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RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

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  • George
    ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 2, 2008
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      ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
       

      George

       

       
       


      From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
      Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

      I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


      From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
      To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

      Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
       
      I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
       
       
      Go Pats!
      Zip
       
       
       

    • Mike Benson
      I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn t go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre s deal with the Jets one year or two?
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 3, 2008
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        I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


        From: George <patswingr@...>
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
        Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

        ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
         

        George

         

         

         


        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
        Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

        I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


        From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
        To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
        Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

        Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
         
        I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
         
         
        Go Pats!
        Zip
         
         
         


      • George
        ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel s new home. I m thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 3, 2008
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          ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel's new home. I'm thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since it's a much better team at all other positions. Although, Detroit is LOADED for the Draft this year; and they have a top WR (Calvin Johnson) and RB (Kevin Smith) to build an offense around. They just need to fix the OL, and get a decent QB. (Their D is another story!) Kansas City could also use him; and I wouldn't rule out Washington, although they seem committed to grow with their mediocre guy.
           
          ***** In any case, there are certainly at least a few options outside of our Division. I hope he takes one of them.
           

          George

           

           
           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
          Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:32 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

          I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


          From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
          Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

          ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
           

          George

           

           

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

          I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


          From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

          Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
           
          I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
           
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
           
           
           


        • Susan Moore
          George, Are you certain that he has to go? I mean, can t we keep him OR will it be against what he d want to do now...I mean, he would want to start now
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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            George,
            Are you certain that he has to go? I mean, can't we keep him OR will it be against what he'd want to do now...I mean, he would want to start now instead of being the backup?
            Seems a shame, doesn't it? He comes into his own (or is on the way) and then he has to go.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: George
            Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:10 PM
            Subject: RE: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel's new home. I'm thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since it's a much better team at all other positions. Although, Detroit is LOADED for the Draft this year; and they have a top WR (Calvin Johnson) and RB (Kevin Smith) to build an offense around. They just need to fix the OL, and get a decent QB. (Their D is another story!) Kansas City could also use him; and I wouldn't rule out Washington, although they seem committed to grow with their mediocre guy.
             
            ***** In any case, there are certainly at least a few options outside of our Division. I hope he takes one of them.
             

            George

             

             
             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
            Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:32 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


            From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
            Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
             

            George

             

             

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
            Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


            From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
             
            I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
             
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             
             
             


          • RandyZ. Pierce
            There s still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes. That
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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              There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
               
              No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
            • Susan Moore
              That s an interesting stat, Randy--that no 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs. You d hope that is true, but to see it actually written down is encouraging.
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                That's an interesting stat, Randy--that no 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs. You'd hope that is true, but to see it actually written down is encouraging.
                I have faith that our season is FAR from over and I think that it is definitely within Cassel's reach to do that. Sometimes you just have to have bad days or games or whatever to go forward and I think that's what we are going to do.
                The ESPN idiots already have the Super Bowl as between the Titans and the Giants, but I'm hoping that we prove otherwise.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:32 AM
                Subject: Re: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
                 
                No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
                 
                Go Pats!
                Zip

              • George
                ***** Of course, I can t make a firm statement about this, without knowing who would replace McDaniel. However, my initial reaction is: Goodbye, Josh. Don t
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                  ***** Of course, I can't make a firm statement about this, without knowing who would replace McDaniel. However, my initial reaction is: "Goodbye, Josh. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." As I've said consistently, I am not a fan of his work. I think Brady taught him more than he taught Brady; and that Brady was far more responsible for running the Patriots in-game offense than was McDaniel. I've been consistently disappointed with his game plans and play calling in nearly every game this season.
                   

                  George

                   

                   
                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                  Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:33 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
                   
                  No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
                   
                  Go Pats!
                  Zip

                • kmacalp@aol.com
                  There s still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                    <Randy> There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes. That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!

                    No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...

                    Go Pats!
                    Zip
                     
                    <Scott> I think that stat's incorrect, Randy. I believe the 1985 Broncos were 11-5 and missed the playoffs. There were only three divisions in each conference back then with two Wild Cards. The Patriots and Jets also finished 11-5 that year and won the two wild card spots, leaving the Broncos out of the playoffs. This sparked a little controversy because the Cleveland Browns were 8-8, but made the playoffs as a division winner while an 11-5 team sat at home. The Broncos ended up appearing in 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls though.
                     
                    Scott Sheaffer



                  • RandyZ. Pierce
                    Scott, Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 5, 2008
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                      Scott,
                       
                      Thanks for that correction.  I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it.  That year was famous for not having a January 26.  Sunday, January 26, 1986 simply didn't exist...that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
                       
                      Berry the Bears,
                      Zip
                    • kmacalp@aol.com
                      Scott, Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 6, 2008
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                        Scott,

                        Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous for not having a January 26. Sunday, January 26, 1986 simply didn't exist...that' s my story and I'm sticking with it.

                        Berry the Bears,
                        Zip
                         
                         
                        Randy,
                         
                        No problem. Still, it is rare for a team with that many wins to miss out. We're still alive. On a hopeful note, we should keep something in mind about our 7-5 record.
                         
                        In 1985 we started 7-5 and went to the Super Bowl.
                         
                        In 2001 we started 7-5 and won the Super Bowl.
                         
                        For our first three Super Bowl trips, 85, 96, and 01, we posted 11-5 records. In fact, before Belichick and Brady, the best 16 game record in Patriots's history was 11-5. (Back in the 14 game days, we went 11-3.)
                         
                        So it's interesting to see all these people pronouncing doom when we've got the same record we had for two Super Bowl trips. But, hey, if we miss the playoffs, they can pat themselves on the back for their steadfast refusal to ever stop doubting. ; )
                         
                        Scott Sheaffer



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