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Shocked, but not surprised...

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  • frankdanabrewster
    BB always seems to release one or two players that we aren t expecting. Who might be a shocking name to see on the outside looking in tomorrow. I don t say
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 4, 2009
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      BB always seems to release one or two players that we aren't expecting. Who might be a shocking name to see on the outside looking in tomorrow. I don't say 'surprising', because nothing short of Tom Brady or Gostkowski would surprise me from BB anymore.

      My 'shocking' names would be "Fred Astaire" Maroney, "All-thumbs" Watson, Jarvis Green (possible salary cap move, with so much young D-line depth), Joey Galloway (empty tank?), Shawn Springs (age and injuries).

      QB situation - I think I'm going against the conventional wisdom. Seems most people think they will make a move for a vet. I think they have their vet in Walter. I think he's better than people give him credit for. Was stuck in a lousy system and organization in Oakland. My guess is they stick with the 3 they have.

      Waiver wire - CB's and linebackers. I think they will be looking for help in those areas. I'm not sold on Lenon or Alexander on the inside. Crable has 'potential', but can't stay on the field. Bodden, Wilhite, and Butler are the only reliable CB's. I think we're are fine at safety (Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, and McGowan).

      Just random thoughts,
      fdb
    • frankdanabrewster
      Could we see a blockbuster trade before the day is out? I m not talking Smith for Feeley. That s small potatoes. I mean a name like Maroney, Watson, Morris, or
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 5, 2009
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        Could we see a blockbuster trade before the day is out? I'm not talking Smith for Feeley. That's small potatoes. I mean a name like Maroney, Watson, Morris, or Jarvis Green for a front line linebacker or corner. We're stocked with TE's and RB's, but are mighty thin at LB and CB.

        Just another random thought.
        fdb

        --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster" <frank.dana@...> wrote:
        >
        > BB always seems to release one or two players that we aren't expecting. Who might be a shocking name to see on the outside looking in tomorrow. I don't say 'surprising', because nothing short of Tom Brady or Gostkowski would surprise me from BB anymore.
        >
        > My 'shocking' names would be "Fred Astaire" Maroney, "All-thumbs" Watson, Jarvis Green (possible salary cap move, with so much young D-line depth), Joey Galloway (empty tank?), Shawn Springs (age and injuries).
        >
        > QB situation - I think I'm going against the conventional wisdom. Seems most people think they will make a move for a vet. I think they have their vet in Walter. I think he's better than people give him credit for. Was stuck in a lousy system and organization in Oakland. My guess is they stick with the 3 they have.
        >
        > Waiver wire - CB's and linebackers. I think they will be looking for help in those areas. I'm not sold on Lenon or Alexander on the inside. Crable has 'potential', but can't stay on the field. Bodden, Wilhite, and Butler are the only reliable CB's. I think we're are fine at safety (Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, and McGowan).
        >
        > Just random thoughts,
        > fdb
        >
      • RandyZ. Pierce
        ... From: frankdanabrewster To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Shocked, but not surprised...
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 7, 2009
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          ....oh...so it's *YOUR* fault! ;-)
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:25 AM
          Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Shocked, but not surprised...

           

          Could we see a blockbuster trade before the day is out? I'm not talking Smith for Feeley. That's small potatoes. I mean a name like Maroney, Watson, Morris, or Jarvis Green for a front line linebacker or corner. We're stocked with TE's and RB's, but are mighty thin at LB and CB.

          Just another random thought.
          fdb

          --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "frankdanabrewster" <frank.dana@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > BB always seems to release one or two players that we aren't expecting. Who might be a shocking name to see on the outside looking in tomorrow. I don't say 'surprising' , because nothing short of Tom Brady or Gostkowski would surprise me from BB anymore.
          >
          > My 'shocking' names would be "Fred Astaire" Maroney, "All-thumbs" Watson, Jarvis Green (possible salary cap move, with so much young D-line depth), Joey Galloway (empty tank?), Shawn Springs (age and injuries).
          >
          > QB situation - I think I'm going against the conventional wisdom. Seems most people think they will make a move for a vet. I think they have their vet in Walter. I think he's better than people give him credit for. Was stuck in a lousy system and organization in Oakland. My guess is they stick with the 3 they have.
          >
          > Waiver wire - CB's and linebackers. I think they will be looking for help in those areas. I'm not sold on Lenon or Alexander on the inside. Crable has 'potential', but can't stay on the field. Bodden, Wilhite, and Butler are the only reliable CB's. I think we're are fine at safety (Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, and McGowan).
          >
          > Just random thoughts,
          > fdb
          >



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        • Gary Whitten
          I m way less into this than many posters on this list but on the radio in the last week I heard mention that Goodell was anticipating a cap-free year and that
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 7, 2009
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            I'm way less into this than many posters on this list but on the radio in the last week I heard mention that Goodell was anticipating a cap-free year and that the owners wouldn't be looking to lock out.  Is this more disingenuousness along the lines of 'upper body injury' or is this a legit, if not preferred, situation?
          • frankdanabrewster
            I guess so, Randy. Except for having the wrong person, and the wrong return in trade. LOL! fdb
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 7, 2009
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              I guess so, Randy. Except for having the wrong person, and the wrong return in trade. LOL!

              fdb

              --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
              >
              > ....oh...so it's *YOUR* fault! ;-)
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: frankdanabrewster
              > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:25 AM
              > Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Shocked, but not surprised...
              >
              >
              > Could we see a blockbuster trade before the day is out? I'm not talking Smith for Feeley. That's small potatoes. I mean a name like Maroney, Watson, Morris, or Jarvis Green for a front line linebacker or corner. We're stocked with TE's and RB's, but are mighty thin at LB and CB.
              >
              > Just another random thought.
              > fdb
              >
              > --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "frankdanabrewster" <frank.dana@> wrote:
              > >
              > > BB always seems to release one or two players that we aren't expecting. Who might be a shocking name to see on the outside looking in tomorrow. I don't say 'surprising', because nothing short of Tom Brady or Gostkowski would surprise me from BB anymore.
              > >
              > > My 'shocking' names would be "Fred Astaire" Maroney, "All-thumbs" Watson, Jarvis Green (possible salary cap move, with so much young D-line depth), Joey Galloway (empty tank?), Shawn Springs (age and injuries).
              > >
              > > QB situation - I think I'm going against the conventional wisdom. Seems most people think they will make a move for a vet. I think they have their vet in Walter. I think he's better than people give him credit for. Was stuck in a lousy system and organization in Oakland. My guess is they stick with the 3 they have.
              > >
              > > Waiver wire - CB's and linebackers. I think they will be looking for help in those areas. I'm not sold on Lenon or Alexander on the inside. Crable has 'potential', but can't stay on the field. Bodden, Wilhite, and Butler are the only reliable CB's. I think we're are fine at safety (Merriweather, Sanders, Chung, and McGowan).
              > >
              > > Just random thoughts,
              > > fdb
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
              >
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              > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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              >
            • RandyZ. Pierce
              I haven t seen this question discussed and I have some thoughts on it though I m sure there are others who may enlighten us even further. First the simple
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 9, 2009
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                I haven't seen this question discussed and I have some thoughts on it though I'm sure there are others who may enlighten us even further.
                 
                First the simple answer: at present it seems the owners and players union will not have a collective bargaining agreement resolution done by this fall which is needed to avoid defaulting to the system in place for next year by current contract.  In that system there is no salary cap and players are denoted as restricted free agents for longer than they are in the present year's contract.  Thus the 2010 has a reasonably friendly owner deal which isn't ideal for either side but does give the owners a bit of bargaining leverage.  If the players can wait through 2011 then there is no salary cap and no leverage for the owners which is why the fear of a lock-out exists.  The NFL owners do not want the baseball scenario and speculatin is high that without a new collective bargaining agreement, a lock-out might occur to get such a contract.
                 
                Here's a brief little history of my perspective.  Prior commisioner and Players President (Tagliabue and Upshaw) worked out the last deal and it favorred the players a little mroe than the owners prefer as it made large strides in revenue sharing.  The catch was that it had a spring 2009 owners option to bail out of the deal which the owners did in March of this year.  In that owners option it set up the 2010 season with no salary cap but otherwise some procedures which favorred the owners regarding revenue sharing and free agency restriction.  The owners hope that gives them a year to renegoatiate a better collective bargaining agreement from their perspective.  Tags knew he was on the way out so he didn't cement the long term deal folks wanted and he gave in a little but had the silver parachute escape which helped him feed it to the owners.  Upshaw passing away last year meant things got a little more challenging for preparations to work out the new collective bargaining agreement.  It is likely that this will be a challenging and long negotiation which gets us to the  2011 season before a deal is likely.  The new deal must greatly control rookie salaries and guaranteed money if the owners are to ratify it since they've been too long burned by this.  The players will want more revenue sharing percentages and higher salary caps.  Ultimately the players union hired an outside gun rather than a football guy and he is making statements to be clear he's ready to fight Goodale very hard to get the players the deal he feels they should get. 
                 
                I greatly fear that we are playing in a league that doesn't have business rules in place for the future and yet teams must sign into the future.  This is costing the Patriots already and Seymour was likely just one step in that process.  Wilfork is being challenged by the  team's caution in big contracts into unknown financial rules ahead.  I would hate to see a lockout at any time and particularly while we are a top contending team.  My trust in Goodale is not particularly high given how I perceive his body of work thus far and as such I foresee a lock out is more likely than not in 2011.
                 
                Sad but concentrating on this year more than ever as a result,
                Zip
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:47 AM
                Subject: [patriotzip] Lockout v Uncapped Season

                 

                I'm way less into this than many posters on this list but on the radio in the last week I heard mention that Goodell was anticipating a cap-free year and that the owners wouldn't be looking to lock out.  Is this more disingenuousness along the lines of 'upper body injury' or is this a legit, if not preferred, situation?



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                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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              • Gary Whitten
                Thanks for the insight Randy, really fills in a lot of the picture for me. _____ From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 9, 2009
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                  Thanks for the insight Randy, really fills in a lot of the picture for me.


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                  Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:17 PM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Lockout v Uncapped Season

                  I haven't seen this question discussed and I have some thoughts on it though I'm sure there are others who may enlighten us even further.
                   
                  First the simple answer: at present it seems the owners and players union will not have a collective bargaining agreement resolution done by this fall which is needed to avoid defaulting to the system in place for next year by current contract.  In that system there is no salary cap and players are denoted as restricted free agents for longer than they are in the present year's contract.  Thus the 2010 has a reasonably friendly owner deal which isn't ideal for either side but does give the owners a bit of bargaining leverage.  If the players can wait through 2011 then there is no salary cap and no leverage for the owners which is why the fear of a lock-out exists.  The NFL owners do not want the baseball scenario and speculatin is high that without a new collective bargaining agreement, a lock-out might occur to get such a contract.
                   
                  Here's a brief little history of my perspective.  Prior commisioner and Players President (Tagliabue and Upshaw) worked out the last deal and it favorred the players a little mroe than the owners prefer as it made large strides in revenue sharing.  The catch was that it had a spring 2009 owners option to bail out of the deal which the owners did in March of this year.  In that owners option it set up the 2010 season with no salary cap but otherwise some procedures which favorred the owners regarding revenue sharing and free agency restriction.  The owners hope that gives them a year to renegoatiate a better collective bargaining agreement from their perspective.  Tags knew he was on the way out so he didn't cement the long term deal folks wanted and he gave in a little but had the silver parachute escape which helped him feed it to the owners.  Upshaw passing away last year meant things got a little more challenging for preparations to work out the new collective bargaining agreement.  It is likely that this will be a challenging and long negotiation which gets us to the  2011 season before a deal is likely.  The new deal must greatly control rookie salaries and guaranteed money if the owners are to ratify it since they've been too long burned by this.  The players will want more revenue sharing percentages and higher salary caps.  Ultimately the players union hired an outside gun rather than a football guy and he is making statements to be clear he's ready to fight Goodale very hard to get the players the deal he feels they should get. 
                   
                  I greatly fear that we are playing in a league that doesn't have business rules in place for the future and yet teams must sign into the future.  This is costing the Patriots already and Seymour was likely just one step in that process.  Wilfork is being challenged by the  team's caution in big contracts into unknown financial rules ahead.  I would hate to see a lockout at any time and particularly while we are a top contending team.  My trust in Goodale is not particularly high given how I perceive his body of work thus far and as such I foresee a lock out is more likely than not in 2011.
                   
                  Sad but concentrating on this year more than ever as a result,
                  Zip
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:47 AM
                  Subject: [patriotzip] Lockout v Uncapped Season

                   

                  I'm way less into this than many posters on this list but on the radio in the last week I heard mention that Goodell was anticipating a cap-free year and that the owners wouldn't be looking to lock out.  Is this more disingenuousness along the lines of 'upper body injury' or is this a legit, if not preferred, situation?



                  No virus found in this incoming message.
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                  Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00

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                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.78/2347 - Release Date: 09/09/09 06:53:00

                • George
                  Randy, your last sentence summed up my attitude perfectly. I can just skip right past all of the history and opposing positions; because, frankly, I m not only
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 9, 2009
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                    Randy, your last sentence summed up my attitude perfectly. I can just skip right past all of the history and opposing positions; because, frankly, I'm not only retired from business, I'm TIRED of business. I'm planning on leaving all that stuff outside my "entertainment circle" from now on. No more personal attachment to players, beyond their on-field contributions. No more philosophical attachment to ownership. Clearly, in nearly every case these days, both sides accept the business aspect of the NFL as their guiding light, come contract time. I'll always have my strong attachment to the Patriots franchise.  But, beyond that, I'm here for the game ... for as long as there is one.
                     
                    So, like you, with regard to the CBA, I'll just be ...
                     
                    "Sad but concentrating on this year more than ever as a result,"
                     

                    George


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