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RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

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  • George
    ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today s NFL economy.
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 4, 2008
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      ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
       
      ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
       
      ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
       

      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

       


      From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

      I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
       
      He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
       
      As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
       
      I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
       
      Go Pats!
      Zip
       

    • Frank
      With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his statement, Randy s agent said the
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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        With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
        franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
        statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
        not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

        More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
        basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
        faith, and he appreciated that.

        We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
        criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

        Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
        a one year deal. Any opinions?

        fdb


        --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
        >
        > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
        puts on
        > opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
        today's
        > NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
        hope that
        > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
        effectively, and
        > less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
        season.
        > Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the
        double
        > coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes,
        and get
        > some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
        again! By the
        > way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
        for the #4
        > or #5 WR spot.
        >
        > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a
        strong
        > blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
        >
        > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the
        defensive
        > improvement we need.
        >
        >
        > George
        > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
        > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
        > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
        > fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
        elsewhere
        > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with 12-15
        Million
        > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the
        guaranteed money
        > he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
        >
        > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are
        willing to risk
        > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come through fine.
        >
        > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom
        Brady to
        > play his game as he normally would do. There are many factors
        including an
        > offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various
        opponent
        > options and takes what is going to make the offense the most
        effective for
        > winning the game.
        >
        > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our
        offense. With
        > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave
        Thomas has
        > spent too much time injured for me to feel confident. Similar
        with Ben
        > Watson. Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight
        end this
        > team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and
        Graham. I
        > think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
        >
        > Go Pats!
        > Zip
        >
      • Susan Moore
        I hadn t looked at things like that Frank, that they were doing a good-faith thing by not franchising him. Thanks for the insight! I guess that unless we are
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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          I hadn't looked at things like that Frank, that they were doing a good-faith thing by not franchising him. Thanks for the insight!
          I guess that unless we are inside with all the conversations and handling of these players, we might not understand certain decisions. We have to trust that BB et al make the right moves..hard at times.
          I'm glad Moss is back on board and I think that we'll have an even better year this year...NOT hoping for that undefeated season, but rather that good play and the run for (and the winning of) the SB.
          I miss Asante and wish that he had stayed with us...sigh. Some of the moves bother me, even though I know they are made with regard to our overall good play.
           
          Susan
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Frank
          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:13 AM
          Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

          With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
          franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
          statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
          not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

          More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
          basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
          faith, and he appreciated that.

          We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
          criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

          Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
          a one year deal. Any opinions?

          fdb

          --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "George" <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
          puts on
          > opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
          today's
          > NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
          hope that
          > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
          effectively, and
          > less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
          season.
          > Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the
          double
          > coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes,
          and get
          > some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
          again! By the
          > way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
          for the #4
          > or #5 WR spot.
          >
          > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a
          strong
          > blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
          >
          > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the
          defensive
          > improvement we need.
          >
          >
          > George
          > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
          > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
          > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
          > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
          > fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
          elsewhere
          > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with 12-15
          Million
          > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the
          guaranteed money
          > he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
          >
          > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are
          willing to risk
          > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come through fine.
          >
          > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom
          Brady to
          > play his game as he normally would do. There are many factors
          including an
          > offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various
          opponent
          > options and takes what is going to make the offense the most
          effective for
          > winning the game.
          >
          > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our
          offense. With
          > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave
          Thomas has
          > spent too much time injured for me to feel confident. Similar
          with Ben
          > Watson. Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight
          end this
          > team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and
          Graham. I
          > think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
          >
          > Go Pats!
          > Zip
          >

        • Jan Smyth
          I just wish Moss wasn t such a hot dog. George wrote: ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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            I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

            George <patswingr@...> wrote:
            ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
             
            ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
             
            ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
             
            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

            I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
             
            He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
             
            As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
             
            I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             


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          • llj7366@aol.com
            You think he is a hot dog. I used to think he was a hot dog but not since he came here. He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good job acting grown
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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              You think he is a hot dog.  I used to think he was a hot dog but not since he came here.  He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good job acting grown up in my opinion.  He has handled himself like a team player since he has arrived in New England, in my humble opinion.
              LISA
               
               
              In a message dated 3/5/2008 3:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@... writes:

              I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

               



            • RandyZ. Pierce
              Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league. I prefer the team
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                 
                Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                 
                The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                 
                The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                 
                Go Pats!
                Zip
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Jan Smyth
                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                 
                ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                 
                ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                 
                George
                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                 


                From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                 
                He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                 
                As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                 
                I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                 
                Go Pats!
                Zip
                 


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              • kevin M
                Actually, he does ham it up a little following another amazing TD catch. I wonder how much hot dogging I would do if I had that much talent? I wonder how
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                  Actually, he does ham it up a little following another amazing TD
                  catch. I wonder how much hot dogging I would do if I had that much
                  talent? I wonder how much any of us would? He doesn't do that much,
                  it's only after TD's, so that's why it seems like a lot. He scores
                  lots of them.
                • Frank
                  I think he has changed quite a bit - grown up, if you will. Can t imagine him fake-mooning the Jets crowd. Doesn t seem like his personality since he s been
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think he has changed quite a bit - grown up, if you will. Can't
                    imagine him fake-mooning the Jets crowd. Doesn't seem like his
                    personality since he's been here. He hasn't even spiked the ball
                    after a TD, that I can remember (might have missed it). Generally
                    hands it to the ref, does his little "split the defense" move, and
                    heads to the bench. I don't think he's the same guy he was 5 years
                    ago.

                    fdb

                    --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, llj7366@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > You think he is a hot dog. I used to think he was a hot dog but
                    not since
                    > he came here. He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good
                    job acting
                    > grown up in my opinion. He has handled himself like a team
                    player since he has
                    > arrived in New England, in my humble opinion.
                    > LISA
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 3/5/2008 3:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    > jansmyth001@... writes:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
                    Money &
                    > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
                    >
                  • Jan Smyth
                    Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                      Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                      "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
                      Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                       
                      Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                       
                      The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                       
                      The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                       
                      Go Pats!
                      Zip
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Jan Smyth
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                      Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                      I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                      George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                      ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                       
                      ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                       
                      ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                       
                      George
                      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                       


                      From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                      To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                      Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                      I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                       
                      He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                       
                      As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                       
                      I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                       
                      Go Pats!
                      Zip
                       


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                    • llj7366@aol.com
                      Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act. But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it. I don t know why, but it does. And
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                        Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act.  But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it.  I don't know why, but it does.  And I love it when they jump into the crowd.  And Moss is one of thousands before him that celebrates.  I really think that he has really come a very long way and I am proud of him.  He was a jerk in my opinion and I was honestly worried when he arrived.  But he has been a model citizen, other than the issue with the Miami woman.  And even that, in my opinion, was handled well. 
                        LISA
                         
                        In a message dated 3/5/2008 5:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@... writes:

                        Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                         



                      • Frank
                        I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, Act like you ve been there before . But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating. I like when players
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                          I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                          been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                          I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                          Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                          him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                          most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                          off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                          celebrate.

                          It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                          with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                          receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                          kickoff. Go figure.

                          fdb

                          --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                          Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                          after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                          manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                          teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                          moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                          >
                          > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:

                          > Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                          of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                          league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                          Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                          it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                          others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                          in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                          moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                          than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                          and that was a bit ago.
                          >
                          > Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like
                          you've been there.
                          >
                          > The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                          in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                          they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                          was missing something pretty important.
                          >
                          > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap
                          which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                          exactly what football is about to me.
                          >
                          > Go Pats!
                          > Zip
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Jan Smyth
                          > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                          > Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                          >
                          >
                          > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                          >
                          > George <patswingr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the
                          pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                          reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                          to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                          particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                          exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                          season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                          scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                          shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                          have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                          of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                          >
                          > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the
                          need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                          >
                          > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                          on the defensive improvement we need.
                          >
                          > George
                          > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
                          > From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                          > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                          > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                          sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                          received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                          year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                          less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                          England in the first place.
                          >
                          > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                          are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                          through fine.
                          >
                          > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                          up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                          are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                          ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                          going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                          >
                          > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                          our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                          tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                          feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                          but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                          appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                          think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                          >
                          > Go Pats!
                          > Zip
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
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                          Try it now.
                          >
                        • Jan Smyth
                          Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act. Yes, indeed. I agree. Wish that kind of class was the rule and not the exception to the rule these days. Behaving
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            "Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act."

                            Yes, indeed. I agree. Wish that kind of class was the rule and not the exception to the rule these days. Behaving like a true sportsman and true gentlemen is becoming harder and harded to find -- and hard to point out to your kids as an example of how the game should be played. Silly dances, to me, are performed by silly clowns, no matter what team they're affilliated with. Yet some fans enjoy such sophmoric antics. Oh well, I guess that's what makes horse races.

                            llj7366@... wrote:
                            Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act.  But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it.  I don't know why, but it does.  And I love it when they jump into the crowd.  And Moss is one of thousands before him that celebrates.  I really think that he has really come a very long way and I am proud of him.  He was a jerk in my opinion and I was honestly worried when he arrived.  But he has been a model citizen, other than the issue with the Miami woman.  And even that, in my opinion, was handled well. 
                            LISA
                             
                            In a message dated 3/5/2008 5:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@ yahoo.com writes:
                            Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                             





                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                          • Jan Smyth
                            ...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the receiver celebrates with his teammates in
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                              with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                              receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                              kickoff. Go figure."

                              Go figure indeed. You'd think that at the very least the rules could be applied consistently.

                              Frank <frank.dana@...> wrote:
                              I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                              been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                              I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                              Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                              him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                              most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                              off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                              celebrate.

                              It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                              with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                              receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                              kickoff. Go figure.

                              fdb

                              --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                              Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                              after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                              manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                              teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                              moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                              >
                              > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .> wrote:

                              > Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                              of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                              league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                              Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                              it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                              others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                              in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                              moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                              than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                              and that was a bit ago.
                              >
                              > Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like
                              you've been there.
                              >
                              > The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                              in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                              they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                              was missing something pretty important.
                              >
                              > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap
                              which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                              exactly what football is about to me.
                              >
                              > Go Pats!
                              > Zip
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Jan Smyth
                              > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                              >
                              >
                              > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                              >
                              > George <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
                              >
                              > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the
                              pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                              reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                              to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                              particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                              exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                              season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                              scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                              shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                              have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                              of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                              >
                              > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the
                              need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                              >
                              > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                              on the defensive improvement we need.
                              >
                              > George
                              > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                              > From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                              [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                              > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                              > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                              sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                              received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                              year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                              less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                              England in the first place.
                              >
                              > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                              are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                              through fine.
                              >
                              > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                              up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                              are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                              ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                              going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                              >
                              > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                              our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                              tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                              feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                              but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                              appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                              think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                              >
                              > Go Pats!
                              > Zip
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                              Try it now.
                              >



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                            • Don Diamant
                              Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes. He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember. It
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment

                                Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                 

                                Don

                                 


                                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                 

                                Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                 

                                Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                 

                                The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                 

                                The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                 

                                Go Pats!

                                Zip

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: Jan Smyth

                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                 

                                I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                !

                                ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                 

                                ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                 

                                ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                 

                                George
                                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                 

                                 


                                From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                 

                                He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                 

                                As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                 

                                I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                 

                                Go Pats!

                                Zip

                                 

                                 


                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                 

                                 


                                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                              • Susan Moore
                                I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                  I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                  Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                  Don


                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                  Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                  "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                  Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                  Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                  The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                  The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                  Go Pats!

                                  Zip

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  From: Jan Smyth

                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                  I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                  George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  !

                                  ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                  ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                  ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                  George
                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!


                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                  I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                  He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                  As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                  I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                  Go Pats!

                                  Zip


                                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                   


                                  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                • erdoboy_patsfan
                                  Jan, I think a major part of where and when a flag gets thrown is dependant on where the celebration takes place. Supposedly the flag thrown against Moss, (was
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jan,
                                    I think a major part of where and when a flag gets thrown is dependant
                                    on where the celebration takes place. Supposedly the flag thrown
                                    against Moss, (was it in the week17 game at the Giants?)only garnered
                                    him a flag because he did it right in front of the defender. Never
                                    mind that it tied the NFL record.
                                    I read someplace that the most important aspect of calling a foul on
                                    this is supposed to be if it can be viewed as taunting a player from
                                    the other team.

                                    Agreed that they could be more consistant on the call. For example
                                    they SHOULD have called on on da Prince when he got in the face of
                                    Smith from Pitt after that long TD after he spent the week promising a
                                    victory. Certainly THAT was text book taunting. Brady went after him
                                    to get in his face to make his comments and pointed.

                                    Erdoboy - BTW, can people at least pretend to trim off the excess from
                                    the posts...


                                    --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > "...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                    > with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                    > receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                    > kickoff. Go figure."
                                    >
                                    > Go figure indeed. You'd think that at the very least the rules
                                    could be applied consistently.
                                    >
                                  • erdoboy_patsfan
                                    Um, Susan, You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against the
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Um, Susan,
                                      You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point
                                      in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against
                                      the game of football.

                                      Erdoboy -

                                      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Moore" <scmoore@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton
                                      DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in
                                      the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original
                                      celebrating types?
                                    • Susan Moore
                                      Um, Ed, No, I didn t realize that but thanks for pointing it out...lol!! That s when I first started to really follow football...both Pats and my other teams a
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Um, Ed,
                                        No, I didn't realize that but thanks for pointing it out...lol!!
                                        That's when I first started to really follow football...both Pats and my other teams a few years later.
                                        Guess with that SB, I was really mad about whoever was scoring against us and not paying close attention..lol!! That IS a crime against football for the Fridge to score and not Walter.
                                         
                                        Susan...who trimmed as requested!
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:05 PM
                                        Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                        Um, Susan,
                                        You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point
                                        in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against
                                        the game of football.

                                        .

                                      • Jan Smyth
                                        Is this argument actually grasping at the fact that Walter Peyton may have celebrated in the end zone from time to time and that he could have been one of
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Is this argument actually grasping at the fact that Walter Peyton "may have celebrated" in the end zone from time to time and that he "could have been one of the original celebrating types?" Ohhh, pah-leeze, wake up and smell the Starbucks, folks! On the rare occasion that Walter Peyton did anything other than score a TD, hand the ref the ball and exit the field in a wonderfully unassumingly manner, his celebration was limited to punching a whole in the sky or something just as natural and spontaneous when the TD really counted. And even these rare "celebrations" by the true sportmen of yesteryear are completely different from all these lesser day hot dogs (like Moss and many others), who stage their stupidly-rehearsed choreographies and perform them so obnoxiously for the sake of their own egos and/or for cameras stupid enough to give them the time and attention. Please, my friends, if you honor the game, don't liken the sportsmanship of a gentleman like Walter Peyton or Jim Brown to anyone who in the NFL who lowers the bar for celebration to trumped-up, silly dances that they rehearse in their bedroom mirrors and perform in the end zone every chance they get -- in an stage act that should only be appreciated by "sports" zombies who follow the great "drama" of wrestling. 

                                          Susan Moore <scmoore@...> wrote:
                                          I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                          I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                          Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn�t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I�m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can�t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don�t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it�s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn�t score any touchdowns.
                                          Don

                                          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                          Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                          "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:
                                          Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                                          Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                                          The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                                          The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                                          Go Pats!
                                          Zip
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Jan Smyth
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                          I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                          George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                          !
                                          ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                          ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                          ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                                          George
                                          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                          Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                          I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                                          He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                                          As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                          I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                          Go Pats!
                                          Zip

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                                        • kevin M
                                          Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn t it? As I recall, the most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be faulty in that
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn't it? As I recall, the
                                            most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be
                                            faulty in that regard. I agree with you that the celebrating is often
                                            stupid and over the top. Sometimes, though, it is done for the fans,
                                            and that is not selfish. If done on home field. For a few seconds. I
                                            really don't like stunts like the "cell phone call" or the hidden
                                            Sharpie. I think I like the spike and high-fives. I like when Randy
                                            splits the defense. But that is just my opinion.
                                          • George
                                            ***** I know we ve mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              ***** I know we've mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity of the chop job that the &$#*%@& media did on him in past years is sickening and disgraceful! (Are "sickening" and "disgraceful" synonyms for "media"?)
                                               
                                              ***** Both BB and Brady have made specific comments to praise Moss' knowledge of the game. Did you ever hear than mentioned, or see it written, at any previous point in his career? He has shown a willingness to block, and repeatedly demonstrated that he is much more concerned about winning games, than about being the leading receiver in every game. He was branded as a "very talented, lazy, trouble-making head case" almost from day one in the NFL. Damn shame. It really is.
                                               
                                              ***** Did I mention that I'm glad he's back? :-)
                                               

                                              George
                                              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                               


                                              From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
                                              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:13 PM
                                              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                              With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
                                              franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
                                              statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
                                              not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

                                              More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
                                              basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
                                              faith, and he appreciated that.

                                              We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
                                              criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

                                              Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
                                              a one year deal. Any opinions?

                                              fdb

                                              --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "George" <patswingr@. ..> wrote:

                                              >
                                              > ***** Considering
                                              what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
                                              puts on
                                              > opposing
                                              defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
                                              today's
                                              > NFL
                                              economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
                                              hope that
                                              > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
                                              effectively, and
                                              > less exclusively, that they did over the last
                                              several games of the
                                              season.
                                              > Why not move him around more with
                                              motion, etc., to scramble the
                                              double
                                              > coverage, and give him more
                                              opportunities to catch shorter passes,
                                              and get
                                              > some YAC? Anyway,
                                              bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
                                              again! By the
                                              > way, I
                                              also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
                                              for the #4
                                              > or #5 WR spot.
                                              >
                                              > ***** I also agree on Gaffney,
                                              Randy; as well as on the need for a
                                              strong
                                              > blocking TE. We'll see
                                              what happens there.
                                              >
                                              > ***** But I am more anxious to see some
                                              positive movement on the
                                              defensive
                                              > improvement we need.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > George
                                              > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > _____
                                              >
                                              > From:
                                              href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                              [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                              > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008
                                              12:03 AM
                                              > To:
                                              href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                              >
                                              Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
                                              >
                                              fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
                                              elsewhere
                                              > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with
                                              12-15
                                              Million
                                              > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than
                                              the
                                              guaranteed money
                                              > he walked away from to come to New England in
                                              the first place.
                                              >
                                              > He showed he was true to his words here and we
                                              showed we are
                                              willing to risk
                                              > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll
                                              come through fine.
                                              >
                                              > As for Brady paying attention to all his
                                              options, that's up to Tom
                                              Brady to
                                              > play his game as he normally
                                              would do. There are many factors
                                              including an
                                              > offensive coordinator
                                              who must ensure he game plans for various
                                              opponent
                                              > options and takes
                                              what is going to make the offense the most
                                              effective for
                                              > winning the
                                              game.
                                              >
                                              > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                                              our
                                              offense. With
                                              > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight
                                              end and Dave
                                              Thomas has
                                              > spent too much time injured for me to feel
                                              confident. Similar
                                              with Ben
                                              > Watson. Both are worth keeping but
                                              neither is the blocking tight
                                              end this
                                              > team so well appreciates and
                                              misses with the absence of Brady and
                                              Graham. I
                                              > think we'll see us
                                              pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                              >
                                              > Go
                                              Pats!
                                              >
                                              Zip
                                              >

                                            • George
                                              ***** I m with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the extended dances, and elaborate shows that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted,
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the "extended" dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless situation is way off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a show of emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
                                                 
                                                ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high five" a teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked Troy Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the expression of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation", I'm for it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play, offensively or defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my fist on the chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally, as on a game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist toward the ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope that all players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see them express it.
                                                 
                                                ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me, too unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the opponent. It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL teams is very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it more". I believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows that a player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a win for a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should celebrate a big play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next play.
                                                 
                                                ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff. Right now, I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration; while ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just too subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have to continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our personal standards, I guess. :-)
                                                 

                                                George
                                                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                 


                                                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                                Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:24 AM
                                                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                                "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                                Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                                                 
                                                Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                                                 
                                                The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                                                 
                                                The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                                                 
                                                Go Pats!
                                                Zip
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jan Smyth
                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                                Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                                George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                                 
                                                ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                                 
                                                ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                                                 
                                                George
                                                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                 


                                                From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                                To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                                                 
                                                He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                                                 
                                                As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                                 
                                                I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                                 
                                                Go Pats!
                                                Zip
                                                 


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                                                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                              • George
                                                ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that group
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that "group celebrations" are not allowed. That was put in to stop the foolish "choreographed routines" that had begun to spring up: rolling the ball into teammates set up as bowling pins; forming a ring for a guy to roll the dice for a winner; and a few other time-wasting, "look at us" routines. I'd like to see them put some words together that somehow identify "formal, rehearsed routines" as illegal, and allow guys to come together for some simple slaps and hugs, etc.
                                                   
                                                  ***** Oh, and, obviously, anything that is directed at the opponent is a no-no. Celebrate your achievement. Don't taunt the opponent!
                                                   

                                                  George
                                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                   


                                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:20 AM
                                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                                  I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                                                  been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                                                  I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                                                  Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                                                  him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                                                  most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                                                  off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                                                  celebrate.

                                                  It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                                  with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                                  receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                                  kickoff. Go figure.

                                                  fdb

                                                  --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@ ...> wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > Call me old
                                                  fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                                                  Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                                                  after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                                                  manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                                                  teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                                                  moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                                                  >
                                                  > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .> wrote:

                                                  > Actually
                                                  I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                                                  of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                                                  league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                                                  Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                                                  it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                                                  others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                                                  in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                                                  moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                                                  than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                                                  and that was a bit ago.
                                                  >
                                                  > Celebrate the touchdowns with
                                                  your team and otherwise act like
                                                  you've been there.
                                                  >
                                                  > The
                                                  most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                                                  in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                                                  they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                                                  was missing something pretty important.
                                                  >
                                                  > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the
                                                  Lambeau leap
                                                  which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                                                  exactly what football is about to me.
                                                  >
                                                  > Go
                                                  Pats!
                                                  > Zip
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: Jan Smyth
                                                  > To:
                                                  href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                                  > Subject: RE:
                                                  [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I just wish Moss wasn't
                                                  such a hot dog.
                                                  >
                                                  > George <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team,
                                                  the
                                                  pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                                                  reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                                                  to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                                                  particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                                                  exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                                                  season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                                                  scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                                                  shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                                                  have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                                                  of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                                  >
                                                  > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on
                                                  the
                                                  need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                                  >
                                                  > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                                                  on the defensive improvement we need.
                                                  >
                                                  > George
                                                  > An imperfect
                                                  fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                  > From:
                                                  href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                  > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03
                                                  AM
                                                  > To:
                                                  href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  >
                                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                                                  sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                                                  received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                                                  year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                                                  less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                                                  England in the first place.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                                                  are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                                                  through fine.
                                                  >
                                                  > As
                                                  for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                                                  up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                                                  are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                                                  ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                                                  going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                                  >
                                                  > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good
                                                  about most of
                                                  our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                                                  tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                                                  feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                                                  but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                                                  appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                                                  think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                                  >
                                                  > Go Pats!
                                                  > Zip
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                  > Never miss a thing.
                                                  Make Yahoo your homepage.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                  > Be a better
                                                  friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                                                  Try it now.
                                                  >

                                                • George
                                                  ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled celebrating. In a way, it pissed me off as much as a dance would today. Most guys would at least get up and put the fist in the air, or bump with a teammate. Brown's body language always seemed to say; "Making a big play on you guys is no big deal. I can do it anytime I want." ... And, of course, he was right! :-)
                                                     
                                                    ***** Jim Brown was the first player for whom I ever had a tremendous respect and appreciation of talent, despite the fact that he played for "the enemy". Got a long list of them since then.
                                                     

                                                    George
                                                    An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                     


                                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:51 AM
                                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                    I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                                    I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                                     
                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                                    Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                    Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                                    Don


                                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                    Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                                    "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                                    Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                                    Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                                    The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                                    The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                                    Go Pats!

                                                    Zip

                                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                                    From: Jan Smyth

                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                                    Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                    I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                                    George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                                    !

                                                    ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                                    ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                                    ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                                    George
                                                    An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!


                                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                    I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                                    He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                                    As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                                    I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                                    Go Pats!

                                                    Zip


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                                                  • Dave Levine
                                                    * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and running to the bench. No
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 7, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very
                                                      unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and
                                                      running to the bench. No dance, no showing off, no showing someone
                                                      up.

                                                      * The penalty late in the year was not for excessive celebration. It
                                                      was for a team celebration. For the first time all year, Moss did
                                                      something other than the "split the D" thing and did a little jig.
                                                      Maroney was the idiot who danced along with him garnering the penalty.

                                                      * On a side note, Payton did celebrate by holding the ball up in the
                                                      air for a few seconds and then dropping it or handing it to the ref.
                                                      No more than what Moss does this year. He was showing everyone that
                                                      he was the greatest. The crime is that he never got to do it in the
                                                      SB against us. I don't mind losing to the Bears in the game. I mind
                                                      that the fat Fridge was the one who scored instead of Sweetness.

                                                      * Dave


                                                      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate
                                                      the "extended"
                                                      > dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also,
                                                      as Randy
                                                      > noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless
                                                      situation is way
                                                      > off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a
                                                      show of
                                                      > emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
                                                      >
                                                      > ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high
                                                      five" a
                                                      > teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked
                                                      Troy
                                                      > Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the
                                                      expression
                                                      > of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation",
                                                      I'm for
                                                      > it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play,
                                                      offensively or
                                                      > defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my
                                                      fist on the
                                                      > chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally,
                                                      as on a
                                                      > game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist
                                                      toward the
                                                      > ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope
                                                      that all
                                                      > players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see
                                                      them
                                                      > express it.
                                                      >
                                                      > ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me,
                                                      too
                                                      > unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the
                                                      opponent.
                                                      > It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL
                                                      teams is
                                                      > very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it
                                                      more". I
                                                      > believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows
                                                      that a
                                                      > player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a
                                                      win for
                                                      > a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should
                                                      celebrate a big
                                                      > play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next
                                                      play.
                                                      >
                                                      > ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff.
                                                      Right now,
                                                      > I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration;
                                                      while
                                                      > ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just
                                                      too
                                                      > subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have
                                                      to
                                                      > continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our
                                                      personal
                                                      > standards, I guess. :-)
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > George
                                                      > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                      >
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