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Moss Contract

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  • RandyZ. Pierce
    I m happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 4, 2008
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      I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
       
      He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
       
      As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
       
      I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
       
      Go Pats!
      Zip
       
    • George
      ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today s NFL economy.
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 4, 2008
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        ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
         
        ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
         
        ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

        I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
         
        He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
         
        As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
         
        I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
         
        Go Pats!
        Zip
         

      • Frank
        With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his statement, Randy s agent said the
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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          With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
          franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
          statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
          not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

          More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
          basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
          faith, and he appreciated that.

          We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
          criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

          Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
          a one year deal. Any opinions?

          fdb


          --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
          >
          > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
          puts on
          > opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
          today's
          > NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
          hope that
          > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
          effectively, and
          > less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
          season.
          > Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the
          double
          > coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes,
          and get
          > some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
          again! By the
          > way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
          for the #4
          > or #5 WR spot.
          >
          > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a
          strong
          > blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
          >
          > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the
          defensive
          > improvement we need.
          >
          >
          > George
          > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
          > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
          > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
          > fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
          elsewhere
          > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with 12-15
          Million
          > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the
          guaranteed money
          > he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
          >
          > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are
          willing to risk
          > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come through fine.
          >
          > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom
          Brady to
          > play his game as he normally would do. There are many factors
          including an
          > offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various
          opponent
          > options and takes what is going to make the offense the most
          effective for
          > winning the game.
          >
          > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our
          offense. With
          > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave
          Thomas has
          > spent too much time injured for me to feel confident. Similar
          with Ben
          > Watson. Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight
          end this
          > team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and
          Graham. I
          > think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
          >
          > Go Pats!
          > Zip
          >
        • Susan Moore
          I hadn t looked at things like that Frank, that they were doing a good-faith thing by not franchising him. Thanks for the insight! I guess that unless we are
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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            I hadn't looked at things like that Frank, that they were doing a good-faith thing by not franchising him. Thanks for the insight!
            I guess that unless we are inside with all the conversations and handling of these players, we might not understand certain decisions. We have to trust that BB et al make the right moves..hard at times.
            I'm glad Moss is back on board and I think that we'll have an even better year this year...NOT hoping for that undefeated season, but rather that good play and the run for (and the winning of) the SB.
            I miss Asante and wish that he had stayed with us...sigh. Some of the moves bother me, even though I know they are made with regard to our overall good play.
             
            Susan
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Frank
            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:13 AM
            Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

            With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
            franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
            statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
            not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

            More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
            basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
            faith, and he appreciated that.

            We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
            criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

            Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
            a one year deal. Any opinions?

            fdb

            --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "George" <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
            >
            > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
            puts on
            > opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
            today's
            > NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
            hope that
            > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
            effectively, and
            > less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
            season.
            > Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the
            double
            > coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes,
            and get
            > some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
            again! By the
            > way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
            for the #4
            > or #5 WR spot.
            >
            > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a
            strong
            > blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
            >
            > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the
            defensive
            > improvement we need.
            >
            >
            > George
            > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
            > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
            > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
            > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
            > fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
            elsewhere
            > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with 12-15
            Million
            > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the
            guaranteed money
            > he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
            >
            > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are
            willing to risk
            > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come through fine.
            >
            > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom
            Brady to
            > play his game as he normally would do. There are many factors
            including an
            > offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various
            opponent
            > options and takes what is going to make the offense the most
            effective for
            > winning the game.
            >
            > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our
            offense. With
            > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave
            Thomas has
            > spent too much time injured for me to feel confident. Similar
            with Ben
            > Watson. Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight
            end this
            > team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and
            Graham. I
            > think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
            >
            > Go Pats!
            > Zip
            >

          • Jan Smyth
            I just wish Moss wasn t such a hot dog. George wrote: ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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              I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

              George <patswingr@...> wrote:
              ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
               
              ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
               
              ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
               
              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
              Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

              I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
               
              He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
               
              As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
               
              I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
               


              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

            • llj7366@aol.com
              You think he is a hot dog. I used to think he was a hot dog but not since he came here. He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good job acting grown
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                You think he is a hot dog.  I used to think he was a hot dog but not since he came here.  He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good job acting grown up in my opinion.  He has handled himself like a team player since he has arrived in New England, in my humble opinion.
                LISA
                 
                 
                In a message dated 3/5/2008 3:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@... writes:

                I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                 



              • RandyZ. Pierce
                Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league. I prefer the team
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                  Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                   
                  Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                   
                  The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                   
                  The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                   
                  Go Pats!
                  Zip
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Jan Smyth
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                  I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                  George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                   
                  ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                   
                  ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                   
                  George
                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                  Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                  I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                   
                  He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                   
                  As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                   
                  I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                   
                  Go Pats!
                  Zip
                   


                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                • kevin M
                  Actually, he does ham it up a little following another amazing TD catch. I wonder how much hot dogging I would do if I had that much talent? I wonder how
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                    Actually, he does ham it up a little following another amazing TD
                    catch. I wonder how much hot dogging I would do if I had that much
                    talent? I wonder how much any of us would? He doesn't do that much,
                    it's only after TD's, so that's why it seems like a lot. He scores
                    lots of them.
                  • Frank
                    I think he has changed quite a bit - grown up, if you will. Can t imagine him fake-mooning the Jets crowd. Doesn t seem like his personality since he s been
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                      I think he has changed quite a bit - grown up, if you will. Can't
                      imagine him fake-mooning the Jets crowd. Doesn't seem like his
                      personality since he's been here. He hasn't even spiked the ball
                      after a TD, that I can remember (might have missed it). Generally
                      hands it to the ref, does his little "split the defense" move, and
                      heads to the bench. I don't think he's the same guy he was 5 years
                      ago.

                      fdb

                      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, llj7366@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > You think he is a hot dog. I used to think he was a hot dog but
                      not since
                      > he came here. He has grown up a lot or at least is doing a good
                      job acting
                      > grown up in my opinion. He has handled himself like a team
                      player since he has
                      > arrived in New England, in my humble opinion.
                      > LISA
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 3/5/2008 3:31:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      > jansmyth001@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL
                      Money &
                      > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
                      >
                    • Jan Smyth
                      Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                        Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                        "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
                        Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                         
                        Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                         
                        The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                         
                        The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                         
                        Go Pats!
                        Zip
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Jan Smyth
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                        Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                        I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                        George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                         
                        ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                         
                        ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                         
                        George
                        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                         


                        From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                        To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                        Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                        I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                         
                        He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                         
                        As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                         
                        I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                         
                        Go Pats!
                        Zip
                         


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                      • llj7366@aol.com
                        Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act. But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it. I don t know why, but it does. And
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                          Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act.  But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it.  I don't know why, but it does.  And I love it when they jump into the crowd.  And Moss is one of thousands before him that celebrates.  I really think that he has really come a very long way and I am proud of him.  He was a jerk in my opinion and I was honestly worried when he arrived.  But he has been a model citizen, other than the issue with the Miami woman.  And even that, in my opinion, was handled well. 
                          LISA
                           
                          In a message dated 3/5/2008 5:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@... writes:

                          Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                           



                        • Frank
                          I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, Act like you ve been there before . But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating. I like when players
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                            been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                            I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                            Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                            him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                            most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                            off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                            celebrate.

                            It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                            with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                            receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                            kickoff. Go figure.

                            fdb

                            --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                            Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                            after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                            manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                            teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                            moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                            >
                            > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:

                            > Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                            of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                            league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                            Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                            it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                            others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                            in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                            moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                            than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                            and that was a bit ago.
                            >
                            > Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like
                            you've been there.
                            >
                            > The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                            in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                            they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                            was missing something pretty important.
                            >
                            > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap
                            which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                            exactly what football is about to me.
                            >
                            > Go Pats!
                            > Zip
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: Jan Smyth
                            > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                            > Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                            >
                            >
                            > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                            >
                            > George <patswingr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the
                            pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                            reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                            to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                            particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                            exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                            season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                            scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                            shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                            have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                            of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                            >
                            > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the
                            need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                            >
                            > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                            on the defensive improvement we need.
                            >
                            > George
                            > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                            > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                            > To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                            sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                            received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                            year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                            less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                            England in the first place.
                            >
                            > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                            are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                            through fine.
                            >
                            > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                            up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                            are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                            ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                            going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                            >
                            > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                            our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                            tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                            feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                            but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                            appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                            think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                            >
                            > Go Pats!
                            > Zip
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ---------------------------------
                            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                            Try it now.
                            >
                          • Jan Smyth
                            Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act. Yes, indeed. I agree. Wish that kind of class was the rule and not the exception to the rule these days. Behaving
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act."

                              Yes, indeed. I agree. Wish that kind of class was the rule and not the exception to the rule these days. Behaving like a true sportsman and true gentlemen is becoming harder and harded to find -- and hard to point out to your kids as an example of how the game should be played. Silly dances, to me, are performed by silly clowns, no matter what team they're affilliated with. Yet some fans enjoy such sophmoric antics. Oh well, I guess that's what makes horse races.

                              llj7366@... wrote:
                              Obviously, Walter Peyton was a class act.  But I do have say that stupid dance does make me smile when the players do it.  I don't know why, but it does.  And I love it when they jump into the crowd.  And Moss is one of thousands before him that celebrates.  I really think that he has really come a very long way and I am proud of him.  He was a jerk in my opinion and I was honestly worried when he arrived.  But he has been a model citizen, other than the issue with the Miami woman.  And even that, in my opinion, was handled well. 
                              LISA
                               
                              In a message dated 3/5/2008 5:24:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, jansmyth001@ yahoo.com writes:
                              Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                               





                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                            • Jan Smyth
                              ...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the receiver celebrates with his teammates in
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                "...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                kickoff. Go figure."

                                Go figure indeed. You'd think that at the very least the rules could be applied consistently.

                                Frank <frank.dana@...> wrote:
                                I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                                been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                                I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                                Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                                him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                                most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                                off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                                celebrate.

                                It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                kickoff. Go figure.

                                fdb

                                --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                                Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                                after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                                manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                                teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                                moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                                >
                                > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .> wrote:

                                > Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                                of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                                league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                                Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                                it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                                others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                                in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                                moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                                than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                                and that was a bit ago.
                                >
                                > Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like
                                you've been there.
                                >
                                > The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                                in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                                they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                                was missing something pretty important.
                                >
                                > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap
                                which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                                exactly what football is about to me.
                                >
                                > Go Pats!
                                > Zip
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Jan Smyth
                                > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                > Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                >
                                >
                                > I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.
                                >
                                > George <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
                                >
                                > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the
                                pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                                reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                                to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                                particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                                exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                                season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                                scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                                shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                                have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                                of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                >
                                > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the
                                need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                >
                                > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                                on the defensive improvement we need.
                                >
                                > George
                                > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                > From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                > Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                                sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                                received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                                year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                                less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                                England in the first place.
                                >
                                > He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                                are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                                through fine.
                                >
                                > As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                                up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                                are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                                ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                                going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                >
                                > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                                our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                                tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                                feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                                but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                                appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                                think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                >
                                > Go Pats!
                                > Zip
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
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                                Try it now.
                                >



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                              • Don Diamant
                                Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes. He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember. It
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                   

                                  Don

                                   


                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                   

                                  Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                  "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                  Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                   

                                  Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                   

                                  The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                   

                                  The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                   

                                  Go Pats!

                                  Zip

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  From: Jan Smyth

                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                   

                                  I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                  George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                  !

                                  ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                   

                                  ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                   

                                  ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                   

                                  George
                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                   

                                   


                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                  I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                   

                                  He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                   

                                  As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                   

                                  I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                   

                                  Go Pats!

                                  Zip

                                   

                                   


                                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                   

                                   


                                  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                • Susan Moore
                                  I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                    I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                    Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                    Don


                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                    Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                    "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                    Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                    Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                    The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                    The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                    Go Pats!

                                    Zip

                                    ----- Original Message -----

                                    From: Jan Smyth

                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                    Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                    I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                    George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                    !

                                    ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                    ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                    ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                    George
                                    An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!


                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                    Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                    I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                    He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                    As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                    I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                    Go Pats!

                                    Zip


                                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                     


                                    Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                  • erdoboy_patsfan
                                    Jan, I think a major part of where and when a flag gets thrown is dependant on where the celebration takes place. Supposedly the flag thrown against Moss, (was
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Jan,
                                      I think a major part of where and when a flag gets thrown is dependant
                                      on where the celebration takes place. Supposedly the flag thrown
                                      against Moss, (was it in the week17 game at the Giants?)only garnered
                                      him a flag because he did it right in front of the defender. Never
                                      mind that it tied the NFL record.
                                      I read someplace that the most important aspect of calling a foul on
                                      this is supposed to be if it can be viewed as taunting a player from
                                      the other team.

                                      Agreed that they could be more consistant on the call. For example
                                      they SHOULD have called on on da Prince when he got in the face of
                                      Smith from Pitt after that long TD after he spent the week promising a
                                      victory. Certainly THAT was text book taunting. Brady went after him
                                      to get in his face to make his comments and pointed.

                                      Erdoboy - BTW, can people at least pretend to trim off the excess from
                                      the posts...


                                      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > "...when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                      > with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                      > receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                      > kickoff. Go figure."
                                      >
                                      > Go figure indeed. You'd think that at the very least the rules
                                      could be applied consistently.
                                      >
                                    • erdoboy_patsfan
                                      Um, Susan, You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against the
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Um, Susan,
                                        You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point
                                        in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against
                                        the game of football.

                                        Erdoboy -

                                        --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Moore" <scmoore@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton
                                        DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in
                                        the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original
                                        celebrating types?
                                      • Susan Moore
                                        Um, Ed, No, I didn t realize that but thanks for pointing it out...lol!! That s when I first started to really follow football...both Pats and my other teams a
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Um, Ed,
                                          No, I didn't realize that but thanks for pointing it out...lol!!
                                          That's when I first started to really follow football...both Pats and my other teams a few years later.
                                          Guess with that SB, I was really mad about whoever was scoring against us and not paying close attention..lol!! That IS a crime against football for the Fridge to score and not Walter.
                                           
                                          Susan...who trimmed as requested!
                                           
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:05 PM
                                          Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                          Um, Susan,
                                          You ARE aware are you not that Sweetness did not score a single point
                                          in SBXX? The Fridge scoring but Walter Not scoring was a crime against
                                          the game of football.

                                          .

                                        • Jan Smyth
                                          Is this argument actually grasping at the fact that Walter Peyton may have celebrated in the end zone from time to time and that he could have been one of
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Is this argument actually grasping at the fact that Walter Peyton "may have celebrated" in the end zone from time to time and that he "could have been one of the original celebrating types?" Ohhh, pah-leeze, wake up and smell the Starbucks, folks! On the rare occasion that Walter Peyton did anything other than score a TD, hand the ref the ball and exit the field in a wonderfully unassumingly manner, his celebration was limited to punching a whole in the sky or something just as natural and spontaneous when the TD really counted. And even these rare "celebrations" by the true sportmen of yesteryear are completely different from all these lesser day hot dogs (like Moss and many others), who stage their stupidly-rehearsed choreographies and perform them so obnoxiously for the sake of their own egos and/or for cameras stupid enough to give them the time and attention. Please, my friends, if you honor the game, don't liken the sportsmanship of a gentleman like Walter Peyton or Jim Brown to anyone who in the NFL who lowers the bar for celebration to trumped-up, silly dances that they rehearse in their bedroom mirrors and perform in the end zone every chance they get -- in an stage act that should only be appreciated by "sports" zombies who follow the great "drama" of wrestling. 

                                            Susan Moore <scmoore@...> wrote:
                                            I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                            I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                             
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                            Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn�t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I�m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can�t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don�t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it�s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn�t score any touchdowns.
                                            Don

                                            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                            Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                            "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:
                                            Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                                            Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                                            The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                                            The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                                            Go Pats!
                                            Zip
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Jan Smyth
                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                            I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                            George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                            !
                                            ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                            ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                            ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                                            George
                                            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                            Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                            I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                                            He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                                            As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                            I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                            Go Pats!
                                            Zip

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                                          • kevin M
                                            Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn t it? As I recall, the most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be faulty in that
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                                              Gee, Jan, this sure bothers you a lot, doesn't it? As I recall, the
                                              most celebrating Jim Brown did was to spike it. But my memory may be
                                              faulty in that regard. I agree with you that the celebrating is often
                                              stupid and over the top. Sometimes, though, it is done for the fans,
                                              and that is not selfish. If done on home field. For a few seconds. I
                                              really don't like stunts like the "cell phone call" or the hidden
                                              Sharpie. I think I like the spike and high-fives. I like when Randy
                                              splits the defense. But that is just my opinion.
                                            • George
                                              ***** I know we ve mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                                                ***** I know we've mentioned it before, but this contract situation warrants another notice of what a decent and mature guy Randy Moss really is. The intensity of the chop job that the &$#*%@& media did on him in past years is sickening and disgraceful! (Are "sickening" and "disgraceful" synonyms for "media"?)
                                                 
                                                ***** Both BB and Brady have made specific comments to praise Moss' knowledge of the game. Did you ever hear than mentioned, or see it written, at any previous point in his career? He has shown a willingness to block, and repeatedly demonstrated that he is much more concerned about winning games, than about being the leading receiver in every game. He was branded as a "very talented, lazy, trouble-making head case" almost from day one in the NFL. Damn shame. It really is.
                                                 
                                                ***** Did I mention that I'm glad he's back? :-)
                                                 

                                                George
                                                An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                 


                                                From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
                                                Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:13 PM
                                                To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                                With all the concern expressed by some fans when we declined to
                                                franchise Moss, it turned out to be the right move. In his
                                                statement, Randy's agent said the team showed him great respect by
                                                not franchising him, and that played a role in his decision.

                                                More often than not, BB and SP seem to know, on a player by player
                                                basis, what buttons to push. They trusted Randy to deal in good
                                                faith, and he appreciated that.

                                                We've noticed during the season, some players are motivated by
                                                criticism, some by praise. They usually know which are which.

                                                Great to see Gaffney back. Still trying to figure out why it's only
                                                a one year deal. Any opinions?

                                                fdb

                                                --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "George" <patswingr@. ..> wrote:

                                                >
                                                > ***** Considering
                                                what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he
                                                puts on
                                                > opposing
                                                defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in
                                                today's
                                                > NFL
                                                economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however,
                                                hope that
                                                > the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more
                                                effectively, and
                                                > less exclusively, that they did over the last
                                                several games of the
                                                season.
                                                > Why not move him around more with
                                                motion, etc., to scramble the
                                                double
                                                > coverage, and give him more
                                                opportunities to catch shorter passes,
                                                and get
                                                > some YAC? Anyway,
                                                bottom line, great to have Moss on the team
                                                again! By the
                                                > way, I
                                                also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken,
                                                for the #4
                                                > or #5 WR spot.
                                                >
                                                > ***** I also agree on Gaffney,
                                                Randy; as well as on the need for a
                                                strong
                                                > blocking TE. We'll see
                                                what happens there.
                                                >
                                                > ***** But I am more anxious to see some
                                                positive movement on the
                                                defensive
                                                > improvement we need.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > George
                                                > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > _____
                                                >
                                                > From:
                                                href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                                > Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008
                                                12:03 AM
                                                > To:
                                                href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                >
                                                Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides
                                                >
                                                fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have received
                                                elsewhere
                                                > with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a year with
                                                12-15
                                                Million
                                                > guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than
                                                the
                                                guaranteed money
                                                > he walked away from to come to New England in
                                                the first place.
                                                >
                                                > He showed he was true to his words here and we
                                                showed we are
                                                willing to risk
                                                > and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll
                                                come through fine.
                                                >
                                                > As for Brady paying attention to all his
                                                options, that's up to Tom
                                                Brady to
                                                > play his game as he normally
                                                would do. There are many factors
                                                including an
                                                > offensive coordinator
                                                who must ensure he game plans for various
                                                opponent
                                                > options and takes
                                                what is going to make the offense the most
                                                effective for
                                                > winning the
                                                game.
                                                >
                                                > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of
                                                our
                                                offense. With
                                                > Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight
                                                end and Dave
                                                Thomas has
                                                > spent too much time injured for me to feel
                                                confident. Similar
                                                with Ben
                                                > Watson. Both are worth keeping but
                                                neither is the blocking tight
                                                end this
                                                > team so well appreciates and
                                                misses with the absence of Brady and
                                                Graham. I
                                                > think we'll see us
                                                pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                                >
                                                > Go
                                                Pats!
                                                >
                                                Zip
                                                >

                                              • George
                                                ***** I m with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the extended dances, and elaborate shows that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted,
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
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                                                  ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate the "extended" dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also, as Randy noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless situation is way off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a show of emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
                                                   
                                                  ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high five" a teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked Troy Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the expression of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation", I'm for it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play, offensively or defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my fist on the chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally, as on a game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist toward the ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope that all players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see them express it.
                                                   
                                                  ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me, too unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the opponent. It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL teams is very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it more". I believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows that a player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a win for a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should celebrate a big play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next play.
                                                   
                                                  ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff. Right now, I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration; while ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just too subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have to continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our personal standards, I guess. :-)
                                                   

                                                  George
                                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                   


                                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:24 AM
                                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                  Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                                  "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                                  Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.
                                                   
                                                  Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 
                                                   
                                                  The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.
                                                   
                                                  The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.
                                                   
                                                  Go Pats!
                                                  Zip
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: Jan Smyth
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                  I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                                  George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                                  ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                                   
                                                  ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                                   
                                                  ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.
                                                   
                                                  George
                                                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                   


                                                  From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                                  To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                  Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                  I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.
                                                   
                                                  He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.
                                                   
                                                  As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                                   
                                                  I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                                   
                                                  Go Pats!
                                                  Zip
                                                   


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                                                  Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                                • George
                                                  ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that group
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    ***** That Maroney situation points out what I said about the difficulty in legislating this stuff, Frank. The rule says something to the effect that "group celebrations" are not allowed. That was put in to stop the foolish "choreographed routines" that had begun to spring up: rolling the ball into teammates set up as bowling pins; forming a ring for a guy to roll the dice for a winner; and a few other time-wasting, "look at us" routines. I'd like to see them put some words together that somehow identify "formal, rehearsed routines" as illegal, and allow guys to come together for some simple slaps and hugs, etc.
                                                     
                                                    ***** Oh, and, obviously, anything that is directed at the opponent is a no-no. Celebrate your achievement. Don't taunt the opponent!
                                                     

                                                    George
                                                    An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                     


                                                    From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank
                                                    Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:20 AM
                                                    To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [patriotzip] Re: Moss Contract

                                                    I agree. I forget who it was that originally said, "Act like you've
                                                    been there before". But a TD is certainly something worth celebrating.
                                                    I like when players celebrate (momentarily) with their teammates;
                                                    Maroney celebrating with his O-line after they opened a nice hole for
                                                    him, for instance. But that seems to be what the rules frown upon
                                                    most. It's celebrations like the Bettis comment earlier that ticks me
                                                    off. You get a first down, and your team is down by 3 TD's. What's to
                                                    celebrate.

                                                    It's interesting that when Brady throws a 40yd TD pass, he celebrates
                                                    with his O-line, but they never throw a flag for that. But if the
                                                    receiver celebrates with his teammates in the EZ - 15 yds on the
                                                    kickoff. Go figure.

                                                    fdb

                                                    --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, Jan Smyth <jansmyth001@ ...> wrote:

                                                    >
                                                    > Call me old
                                                    fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter
                                                    Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref
                                                    after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming
                                                    manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many
                                                    teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those
                                                    moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.
                                                    >
                                                    > "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .> wrote:

                                                    > Actually
                                                    I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less
                                                    of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this
                                                    league. I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the
                                                    Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.' Still
                                                    it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of
                                                    others. Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss
                                                    in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual
                                                    moonings which inspired it). The only 'celebration I liked other
                                                    than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick
                                                    and that was a bit ago.
                                                    >
                                                    > Celebrate the touchdowns with
                                                    your team and otherwise act like
                                                    you've been there.
                                                    >
                                                    > The
                                                    most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy
                                                    in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game
                                                    they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he
                                                    was missing something pretty important.
                                                    >
                                                    > The other team celebration I most appreciate is the
                                                    Lambeau leap
                                                    which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is
                                                    exactly what football is about to me.
                                                    >
                                                    > Go
                                                    Pats!
                                                    > Zip
                                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > From: Jan Smyth
                                                    > To:
                                                    href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM
                                                    > Subject: RE:
                                                    [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > I just wish Moss wasn't
                                                    such a hot dog.
                                                    >
                                                    > George <patswingr@. ..> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team,
                                                    the
                                                    pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very
                                                    reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy
                                                    to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in
                                                    particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less
                                                    exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the
                                                    season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to
                                                    scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch
                                                    shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to
                                                    have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition
                                                    of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.
                                                    >
                                                    > ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on
                                                    the
                                                    need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.
                                                    >
                                                    > ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement
                                                    on the defensive improvement we need.
                                                    >
                                                    > George
                                                    > An imperfect
                                                    fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                    > From:
                                                    href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                    > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03
                                                    AM
                                                    > To:
                                                    href="mailto:patriotzip%40yahoogroups.com">patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                    >
                                                    Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both
                                                    sides fantastically. The dollars are lower than he could have
                                                    received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical. 9 Million a
                                                    year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably
                                                    less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New
                                                    England in the first place.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we
                                                    are willing to risk and trust in him a bit. Ithink he'll come
                                                    through fine.
                                                    >
                                                    > As
                                                    for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's
                                                    up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do. There
                                                    are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must
                                                    ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is
                                                    going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.
                                                    >
                                                    > I want Gaffney back and then will feel good
                                                    about most of
                                                    our offense. With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking
                                                    tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to
                                                    feel confident. Similar with Ben Watson. Both are worth keeping
                                                    but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well
                                                    appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham. I
                                                    think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.
                                                    >
                                                    > Go Pats!
                                                    > Zip
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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                                                  • George
                                                    ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 5, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      ***** I saw Jim Brown play many times, w-a-a-a-a-y back when I was a Giants fan, in the pre-AFL days. I never saw him do anything that even vaguely resembled celebrating. In a way, it pissed me off as much as a dance would today. Most guys would at least get up and put the fist in the air, or bump with a teammate. Brown's body language always seemed to say; "Making a big play on you guys is no big deal. I can do it anytime I want." ... And, of course, he was right! :-)
                                                       
                                                      ***** Jim Brown was the first player for whom I ever had a tremendous respect and appreciation of talent, despite the fact that he played for "the enemy". Got a long list of them since then.
                                                       

                                                      George
                                                      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                                                       


                                                      From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
                                                      Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:51 AM
                                                      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                      I was thinking the same thing that you were Don, that Walter Payton DID celebrate in the end zone--also most likely did it against us in the 1986 Super Bowl. He very well could have been one of the original celebrating types?
                                                      I don't remember Jim Brown either.
                                                       
                                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:10 PM
                                                      Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                      Walter Payton did celebrate sometimes.  He would hold the ball aloft above his head some times and there was his scissor kick as well, that I do remember.  It wasn’t a big dance number but it was celebrating none the less.  I’m not old enough to remember Jim Brown so I can’t say one way or the other.  Frankly, I don’t care if they celebrate a little or where they celebrate.  I only care if they are self promoting when they do it, it’s a team sport and without the rest of the team they wouldn’t score any touchdowns.

                                                      Don


                                                      From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of Jan Smyth
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:24 PM
                                                      To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                      Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the class of a Walter Payton or a Jim Brown -- men who simply handed the ball to the ref after they scored and ran off the field in a wonderfully unassuming manner. The stupid dance Moss often does -- as do many players on many teams -- brings the sport down to the level of wrestling at those moments. I find it an embarrassment to the game.

                                                      "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:

                                                      Actually I found Moss a pleasant surprise in that he was far less of a hot dog than in his past and less than many others in this league.  I prefer the team oriented celebrations to his mocking the Eagle dance or that strange hand spreading motion 'dance.'  Still it's all better than the Deion Branch 'seizure' or the variety of others.  Worst are the TO urinating on the Star he now covets, Moss in the mocking Mooning at Green Bay (despite the GB fans actual moonings which inspired it).  The only 'celebration I liked other than the team one was the Brisby Football into a spinning top trick and that was a bit ago.

                                                      Celebrate the touchdowns with your team and otherwise act like you've been there. 

                                                      The most humorous was Jerome Bettis who I thought a fantastic guy in person but when he'd rumble for a two yard first down in a game they were trailing by 21 andhe did his dance I just had to think he was missing something pretty important.

                                                      The other team celebration I most appreciate is the Lambeau leap which has an air of celebrating a touchdown with the fans and that is exactly what football is about to me.

                                                      Go Pats!

                                                      Zip

                                                      ----- Original Message -----

                                                      From: Jan Smyth

                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:26 PM

                                                      Subject: RE: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                      I just wish Moss wasn't such a hot dog.

                                                      George <patswingr@yahoo. com> wrote:

                                                      !

                                                      ***** Considering what Moss brings to this team, the pressure he puts on opposing defenses, I consider this a very reasonable contract, in today's NFL economy. I am extremely happy to have him back. I do, however, hope that the team, and, in particular, Brady, learn to use him more effectively, and less exclusively, that they did over the last several games of the season. Why not move him around more with motion, etc., to scramble the double coverage, and give him more opportunities to catch shorter passes, and get some YAC? Anyway, bottom line, great to have Moss on the team again! By the way, I also like the addition of another good STs guy, Sam Aiken, for the #4 or #5 WR spot.

                                                      ***** I also agree on Gaffney, Randy; as well as on the need for a strong blocking TE. We'll see what happens there.

                                                      ***** But I am more anxious to see some positive movement on the defensive improvement we need.

                                                      George
                                                      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!


                                                      From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                                                      Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:03 AM
                                                      To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                                                      Subject: [patriotzip] Moss Contract

                                                      I'm happy with the contract, I really think it suits both sides fantastically.  The dollars are lower than he could have received elsewhere with more guaranteed than typical.  9 Million a year with 12-15 Million guaranteed is a nice deal but still notably less than the guaranteed money he walked away from to come to New England in the first place.

                                                      He showed he was true to his words here and we showed we are willing to risk and trust in him a bit.  Ithink he'll come through fine.

                                                      As for Brady paying attention to all his options, that's up to Tom Brady to play his game as he normally would do.  There are many factors including an offensive coordinator who must ensure he game plans for various opponent options and takes what is going to make the offense the most effective for winning the game.

                                                      I want Gaffney back and then will feel good about most of our offense.  With Kyle Brady gone we do need another blocking tight end and Dave Thomas has spent too much time injured for me to feel confident.  Similar with Ben Watson.  Both are worth keeping but neither is the blocking tight end this team so well appreciates and misses with the absence of Brady and Graham.  I think we'll see us pick up a free agent TE if not one in the draft.

                                                      Go Pats!

                                                      Zip


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                                                    • Dave Levine
                                                      * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and running to the bench. No
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 7, 2008
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                                                        * I actually like what Moss does now. It is not a dance and is very
                                                        unassuming. A simple breaststroke move, dropping the ball, and
                                                        running to the bench. No dance, no showing off, no showing someone
                                                        up.

                                                        * The penalty late in the year was not for excessive celebration. It
                                                        was for a team celebration. For the first time all year, Moss did
                                                        something other than the "split the D" thing and did a little jig.
                                                        Maroney was the idiot who danced along with him garnering the penalty.

                                                        * On a side note, Payton did celebrate by holding the ball up in the
                                                        air for a few seconds and then dropping it or handing it to the ref.
                                                        No more than what Moss does this year. He was showing everyone that
                                                        he was the greatest. The crime is that he never got to do it in the
                                                        SB against us. I don't mind losing to the Bears in the game. I mind
                                                        that the fat Fridge was the one who scored instead of Sweetness.

                                                        * Dave


                                                        --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "George" <patswingr@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > ***** I'm with you about 95% on that, Jan. I, too, hate
                                                        the "extended"
                                                        > dances, and elaborate "shows" that some of these guys put on. Also,
                                                        as Randy
                                                        > noted, celebrating a First Down in a relatively meaningless
                                                        situation is way
                                                        > off the "team" line to me. However, I do applaud and appreciate a
                                                        show of
                                                        > emotion. (I guess *I* have to, right?) ;-)
                                                        >
                                                        > ***** I expect a "fist in the air", or a race to embrace or "high
                                                        five" a
                                                        > teammate. I also agree with Randy about the "Lambeau Leap". I liked
                                                        Troy
                                                        > Brown's "First Down" sign on KEY plays of a drive. As long as the
                                                        expression
                                                        > of joy is clearly spontaneous, and "appropriate to the situation",
                                                        I'm for
                                                        > it. I watch games alone. But when the Pats make a big play,
                                                        offensively or
                                                        > defensively, I nearly always let out a shout; sometimes pound my
                                                        fist on the
                                                        > chair, or on my leg (OUCH! Why did I DO that?!); and occasionally,
                                                        as on a
                                                        > game-winning TD, I will leap up out of the chair, driving my fist
                                                        toward the
                                                        > ceiling (fortunately, I'm too short to hit it!). I expect and hope
                                                        that all
                                                        > players feel that kind of emotion after a big play, and love to see
                                                        them
                                                        > express it.
                                                        >
                                                        > ***** The old "hand the ball to the ref" following a TD is, to me,
                                                        too
                                                        > unemotional. This game is all about scoring TDs, and stopping the
                                                        opponent.
                                                        > It's often said that the difference between the talent level on NFL
                                                        teams is
                                                        > very small; and the game is often won based upon "who wants it
                                                        more". I
                                                        > believe that. And I believe that a short burst of emotion shows
                                                        that a
                                                        > player "wants it". But that's it. Just as a team should celebrate a
                                                        win for
                                                        > a short time, then move on to the next game; a player should
                                                        celebrate a big
                                                        > play for just a moment, then move on to preparation for the next
                                                        play.
                                                        >
                                                        > ***** Of course, it's almost impossible to legislate this stuff.
                                                        Right now,
                                                        > I think they sometimes go too far in squelching player celebration;
                                                        while
                                                        > ignoring some of the stuff that I consider extreme. But it's just
                                                        too
                                                        > subjective to ever get it perfect for everybody. So we'll just have
                                                        to
                                                        > continue to scowl at the guys who over do it, according to our
                                                        personal
                                                        > standards, I guess. :-)
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > George
                                                        > An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
                                                        >
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