish they were all paid equally on a set scale, so it would never even be discussed. 

                          Whether you agree with me or not, I hope you understand my point in that regard. My irritation is not with Michael Sam. It's with the principle of placing a social issue above the game of football in "sports venues".  

                          --- George
                          All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                          On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Jackie Robinson: Not MLB news.

                          Jason Collins: Not NBA news.
                          Danica Patrick: Not Indy Car news.
                          Martina Navratilova: Not Tennis news.
                          Lee Elder, not PGA news.

                          C'mon man.

                          -- 
                          Steve Basile
                          Manager/Partner
                          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                          Austin, TX
                          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                          Web: www.bdrileys.com

                          On May 14, 2014, at 8:51 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          Steve, not one word of what you have just posted has anything to do with the NFL. It is not, in any way, "sports news", any more than Tim Tebow's religious preferences were/are. That is all that need be said on this. 

                          --- George
                          All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                          On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Steve Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          OK, You opened the door.


                          Anyone who has spent any time at all in the closet, hiding his orientation (and a significant part of who he is as a person) from the world for fear of condemnation, scorn, abuse or worse might be qualified to comment on Sam's reasons for declaring his orientation how he did and when he did, and on the significance of the first ever NFL draftee who happens to be gay and open about it prior to the draft.  The columnist has not, and is not, and he is simply WRONG on many counts, speaking about things from a purely heterosexist standpoint.

                          I have.  I know whereof I speak.  First: This is a huge step for a player, a team and for the NFL. It is unprecedented. It is historic.  It is a barrier that has been broken once and once only, and it happened in the 7th round of the 2014 NFL Draft.  

                          It is an EVENT, no matter how icky or "embarrassed" it makes some people feel.  Secondly, Who Michael Sam is is no more limited to "his sexual habits" or "what he does in his bedroom" than the writer's favorite sexual; position is useful in defining who HE is as a person, and I for one am absolutely sick of that one-sided heterosexist crap and that myopic, blinkered perspective.  Thirdly, Every single NFL player, and most of us on this list have "flaunted" their heterosexuality openly and in many ways for years, on TV, in the office, in conversation, in use of pronouns, in wearing wedding rings, and countless other ways.  This columnist has no right to denigrate Sam's decision to announce HIS orientation how and when he wants to.  That's a tint bay step toward balance and fairness.  Columnist Matt Walsh "can't have it both ways."
                          Finally, if anyone does not see Sam's actions in being open and public about who he is as brave or heroic, we have very different definitions of those words. He could have chosen to lie.  He could have chosen to hide. He could have chosen to shut up and in all likelihood be drafted sooner and make more money. He could have created a fictitious girlfriend.

                          He did not.  He took a step forward for all who might follow him with little regard for the consequences for him personally, and that is the very definition of brave.

                          One whining under-informed assumedly heterosexual communist opining on this topic is journalistic fly shit in the pepper shaker of life, and ordinarily I would have ignored it as I ignore a lot of ignorance on this topic, but YOU chose to included it here, and so now I am responding.

                          Matt Walsh is misguided, uninformed, heterosexist and ignorant on this topic, and his column has no place among educated fans of the NFL.

                          Basile

                          -- 
                          Steve Basile
                          Manager/Partner
                          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                          Austin, TX
                          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                          Web: www.bdrileys.com

                          On May 13, 2014, at 11:22 PM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          I have to disagree with you on this, Steve. Over the years, we have frequently discussed events or issues here that bear only a tangendental relationship to the Patriots; but are a major issue for the NFL. (Thus the "LPC" label.) At this point in time, the two biggest issues being discussed in the press before, during, and after one of its biggest annual events (the draft) are Johnny Manziel and Michael Sam. Manziel is being discussed for his football skills. Sam for a reason totally unrelated to the game of football. It's the national press, and not me, that is "way over the line" on the attention being given to a player with such relatively little talent (according to the "expert" evaluations), who may not even make the final roster of the team that drafted him. 

                          As I said in my note, I couldn't care less about Sam's sexual preferences; any more than I care about Tim Tebow's religious preferences.  I made my feelings about the excessive media attention to Tebow's personal religious views and expressions very clear, right here in this venue. There were others who joined in. No one disagreed that the subject was worthy of discussion in this forum. I see very little, if any difference in the two issues, other than the specifics related to the two players.

                          I agree that we should stick to football, and primarily Patriots related issues here, Steve, and I've had plenty to say in that regard. But I think that commenting on the failure of the media to do so, whether personally or by referenced articles, is very much a relevant topic for us here. And just to make that perfectly clear, it is the media coverage and focus that I am attacking, not Michael Sam. I couldn't care less about him or any other drafted player who is not a New England Patriot. 

                          --- George
                          All we can hope and strive for is a system of laws and education that minimizes the natural cruelty within man; and allows for survival of the fittest in social, as well as physical and economic terms. 


                          On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:36 PM, Stephen Basile avatar@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Including that column on this topic was way out of line on this list George.


                          I am going to respect the list and its purpose by keeping my reaction to myself, besides saying the columnist is wrong on so many counts about which he has no information.


                          I'd like to get back to Patriots football thanks, and encourage George and everyone on the list to do the same.

                          Basile

                          -- 
                          Steve Basile
                          Manager/Partner
                          B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
                          Austin, TX
                          Official Home: Austin Patriots Club
                          Web: www.bdrileys.com

                          On May 13, 2014, at 3:00 AM, George Richman patswingr@... [patriotzip] <patriotzip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          FROM: George Richman
                          (LPC)
                          Interesting blog; with even more interesting comments. But it has nothing to do with the NFL, my favorite sport. And I couldn't care less about the sexual preferences of Michael Sam, or any other person on the face of the Earth. I'm heterosexual and agnostic. You are what you are, sexually and religiously. If you let me be what I am; I'll let you be what you are. So, with the exception of murderous fundamentalist members of the Nation of Islam, such preferences are of no interest to me! 

                          One final comment. The NFL today is, above all else, a business. If Michael Sam can play his position more effectively than others competing with him for a position on the St Louis Rams, he'll make the roster. If he can't, he won't. His sexuality will have nothing to do with it, assuming that he keeps it to himself in the locker room. And if the Patriots, or any other NFL team, believes that he is better than the last LB on their roster, they'll likely pick him up. And that is as it should be! 

                          --- George

                          ---------- Forwarded message ----------

                          image
                          This is my homophobic rant against Michael Sam - The...
                          Let’s just cut to the chase. We’ve all read this script before. If you do anything less than fall to your knees weeping tears of jubilation that a man who is sexual...
                          Preview by Yahoo
                           









                          Steve Basile
















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