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Re: [patriotzip] Talib is returning...

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  • Susan Moore
    I think so too--last year he didn t have a full season with us, so I think that he has more to show. ... From: frankdanabrewster To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 16, 2013
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      I think so too--last year he didn't have a full season with us, so I think that he has more to show.
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 10:29 AM
      Subject: [patriotzip] Talib is returning...

       
    • George Richman
      Definitely good, Frank; but not great. I m disappointed that it s only a 1-year deal, but that s obviously a smart business decision by his agent, since the
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 16, 2013
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        Definitely good, Frank; but not great. I'm disappointed that it's only a 1-year deal, but that's obviously a smart "business decision" by his agent, since the CB market this year is not drawing big bucks. The thinking on their end is that Talib, with a good full season as a Patriot, will be able to demand much more money next year. That's bad news, since it means that the Patriots could be over the barrel again next year for this position. 

        The signing of Adrian Wilson is similarly a good news - bad news deal. His talent is beyond question. He definitely upgrades a position of need for our team. But, once again, it's likely short term. He's 33. How many more years has he got left? Of course, I should add that Tavon Wilson looked pretty good, for a rookie, and he should be able to improve with Adrian as a tutor. 

        Still, in both cases, if we look at it one year at a time, as I'm sure BB does, both of these moves make our secondary look much stronger going into the 2013 season. That was my choice as the highest priority for the team during this off-season - strengthening their weak secondary. I'm concerned, of course, about the Dennard situation. This kid looked really good in his brief time on the field last season. If we have him available to play CB opposite Talib, with Wilson at SS, McCourty at FS, and, when needed, Arrington as the slot CB, I think we'll have a very solid secondary this year. But I'd still like to see another CB added before camp begins. 

        On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:29 AM, frankdanabrewster <frank.dana@...> wrote:



        --
        -- George
      • Ed Bryant
        George, is a one year deal for Talib so bad?  When the Patriots asked us to root for Randy Moss s team in 2007, everyone was sure he would be on his best
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 17, 2013
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          George, is a one year deal for Talib so bad?  When the Patriots asked us to root for Randy Moss's team in 2007, everyone was sure he would be on his best behavior because he was on a one year deal. 

          In Talib's case, as for the "character" question, a one year deal favors the team.  As for his hip and other body parts, it's only a one year bet.  As for the money, the Patriots chose not to franchise Talib (or Volllmer), and the market price turned out to be a signifcant saving with Talib, and may well come out OK with Vollmer, another player whose health, not his talent, is the question.

          Back when the tag was still up in the air, I read at least one "metric" by which Talib, as a Patriot, was giving up a lot of yards per throw that came his way.  Now, as a fan of a team that scores 500 points, I loved how Talib refused to give up plus-20 catches to every Tom, Dick, and Harry as others in our secondary did, and I was happy with his play overall, although that first INT/TD certainly bought him the benefit of doubt with us as it would not with the coaches who break down every single play, but I think his work stands out.

          In Devin McCourty's tough second year, I was the only one I know protesting that the Patriots could not or would not roll help his way, and the fans mostly hung him out to dry, not noticing that Kyle Arrington's seven interceptions might have been a result of a scheme that gave him the safety help.  By my own measure, I have to give Talib '12 the nod over McCourty '11. 

          As for the deployment, I think Field Yates (I think it was Yates) is onto something wondering if Adrian Wilson won't finally be the elephant safety who functions as a linebacker, the hybrid job for which Tank Williams and Josh Barrett were hired, though neither produced worth a lick.   Assuming as I do that the Patriots are still good for 463 points on offense this year (82% of all stats are made up on the spot!), I think Arrington will be on the field more than half of the time on defense, and that five and a half DB's per snap will soon be the norm as the NFL morphs into Arena Ball. 

          Any way, there are always omens, and if Defending Champion Baltimore Ravens isn't an omen, then what are Walt Coleman and Fred Coleman for????

          I know George has given up being our general manager in this part of the off-season, but damn, this year, Jacob needs your calm hand on the tiller!!!





          From: George Richman <patswingr@...>
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:53 AM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Talib is returning...

           
          Definitely good, Frank; but not great. I'm disappointed that it's only a 1-year deal, but that's obviously a smart "business decision" by his agent, since the CB market this year is not drawing big bucks. The thinking on their end is that Talib, with a good full season as a Patriot, will be able to demand much more money next year. That's bad news, since it means that the Patriots could be over the barrel again next year for this position. 

          The signing of Adrian Wilson is similarly a good news - bad news deal. His talent is beyond question. He definitely upgrades a position of need for our team. But, once again, it's likely short term. He's 33. How many more years has he got left? Of course, I should add that Tavon Wilson looked pretty good, for a rookie, and he should be able to improve with Adrian as a tutor. 

          Still, in both cases, if we look at it one year at a time, as I'm sure BB does, both of these moves make our secondary look much stronger going into the 2013 season. That was my choice as the highest priority for the team during this off-season - strengthening their weak secondary. I'm concerned, of course, about the Dennard situation. This kid looked really good in his brief time on the field last season. If we have him available to play CB opposite Talib, with Wilson at SS, McCourty at FS, and, when needed, Arrington as the slot CB, I think we'll have a very solid secondary this year. But I'd still like to see another CB added before camp begins. 

          On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:29 AM, frankdanabrewster <frank.dana@...> wrote:
           
          One year deal...

          http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2013/03/16/report-aqib-talib-signs-a-one-year-deal-with-patriots/

          Good news, methinks!

          fdb




          --
          -- George


        • George Richman
          Your point makes sense, Ed. But I m working on my personal assumption that Talib has outgrown the behavioral problems, in the same way as Chris Carter, and
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 17, 2013
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            Your point makes sense, Ed. But I'm working on my personal assumption that Talib has outgrown the behavioral problems, in the same way as Chris Carter, and several others, have done. The hip injury history is certainly a concern, but one I'd be willing to risk for multiple years of his talent on the field at a 2013 contract price. As I said, I believe his agent did the right thing; but I'd still be happier if he was signed as a Patriot for 3-5 years. 

            I agree with the thoughts on Wilson as a "hybrid" in certain sets; but I'm betting he'll primarily serve as the starting SS. I would also expect to see him much more involved in the pass rush than any safety we've had in a very long time. He's good at it. 

            I do still want another "starting caliber" CB signed, as well as another WR, even if the Sanders move happens. (Although, as struggle to keep my rose colored glasses out of reach, I do think there's a good chance that Sanders could be about to enter his prime as a WR, with deep speed.) Unlike many, I do not see the departure of Danny Woodhead as a major loss. Vereen is a better talent, IMO. So, with the return of Bolden, I don't see any problem with our RB corps. 

            Patience is still the key word for those of us watching the 2013 team take shape. I won't be shouting either "We're a lock for the Super Bowl!", or "We'll be lucky to make the playoffs!" until I at least see the 53-man roster; and probably neither of those extremes even then. I do think that the secondary is much more solid than it was at the beginning of last season; and that alone makes me expect a better season. 

            On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Ed Bryant <edbryant36@...> wrote:
             

            George, is a one year deal for Talib so bad?  When the Patriots asked us to root for Randy Moss's team in 2007, everyone was sure he would be on his best behavior because he was on a one year deal. 

            In Talib's case, as for the "character" question, a one year deal favors the team.  As for his hip and other body parts, it's only a one year bet.  As for the money, the Patriots chose not to franchise Talib (or Volllmer), and the market price turned out to be a signifcant saving with Talib, and may well come out OK with Vollmer, another player whose health, not his talent, is the question.

            Back when the tag was still up in the air, I read at least one "metric" by which Talib, as a Patriot, was giving up a lot of yards per throw that came his way.  Now, as a fan of a team that scores 500 points, I loved how Talib refused to give up plus-20 catches to every Tom, Dick, and Harry as others in our secondary did, and I was happy with his play overall, although that first INT/TD certainly bought him the benefit of doubt with us as it would not with the coaches who break down every single play, but I think his work stands out.

            In Devin McCourty's tough second year, I was the only one I know protesting that the Patriots could not or would not roll help his way, and the fans mostly hung him out to dry, not noticing that Kyle Arrington's seven interceptions might have been a result of a scheme that gave him the safety help.  By my own measure, I have to give Talib '12 the nod over McCourty '11. 

            As for the deployment, I think Field Yates (I think it was Yates) is onto something wondering if Adrian Wilson won't finally be the elephant safety who functions as a linebacker, the hybrid job for which Tank Williams and Josh Barrett were hired, though neither produced worth a lick.   Assuming as I do that the Patriots are still good for 463 points on offense this year (82% of all stats are made up on the spot!), I think Arrington will be on the field more than half of the time on defense, and that five and a half DB's per snap will soon be the norm as the NFL morphs into Arena Ball. 

            Any way, there are always omens, and if Defending Champion Baltimore Ravens isn't an omen, then what are Walt Coleman and Fred Coleman for????

            I know George has given up being our general manager in this part of the off-season, but damn, this year, Jacob needs your calm hand on the tiller!!!





            From: George Richman <patswingr@...>
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 1:53 AM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Talib is returning...

             
            Definitely good, Frank; but not great. I'm disappointed that it's only a 1-year deal, but that's obviously a smart "business decision" by his agent, since the CB market this year is not drawing big bucks. The thinking on their end is that Talib, with a good full season as a Patriot, will be able to demand much more money next year. That's bad news, since it means that the Patriots could be over the barrel again next year for this position. 

            The signing of Adrian Wilson is similarly a good news - bad news deal. His talent is beyond question. He definitely upgrades a position of need for our team. But, once again, it's likely short term. He's 33. How many more years has he got left? Of course, I should add that Tavon Wilson looked pretty good, for a rookie, and he should be able to improve with Adrian as a tutor. 

            Still, in both cases, if we look at it one year at a time, as I'm sure BB does, both of these moves make our secondary look much stronger going into the 2013 season. That was my choice as the highest priority for the team during this off-season - strengthening their weak secondary. I'm concerned, of course, about the Dennard situation. This kid looked really good in his brief time on the field last season. If we have him available to play CB opposite Talib, with Wilson at SS, McCourty at FS, and, when needed, Arrington as the slot CB, I think we'll have a very solid secondary this year. But I'd still like to see another CB added before camp begins. 

            On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 12:29 AM, frankdanabrewster <frank.dana@...> wrote:



            --
            -- George





            --
            -- George
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