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Re:Pats Undrafted Free Agents

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  • kmacalp@aol.com
    LB Gary Guyton, Georgia Tech (Boston Globe) 4.47- 40 (1st among LBs); 36.5 VJ (1st among LBs); 10 6 BJ (tied-1st among LBs); 7.07 3 Cone; 15 reps
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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      <Mark> LB Gary Guyton, Georgia Tech (Boston Globe)
      4.47- 40 (1st among LBs); 36.5 VJ (1st among LBs); 10"6'' BJ (tied-1st among LBs); 7.07 3 Cone; 15 reps @225 #1 priority UDFA signing by the Patriots staff. More an athlete than football player. Moved to weakside LB as a senior and flourished. You can’t coach speed!
       
      <Scott> There seems to be some bad info out about Guyton. I read analysis which questioned his athleticism and described his 40 time as pedestrian. What???? The NFL combine site confirms what Mike Reiss reported in his article. This guy was the fastest backer at the combine. How's that pedestrian? First in the 40, 1st in the vertical jump, 1st in the broad jump, and highly ranked in the 60 yard shuttle and three cone drill. The only question in the measurables is his strength. The top linebacker did 29 reps compared to Guyton's 15. Yet elsewhere, I've heard that Guyton is a good performer in the weight room. The same analysis that questioned Guyton's athleticism and described his 40 time as pedestrian also questioned his instincts for linebacker. Hopefully, the analysis is just as wrong on that as it is about his speed. If so, we might have a great find here. With a 4.4 40, I wonder about turning the guy into a monster safety. Staying at linebacker though, some people feel that Guyton can add another 10 pounds without losing speed.
       
      Scott Sheaffer 




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    • kmacalp@aol.com
      LB Vince Redd, Liberty (Boston Globe) 6’ 6” 265 4.56 (Pro Day) OLB Transferred from Virginia. Failed a drug test which cost him an entire year.
      Message 2 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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        <Mark> LB Vince Redd, Liberty (Boston Globe)
        6’ 6” 265 4.56 (Pro Day) OLB Transferred from Virginia. Failed a drug test which cost him an entire year. Needs weight room work lifting only 13 reps @ 225. Weigh 280 at Virginia but couldn’t crack the lineup at DE. 6.5 sacks as a linebacker for Liberty this past season.
        <Scott> This guy's pro day 40 would have made him the 4th fastest linebacker at the combine behind Jerod Mayo who ranked 3rd with a 4.54. (Hmmm . . . we now have the 1st and 3rd fastest linebackers from the combine along with Shawn Crable who would have been 6th if he had been listed among linebackers instead of defensive lineman (where he finished ahead of Gholston). I'm seeing a theme here. If all these guys can play NFL caliber football . . .
         
        The problem is that Redd managed even few reps than Guyton in the bench press.
         
        Scott




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      • George
        ***** One thing I d question is that statement that he s More of an athlete than football player. I find it hard to believe that BB and Pioli would sign a
        Message 3 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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          ***** One thing I'd question is that statement that he's "More of an athlete than football player." I find it hard to believe that BB and Pioli would sign a guy, even as a UDFA, that they didn't believe was, first and foremost, a "football player". With my usual caveat (I have not seen him play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could be a great candidate for STs on coverage teams. Speed, and leaping ability would indicate that he get downfield in a hurry. If he's a good open field tackler, he may be the guy to replace Izzo, either now, or after a year on the PS.
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
          Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:13 PM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [patriotzip] Re:Pats Undrafted Free Agents

          <Mark> LB Gary Guyton, Georgia Tech (Boston Globe)
          4.47- 40 (1st among LBs); 36.5 VJ (1st among LBs); 10"6'' BJ (tied-1st among LBs); 7.07 3 Cone; 15 reps @225 #1 priority UDFA signing by the Patriots staff. More an athlete than football player. Moved to weakside LB as a senior and flourished. You can’t coach speed!
           
          <Scott> There seems to be some bad info out about Guyton. I read analysis which questioned his athleticism and described his 40 time as pedestrian. What???? The NFL combine site confirms what Mike Reiss reported in his article. This guy was the fastest backer at the combine. How's that pedestrian? First in the 40, 1st in the vertical jump, 1st in the broad jump, and highly ranked in the 60 yard shuttle and three cone drill. The only question in the measurables is his strength. The top linebacker did 29 reps compared to Guyton's 15. Yet elsewhere, I've heard that Guyton is a good performer in the weight room. The same analysis that questioned Guyton's athleticism and described his 40 time as pedestrian also questioned his instincts for linebacker. Hopefully, the analysis is just as wrong on that as it is about his speed. If so, we might have a great find here. With a 4.4 40, I wonder about turning the guy into a monster safety. Staying at linebacker though, some people feel that Guyton can add another 10 pounds without losing speed.
           
          Scott Sheaffer 




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        • George
          ***** The strength issue doesn t bother me much. Working with an NFL caliber trainer can cure that in a hurry, as long as the player has the determination to
          Message 4 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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            ***** The strength issue doesn't bother me much. Working with an NFL caliber trainer can cure that in a hurry, as long as the player has the determination to work hard at it.
             
            ***** Speed, however, is far less liable to be significantly increased. I know that there are "speed coaches" who have helped players improve. But even they can't turn a slow guy into a fast guy. These 3 new Patriots rookies have the kind of speed I'd love to see on this team. But, as you said, Scott, we have to see if they can play at this level. Speed is great. But it, alone, will not earn anybody a spot on any NFL team.
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 4:28 PM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [patriotzip] Re:Pats Undrafted Free Agents

            <Mark> LB Vince Redd, Liberty (Boston Globe)
            6’ 6” 265 4.56 (Pro Day) OLB Transferred from Virginia. Failed a drug test which cost him an entire year. Needs weight room work lifting only 13 reps @ 225. Weigh 280 at Virginia but couldn’t crack the lineup at DE. 6.5 sacks as a linebacker for Liberty this past season.
            <Scott> This guy's pro day 40 would have made him the 4th fastest linebacker at the combine behind Jerod Mayo who ranked 3rd with a 4.54. (Hmmm . . . we now have the 1st and 3rd fastest linebackers from the combine along with Shawn Crable who would have been 6th if he had been listed among linebackers instead of defensive lineman (where he finished ahead of Gholston). I'm seeing a theme here. If all these guys can play NFL caliber football . . .
             
            The problem is that Redd managed even few reps than Guyton in the bench press.
             
            Scott




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          • kmacalp@aol.com
            With my usual caveat (I have not seen him play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could be a great candidate for STs on
            Message 5 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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              <George> With my usual caveat (I have not seen him
              play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could
              be a great candidate for STs on coverage teams. Speed, and leaping ability
              would indicate that he get downfield in a hurry. If he's a good open field
              tackler, he may be the guy to replace Izzo, either now, or after a year on
              the PS.
              <Scott> Actually there's a great highlight of Guyton playing special teams on youtube. This isn't on the coverage team though, it's on the return team, and no, he's not returning the ball. Check out the block Guyton, number 58, delivers near the 40 just as a tackler was closing on the return man, number 4.
               
               
               
              Scott Sheaffer




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            • George
              ***** CRUNCH! Number 4 got ... JACKED UP! by Guyton. Now THAT is STs play! Yeah, I think this kid has a solid shot to make the team this year, if he brings
              Message 6 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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                ***** CRUNCH! Number 4 got ... 'JACKED UP!" by Guyton. Now THAT is STs play! Yeah, I think this kid has a solid shot to make the team this year, if he brings that kind of intensity to STs.
                 
                ***** Of course, I only want players to make it if they have outstanding ability. That said, how great would it be for the future of this team if Mayo, Crable, Ruud, and Guyton are all good enough to make the team? Set for years at LB, if they're good enough to make that happen.
                 

                George
                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                 


                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
                Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:03 AM
                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                <George> With my usual caveat (I have not seen him
                play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could
                be a great candidate for STs on coverage teams. Speed, and leaping ability
                would indicate that he get downfield in a hurry. If he's a good open field
                tackler, he may be the guy to replace Izzo, either now, or after a year on
                the PS.
                <Scott> Actually there's a great highlight of Guyton playing special teams on youtube. This isn't on the coverage team though, it's on the return team, and no, he's not returning the ball. Check out the block Guyton, number 58, delivers near the 40 just as a tackler was closing on the return man, number 4.
                 
                 
                 
                Scott Sheaffer




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              • George
                ***** OOPS! I forgot to add an important Thank you! to my note, Scott. Great video clip. Thanks for posting it! George An imperfect fan of the imperfect
                Message 7 of 18 , May 1, 2008
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                  ***** OOPS! I forgot to add an important "Thank you!" to my note, Scott. Great video clip. Thanks for posting it!
                   

                  George
                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                   


                  From: George [mailto:patswingr@...]
                  Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:37 AM
                  To: 'patriotzip@yahoogroups.com'
                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                  ***** CRUNCH! Number 4 got ... 'JACKED UP!" by Guyton. Now THAT is STs play! Yeah, I think this kid has a solid shot to make the team this year, if he brings that kind of intensity to STs.
                   
                  ***** Of course, I only want players to make it if they have outstanding ability. That said, how great would it be for the future of this team if Mayo, Crable, Ruud, and Guyton are all good enough to make the team? Set for years at LB, if they're good enough to make that happen.
                   

                  George
                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
                  Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:03 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                  <George> With my usual caveat (I have not seen him
                  play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could
                  be a great candidate for STs on coverage teams. Speed, and leaping ability
                  would indicate that he get downfield in a hurry. If he's a good open field
                  tackler, he may be the guy to replace Izzo, either now, or after a year on
                  the PS.
                  <Scott> Actually there's a great highlight of Guyton playing special teams on youtube. This isn't on the coverage team though, it's on the return team, and no, he's not returning the ball. Check out the block Guyton, number 58, delivers near the 40 just as a tackler was closing on the return man, number 4.
                   
                   
                   
                  Scott Sheaffer




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                • RandyZ. Pierce
                  C mon, how can a hard working, over-achieving linebacker ever become anything on this team... (54 Sarcasm off) FTFT! Thanks for sharing that clip. I heard it
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                    C'mon, how can a hard working, over-achieving linebacker ever become anything on this team...
                     
                    (54 Sarcasm off)
                     
                    FTFT!
                     
                    Thanks for sharing that clip.  I heard it say he was a back-up linebacker - what year was that block?  As a back-up in college that does make his work process harder.  One thing I love and do agree with folks on here is that we seem to have also drafted speed - the hardest thing to 'coach.'  Strength can be done with the nutrition experts and strength/conditioning expertise of our system and facility.  Speed can only be enhanced so much.  Ty Law had great success learning to increase his speed with Coach Kersey (I think) in the sprinting program.  Speaking of Law - didn't we hear a deal immenent before the draft...
                     
                    Go Pats!
                    Zip
                  • George
                    ***** Right, Randy. Mike Vrabel was only a STs guy with the Steelers! George An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! _____ From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                      ***** Right, Randy. Mike Vrabel was only a STs guy with the Steelers!
                       

                      George
                      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                       


                      From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                      Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 4:50 PM
                      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                      C'mon, how can a hard working, over-achieving linebacker ever become anything on this team...
                       
                      (54 Sarcasm off)
                       
                      FTFT!
                       
                      Thanks for sharing that clip.  I heard it say he was a back-up linebacker - what year was that block?  As a back-up in college that does make his work process harder.  One thing I love and do agree with folks on here is that we seem to have also drafted speed - the hardest thing to 'coach.'  Strength can be done with the nutrition experts and strength/conditioni ng expertise of our system and facility.  Speed can only be enhanced so much.  Ty Law had great success learning to increase his speed with Coach Kersey (I think) in the sprinting program.  Speaking of Law - didn't we hear a deal immenent before the draft...
                       
                      Go Pats!
                      Zip

                    • RandyZ. Pierce
                      Special teams guy with a Pro Franchise versus special teams at a collegiate program... think that might make a little difference George? Don t get me wrong,
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                        Special teams guy with a Pro Franchise versus special teams at a collegiate program... think that might make a little difference George?
                         
                         
                        Don't get me wrong, Guyton was selected by a braintrust which I...oddly...trust.  He's got some fine credentials amongst the details but I am curious why he was a back-up player for the college program.
                         
                        As for Vrabel, he was playing in a playoff game with the game on the line in 1998.  I know because he swatted the ball out of Drew's hand in a strip sack that ended our playoff run.
                         
                        Go Pats!
                        Zip
                      • George
                        ***** Yeah, yeah, I know it s a huge jump from NCAA to NFL, Randy. I was basing my comments upon the intensity displayed by Guyton on that particular play that
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                          ***** Yeah, yeah, I know it's a huge jump from NCAA to NFL, Randy. I was basing my comments upon the intensity displayed by Guyton on that particular play that Scott linked us to. That was one hell of a hit! As you said, he was selected by our well proven brain trust; so I suspect that they had seen more such hits and intensity from Guyton on other plays. In any case, since he's a LB, and I have an acknowledged man crush on all LBs, he's my guy from among all the UDFAs this season.
                           
                          ***** Vrabel did play some as a scrimmage LB for the Steelers. But he was primarily a STs guy, and backup LB. I remember thinking and, I believe, writing that he would be a great addition to our STs when we signed him. I did not expect him to deliver the outstanding play he has given us on the scrimmage defense. I place him in the top 5 of the FA acquisitions that BB and Pioli have made. I'd have to think a while as to the order, but the others in my top 5 FAs would be: Rodney Harrison, Adalius Thomas, Bobby Hamilton, and Corey Dillon. Of course, this list could be fairly quickly and easily expanded to a top ten; and, since it just came off the top of my head, is also subject to revision when somebody reminds me of an egregious oversight on my part. :-)
                           

                          George
                          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                        • Mike Benson
                          Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he just pushed the guy out of bounds to me. Sorry I can t be more enthusiastic. --- On Fri, 5/2/08,
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                            Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he just pushed the guy out of bounds to me. Sorry I can't be more enthusiastic.

                            --- On Fri, 5/2/08, George <patswingr@...> wrote:
                            From: George <patswingr@...>
                            Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents
                            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, May 2, 2008, 1:37 AM

                            ***** CRUNCH! Number 4 got ... 'JACKED UP!" by Guyton. Now THAT is STs play! Yeah, I think this kid has a solid shot to make the team this year, if he brings that kind of intensity to STs.
                             
                            ***** Of course, I only want players to make it if they have outstanding ability. That said, how great would it be for the future of this team if Mayo, Crable, Ruud, and Guyton are all good enough to make the team? Set for years at LB, if they're good enough to make that happen.
                             

                            George
                            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                             


                            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@aol. com
                            Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:03 AM
                            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                            Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                            <George> With my usual caveat (I have not seen him
                            play), the information I read about this kid indicates to me that he could
                            be a great candidate for STs on coverage teams. Speed, and leaping ability
                            would indicate that he get downfield in a hurry. If he's a good open field
                            tackler, he may be the guy to replace Izzo, either now, or after a year on
                            the PS.
                            <Scott> Actually there's a great highlight of Guyton playing special teams on youtube. This isn't on the coverage team though, it's on the return team, and no, he's not returning the ball. Check out the block Guyton, number 58, delivers near the 40 just as a tackler was closing on the return man, number 4.
                             
                             
                             
                            Scott Sheaffer




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                          • Frank
                            Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he just pushed the guy out of bounds to me. Sorry I can t be more enthusiastic.
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 2, 2008
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                              <Mike> Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he just
                              pushed the guy out of bounds to me. Sorry I can't be more enthusiastic.

                              ************************

                              It's not the ball carrier being pushed out of bounds. It's the block of
                              a would be tackler by #58 (Guyton) at about the 38 yd line.

                              fdb
                            • kmacalp@aol.com
                              ***** OOPS! I forgot to add an important Thank you! to my note, Scott. Great video clip. Thanks for posting it! No problem, George. As for
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 4, 2008
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                                <George>***** OOPS! I forgot to add an important "Thank you!" to my note, Scott.
                                Great video clip. Thanks for posting it!
                                <Scott> No problem, George. As for what year the clip is from, I'm not sure. I'd guess it was 2004 or 05 when Guyton was a backup. He was a starter in 06 and 07, and in the latter season he was regarded as his team's best defensive player. He also played a little offense with 3 catches for 54 yards and a touchdown along with a couple of two point conversions.
                                 
                                Scott Sheaffer




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                              • George
                                ***** Well, he can forget about catching passes here. Who ever heard of LB catching TD passes? ;-) George An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! _____
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 4, 2008
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                                  ***** Well, he can forget about catching passes here. Who ever heard of LB catching TD passes? ;-)
                                   

                                  George
                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                   


                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kmacalp@...
                                  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:41 AM
                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Pats Undrafted Free Agents

                                  <George>***** OOPS! I forgot to add an important "Thank you!" to my note, Scott.
                                  Great video clip. Thanks for posting it!
                                  <Scott> No problem, George. As for what year the clip is from, I'm not sure. I'd guess it was 2004 or 05 when Guyton was a backup. He was a starter in 06 and 07, and in the latter season he was regarded as his team's best defensive player. He also played a little offense with 3 catches for 54 yards and a touchdown along with a couple of two point conversions.
                                   
                                  Scott Sheaffer




                                  Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

                                • J.E. Travers
                                  Oooooooooooh. Gotcha. Duh. Frank wrote: Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 5, 2008
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                                    Oooooooooooh. Gotcha. Duh.

                                    Frank <frank.dana@...> wrote:
                                    <Mike> Am I watching the same tape as you guys? It looks like he just
                                    pushed the guy out of bounds to me. Sorry I can't be more enthusiastic.

                                    ************ ********* ***

                                    It's not the ball carrier being pushed out of bounds. It's the block of
                                    a would be tackler by #58 (Guyton) at about the 38 yd line.

                                    fdb



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