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Re: Moss Contract

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  • kevin M
    Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn t it? As I recall, the most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be faulty in that
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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      Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn't it? As I recall, the
      most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be
      faulty in that regard. I agree with you that the celebrating is often
      stupid and over the top. Sometimes, though, it is done for the fans,
      and that is not selfish. If done on home field. For a few seconds. I
      really don't like stunts like the "cell phone call" or the hidden
      Sharpie. I think I like the spike and high-fives. I like when Randy
      splits the defense. But that is just my opinion.
    • George
      ***** I know we ve mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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        ***** I know we've mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity of the chop job that the &$#*%@& media did on him in past years is sickening and disgraceful! (Are "sickening" and "disgraceful" synonyms for "media"?)
         
        ***** Both BB and Brady have made specific comments to praise Moss' knowledge of the game. Did you ever hear than mentioned, or see it written, at any previous point in his career? He has shown a willingness to block, and repeatedly demonstrated that he is much more concerned about winning games, than about being the leading receiver in every game. He was branded as a "very talented, lazy, trouble-making head case" almost from day one in the NFL. Damn shame. It really is.
         
        ***** Did I mention that I'm glad he's back? :-)
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:13 PM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

        With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
        franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
        statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
        not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

        More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
        basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
        faith, and he appreciated that.

        We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
        criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

        Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
        a one year deal. Any opinions?

        fdb

        --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "George" <patswingr@. ..> wrote:

        >
        > ***** Considering
        what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
        puts on
        > opposing
        defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
        today's
        > NFL
        economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
        hope that
        > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
        effectively, and
        > less exclusively, that they did over the last
        several games of the
        season.
        > Why not move him around more with
        motion, etc., to scramble the
        double
        > coverage, and give him more
        opportunities to catch shorter passes,
        and get
        > some YAC? Anyway,
        bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
        again! By the
        > way, I
        also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
        for the #4
        > or #5 WR spot.
        >
        > ***** I also agree on Gaffney,
        Randy; as well as on the need for a
        strong
        > blocking TE. We'll see
        what happens there.
        >
        > ***** But I am more anxious to see some
        positive movement on the
        defensive
        > improvement we need.
        >
        >
        > George
        > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From:
        href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
        [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
        > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
        > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008
        12:03 AM
        > To:
        href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
        >
        Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
        >
        fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
        elsewhere
        > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with
        12-15
        Million
        > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than
        the
        guaranteed money
        > he walked away from to come to New England in
        the first place.
        >
        > He showed he was true to his words here and we
        showed we are
        willing to risk
        > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll
        come through fine.
        >
        > As for Brady paying attention to all his
        options, that's up to Tom
        Brady to
        > play his game as he normally
        would do. There are many factors
        including an
        > offensive coordinator
        who must ensure he game plans for various
        opponent
        > options and takes
        what is going to make the offense the most
        effective for
        > winning the
        game.
        >
        > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
        our
        offense. With
        > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight
        end and Dave
        Thomas has
        > spent too much time injured for me to feel
        confident. Similar
        with Ben
        > Watson. Both are worth keeping but
        neither is the blocking tight
        end this
        > team so well appreciates and
        misses with the absence of Brady and
        Graham. I
        > think we'll see us
        pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
        >
        > Go
        Pats!
        >
        Zip
        >

      • George
        ***** I m with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the extended dances, and elaborate shows that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted,
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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          ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the "extended" dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless situation is way off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a show of emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
           
          ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high five" a teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked Troy Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the expression of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation", I'm for it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play, offensively or defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my fist on the chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally, as on a game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist toward the ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope that all players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see them express it.
           
          ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me, too unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the opponent. It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL teams is very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it more". I believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows that a player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a win for a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should celebrate a big play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next play.
           
          ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff. Right now, I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration; while ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just too subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have to continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our personal standards, I guess. :-)
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
          Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:24 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

          Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

          "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

          Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
           
          Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
           
          The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
           
          The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Jan Smyth
          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
          Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

          I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

          George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
          ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
           
          ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
           
          ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
           
          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

          I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
           
          He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
           
          As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
           
          I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
           


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        • George
          ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that group
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that "group celebrations" are not allowed. That was put in to stop the foolish "choreographed routines" that had begun to spring up: rolling the ball into teammates set up as bowling pins; forming a ring for a guy to roll the dice for a winner; and a few other time-wasting, "look at us" routines. I'd like to see them put some words together that somehow identify "formal, rehearsed routines" as illegal, and allow guys to come together for some simple slaps and hugs, etc.
             
            ***** Oh, and, obviously, anything that is directed at the opponent is a no-no. Celebrate your achievement. Don't taunt the opponent!
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
            Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:20 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

            I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
            been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
            I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
            Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
            him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
            most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
            off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
            celebrate.

            It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
            with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
            receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
            kickoff. Go figure.

            fdb

            --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@ ...> wrote:

            >
            > Call me old
            fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
            Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
            after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
            manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
            teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
            moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
            >
            > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .> wrote:

            > Actually
            I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
            of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
            league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
            Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
            it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
            others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
            in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
            moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
            than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
            and that was a bit ago.
            >
            > Celebrate the touchdowns with
            your team and otherwise act like
            you've been there.
            >
            > The
            most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
            in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
            they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
            was missing something pretty important.
            >
            > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the
            Lambeau leap
            which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
            exactly what football is about to me.
            >
            > Go
            Pats!
            > Zip
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Jan Smyth
            > To:
            href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
            > Subject: RE:
            [patriotzip] Moss Contract
            >
            >
            > I just wish Moss wasn't
            such a hot dog.
            >
            > George <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team,
            the
            pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
            reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
            to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
            particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
            exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
            season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
            scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
            shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
            have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
            of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
            >
            > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on
            the
            need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
            >
            > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
            on the defensive improvement we need.
            >
            > George
            > An imperfect
            fan of the imperfect Patriots!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ------------ --------- --------- ---
            > From:
            href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
            > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03
            AM
            > To:
            href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            >
            Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
            sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
            received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
            year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
            less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
            England in the first place.
            >
            >
            He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
            are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
            through fine.
            >
            > As
            for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
            up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
            are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
            ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
            going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
            >
            > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good
            about most of
            our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
            tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
            feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
            but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
            appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
            think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
            >
            > Go Pats!
            > Zip
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            Make Yahoo your homepage.
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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            Try it now.
            >

          • George
            ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled celebrating. In a way, it pissed me off as much as a dance would today. Most guys would at least get up and put the fist in the air, or bump with a teammate. Brown's body language always seemed to say; "Making a big play on you guys is no big deal. I can do it anytime I want." ... And, of course, he was right! :-)
               
              ***** Jim Brown was the first player for whom I ever had a tremendous respect and appreciation of talent, despite the fact that he played for "the enemy". Got a long list of them since then.
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
              Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:51 AM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
              I don't remember Jim Brown either.
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
              Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

              Don


              From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

              "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

              Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

              Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

              The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

              The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

              Go Pats!

              Zip

              ----- Original Message -----

              From: Jan Smyth

              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

              Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

              George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

              !

              ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

              ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

              ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!


              From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

              He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

              As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

              I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

              Go Pats!

              Zip


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            • Dave Levine
              * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and running to the bench. No
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 7, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very
                unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and
                running to the bench. No dance, no showing off, no showing someone
                up.

                * The penalty late in the year was not for excessive celebration. It
                was for a team celebration. For the first time all year, Moss did
                something other than the "split the D" thing and did a little jig.
                Maroney was the idiot who danced along with him garnering the penalty.

                * On a side note, Payton did celebrate by holding the ball up in the
                air for a few seconds and then dropping it or handing it to the ref.
                No more than what Moss does this year. He was showing everyone that
                he was the greatest. The crime is that he never got to do it in the
                SB against us. I don't mind losing to the Bears in the game. I mind
                that the fat Fridge was the one who scored instead of Sweetness.

                * Dave


                --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
                >
                > ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate
                the "extended"
                > dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also,
                as Randy
                > noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless
                situation is way
                > off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a
                show of
                > emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
                >
                > ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high
                five" a
                > teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked
                Troy
                > Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the
                expression
                > of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation",
                I'm for
                > it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play,
                offensively or
                > defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my
                fist on the
                > chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally,
                as on a
                > game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist
                toward the
                > ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope
                that all
                > players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see
                them
                > express it.
                >
                > ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me,
                too
                > unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the
                opponent.
                > It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL
                teams is
                > very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it
                more". I
                > believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows
                that a
                > player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a
                win for
                > a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should
                celebrate a big
                > play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next
                play.
                >
                > ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff.
                Right now,
                > I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration;
                while
                > ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just
                too
                > subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have
                to
                > continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our
                personal
                > standards, I guess. :-)
                >
                >
                > George
                > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                >
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