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Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

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  • Mike Benson
    I, too, find you re comments perceptive and funny, John. However, you can trust me when I say that the people on this list are genuinely nice, well-intentioned
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      I, too, find you're comments perceptive and funny, John. However, you can trust me when I say that the people on this list are genuinely nice, well-intentioned folks for the most part. Just a little thin-skinned now and then. I've run into my share of it too. I was once found guilty of admiring the Tyree catch as an exceptional athletic feat. Thought I'd be skinned alive.

      Personally, I have no problem with saying "we suck" after a game as ugly as yesterday simply because we did. However, I think it would be appreciated if whoever it is who points out the obvious always gave us a little more insight than just "we suck." In this case, I think Larry DID give us a short but painful litany explaining why. So I don't think he should be demonized. I think of him as one of many fans at Gillette yesterday who leaped to their feet and yelled "You suck!" when Moss dropped an easy TD pass. Or did likewise for any of the other mishaps Larry mentioned.


      From: jtravers001 <jtravers001@...>
      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 1:35:21 PM
      Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

      Ha! Your comments made me blow Diet Coke out my nose, John. For sure,
      we sucked yesterday. Or should I say "we weren't quite as good as we
      often are" -- using your more politically correct assessment. I agree,
      why not just call a spade a spade and move on. So what if we sucked?
      Some Sundays are like that. Others are not. No need to send in the PC
      police here. At least, not in my humble opinion.


      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, John Knowles <johnknowles1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Actually, Larry, I liked your original comments better. I disagree
      with Randy on this one. When you suck, you suck. Must we really put
      lipstick on a pig and engage in some form of Orwellian doublethink to
      avoid the most obvious performance assessment? My, oh, my --
      NEGATIVITY! -- why that's just NOT politically correct, is it? Let's
      all pretend that everything is hunky dory instead. Phrases like "we
      suck" should be changed to "we weren't quite as good as we often are."
      Furthermore, people who use phrases like "we suck" should be banished
      to re-education camps immediately. Then the angels will descend and
      our world will become a lovely place again.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Larry Lawrence <melarry001@...>
      > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 1, 2008 11:37:10 AM
      > Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Tough Game for Certain
      >
      >
      > Okay, here are my comments revised:
      >
      > Cassel throws behind his receivers all day long.
      >
      > Anyone still think  he'll be taking us to the Super Bowl?
      >
      > Moss drops a TD alone in the end  zone.
      >
      > Matt Light phoned it in.
      >
      > 13  unanswered points.
      >
      > The Jets lose and stay a game ahead.
      >
      > We're  tied with Miami.
      >
      > But we don't suck. We're going to the Super Bowl.
      >
      > Is everybody happy?
      >
      > --- On Mon, 12/1/08, RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:
      >
      > From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
      > Subject: [patriotzip] Tough Game for Certain
      > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
      > Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 3:42 PM
      >
      >
      > I had higher expectations for the team in that game
      > than their performance and I have similarly higher expectations for
      what makes
      > worthwhile discussion on this list.  I speak specifically of the
      message
      > attached below as there was some quality discussion on here from
      many folks who
      > comprise the intent of this list.  I absolutely concur that Cassel
      threw
      > the ball behind folks a bit more than usual, that Moss drpped way
      too many
      > passes that would have made a difference and he wasn't the only one
      on the team
      > dropping balls as Gaffney and Watson each added a key mishandling as
      well. 

      > All of these can be expressed much more reasonably
      > for this list than the choices made in this message below and I
      expect we will
      > manage that in the future.  There are message boards which more fully
      > welcome simple 'we suck' analysis' and this board isn't intended for
      it. 
      > We had it during my week away a bit and it won't last long here going
      > forward.

      > The team is certainly not achieving what is within
      > their reach though they have come a long way and are a fair bit
      closer to the
      > goals than many years of this franchise and beyond many expectations
      given the
      > changes in this season.  The team lost in all facets of the game with
      > Special teams and offensive turnovers being the largest culprits
      from my
      > vantage.  Light certainly deserved a fair bit of discredit for being
      > overmatched by Harrison and the coaching staff for not getting a
      chip in there
      > when that was going so awry multiple times.

      > Harrison was actually carted off the field at the
      > end of the first half and made a nice recovery for himself with the
      solid play
      > for which he's been known for the last two seasons.  Talented Steeler
      > players put it to us in the second half and we didn't rise up to the
      challenge
      > at all.  While there are many moments of would have/could
      have/should have
      > in this one, the only reality positive I noted is that in that
      woeful third
      > quarter our defense after giving up a long TD drive got hit with three
      > consecutive turnovers and very short fields.  Two of those three
      times they
      > did ultimately hold them to field goals despite the lousy position
      in which they
      > were placed.  That said they still had a less than quality day even
      noting
      > they had a respectable first half and set up our offense with the first
      > touchdown that had so much hope infused into the game.

      > Destiny is now out of our hands and we must win out
      > to have any reasonable shot at playoffs but we remain on that outer
      edge with
      > three of our four remaining games being fairly soft...which doesn't
      mean
      > guaranteed wins by any means.  We need all four...

      > Go Pats!
      > Zip
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: melarry001
      > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
      > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:41  AM
      > Subject: [patriotzip] Whatta sucky, sucky  game.
      >
      > Cassel throws behind his receivers all day long.
      >
      > Anyone still think  he'll be taking us to the Super Bowl?
      >
      > Moss drops a TD alone in the end  zone. What an ass.
      >
      > Matt Light phoned it in. He blows.
      >
      > 13  unanswered points.
      >
      > The Jets lose and stay a game ahead.
      >
      > We're  tied with Miami.
      >
      > We suck. We suck. We suck.
      >
      >
      > ________________________________

      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG -  http://www.avg. com
      > Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.12/1822 -  Release Date:
      12/1/2008 8:23 AM
      >



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    • RandyZ. Pierce
      Part of the point in the notion of we suck is this: we don t actually suck. At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck. We may have sucked
      Message 2 of 23 , Dec 2, 2008
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        Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
         
        I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
         
         
        Go Pats!
        Zip
         
         
         
      • Mike Benson
        I agree with you, Randy, in that we suck comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head-against-the-wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration.
        Message 3 of 23 , Dec 2, 2008
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          I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head-against-the-wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


          From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@...>
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

          Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
           
          I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
           
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
           
           
           

        • George
          ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we
          Message 4 of 23 , Dec 2, 2008
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            ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
             

            George

             

             
             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
            Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


            From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

            Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
             
            I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
             
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             
             
             

          • Mike Benson
            I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn t go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre s deal with the Jets one year or two?
            Message 5 of 23 , Dec 3, 2008
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              I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


              From: George <patswingr@...>
              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
              Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

              ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
               

              George

               

               

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
              Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

              I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


              From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

              Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
               
              I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
               
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
               
               
               


            • George
              ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel s new home. I m thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since
              Message 6 of 23 , Dec 3, 2008
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                ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel's new home. I'm thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since it's a much better team at all other positions. Although, Detroit is LOADED for the Draft this year; and they have a top WR (Calvin Johnson) and RB (Kevin Smith) to build an offense around. They just need to fix the OL, and get a decent QB. (Their D is another story!) Kansas City could also use him; and I wouldn't rule out Washington, although they seem committed to grow with their mediocre guy.
                 
                ***** In any case, there are certainly at least a few options outside of our Division. I hope he takes one of them.
                 

                George

                 

                 
                 


                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
                Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:32 AM
                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


                From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
                Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
                 

                George

                 

                 

                 


                From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
                Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


                From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
                Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
                 
                I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
                 
                 
                Go Pats!
                Zip
                 
                 
                 


              • Susan Moore
                George, Are you certain that he has to go? I mean, can t we keep him OR will it be against what he d want to do now...I mean, he would want to start now
                Message 7 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                  George,
                  Are you certain that he has to go? I mean, can't we keep him OR will it be against what he'd want to do now...I mean, he would want to start now instead of being the backup?
                  Seems a shame, doesn't it? He comes into his own (or is on the way) and then he has to go.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: George
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 7:10 PM
                  Subject: RE: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  ***** My thoughts, exactly, with regard to Cassel's new home. I'm thinking maybe Detroit, or possibly even Tampa Bay. The latter would be good for him, since it's a much better team at all other positions. Although, Detroit is LOADED for the Draft this year; and they have a top WR (Calvin Johnson) and RB (Kevin Smith) to build an offense around. They just need to fix the OL, and get a decent QB. (Their D is another story!) Kansas City could also use him; and I wouldn't rule out Washington, although they seem committed to grow with their mediocre guy.
                   
                  ***** In any case, there are certainly at least a few options outside of our Division. I hope he takes one of them.
                   

                  George

                   

                   
                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
                  Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:32 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  I did think of that, George. And money is always nice. I just hope Cassel doesn't go to the Jets or Buffalo. Is Favre's deal with the Jets one year or two? Anybody know?


                  From: George <patswingr@gmail. com>
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 10:50:32 PM
                  Subject: RE: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  ***** There is one slim bright note in the likely departure of Cassel, Mike. He will, almost certainly, become a starter for another team; and, as such, we should get a decent compensation pick for him in 2010 (as we should for Samuel this year).
                   

                  George

                   

                   

                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mike Benson
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:53 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  I agree with you, Randy, in that "we suck" comments are usually born out of a bang-your-head- against-the- wall level of frustration. Deep, deep frustration. We're not fans who are used to losing. In fact, it's been a pretty long while since we've had a season like this and it's pretty darn hard to float back down to earth and play like mere mortals again. Furthering this frustration, at least for me, is that I think that all the great progress Cassel has made this season will be all for naught. Because he'll be a free agent next season and will no longer settle for a number 2 slot. Unfortunately, we're going to have to part company with him whatever this season brings.


                  From: RandyZ. Pierce <alaric02@sprynet. com>
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:29:11 PM
                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                  Part of the point in the notion of 'we suck' is this:  we don't actually suck.  At 7-5 the facts stand clear that we do not suck.  We may have 'sucked' yesterday but that doesn't validate the generality.  Similarly, Moss droped a TD - he's an ass isn't connecting.  He's not an ass because he dropped the pass - it's frustrating and whether it's concentration, talent or weather intolerance the fact is whether Moss' behaviour qualifies him for 'assness' is separate from the pass dropping.  This tends to make these statements inaccurate and for me as a fan the inaccurate and base insulting of 'my' team is something that frustrates me.  In the days of open message boards this list would have an impressive amount of what were likely immature at best folks just making degrading commentary.  This drives away the folks who want to just talk about the football and whether harsh, concise or verbose - that's what this list hopes to achieve and sustain.
                   
                  I was frustrated at Moss, Gaffney, Watson, Cassel, Dealtha and a host of others at various times as well.  Our second half performance was ...well summed up with sucky.  We'd show some signs of life and then self destruct with some of that belonging to the talent of the Steelers and some being our own ineptitude on this day. 
                   
                   
                  Go Pats!
                  Zip
                   
                   
                   


                • RandyZ. Pierce
                  There s still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes. That
                  Message 8 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                    There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
                     
                    No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
                     
                    Go Pats!
                    Zip
                  • Susan Moore
                    That s an interesting stat, Randy--that no 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs. You d hope that is true, but to see it actually written down is encouraging.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      That's an interesting stat, Randy--that no 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs. You'd hope that is true, but to see it actually written down is encouraging.
                      I have faith that our season is FAR from over and I think that it is definitely within Cassel's reach to do that. Sometimes you just have to have bad days or games or whatever to go forward and I think that's what we are going to do.
                      The ESPN idiots already have the Super Bowl as between the Titans and the Giants, but I'm hoping that we prove otherwise.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:32 AM
                      Subject: Re: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                      There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
                       
                      No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
                       
                      Go Pats!
                      Zip

                    • George
                      ***** Of course, I can t make a firm statement about this, without knowing who would replace McDaniel. However, my initial reaction is: Goodbye, Josh. Don t
                      Message 10 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                        ***** Of course, I can't make a firm statement about this, without knowing who would replace McDaniel. However, my initial reaction is: "Goodbye, Josh. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out." As I've said consistently, I am not a fan of his work. I think Brady taught him more than he taught Brady; and that Brady was far more responsible for running the Patriots in-game offense than was McDaniel. I've been consistently disappointed with his game plans and play calling in nearly every game this season.
                         

                        George

                         

                         
                         


                        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                        Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 1:33 AM
                        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: Re: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Tough Game for Certain

                        There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.  That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!
                         
                        No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...
                         
                        Go Pats!
                        Zip

                      • kmacalp@aol.com
                        There s still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes.
                        Message 11 of 23 , Dec 4, 2008
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                          <Randy> There's still talk of Josh McDaniels heading out to a coaching opportunity and he may in fact be itnerested in taking Matt with him wherever he goes. That would require four more respectable games by Cassel of course...and that's something I think most of us hope takes place!

                          No 11-5 team has ever missed the playoffs...

                          Go Pats!
                          Zip
                           
                          <Scott> I think that stat's incorrect, Randy. I believe the 1985 Broncos were 11-5 and missed the playoffs. There were only three divisions in each conference back then with two Wild Cards. The Patriots and Jets also finished 11-5 that year and won the two wild card spots, leaving the Broncos out of the playoffs. This sparked a little controversy because the Cleveland Browns were 8-8, but made the playoffs as a division winner while an 11-5 team sat at home. The Broncos ended up appearing in 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls though.
                           
                          Scott Sheaffer



                        • RandyZ. Pierce
                          Scott, Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous
                          Message 12 of 23 , Dec 5, 2008
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                            Scott,
                             
                            Thanks for that correction.  I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it.  That year was famous for not having a January 26.  Sunday, January 26, 1986 simply didn't exist...that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
                             
                            Berry the Bears,
                            Zip
                          • kmacalp@aol.com
                            Scott, Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous
                            Message 13 of 23 , Dec 6, 2008
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                              Scott,

                              Thanks for that correction. I remember that season but not that detail very clearly and joined the reports I heard missing it. That year was famous for not having a January 26. Sunday, January 26, 1986 simply didn't exist...that' s my story and I'm sticking with it.

                              Berry the Bears,
                              Zip
                               
                               
                              Randy,
                               
                              No problem. Still, it is rare for a team with that many wins to miss out. We're still alive. On a hopeful note, we should keep something in mind about our 7-5 record.
                               
                              In 1985 we started 7-5 and went to the Super Bowl.
                               
                              In 2001 we started 7-5 and won the Super Bowl.
                               
                              For our first three Super Bowl trips, 85, 96, and 01, we posted 11-5 records. In fact, before Belichick and Brady, the best 16 game record in Patriots's history was 11-5. (Back in the 14 game days, we went 11-3.)
                               
                              So it's interesting to see all these people pronouncing doom when we've got the same record we had for two Super Bowl trips. But, hey, if we miss the playoffs, they can pat themselves on the back for their steadfast refusal to ever stop doubting. ; )
                               
                              Scott Sheaffer



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