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FW: Off The Field

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  • George
    ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He s actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He's actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues I'm in, and, in every way other than his INCREDIBLE HATRED for Bill Belichick, he's a nice guy. (He actually bought some American cat food for my cat, and sent it to me here.) We were becoming pretty close friends until "spygate". Then he exploded with this hatred.
       
      ***** If you have the time, read the messages from the bottom up, and note how he refuses to address anything other than his blanket condemnation of every molecule of Bill Belichick's being!
       
      ***** By the way, if anybody has a copy that you send to me of the article that addressed the "other side" of Belichick a couple of months ago, I'd appreciate it. I'd love to send it to David, just so that he can further demonstrate his refusal to consider any information about Belichick that isn't negative.
       

      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

       


      From: George [mailto:patswingr@...]
      Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:23 PM
      To: 'D. Cohen'
      Subject: RE: Off The Field

      I will, indeed, let it rest. There is no cure for blind hatred. Your attitude toward Belichick is as irrational and blind as Al Qaeda's against the USA.
       
      I honestly wonder, David, how you feel about the people who know Belichick PERSONALLY, and stand by him. I'm sure you're aware of the list of some of his friends. Have you ever read the article that examined the side of him that we never hear of? I'm sure you haven't, because you'd never get beyond the first positive word said about him in any article.
       
      A lot of  people dislike Belichick, to varying degrees. But I tell you with all sincerity that I've never seen anyone who is filled with so much hatred for a person they have never met, other than a mass murderer. Seriously, I have never seen that level of hatred directed toward a person who, at the very worst, has done nothing more damaging to other people than what you've listed as Belichick's "crimes".
       

      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

       


      From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
      Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:24 PM
      To: George
      Subject: Re: Off The Field

      You will never shed the blue tinted lenses.  Belichick is a proven cheater.  Wht others have done or not done is 100% irrelevant.  You never raised children apparently.  When your youngster does something wrong and defends it by saying "well everyone else is doing it", how do you respond?  If you do so similarly to what you state below, then you would be an awful parent.  Belicheat is a miserable, dishonest, cheating thief who stole $1,000,000 of Leon Hess' money, cheated on his marriage, cheated in his professions and is despised around the league for legitimate reasons.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It has everything to do with the biggest scumbag to have hit the NFL, Bill Belichick.  Your blind defense of these pathetic excuse of a human being is embarrassing.  You, of all people, should be furious at what he has done to tarnish the image of the team you so dearly love.  His antics, dishonesty, and cheating, not to mention his attitude have left a stain on all of the Pats accomplishments.  And that opinion is widely held around the league... not just for Jets fans.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It is all about Belichick, who deserves all the flack he is getting.  I am truly sorry that the team you love so much is run by a meglamaniac who is a dishonest cheating bastard.  But it's not my fault.  Blame it on Bill. It is he who has brought this on himself and his team.  I know several honest Pats fans who are furious at him for permanently scarring the teams' accomplishmnets.  You should be too IMHO.  And no, George, BB is not like other NFL coaches.  I doubt that many ior even a few stoop to the dishonest practices he embraces. Please list your ficticious "vast majority" of coaches who cheat like Bill.  You can't.  Because there is no such "vast majority".  What you are saying mirrors Richard Nixon's stupidity withhis ficticious "silent majority".  Fabricated to defend an indefensible position.  Stop being ridiculous and let it rest. 

      George wrote:
      And still, David, not one single word from you to address the comments and admissions made by former coaches regarding the use of videotaping. You are so transparent in your hate-based position on the whole issue that it's sad. Belichick's video taping was NOT an "exclusive" practice, David. He just happened to be the first one prosecuted, or should I say "persecuted", for it. And we all know the reasons why.
       
      I'll say it again, Belichick broke a directive from the NFL Commissioner. That was both arrogant, and a terrible misjudgment of the ego of the new sheriff's determination to make a name for himself. For those errors, he was ordered to pay a very harsh penalty. But you, all like you, are incredibly disingenuous to continue to proclaim that Belichick is a "cheater", while completely ignoring the fact, acknowledged by some who've done it, that the practice of videotaping opponents signals, with the intent of trying to learn something that would give them an advantage, has been going on for years! Years, David! Many, many years!
       
      Now, if you want to rant and rave that "the NFL is a corrupt, cheating organization", go right ahead. But it is patently unfair to single out one man, any one man, and say that he is a "cheater", unless you condemn every coach who has ever used this, or any other surreptitiously obtained information, to try to improve his teams chances for victory. And, in doing so, you must acknowledge that you would be, in fact, condemning the entire league, over the course of its' history.
       
      Despite your deeply ingrained hatred, Bill Belichick is no worse than the vast majority of NFL coaches, or leaders in any other industry in our society. Saying otherwise is petty and unfair, since you can prove no differently; and, further, since some have already admitted to doing the same or similar thing.  
       

      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

       


      From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
      Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:47 PM
      To: George
      Subject: Re: Off The Field

      Why would I discard them as lies?  Belichick is a proven liar.   If anyone is lying, he'd be the first one to suspect.  Really George, take off your blue tinted lenses.  It's not a matter of being "Pats haters".  It's a matter of  finding out just how far Belichick stretched the rules and cheated to get an unfair advantage.  I am truly sorry for all of the good Pats fans who will have to live with the reality that most people outside of  New England regard the Pats faux dynasty as tainted.  You can blame the scumbag headcoach you admire for all of this.  His arrogance was the key to it all.  How pathetic that he singlehandedly tainted almost a decade of solid accomplishment.  It's like a Greek tragedy.  NE fans, while enjoying 3 champioships, have to now pay the price.  There is very little respect for the NE franchise anymore.  It's not because of the success.  It's because of the dishonesty, arrogance and horrific attitude of its headcoach. 

      George wrote:
      I think there's a bit of "delusion" in all sports fans, David. Tens of thousands of fans of other teams feel varying degrees of jealousy and envy about the fact that the Patriots have had so much success, while their teams have not. There's no difference between those feelings, and those of so many baseball fans against the Yankees, during their "invincible" years; basketball fans against the Celtics during theirs; and hockey fans against The Canadiens during theirs. Those fans will instantly seize on any opportunity to damn the champion. That is simply fact.
       
      You know that most of the Pats haters were praising Goodell to the heavens when he found Belichick guilty, and imposed the most severe punishment in the history of the league. Goodell could do no wrong in their eyes, at that point. Now that Goodell has come out and said "That's all there is", those same fans are jumping on the "cover up" bandwagon, because they want more of Belichick's hide. Until Bill Belichick is strung up by his heels, gutted, and left to bleed out, those fans won't be happy.
       
      And Jets fans, of course, lead the pack, since, whether they admit it or not, the vast majority of them will be pissed off to infinity over the fact that "the cheater" didn't stay on to coach THEIR team to 3 Super Bowl wins. And that, my friend, is the honest truth on that issue!
       
      If you've really kept up with all of the continuing media hype on the whole issue of videotaping, you certainly know that everything I said about past "offenses" by other teams is true. You know that the admissions and statements by the former coaches I named are accurate. Yet you make no reference to any of that. Should others be punished for past "cheating", or not, David? If not, they it is, by any definition, a witch hunt to after just one guy. How can not acknowledge that?
       
      In any case, remember that the investigation that Specter is calling for is specifically addressed to a Goodell "cover up"; NOT specifically at what Bill Belichick may or may not have done. We who are outside the circle have no idea what may actually lie under the leaves covering the hole where Goodell buried any "evidence" that may exist of violations by Belichick, or anyone else. Again, according a lot of respected former coaches, there's a hell of a lot more to video taping violations than anything Bill Belichick has done.
       
      And, of course, I'm sure you read the statements from Belichick and Scott Pioli regarding the whole "Rams practice" crap. I'm equally certain that you immediately discarded them as lies. So be it.
       

      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

       


      From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:21 PM
      To: George
      Subject: Re: Off The Field

      Hardly a witch hunt.  What the Pats have done is a major blow to the integrity of the game.  It should be investigated.   Belichick  has a passion for cheating to give his already good team the extra boost .  Sorry, but delusional homer Pats fans will never be able to see this.  Goodell's cover up may never be exposed, but it will be investigated.  And I despise Arlen Specter too!

      George wrote:
       However ...
      
      "Yet, in 1953, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1922 decision and handed the
      ball back to Congress, observing that "in Federal Baseball...this Court held
      that...professional baseball...was not within the scope of the federal
      antitrust laws. Congress had the ruling under consideration but has not seen
      fit to bring such business under these laws by legislation.... We think that
      if there are evils in this field which now warrant application to it of the
      antitrust laws it should be done by legislation.
      
      Baseball's exemption became still more anomalous in 1957 when the Supreme
      Court ruled, in Radovich v. NFL, that the National Football League is
      subject to antitrust statutes."
      
      " The National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the
      National Hockey League, all without antitrust exemptions, ..."
      
      (Source:
      http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2003/fall_competitiveness_zimbalist.aspx)
      
      Next excuse, David? :-)  It's a witch hunt, David. Pure and simple. Jimmy
      Johnson, Al Davis, and Bill Parcells, to name just three, have all admitted
      to doing the same thing in the past. If the Patriots should be subject to
      investigation and further punishment for this activity, to the extreme
      suggested by some that they be stripped of previous Super Bowl titles, then
      so should the Cowboys, Raiders, and Giants; as well as any other previous
      Super Bowl teams found guilty of violating an NFL rule, such as the SF
      49ers, who violated the Salary Cap rules - which clearly provides a more
      tangible, and longer lasting, "competitive advantage" than taping a teams
      defensive hand signals. 
      
      The Patriots were guilty of violating the specific directive of the "new
      sheriff in town". He reacted hastily, out of anger and wounded ego. Even he,
      at the time, declared the violation as such, and NOT as "cheating". Taping
      of signals from other locations is not forbidden, and is very common, if not
      unanimous. If Belichick (who, while he may be arrogant, is certainly not
      stupid) was doing something that he thought would be a big deal, why did he
      have his man recording out in the open? Why not with a hidden camera in his
      damn tie tack, or something?  Goodell, and the entire NFL, now know that he
      opened a HUGE can of worms that may now taint the entire league. The best
      action for all in this would have been for him to have the camera guy
      removed, and make a private, "very firm", phone call to Belichick. But that
      wouldn't have gotten him the public recognition of HIS authority that he
      wanted.  
      
      In addition, I seriously doubt that Mangini expected so strong a reaction
      from Goodell. He wanted to put a burr under BB's saddle, to get back at him
      for "disowning" and snubbing him when he left the Patriots. My guess is that
      he's squirming like a snitch in a prison these days, knowing that the rest
      of the "inmates" would like, at the very least, to get at him in the shower
      with socks filled with bars of soap!
      
      
      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! 
      
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: D Cohen [mailto:tutor@...] 
      Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
      To: George
      Cc: George
      Subject: Re: Off The Field
      
      When Congress grants an anti-trust exemption and it is signed into law, then
      any fishy behavior is ripe for investigation.  Period.
      
      George wrote:
        
      ***** One of my email contacts here noted that the Patriots, and the 
      NFL, will now have to face the prospect of a very messy Senate hearing 
      on the 'spygate' issue. I want to share my thoughts on that with all of
          
      you.
        
      Regarding the potential Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, I consider 
      that ludicrous to the point of being nearly criminal itself. The 
      activities of the NFL are NOT a matter for the attention of the US 
      Senate! How can anyone even consider wasting the time and attention of 
      our government, not to mention the money, on the issue of whether or 
      not a football team "cheated", or the league "covered it up"?!
      
      The NFL is treated by the government as a single entity. They share 
      revenue.
      They are, in fact, a single organization, with individual "profit centers"
      that operate with a specified degree of independence. If one team 
      violates a rule - ANY RULE - that is a matter for the NFL to address 
      within its'
      organizational walls. It is no more a matter for public scrutiny than 
      would be a rule violation by one part of any business against another 
      part of that business.
      
      In my opinion, if there is a thorough investigation, it will reveal 
      that the same, or similar "rule violations" have been committed by 
      many NFL teams over the years; and that the NFL, with the knowledge 
      and acceptance of the teams in the league, has swept all of it under 
      the rug. The NFL will come out with a stink that will have the media 
      in an absolutely orgasmic frenzy over all the print, audio, and video 
      bullsh*t it can generate about it.
      And
      guess what? Nobody will care. The effect upon the attention of the 
      fans to the game will be virtually unaffected. The fans will continue 
      to flock to the stadiums, and tune their TVs to the games. The money 
      will continue to flow from the fans to the teams and the league. And 
      most fans will have another reason to be disgusted with the media; 
      which, also, will not change a thing.
      
      The whole issue is a waste of time, both within, and outside of the NFL.
      Dozens of present and former NFL people have made it very clear that 
      most, if not all, NFL teams have taken and used video tape that was 
      obtained in a manner that violated league rules. All of them have used 
      methods within the rules to try to "steal the signals" of opposing 
      teams. The fact is that the Patriots were not penalized for 
      "cheating", they were penalized for violating the directive of the 
      Commissioner that forbid taping in that manner. It was, as many NFL 
      people now state both publicly and privately, an error in judgment by 
      the Commissioner to open this Pandora's Box. He was motivated by his 
      ego and arrogance to stomp on Belichick for daring to defy his 
      authority.
      
      But, agree or disagree with any or all of that last paragraph, I don't 
      understand how anyone can believe that this is a matter for the time, 
      attention, and money of the US government!
      
      
      George
      An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
      
      
      
      
          
      
      
      
      
        



    • George
      ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He s actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He's actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues I'm in, and, in every way other than his INCREDIBLE HATRED for Bill Belichick, he's a nice guy. (He actually bought some American cat food for my cat, and sent it to me here.) We were becoming pretty close friends until "spygate". Then he exploded with this hatred.
         
        ***** If you have the time, read the messages from the bottom up, and note how he refuses to address anything other than his blanket condemnation of every molecule of Bill Belichick's being!
         
        ***** By the way, if anybody has a copy that you send to me of the article that addressed the "other side" of Belichick a couple of months ago, I'd appreciate it. I'd love to send it to David, just so that he can further demonstrate his refusal to consider any information about Belichick that isn't negative.
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: George [mailto:patswingr@...]
        Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:23 PM
        To: 'D. Cohen'
        Subject: RE: Off The Field

        I will, indeed, let it rest. There is no cure for blind hatred. Your attitude toward Belichick is as irrational and blind as Al Qaeda's against the USA.
         
        I honestly wonder, David, how you feel about the people who know Belichick PERSONALLY, and stand by him. I'm sure you're aware of the list of some of his friends. Have you ever read the article that examined the side of him that we never hear of? I'm sure you haven't, because you'd never get beyond the first positive word said about him in any article.
         
        A lot of  people dislike Belichick, to varying degrees. But I tell you with all sincerity that I've never seen anyone who is filled with so much hatred for a person they have never met, other than a mass murderer. Seriously, I have never seen that level of hatred directed toward a person who, at the very worst, has done nothing more damaging to other people than what you've listed as Belichick's "crimes".
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
        Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:24 PM
        To: George
        Subject: Re: Off The Field

        You will never shed the blue tinted lenses.  Belichick is a proven cheater.  Wht others have done or not done is 100% irrelevant.  You never raised children apparently.  When your youngster does something wrong and defends it by saying "well everyone else is doing it", how do you respond?  If you do so similarly to what you state below, then you would be an awful parent.  Belicheat is a miserable, dishonest, cheating thief who stole $1,000,000 of Leon Hess' money, cheated on his marriage, cheated in his professions and is despised around the league for legitimate reasons.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It has everything to do with the biggest scumbag to have hit the NFL, Bill Belichick.  Your blind defense of these pathetic excuse of a human being is embarrassing.  You, of all people, should be furious at what he has done to tarnish the image of the team you so dearly love.  His antics, dishonesty, and cheating, not to mention his attitude have left a stain on all of the Pats accomplishments.  And that opinion is widely held around the league... not just for Jets fans.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It is all about Belichick, who deserves all the flack he is getting.  I am truly sorry that the team you love so much is run by a meglamaniac who is a dishonest cheating bastard.  But it's not my fault.  Blame it on Bill. It is he who has brought this on himself and his team.  I know several honest Pats fans who are furious at him for permanently scarring the teams' accomplishmnets.  You should be too IMHO.  And no, George, BB is not like other NFL coaches.  I doubt that many ior even a few stoop to the dishonest practices he embraces. Please list your ficticious "vast majority" of coaches who cheat like Bill.  You can't.  Because there is no such "vast majority".  What you are saying mirrors Richard Nixon's stupidity withhis ficticious "silent majority".  Fabricated to defend an indefensible position.  Stop being ridiculous and let it rest. 

        George wrote:
        And still, David, not one single word from you to address the comments and admissions made by former coaches regarding the use of videotaping. You are so transparent in your hate-based position on the whole issue that it's sad. Belichick's video taping was NOT an "exclusive" practice, David. He just happened to be the first one prosecuted, or should I say "persecuted", for it. And we all know the reasons why.
         
        I'll say it again, Belichick broke a directive from the NFL Commissioner. That was both arrogant, and a terrible misjudgment of the ego of the new sheriff's determination to make a name for himself. For those errors, he was ordered to pay a very harsh penalty. But you, all like you, are incredibly disingenuous to continue to proclaim that Belichick is a "cheater", while completely ignoring the fact, acknowledged by some who've done it, that the practice of videotaping opponents signals, with the intent of trying to learn something that would give them an advantage, has been going on for years! Years, David! Many, many years!
         
        Now, if you want to rant and rave that "the NFL is a corrupt, cheating organization", go right ahead. But it is patently unfair to single out one man, any one man, and say that he is a "cheater", unless you condemn every coach who has ever used this, or any other surreptitiously obtained information, to try to improve his teams chances for victory. And, in doing so, you must acknowledge that you would be, in fact, condemning the entire league, over the course of its' history.
         
        Despite your deeply ingrained hatred, Bill Belichick is no worse than the vast majority of NFL coaches, or leaders in any other industry in our society. Saying otherwise is petty and unfair, since you can prove no differently; and, further, since some have already admitted to doing the same or similar thing.  
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:47 PM
        To: George
        Subject: Re: Off The Field

        Why would I discard them as lies?  Belichick is a proven liar.   If anyone is lying, he'd be the first one to suspect.  Really George, take off your blue tinted lenses.  It's not a matter of being "Pats haters".  It's a matter of  finding out just how far Belichick stretched the rules and cheated to get an unfair advantage.  I am truly sorry for all of the good Pats fans who will have to live with the reality that most people outside of  New England regard the Pats faux dynasty as tainted.  You can blame the scumbag headcoach you admire for all of this.  His arrogance was the key to it all.  How pathetic that he singlehandedly tainted almost a decade of solid accomplishment.  It's like a Greek tragedy.  NE fans, while enjoying 3 champioships, have to now pay the price.  There is very little respect for the NE franchise anymore.  It's not because of the success.  It's because of the dishonesty, arrogance and horrific attitude of its headcoach. 

        George wrote:
        I think there's a bit of "delusion" in all sports fans, David. Tens of thousands of fans of other teams feel varying degrees of jealousy and envy about the fact that the Patriots have had so much success, while their teams have not. There's no difference between those feelings, and those of so many baseball fans against the Yankees, during their "invincible" years; basketball fans against the Celtics during theirs; and hockey fans against The Canadiens during theirs. Those fans will instantly seize on any opportunity to damn the champion. That is simply fact.
         
        You know that most of the Pats haters were praising Goodell to the heavens when he found Belichick guilty, and imposed the most severe punishment in the history of the league. Goodell could do no wrong in their eyes, at that point. Now that Goodell has come out and said "That's all there is", those same fans are jumping on the "cover up" bandwagon, because they want more of Belichick's hide. Until Bill Belichick is strung up by his heels, gutted, and left to bleed out, those fans won't be happy.
         
        And Jets fans, of course, lead the pack, since, whether they admit it or not, the vast majority of them will be pissed off to infinity over the fact that "the cheater" didn't stay on to coach THEIR team to 3 Super Bowl wins. And that, my friend, is the honest truth on that issue!
         
        If you've really kept up with all of the continuing media hype on the whole issue of videotaping, you certainly know that everything I said about past "offenses" by other teams is true. You know that the admissions and statements by the former coaches I named are accurate. Yet you make no reference to any of that. Should others be punished for past "cheating", or not, David? If not, they it is, by any definition, a witch hunt to after just one guy. How can not acknowledge that?
         
        In any case, remember that the investigation that Specter is calling for is specifically addressed to a Goodell "cover up"; NOT specifically at what Bill Belichick may or may not have done. We who are outside the circle have no idea what may actually lie under the leaves covering the hole where Goodell buried any "evidence" that may exist of violations by Belichick, or anyone else. Again, according a lot of respected former coaches, there's a hell of a lot more to video taping violations than anything Bill Belichick has done.
         
        And, of course, I'm sure you read the statements from Belichick and Scott Pioli regarding the whole "Rams practice" crap. I'm equally certain that you immediately discarded them as lies. So be it.
         

        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

         


        From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:21 PM
        To: George
        Subject: Re: Off The Field

        Hardly a witch hunt.  What the Pats have done is a major blow to the integrity of the game.  It should be investigated.   Belichick  has a passion for cheating to give his already good team the extra boost .  Sorry, but delusional homer Pats fans will never be able to see this.  Goodell's cover up may never be exposed, but it will be investigated.  And I despise Arlen Specter too!

        George wrote:
         However ...
        
        "Yet, in 1953, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1922 decision and handed the
        ball back to Congress, observing that "in Federal Baseball...this Court held
        that...professional baseball...was not within the scope of the federal
        antitrust laws. Congress had the ruling under consideration but has not seen
        fit to bring such business under these laws by legislation.... We think that
        if there are evils in this field which now warrant application to it of the
        antitrust laws it should be done by legislation.
        
        Baseball's exemption became still more anomalous in 1957 when the Supreme
        Court ruled, in Radovich v. NFL, that the National Football League is
        subject to antitrust statutes."
        
        " The National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the
        National Hockey League, all without antitrust exemptions, ..."
        
        (Source:
        http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2003/fall_competitiveness_zimbalist.aspx)
        
        Next excuse, David? :-)  It's a witch hunt, David. Pure and simple. Jimmy
        Johnson, Al Davis, and Bill Parcells, to name just three, have all admitted
        to doing the same thing in the past. If the Patriots should be subject to
        investigation and further punishment for this activity, to the extreme
        suggested by some that they be stripped of previous Super Bowl titles, then
        so should the Cowboys, Raiders, and Giants; as well as any other previous
        Super Bowl teams found guilty of violating an NFL rule, such as the SF
        49ers, who violated the Salary Cap rules - which clearly provides a more
        tangible, and longer lasting, "competitive advantage" than taping a teams
        defensive hand signals. 
        
        The Patriots were guilty of violating the specific directive of the "new
        sheriff in town". He reacted hastily, out of anger and wounded ego. Even he,
        at the time, declared the violation as such, and NOT as "cheating". Taping
        of signals from other locations is not forbidden, and is very common, if not
        unanimous. If Belichick (who, while he may be arrogant, is certainly not
        stupid) was doing something that he thought would be a big deal, why did he
        have his man recording out in the open? Why not with a hidden camera in his
        damn tie tack, or something?  Goodell, and the entire NFL, now know that he
        opened a HUGE can of worms that may now taint the entire league. The best
        action for all in this would have been for him to have the camera guy
        removed, and make a private, "very firm", phone call to Belichick. But that
        wouldn't have gotten him the public recognition of HIS authority that he
        wanted.  
        
        In addition, I seriously doubt that Mangini expected so strong a reaction
        from Goodell. He wanted to put a burr under BB's saddle, to get back at him
        for "disowning" and snubbing him when he left the Patriots. My guess is that
        he's squirming like a snitch in a prison these days, knowing that the rest
        of the "inmates" would like, at the very least, to get at him in the shower
        with socks filled with bars of soap!
        
        
        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! 
        
        
        -----Original Message-----
        From: D Cohen [mailto:tutor@...] 
        Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
        To: George
        Cc: George
        Subject: Re: Off The Field
        
        When Congress grants an anti-trust exemption and it is signed into law, then
        any fishy behavior is ripe for investigation.  Period.
        
        George wrote:
          
        ***** One of my email contacts here noted that the Patriots, and the 
        NFL, will now have to face the prospect of a very messy Senate hearing 
        on the 'spygate' issue. I want to share my thoughts on that with all of
            
        you.
          
        Regarding the potential Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, I consider 
        that ludicrous to the point of being nearly criminal itself. The 
        activities of the NFL are NOT a matter for the attention of the US 
        Senate! How can anyone even consider wasting the time and attention of 
        our government, not to mention the money, on the issue of whether or 
        not a football team "cheated", or the league "covered it up"?!
        
        The NFL is treated by the government as a single entity. They share 
        revenue.
        They are, in fact, a single organization, with individual "profit centers"
        that operate with a specified degree of independence. If one team 
        violates a rule - ANY RULE - that is a matter for the NFL to address 
        within its'
        organizational walls. It is no more a matter for public scrutiny than 
        would be a rule violation by one part of any business against another 
        part of that business.
        
        In my opinion, if there is a thorough investigation, it will reveal 
        that the same, or similar "rule violations" have been committed by 
        many NFL teams over the years; and that the NFL, with the knowledge 
        and acceptance of the teams in the league, has swept all of it under 
        the rug. The NFL will come out with a stink that will have the media 
        in an absolutely orgasmic frenzy over all the print, audio, and video 
        bullsh*t it can generate about it.
        And
        guess what? Nobody will care. The effect upon the attention of the 
        fans to the game will be virtually unaffected. The fans will continue 
        to flock to the stadiums, and tune their TVs to the games. The money 
        will continue to flow from the fans to the teams and the league. And 
        most fans will have another reason to be disgusted with the media; 
        which, also, will not change a thing.
        
        The whole issue is a waste of time, both within, and outside of the NFL.
        Dozens of present and former NFL people have made it very clear that 
        most, if not all, NFL teams have taken and used video tape that was 
        obtained in a manner that violated league rules. All of them have used 
        methods within the rules to try to "steal the signals" of opposing 
        teams. The fact is that the Patriots were not penalized for 
        "cheating", they were penalized for violating the directive of the 
        Commissioner that forbid taping in that manner. It was, as many NFL 
        people now state both publicly and privately, an error in judgment by 
        the Commissioner to open this Pandora's Box. He was motivated by his 
        ego and arrogance to stomp on Belichick for daring to defy his 
        authority.
        
        But, agree or disagree with any or all of that last paragraph, I don't 
        understand how anyone can believe that this is a matter for the time, 
        attention, and money of the US government!
        
        
        George
        An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
        
        
        
        
            
        
        
        
        
          



      • RandyZ. Pierce
        Hey George, I honestly only read so far and then just bailed. I hear similar from several folks and it has just become something for which I ve better uses of
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 1, 2008
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          Hey George,
           
          I honestly only read so far and then just bailed.  I hear similar from several folks and it has just become something for which I've better uses of my time.  Some folks are going to have his opinion and I can honestly understand how they get there.  He's misguided in my mind and ludicrously unreasonable about a few points but the fact is there's just enough negative earned by Bellichick and the Pats recently that I can understand it.  Bellichick did ignore a rule and as minimal as I view that ultimate offense it was confirmation on all the attitude issues he does sustain in approach to the game.  Extra-maritally I have no 'proof' but I do acknowledge the evidence isn't so good for BB - that says something about his home relationship sadly as well and no doubt I've heard him tell some pretty bold ones in the interest of advancing this team.  His field general approach is generally unmatched but it comes with some less savory humanitarian aspects.  I dislike Tony Dungy personally and it's for less crimes than BB for the most part so I can understand how a fan of another team could get so emotionally invested as to lose his full ability to reason. 
           
          I'm glad to let it go with the strongly negative folks and to discuss it with open minded or commiserating Pats fans.
           
          This year I believe will be the first year I totally buy into One game at a time not just for the lip service of past years but because mentally and emotionally I need the one game mantra - there's a subtle and wise psychology there and it is going to benefit me I think.
           
          We'll see :)
           
          I haven't used google to find you the "Under the Hoodie" article but suspect it's still out there.
           
          Today has a few things on the docket but I'll look if you haven't found it by end of weekend - cool?
           
          Go Pats!
          Zip
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: George
          Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:29 AM
          Subject: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

          ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He's actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues I'm in, and, in every way other than his INCREDIBLE HATRED for Bill Belichick, he's a nice guy. (He actually bought some American cat food for my cat, and sent it to me here.) We were becoming pretty close friends until "spygate". Then he exploded with this hatred.
           
          ***** If you have the time, read the messages from the bottom up, and note how he refuses to address anything other than his blanket condemnation of every molecule of Bill Belichick's being!
           
          ***** By the way, if anybody has a copy that you send to me of the article that addressed the "other side" of Belichick a couple of months ago, I'd appreciate it. I'd love to send it to David, just so that he can further demonstrate his refusal to consider any information about Belichick that isn't negative.
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: George [mailto:patswingr@ yahoo.com]
          Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:23 PM
          To: 'D. Cohen'
          Subject: RE: Off The Field

          I will, indeed, let it rest. There is no cure for blind hatred. Your attitude toward Belichick is as irrational and blind as Al Qaeda's against the USA.
           
          I honestly wonder, David, how you feel about the people who know Belichick PERSONALLY, and stand by him. I'm sure you're aware of the list of some of his friends. Have you ever read the article that examined the side of him that we never hear of? I'm sure you haven't, because you'd never get beyond the first positive word said about him in any article.
           
          A lot of  people dislike Belichick, to varying degrees. But I tell you with all sincerity that I've never seen anyone who is filled with so much hatred for a person they have never met, other than a mass murderer. Seriously, I have never seen that level of hatred directed toward a person who, at the very worst, has done nothing more damaging to other people than what you've listed as Belichick's "crimes".
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
          Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:24 PM
          To: George
          Subject: Re: Off The Field

          You will never shed the blue tinted lenses.  Belichick is a proven cheater.  Wht others have done or not done is 100% irrelevant.  You never raised children apparently.  When your youngster does something wrong and defends it by saying "well everyone else is doing it", how do you respond?  If you do so similarly to what you state below, then you would be an awful parent.  Belicheat is a miserable, dishonest, cheating thief who stole $1,000,000 of Leon Hess' money, cheated on his marriage, cheated in his professions and is despised around the league for legitimate reasons.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It has everything to do with the biggest scumbag to have hit the NFL, Bill Belichick.  Your blind defense of these pathetic excuse of a human being is embarrassing.  You, of all people, should be furious at what he has done to tarnish the image of the team you so dearly love.  His antics, dishonesty, and cheating, not to mention his attitude have left a stain on all of the Pats accomplishments.  And that opinion is widely held around the league... not just for Jets fans.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It is all about Belichick, who deserves all the flack he is getting.  I am truly sorry that the team you love so much is run by a meglamaniac who is a dishonest cheating bastard.  But it's not my fault.  Blame it on Bill. It is he who has brought this on himself and his team.  I know several honest Pats fans who are furious at him for permanently scarring the teams' accomplishmnets.  You should be too IMHO.  And no, George, BB is not like other NFL coaches.  I doubt that many ior even a few stoop to the dishonest practices he embraces. Please list your ficticious "vast majority" of coaches who cheat like Bill.  You can't.  Because there is no such "vast majority".  What you are saying mirrors Richard Nixon's stupidity withhis ficticious "silent majority".  Fabricated to defend an indefensible position.  Stop being ridiculous and let it rest. 

          George wrote:
          And still, David, not one single word from you to address the comments and admissions made by former coaches regarding the use of videotaping. You are so transparent in your hate-based position on the whole issue that it's sad. Belichick's video taping was NOT an "exclusive" practice, David. He just happened to be the first one prosecuted, or should I say "persecuted" , for it. And we all know the reasons why.
           
          I'll say it again, Belichick broke a directive from the NFL Commissioner. That was both arrogant, and a terrible misjudgment of the ego of the new sheriff's determination to make a name for himself. For those errors, he was ordered to pay a very harsh penalty. But you, all like you, are incredibly disingenuous to continue to proclaim that Belichick is a "cheater", while completely ignoring the fact, acknowledged by some who've done it, that the practice of videotaping opponents signals, with the intent of trying to learn something that would give them an advantage, has been going on for years! Years, David! Many, many years!
           
          Now, if you want to rant and rave that "the NFL is a corrupt, cheating organization" , go right ahead. But it is patently unfair to single out one man, any one man, and say that he is a "cheater", unless you condemn every coach who has ever used this, or any other surreptitiously obtained information, to try to improve his teams chances for victory. And, in doing so, you must acknowledge that you would be, in fact, condemning the entire league, over the course of its' history.
           
          Despite your deeply ingrained hatred, Bill Belichick is no worse than the vast majority of NFL coaches, or leaders in any other industry in our society. Saying otherwise is petty and unfair, since you can prove no differently; and, further, since some have already admitted to doing the same or similar thing.  
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:47 PM
          To: George
          Subject: Re: Off The Field

          Why would I discard them as lies?  Belichick is a proven liar.   If anyone is lying, he'd be the first one to suspect.  Really George, take off your blue tinted lenses.  It's not a matter of being "Pats haters".  It's a matter of  finding out just how far Belichick stretched the rules and cheated to get an unfair advantage.  I am truly sorry for all of the good Pats fans who will have to live with the reality that most people outside of  New England regard the Pats faux dynasty as tainted.  You can blame the scumbag headcoach you admire for all of this.  His arrogance was the key to it all.  How pathetic that he singlehandedly tainted almost a decade of solid accomplishment.  It's like a Greek tragedy.  NE fans, while enjoying 3 champioships, have to now pay the price.  There is very little respect for the NE franchise anymore.  It's not because of the success.  It's because of the dishonesty, arrogance and horrific attitude of its headcoach. 

          George wrote:
          I think there's a bit of "delusion" in all sports fans, David. Tens of thousands of fans of other teams feel varying degrees of jealousy and envy about the fact that the Patriots have had so much success, while their teams have not. There's no difference between those feelings, and those of so many baseball fans against the Yankees, during their "invincible" years; basketball fans against the Celtics during theirs; and hockey fans against The Canadiens during theirs. Those fans will instantly seize on any opportunity to damn the champion. That is simply fact.
           
          You know that most of the Pats haters were praising Goodell to the heavens when he found Belichick guilty, and imposed the most severe punishment in the history of the league. Goodell could do no wrong in their eyes, at that point. Now that Goodell has come out and said "That's all there is", those same fans are jumping on the "cover up" bandwagon, because they want more of Belichick's hide. Until Bill Belichick is strung up by his heels, gutted, and left to bleed out, those fans won't be happy.
           
          And Jets fans, of course, lead the pack, since, whether they admit it or not, the vast majority of them will be pissed off to infinity over the fact that "the cheater" didn't stay on to coach THEIR team to 3 Super Bowl wins. And that, my friend, is the honest truth on that issue!
           
          If you've really kept up with all of the continuing media hype on the whole issue of videotaping, you certainly know that everything I said about past "offenses" by other teams is true. You know that the admissions and statements by the former coaches I named are accurate. Yet you make no reference to any of that. Should others be punished for past "cheating", or not, David? If not, they it is, by any definition, a witch hunt to after just one guy. How can not acknowledge that?
           
          In any case, remember that the investigation that Specter is calling for is specifically addressed to a Goodell "cover up"; NOT specifically at what Bill Belichick may or may not have done. We who are outside the circle have no idea what may actually lie under the leaves covering the hole where Goodell buried any "evidence" that may exist of violations by Belichick, or anyone else. Again, according a lot of respected former coaches, there's a hell of a lot more to video taping violations than anything Bill Belichick has done.
           
          And, of course, I'm sure you read the statements from Belichick and Scott Pioli regarding the whole "Rams practice" crap. I'm equally certain that you immediately discarded them as lies. So be it.
           

          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

           


          From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
          Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:21 PM
          To: George
          Subject: Re: Off The Field

          Hardly a witch hunt.  What the Pats have done is a major blow to the integrity of the game.  It should be investigated.   Belichick  has a passion for cheating to give his already good team the extra boost .  Sorry, but delusional homer Pats fans will never be able to see this.  Goodell's cover up may never be exposed, but it will be investigated.  And I despise Arlen Specter too!

          George wrote:
           However ...
          
          "Yet, in 1953, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1922 decision and handed the
          ball back to Congress, observing that "in Federal Baseball...this Court held
          that...professional baseball...was not within the scope of the federal
          antitrust laws. Congress had the ruling under consideration but has not seen
          fit to bring such business under these laws by legislation. ... We think that
          if there are evils in this field which now warrant application to it of the
          antitrust laws it should be done by legislation.
          
          Baseball's exemption became still more anomalous in 1957 when the Supreme
          Court ruled, in Radovich v. NFL, that the National Football League is
          subject to antitrust statutes."
          
          " The National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the
          National Hockey League, all without antitrust exemptions, ..."
          
          (Source:
          http://www.brooking s.edu/articles/ 2003/fall_ competitiveness_ zimbalist. aspx)
          
          Next excuse, David? :-)  It's a witch hunt, David. Pure and simple. Jimmy
          Johnson, Al Davis, and Bill Parcells, to name just three, have all admitted
          to doing the same thing in the past. If the Patriots should be subject to
          investigation and further punishment for this activity, to the extreme
          suggested by some that they be stripped of previous Super Bowl titles, then
          so should the Cowboys, Raiders, and Giants; as well as any other previous
          Super Bowl teams found guilty of violating an NFL rule, such as the SF
          49ers, who violated the Salary Cap rules - which clearly provides a more
          tangible, and longer lasting, "competitive advantage" than taping a teams
          defensive hand signals. 
          
          The Patriots were guilty of violating the specific directive of the "new
          sheriff in town". He reacted hastily, out of anger and wounded ego. Even he,
          at the time, declared the violation as such, and NOT as "cheating". Taping
          of signals from other locations is not forbidden, and is very common, if not
          unanimous. If Belichick (who, while he may be arrogant, is certainly not
          stupid) was doing something that he thought would be a big deal, why did he
          have his man recording out in the open? Why not with a hidden camera in his
          damn tie tack, or something?  Goodell, and the entire NFL, now know that he
          opened a HUGE can of worms that may now taint the entire league. The best
          action for all in this would have been for him to have the camera guy
          removed, and make a private, "very firm", phone call to Belichick. But that
          wouldn't have gotten him the public recognition of HIS authority that he
          wanted.  
          
          In addition, I seriously doubt that Mangini expected so strong a reaction
          from Goodell. He wanted to put a burr under BB's saddle, to get back at him
          for "disowning" and snubbing him when he left the Patriots. My guess is that
          he's squirming like a snitch in a prison these days, knowing that the rest
          of the "inmates" would like, at the very least, to get at him in the shower
          with socks filled with bars of soap!
          
          
          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! 
          
          
          -----Original Message-----
          From: D Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net] 
          Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
          To: George
          Cc: George
          Subject: Re: Off The Field
          
          When Congress grants an anti-trust exemption and it is signed into law, then
          any fishy behavior is ripe for investigation.  Period.
          
          George wrote:
            
          ***** One of my email contacts here noted that the Patriots, and the 
          NFL, will now have to face the prospect of a very messy Senate hearing 
          on the 'spygate' issue. I want to share my thoughts on that with all of
              
          you.
            
          Regarding the potential Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, I consider 
          that ludicrous to the point of being nearly criminal itself. The 
          activities of the NFL are NOT a matter for the attention of the US 
          Senate! How can anyone even consider wasting the time and attention of 
          our government, not to mention the money, on the issue of whether or 
          not a football team "cheated", or the league "covered it up"?!
          
          The NFL is treated by the government as a single entity. They share 
          revenue.
          They are, in fact, a single organization, with individual "profit centers"
          that operate with a specified degree of independence. If one team 
          violates a rule - ANY RULE - that is a matter for the NFL to address 
          within its'
          organizational walls. It is no more a matter for public scrutiny than 
          would be a rule violation by one part of any business against another 
          part of that business.
          
          In my opinion, if there is a thorough investigation, it will reveal 
          that the same, or similar "rule violations" have been committed by 
          many NFL teams over the years; and that the NFL, with the knowledge 
          and acceptance of the teams in the league, has swept all of it under 
          the rug. The NFL will come out with a stink that will have the media 
          in an absolutely orgasmic frenzy over all the print, audio, and video 
          bullsh*t it can generate about it.
          And
          guess what? Nobody will care. The effect upon the attention of the 
          fans to the game will be virtually unaffected. The fans will continue 
          to flock to the stadiums, and tune their TVs to the games. The money 
          will continue to flow from the fans to the teams and the league. And 
          most fans will have another reason to be disgusted with the media; 
          which, also, will not change a thing.
          
          The whole issue is a waste of time, both within, and outside of the NFL.
          Dozens of present and former NFL people have made it very clear that 
          most, if not all, NFL teams have taken and used video tape that was 
          obtained in a manner that violated league rules. All of them have used 
          methods within the rules to try to "steal the signals" of opposing 
          teams. The fact is that the Patriots were not penalized for 
          "cheating", they were penalized for violating the directive of the 
          Commissioner that forbid taping in that manner. It was, as many NFL 
          people now state both publicly and privately, an error in judgment by 
          the Commissioner to open this Pandora's Box. He was motivated by his 
          ego and arrogance to stomp on Belichick for daring to defy his 
          authority.
          
          But, agree or disagree with any or all of that last paragraph, I don't 
          understand how anyone can believe that this is a matter for the time, 
          attention, and money of the US government!
          
          
          George
          An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
          
          
          
          
              
          
          
          
          
            



        • George
          I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks. I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks.
             
            I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the verbose opening, and overall style of the author, Elizabeth Merrill. Sorry, but I think she is an absolutely terrible writer. The apparent objective of this overly long article was to "see inside" Bill Belichick. This is done with a handful of anecdotes, surrounded by reams of poorly structured ramblings. There's no real sense of continuity, and not even an attempt at reasonable transitions. It's like reading a bad gossip column from some tabloid, only with a "good", rather than "nasty" theme.
             
            Nevertheless, this time I trudged through the entire article. I tried to read it from the point of view of somebody who hated Belichick, since I had intended to send the link to David. Well, this thing didn't even convince ME that Belichick is a nice guy! So, I won't be sending it on to anybody. I'll  just have to "let it rest", and move on, as you suggested. This bothers me only because, as I said in my lead paragraph to the discussion with David, I really like this guy. We were becoming genuine friends, until this unreasonable, hateful element of his personality came out. Too bad.
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:52 PM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

            Hey George,
             
            I honestly only read so far and then just bailed.  I hear similar from several folks and it has just become something for which I've better uses of my time.  Some folks are going to have his opinion and I can honestly understand how they get there.  He's misguided in my mind and ludicrously unreasonable about a few points but the fact is there's just enough negative earned by Bellichick and the Pats recently that I can understand it.  Bellichick did ignore a rule and as minimal as I view that ultimate offense it was confirmation on all the attitude issues he does sustain in approach to the game.  Extra-maritally I have no 'proof' but I do acknowledge the evidence isn't so good for BB - that says something about his home relationship sadly as well and no doubt I've heard him tell some pretty bold ones in the interest of advancing this team.  His field general approach is generally unmatched but it comes with some less savory humanitarian aspects.  I dislike Tony Dungy personally and it's for less crimes than BB for the most part so I can understand how a fan of another team could get so emotionally invested as to lose his full ability to reason. 
             
            I'm glad to let it go with the strongly negative folks and to discuss it with open minded or commiserating Pats fans.
             
            This year I believe will be the first year I totally buy into One game at a time not just for the lip service of past years but because mentally and emotionally I need the one game mantra - there's a subtle and wise psychology there and it is going to benefit me I think.
             
            We'll see :)
             
            I haven't used google to find you the "Under the Hoodie" article but suspect it's still out there.
             
            Today has a few things on the docket but I'll look if you haven't found it by end of weekend - cool?
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: George
            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:29 AM
            Subject: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

            ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He's actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues I'm in, and, in every way other than his INCREDIBLE HATRED for Bill Belichick, he's a nice guy. (He actually bought some American cat food for my cat, and sent it to me here.) We were becoming pretty close friends until "spygate". Then he exploded with this hatred.
             
            ***** If you have the time, read the messages from the bottom up, and note how he refuses to address anything other than his blanket condemnation of every molecule of Bill Belichick's being!
             
            ***** By the way, if anybody has a copy that you send to me of the article that addressed the "other side" of Belichick a couple of months ago, I'd appreciate it. I'd love to send it to David, just so that he can further demonstrate his refusal to consider any information about Belichick that isn't negative.
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: George [mailto:patswingr@ yahoo.com]
            Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:23 PM
            To: 'D. Cohen'
            Subject: RE: Off The Field

            I will, indeed, let it rest. There is no cure for blind hatred. Your attitude toward Belichick is as irrational and blind as Al Qaeda's against the USA.
             
            I honestly wonder, David, how you feel about the people who know Belichick PERSONALLY, and stand by him. I'm sure you're aware of the list of some of his friends. Have you ever read the article that examined the side of him that we never hear of? I'm sure you haven't, because you'd never get beyond the first positive word said about him in any article.
             
            A lot of  people dislike Belichick, to varying degrees. But I tell you with all sincerity that I've never seen anyone who is filled with so much hatred for a person they have never met, other than a mass murderer. Seriously, I have never seen that level of hatred directed toward a person who, at the very worst, has done nothing more damaging to other people than what you've listed as Belichick's "crimes".
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
            Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:24 PM
            To: George
            Subject: Re: Off The Field

            You will never shed the blue tinted lenses.  Belichick is a proven cheater.  Wht others have done or not done is 100% irrelevant.  You never raised children apparently.  When your youngster does something wrong and defends it by saying "well everyone else is doing it", how do you respond?  If you do so similarly to what you state below, then you would be an awful parent.  Belicheat is a miserable, dishonest, cheating thief who stole $1,000,000 of Leon Hess' money, cheated on his marriage, cheated in his professions and is despised around the league for legitimate reasons.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It has everything to do with the biggest scumbag to have hit the NFL, Bill Belichick.  Your blind defense of these pathetic excuse of a human being is embarrassing.  You, of all people, should be furious at what he has done to tarnish the image of the team you so dearly love.  His antics, dishonesty, and cheating, not to mention his attitude have left a stain on all of the Pats accomplishments.  And that opinion is widely held around the league... not just for Jets fans.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It is all about Belichick, who deserves all the flack he is getting.  I am truly sorry that the team you love so much is run by a meglamaniac who is a dishonest cheating bastard.  But it's not my fault.  Blame it on Bill. It is he who has brought this on himself and his team.  I know several honest Pats fans who are furious at him for permanently scarring the teams' accomplishmnets.  You should be too IMHO.  And no, George, BB is not like other NFL coaches.  I doubt that many ior even a few stoop to the dishonest practices he embraces. Please list your ficticious "vast majority" of coaches who cheat like Bill.  You can't.  Because there is no such "vast majority".  What you are saying mirrors Richard Nixon's stupidity withhis ficticious "silent majority".  Fabricated to defend an indefensible position.  Stop being ridiculous and let it rest. 

            George wrote:
            And still, David, not one single word from you to address the comments and admissions made by former coaches regarding the use of videotaping. You are so transparent in your hate-based position on the whole issue that it's sad. Belichick's video taping was NOT an "exclusive" practice, David. He just happened to be the first one prosecuted, or should I say "persecuted" , for it. And we all know the reasons why.
             
            I'll say it again, Belichick broke a directive from the NFL Commissioner. That was both arrogant, and a terrible misjudgment of the ego of the new sheriff's determination to make a name for himself. For those errors, he was ordered to pay a very harsh penalty. But you, all like you, are incredibly disingenuous to continue to proclaim that Belichick is a "cheater", while completely ignoring the fact, acknowledged by some who've done it, that the practice of videotaping opponents signals, with the intent of trying to learn something that would give them an advantage, has been going on for years! Years, David! Many, many years!
             
            Now, if you want to rant and rave that "the NFL is a corrupt, cheating organization" , go right ahead. But it is patently unfair to single out one man, any one man, and say that he is a "cheater", unless you condemn every coach who has ever used this, or any other surreptitiously obtained information, to try to improve his teams chances for victory. And, in doing so, you must acknowledge that you would be, in fact, condemning the entire league, over the course of its' history.
             
            Despite your deeply ingrained hatred, Bill Belichick is no worse than the vast majority of NFL coaches, or leaders in any other industry in our society. Saying otherwise is petty and unfair, since you can prove no differently; and, further, since some have already admitted to doing the same or similar thing.  
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
            Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:47 PM
            To: George
            Subject: Re: Off The Field

            Why would I discard them as lies?  Belichick is a proven liar.   If anyone is lying, he'd be the first one to suspect.  Really George, take off your blue tinted lenses.  It's not a matter of being "Pats haters".  It's a matter of  finding out just how far Belichick stretched the rules and cheated to get an unfair advantage.  I am truly sorry for all of the good Pats fans who will have to live with the reality that most people outside of  New England regard the Pats faux dynasty as tainted.  You can blame the scumbag headcoach you admire for all of this.  His arrogance was the key to it all.  How pathetic that he singlehandedly tainted almost a decade of solid accomplishment.  It's like a Greek tragedy.  NE fans, while enjoying 3 champioships, have to now pay the price.  There is very little respect for the NE franchise anymore.  It's not because of the success.  It's because of the dishonesty, arrogance and horrific attitude of its headcoach. 

            George wrote:
            I think there's a bit of "delusion" in all sports fans, David. Tens of thousands of fans of other teams feel varying degrees of jealousy and envy about the fact that the Patriots have had so much success, while their teams have not. There's no difference between those feelings, and those of so many baseball fans against the Yankees, during their "invincible" years; basketball fans against the Celtics during theirs; and hockey fans against The Canadiens during theirs. Those fans will instantly seize on any opportunity to damn the champion. That is simply fact.
             
            You know that most of the Pats haters were praising Goodell to the heavens when he found Belichick guilty, and imposed the most severe punishment in the history of the league. Goodell could do no wrong in their eyes, at that point. Now that Goodell has come out and said "That's all there is", those same fans are jumping on the "cover up" bandwagon, because they want more of Belichick's hide. Until Bill Belichick is strung up by his heels, gutted, and left to bleed out, those fans won't be happy.
             
            And Jets fans, of course, lead the pack, since, whether they admit it or not, the vast majority of them will be pissed off to infinity over the fact that "the cheater" didn't stay on to coach THEIR team to 3 Super Bowl wins. And that, my friend, is the honest truth on that issue!
             
            If you've really kept up with all of the continuing media hype on the whole issue of videotaping, you certainly know that everything I said about past "offenses" by other teams is true. You know that the admissions and statements by the former coaches I named are accurate. Yet you make no reference to any of that. Should others be punished for past "cheating", or not, David? If not, they it is, by any definition, a witch hunt to after just one guy. How can not acknowledge that?
             
            In any case, remember that the investigation that Specter is calling for is specifically addressed to a Goodell "cover up"; NOT specifically at what Bill Belichick may or may not have done. We who are outside the circle have no idea what may actually lie under the leaves covering the hole where Goodell buried any "evidence" that may exist of violations by Belichick, or anyone else. Again, according a lot of respected former coaches, there's a hell of a lot more to video taping violations than anything Bill Belichick has done.
             
            And, of course, I'm sure you read the statements from Belichick and Scott Pioli regarding the whole "Rams practice" crap. I'm equally certain that you immediately discarded them as lies. So be it.
             

            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

             


            From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
            Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:21 PM
            To: George
            Subject: Re: Off The Field

            Hardly a witch hunt.  What the Pats have done is a major blow to the integrity of the game.  It should be investigated.   Belichick  has a passion for cheating to give his already good team the extra boost .  Sorry, but delusional homer Pats fans will never be able to see this.  Goodell's cover up may never be exposed, but it will be investigated.  And I despise Arlen Specter too!

            George wrote:
             However ...
            
            "Yet, in 1953, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1922 decision and handed the
            ball back to Congress, observing that "in Federal Baseball...this Court held
            that...professional baseball...was not within the scope of the federal
            antitrust laws. Congress had the ruling under consideration but has not seen
            fit to bring such business under these laws by legislation. ... We think that
            if there are evils in this field which now warrant application to it of the
            antitrust laws it should be done by legislation.
            
            Baseball's exemption became still more anomalous in 1957 when the Supreme
            Court ruled, in Radovich v. NFL, that the National Football League is
            subject to antitrust statutes."
            
            " The National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the
            National Hockey League, all without antitrust exemptions, ..."
            
            (Source:
            http://www.brooking s.edu/articles/ 2003/fall_ competitiveness_ zimbalist. aspx)
            
            Next excuse, David? :-)  It's a witch hunt, David. Pure and simple. Jimmy
            Johnson, Al Davis, and Bill Parcells, to name just three, have all admitted
            to doing the same thing in the past. If the Patriots should be subject to
            investigation and further punishment for this activity, to the extreme
            suggested by some that they be stripped of previous Super Bowl titles, then
            so should the Cowboys, Raiders, and Giants; as well as any other previous
            Super Bowl teams found guilty of violating an NFL rule, such as the SF
            49ers, who violated the Salary Cap rules - which clearly provides a more
            tangible, and longer lasting, "competitive advantage" than taping a teams
            defensive hand signals. 
            
            The Patriots were guilty of violating the specific directive of the "new
            sheriff in town". He reacted hastily, out of anger and wounded ego. Even he,
            at the time, declared the violation as such, and NOT as "cheating". Taping
            of signals from other locations is not forbidden, and is very common, if not
            unanimous. If Belichick (who, while he may be arrogant, is certainly not
            stupid) was doing something that he thought would be a big deal, why did he
            have his man recording out in the open? Why not with a hidden camera in his
            damn tie tack, or something?  Goodell, and the entire NFL, now know that he
            opened a HUGE can of worms that may now taint the entire league. The best
            action for all in this would have been for him to have the camera guy
            removed, and make a private, "very firm", phone call to Belichick. But that
            wouldn't have gotten him the public recognition of HIS authority that he
            wanted.  
            
            In addition, I seriously doubt that Mangini expected so strong a reaction
            from Goodell. He wanted to put a burr under BB's saddle, to get back at him
            for "disowning" and snubbing him when he left the Patriots. My guess is that
            he's squirming like a snitch in a prison these days, knowing that the rest
            of the "inmates" would like, at the very least, to get at him in the shower
            with socks filled with bars of soap!
            
            
            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! 
            
            
            -----Original Message-----
            From: D Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net] 
            Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
            To: George
            Cc: George
            Subject: Re: Off The Field
            
            When Congress grants an anti-trust exemption and it is signed into law, then
            any fishy behavior is ripe for investigation.  Period.
            
            George wrote:
              
            ***** One of my email contacts here noted that the Patriots, and the 
            NFL, will now have to face the prospect of a very messy Senate hearing 
            on the 'spygate' issue. I want to share my thoughts on that with all of
                
            you.
              
            Regarding the potential Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, I consider 
            that ludicrous to the point of being nearly criminal itself. The 
            activities of the NFL are NOT a matter for the attention of the US 
            Senate! How can anyone even consider wasting the time and attention of 
            our government, not to mention the money, on the issue of whether or 
            not a football team "cheated", or the league "covered it up"?!
            
            The NFL is treated by the government as a single entity. They share 
            revenue.
            They are, in fact, a single organization, with individual "profit centers"
            that operate with a specified degree of independence. If one team 
            violates a rule - ANY RULE - that is a matter for the NFL to address 
            within its'
            organizational walls. It is no more a matter for public scrutiny than 
            would be a rule violation by one part of any business against another 
            part of that business.
            
            In my opinion, if there is a thorough investigation, it will reveal 
            that the same, or similar "rule violations" have been committed by 
            many NFL teams over the years; and that the NFL, with the knowledge 
            and acceptance of the teams in the league, has swept all of it under 
            the rug. The NFL will come out with a stink that will have the media 
            in an absolutely orgasmic frenzy over all the print, audio, and video 
            bullsh*t it can generate about it.
            And
            guess what? Nobody will care. The effect upon the attention of the 
            fans to the game will be virtually unaffected. The fans will continue 
            to flock to the stadiums, and tune their TVs to the games. The money 
            will continue to flow from the fans to the teams and the league. And 
            most fans will have another reason to be disgusted with the media; 
            which, also, will not change a thing.
            
            The whole issue is a waste of time, both within, and outside of the NFL.
            Dozens of present and former NFL people have made it very clear that 
            most, if not all, NFL teams have taken and used video tape that was 
            obtained in a manner that violated league rules. All of them have used 
            methods within the rules to try to "steal the signals" of opposing 
            teams. The fact is that the Patriots were not penalized for 
            "cheating", they were penalized for violating the directive of the 
            Commissioner that forbid taping in that manner. It was, as many NFL 
            people now state both publicly and privately, an error in judgment by 
            the Commissioner to open this Pandora's Box. He was motivated by his 
            ego and arrogance to stomp on Belichick for daring to defy his 
            authority.
            
            But, agree or disagree with any or all of that last paragraph, I don't 
            understand how anyone can believe that this is a matter for the time, 
            attention, and money of the US government!
            
            
            George
            An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
            
            
            
            
                
            
            
            
            
              



          • RandyZ. Pierce
            The real book for reasonable insight into Bellichick is entitled Education of a Coach and was written much more eloquently by a legitimate author. The only
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 2, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              The real book for reasonable insight into Bellichick is entitled "Education of a Coach" and was written much more eloquently by a legitimate author.
               
              The only redeeming tales from the Hoodie article were the car accident help from BB when others were just driving by and the dog owners tale (imo).
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: George
              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:08 PM
              Subject: RE: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

              I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks.
               
              I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the verbose opening, and overall style of the author, Elizabeth Merrill. Sorry, but I think she is an absolutely terrible writer. The apparent objective of this overly long article was to "see inside" Bill Belichick. This is done with a handful of anecdotes, surrounded by reams of poorly structured ramblings. There's no real sense of continuity, and not even an attempt at reasonable transitions. It's like reading a bad gossip column from some tabloid, only with a "good", rather than "nasty" theme.
               
              Nevertheless, this time I trudged through the entire article. I tried to read it from the point of view of somebody who hated Belichick, since I had intended to send the link to David. Well, this thing didn't even convince ME that Belichick is a nice guy! So, I won't be sending it on to anybody. I'll  just have to "let it rest", and move on, as you suggested. This bothers me only because, as I said in my lead paragraph to the discussion with David, I really like this guy. We were becoming genuine friends, until this unreasonable, hateful element of his personality came out. Too bad.
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:52 PM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

              Hey George,
               
              I honestly only read so far and then just bailed.  I hear similar from several folks and it has just become something for which I've better uses of my time.  Some folks are going to have his opinion and I can honestly understand how they get there.  He's misguided in my mind and ludicrously unreasonable about a few points but the fact is there's just enough negative earned by Bellichick and the Pats recently that I can understand it.  Bellichick did ignore a rule and as minimal as I view that ultimate offense it was confirmation on all the attitude issues he does sustain in approach to the game.  Extra-maritally I have no 'proof' but I do acknowledge the evidence isn't so good for BB - that says something about his home relationship sadly as well and no doubt I've heard him tell some pretty bold ones in the interest of advancing this team.  His field general approach is generally unmatched but it comes with some less savory humanitarian aspects.  I dislike Tony Dungy personally and it's for less crimes than BB for the most part so I can understand how a fan of another team could get so emotionally invested as to lose his full ability to reason. 
               
              I'm glad to let it go with the strongly negative folks and to discuss it with open minded or commiserating Pats fans.
               
              This year I believe will be the first year I totally buy into One game at a time not just for the lip service of past years but because mentally and emotionally I need the one game mantra - there's a subtle and wise psychology there and it is going to benefit me I think.
               
              We'll see :)
               
              I haven't used google to find you the "Under the Hoodie" article but suspect it's still out there.
               
              Today has a few things on the docket but I'll look if you haven't found it by end of weekend - cool?
               
              Go Pats!
              Zip
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: George
              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:29 AM
              Subject: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

              ***** I had to share with you this on-going exchange between me and a guy I know through Fantasy Football. He's actually the Commissioner in 2 of the leagues I'm in, and, in every way other than his INCREDIBLE HATRED for Bill Belichick, he's a nice guy. (He actually bought some American cat food for my cat, and sent it to me here.) We were becoming pretty close friends until "spygate". Then he exploded with this hatred.
               
              ***** If you have the time, read the messages from the bottom up, and note how he refuses to address anything other than his blanket condemnation of every molecule of Bill Belichick's being!
               
              ***** By the way, if anybody has a copy that you send to me of the article that addressed the "other side" of Belichick a couple of months ago, I'd appreciate it. I'd love to send it to David, just so that he can further demonstrate his refusal to consider any information about Belichick that isn't negative.
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: George [mailto:patswingr@ yahoo.com]
              Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 3:23 PM
              To: 'D. Cohen'
              Subject: RE: Off The Field

              I will, indeed, let it rest. There is no cure for blind hatred. Your attitude toward Belichick is as irrational and blind as Al Qaeda's against the USA.
               
              I honestly wonder, David, how you feel about the people who know Belichick PERSONALLY, and stand by him. I'm sure you're aware of the list of some of his friends. Have you ever read the article that examined the side of him that we never hear of? I'm sure you haven't, because you'd never get beyond the first positive word said about him in any article.
               
              A lot of  people dislike Belichick, to varying degrees. But I tell you with all sincerity that I've never seen anyone who is filled with so much hatred for a person they have never met, other than a mass murderer. Seriously, I have never seen that level of hatred directed toward a person who, at the very worst, has done nothing more damaging to other people than what you've listed as Belichick's "crimes".
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
              Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:24 PM
              To: George
              Subject: Re: Off The Field

              You will never shed the blue tinted lenses.  Belichick is a proven cheater.  Wht others have done or not done is 100% irrelevant.  You never raised children apparently.  When your youngster does something wrong and defends it by saying "well everyone else is doing it", how do you respond?  If you do so similarly to what you state below, then you would be an awful parent.  Belicheat is a miserable, dishonest, cheating thief who stole $1,000,000 of Leon Hess' money, cheated on his marriage, cheated in his professions and is despised around the league for legitimate reasons.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It has everything to do with the biggest scumbag to have hit the NFL, Bill Belichick.  Your blind defense of these pathetic excuse of a human being is embarrassing.  You, of all people, should be furious at what he has done to tarnish the image of the team you so dearly love.  His antics, dishonesty, and cheating, not to mention his attitude have left a stain on all of the Pats accomplishments.  And that opinion is widely held around the league... not just for Jets fans.  It has nothing to do with the Pats.  It is all about Belichick, who deserves all the flack he is getting.  I am truly sorry that the team you love so much is run by a meglamaniac who is a dishonest cheating bastard.  But it's not my fault.  Blame it on Bill. It is he who has brought this on himself and his team.  I know several honest Pats fans who are furious at him for permanently scarring the teams' accomplishmnets.  You should be too IMHO.  And no, George, BB is not like other NFL coaches.  I doubt that many ior even a few stoop to the dishonest practices he embraces. Please list your ficticious "vast majority" of coaches who cheat like Bill.  You can't.  Because there is no such "vast majority".  What you are saying mirrors Richard Nixon's stupidity withhis ficticious "silent majority".  Fabricated to defend an indefensible position.  Stop being ridiculous and let it rest. 

              George wrote:
              And still, David, not one single word from you to address the comments and admissions made by former coaches regarding the use of videotaping. You are so transparent in your hate-based position on the whole issue that it's sad. Belichick's video taping was NOT an "exclusive" practice, David. He just happened to be the first one prosecuted, or should I say "persecuted" , for it. And we all know the reasons why.
               
              I'll say it again, Belichick broke a directive from the NFL Commissioner. That was both arrogant, and a terrible misjudgment of the ego of the new sheriff's determination to make a name for himself. For those errors, he was ordered to pay a very harsh penalty. But you, all like you, are incredibly disingenuous to continue to proclaim that Belichick is a "cheater", while completely ignoring the fact, acknowledged by some who've done it, that the practice of videotaping opponents signals, with the intent of trying to learn something that would give them an advantage, has been going on for years! Years, David! Many, many years!
               
              Now, if you want to rant and rave that "the NFL is a corrupt, cheating organization" , go right ahead. But it is patently unfair to single out one man, any one man, and say that he is a "cheater", unless you condemn every coach who has ever used this, or any other surreptitiously obtained information, to try to improve his teams chances for victory. And, in doing so, you must acknowledge that you would be, in fact, condemning the entire league, over the course of its' history.
               
              Despite your deeply ingrained hatred, Bill Belichick is no worse than the vast majority of NFL coaches, or leaders in any other industry in our society. Saying otherwise is petty and unfair, since you can prove no differently; and, further, since some have already admitted to doing the same or similar thing.  
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
              Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:47 PM
              To: George
              Subject: Re: Off The Field

              Why would I discard them as lies?  Belichick is a proven liar.   If anyone is lying, he'd be the first one to suspect.  Really George, take off your blue tinted lenses.  It's not a matter of being "Pats haters".  It's a matter of  finding out just how far Belichick stretched the rules and cheated to get an unfair advantage.  I am truly sorry for all of the good Pats fans who will have to live with the reality that most people outside of  New England regard the Pats faux dynasty as tainted.  You can blame the scumbag headcoach you admire for all of this.  His arrogance was the key to it all.  How pathetic that he singlehandedly tainted almost a decade of solid accomplishment.  It's like a Greek tragedy.  NE fans, while enjoying 3 champioships, have to now pay the price.  There is very little respect for the NE franchise anymore.  It's not because of the success.  It's because of the dishonesty, arrogance and horrific attitude of its headcoach. 

              George wrote:
              I think there's a bit of "delusion" in all sports fans, David. Tens of thousands of fans of other teams feel varying degrees of jealousy and envy about the fact that the Patriots have had so much success, while their teams have not. There's no difference between those feelings, and those of so many baseball fans against the Yankees, during their "invincible" years; basketball fans against the Celtics during theirs; and hockey fans against The Canadiens during theirs. Those fans will instantly seize on any opportunity to damn the champion. That is simply fact.
               
              You know that most of the Pats haters were praising Goodell to the heavens when he found Belichick guilty, and imposed the most severe punishment in the history of the league. Goodell could do no wrong in their eyes, at that point. Now that Goodell has come out and said "That's all there is", those same fans are jumping on the "cover up" bandwagon, because they want more of Belichick's hide. Until Bill Belichick is strung up by his heels, gutted, and left to bleed out, those fans won't be happy.
               
              And Jets fans, of course, lead the pack, since, whether they admit it or not, the vast majority of them will be pissed off to infinity over the fact that "the cheater" didn't stay on to coach THEIR team to 3 Super Bowl wins. And that, my friend, is the honest truth on that issue!
               
              If you've really kept up with all of the continuing media hype on the whole issue of videotaping, you certainly know that everything I said about past "offenses" by other teams is true. You know that the admissions and statements by the former coaches I named are accurate. Yet you make no reference to any of that. Should others be punished for past "cheating", or not, David? If not, they it is, by any definition, a witch hunt to after just one guy. How can not acknowledge that?
               
              In any case, remember that the investigation that Specter is calling for is specifically addressed to a Goodell "cover up"; NOT specifically at what Bill Belichick may or may not have done. We who are outside the circle have no idea what may actually lie under the leaves covering the hole where Goodell buried any "evidence" that may exist of violations by Belichick, or anyone else. Again, according a lot of respected former coaches, there's a hell of a lot more to video taping violations than anything Bill Belichick has done.
               
              And, of course, I'm sure you read the statements from Belichick and Scott Pioli regarding the whole "Rams practice" crap. I'm equally certain that you immediately discarded them as lies. So be it.
               

              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

               


              From: D. Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net]
              Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:21 PM
              To: George
              Subject: Re: Off The Field

              Hardly a witch hunt.  What the Pats have done is a major blow to the integrity of the game.  It should be investigated.   Belichick  has a passion for cheating to give his already good team the extra boost .  Sorry, but delusional homer Pats fans will never be able to see this.  Goodell's cover up may never be exposed, but it will be investigated.  And I despise Arlen Specter too!

              George wrote:
               However ...
              
              "Yet, in 1953, the Supreme Court reaffirmed the 1922 decision and handed the
              ball back to Congress, observing that "in Federal Baseball...this Court held
              that...professional baseball...was not within the scope of the federal
              antitrust laws. Congress had the ruling under consideration but has not seen
              fit to bring such business under these laws by legislation. ... We think that
              if there are evils in this field which now warrant application to it of the
              antitrust laws it should be done by legislation.
              
              Baseball's exemption became still more anomalous in 1957 when the Supreme
              Court ruled, in Radovich v. NFL, that the National Football League is
              subject to antitrust statutes."
              
              " The National Football League, the National Basketball Association, and the
              National Hockey League, all without antitrust exemptions, ..."
              
              (Source:
              http://www.brooking s.edu/articles/ 2003/fall_ competitiveness_ zimbalist. aspx)
              
              Next excuse, David? :-)  It's a witch hunt, David. Pure and simple. Jimmy
              Johnson, Al Davis, and Bill Parcells, to name just three, have all admitted
              to doing the same thing in the past. If the Patriots should be subject to
              investigation and further punishment for this activity, to the extreme
              suggested by some that they be stripped of previous Super Bowl titles, then
              so should the Cowboys, Raiders, and Giants; as well as any other previous
              Super Bowl teams found guilty of violating an NFL rule, such as the SF
              49ers, who violated the Salary Cap rules - which clearly provides a more
              tangible, and longer lasting, "competitive advantage" than taping a teams
              defensive hand signals. 
              
              The Patriots were guilty of violating the specific directive of the "new
              sheriff in town". He reacted hastily, out of anger and wounded ego. Even he,
              at the time, declared the violation as such, and NOT as "cheating". Taping
              of signals from other locations is not forbidden, and is very common, if not
              unanimous. If Belichick (who, while he may be arrogant, is certainly not
              stupid) was doing something that he thought would be a big deal, why did he
              have his man recording out in the open? Why not with a hidden camera in his
              damn tie tack, or something?  Goodell, and the entire NFL, now know that he
              opened a HUGE can of worms that may now taint the entire league. The best
              action for all in this would have been for him to have the camera guy
              removed, and make a private, "very firm", phone call to Belichick. But that
              wouldn't have gotten him the public recognition of HIS authority that he
              wanted.  
              
              In addition, I seriously doubt that Mangini expected so strong a reaction
              from Goodell. He wanted to put a burr under BB's saddle, to get back at him
              for "disowning" and snubbing him when he left the Patriots. My guess is that
              he's squirming like a snitch in a prison these days, knowing that the rest
              of the "inmates" would like, at the very least, to get at him in the shower
              with socks filled with bars of soap!
              
              
              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots! 
              
              
              -----Original Message-----
              From: D Cohen [mailto:tutor@ nac.net] 
              Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 8:41 AM
              To: George
              Cc: George
              Subject: Re: Off The Field
              
              When Congress grants an anti-trust exemption and it is signed into law, then
              any fishy behavior is ripe for investigation.  Period.
              
              George wrote:
                
              ***** One of my email contacts here noted that the Patriots, and the 
              NFL, will now have to face the prospect of a very messy Senate hearing 
              on the 'spygate' issue. I want to share my thoughts on that with all of
                  
              you.
                
              Regarding the potential Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, I consider 
              that ludicrous to the point of being nearly criminal itself. The 
              activities of the NFL are NOT a matter for the attention of the US 
              Senate! How can anyone even consider wasting the time and attention of 
              our government, not to mention the money, on the issue of whether or 
              not a football team "cheated", or the league "covered it up"?!
              
              The NFL is treated by the government as a single entity. They share 
              revenue.
              They are, in fact, a single organization, with individual "profit centers"
              that operate with a specified degree of independence. If one team 
              violates a rule - ANY RULE - that is a matter for the NFL to address 
              within its'
              organizational walls. It is no more a matter for public scrutiny than 
              would be a rule violation by one part of any business against another 
              part of that business.
              
              In my opinion, if there is a thorough investigation, it will reveal 
              that the same, or similar "rule violations" have been committed by 
              many NFL teams over the years; and that the NFL, with the knowledge 
              and acceptance of the teams in the league, has swept all of it under 
              the rug. The NFL will come out with a stink that will have the media 
              in an absolutely orgasmic frenzy over all the print, audio, and video 
              bullsh*t it can generate about it.
              And
              guess what? Nobody will care. The effect upon the attention of the 
              fans to the game will be virtually unaffected. The fans will continue 
              to flock to the stadiums, and tune their TVs to the games. The money 
              will continue to flow from the fans to the teams and the league. And 
              most fans will have another reason to be disgusted with the media; 
              which, also, will not change a thing.
              
              The whole issue is a waste of time, both within, and outside of the NFL.
              Dozens of present and former NFL people have made it very clear that 
              most, if not all, NFL teams have taken and used video tape that was 
              obtained in a manner that violated league rules. All of them have used 
              methods within the rules to try to "steal the signals" of opposing 
              teams. The fact is that the Patriots were not penalized for 
              "cheating", they were penalized for violating the directive of the 
              Commissioner that forbid taping in that manner. It was, as many NFL 
              people now state both publicly and privately, an error in judgment by 
              the Commissioner to open this Pandora's Box. He was motivated by his 
              ego and arrogance to stomp on Belichick for daring to defy his 
              authority.
              
              But, agree or disagree with any or all of that last paragraph, I don't 
              understand how anyone can believe that this is a matter for the time, 
              attention, and money of the US government!
              
              
              George
              An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!
              
              
              
              
                  
              
              
              
              
                



            • Susan Moore
              Hey George, I read all of the discourse between you and your friend from the bottom up and, as Randy said, I ve heard it all too--although maybe not as often
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hey George,
                I read all of the discourse between you and your "friend" from the bottom up and, as Randy said, I've heard it all too--although maybe not as often or as intensely. For one, I don't live in the Patriots area as Randy does and secondly, I'm mostly surrounded by moms with kids and that's not our usual discussion.
                Too bad about the article not holding up in support of someone (or you) liking BB---I know that on this list we are all here for a common purpose and that is being fans of the Patriots. We all have our various opinions on players, moves in the field and trades, management, coaches, etc. and we all have our own opinions on BB and on the rule infraction, etc.
                 
                That being said above....one seemingly simple question comes to mind when reading the article and the commentary on it...WHERE does it say that we have to like a coach that is in charge of our team or any team for that matter??? WHY does he have to be a nice guy? I don't agree with any of that at all...from all that I've read, he has a good (maybe great) repoire with his players and that really to me is the bottom line overall. IF the owners are happy with him and the players are happy with him and his style of coaching, then what else really matters???
                I don't see players bailing out in trades because he's an SOB or the owners firing him--didn't he just get a contract extension?
                Nice does you well in some cases, but I'm not sure that it's essential in this case. I think that most of these articles are, as Shakespeare said, "much ado about nothing".
                 
                Susan
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: George
                Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:08 PM
                Subject: RE: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks.
                 
                I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the verbose opening, and overall style of the author, Elizabeth Merrill. Sorry, but I think she is an absolutely terrible writer. The apparent objective of this overly long article was to "see inside" Bill Belichick. This is done with a handful of anecdotes, surrounded by reams of poorly structured ramblings. There's no real sense of continuity, and not even an attempt at reasonable transitions. It's like reading a bad gossip column from some tabloid, only with a "good", rather than "nasty" theme.
                 
                Nevertheless, this time I trudged through the entire article. I tried to read it from the point of view of somebody who hated Belichick, since I had intended to send the link to David. Well, this thing didn't even convince ME that Belichick is a nice guy! So, I won't be sending it on to anybody. I'll  just have to "let it rest", and move on, as you suggested. This bothers me only because, as I said in my lead paragraph to the discussion with David, I really like this guy. We were becoming genuine friends, until this unreasonable, hateful element of his personality came out. Too
                .

              • George
                Yes, Susan, but I m not concerned with whether BB is, or is perceived as, a nice guy . What gets to my gut, and what my friend, David, is saying, is that
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 2, 2008
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                  Yes, Susan, but I'm not concerned with whether BB is, or is perceived as, a "nice guy". What gets to my gut, and what my friend, David, is saying, is that Belichick is a cheat and a liar, AND that his cheating and lying taints the achievements of the Patriots during his reign. That is ludicrous, and that outrages me. It is simply not true, and every veteran coach who has commented on the "spygate" crap has said the same thing. Video tapes of opponents defensive signals is NOT a significant factor in winning football games. Period. And David, and those like him, choose to blindly ignore that input from people who coach or have coached, in the NFL. I know that I should drop it, and ignore it in the future. But I have a hard time hearing people downplay the achievements the Patriots have earned over these past 7 years.
                   

                  George
                  An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                   


                  From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
                  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:58 AM
                  To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                  Hey George,
                  I read all of the discourse between you and your "friend" from the bottom up and, as Randy said, I've heard it all too--although maybe not as often or as intensely. For one, I don't live in the Patriots area as Randy does and secondly, I'm mostly surrounded by moms with kids and that's not our usual discussion.
                  Too bad about the article not holding up in support of someone (or you) liking BB---I know that on this list we are all here for a common purpose and that is being fans of the Patriots. We all have our various opinions on players, moves in the field and trades, management, coaches, etc. and we all have our own opinions on BB and on the rule infraction, etc.
                   
                  That being said above....one seemingly simple question comes to mind when reading the article and the commentary on it...WHERE does it say that we have to like a coach that is in charge of our team or any team for that matter??? WHY does he have to be a nice guy? I don't agree with any of that at all...from all that I've read, he has a good (maybe great) repoire with his players and that really to me is the bottom line overall. IF the owners are happy with him and the players are happy with him and his style of coaching, then what else really matters???
                  I don't see players bailing out in trades because he's an SOB or the owners firing him--didn't he just get a contract extension?
                  Nice does you well in some cases, but I'm not sure that it's essential in this case. I think that most of these articles are, as Shakespeare said, "much ado about nothing".
                   
                  Susan
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: George
                  Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:08 PM
                  Subject: RE: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                  I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks.
                   
                  I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the verbose opening, and overall style of the author, Elizabeth Merrill. Sorry, but I think she is an absolutely terrible writer. The apparent objective of this overly long article was to "see inside" Bill Belichick. This is done with a handful of anecdotes, surrounded by reams of poorly structured ramblings. There's no real sense of continuity, and not even an attempt at reasonable transitions. It's like reading a bad gossip column from some tabloid, only with a "good", rather than "nasty" theme.
                   
                  Nevertheless, this time I trudged through the entire article. I tried to read it from the point of view of somebody who hated Belichick, since I had intended to send the link to David. Well, this thing didn't even convince ME that Belichick is a nice guy! So, I won't be sending it on to anybody. I'll  just have to "let it rest", and move on, as you suggested. This bothers me only because, as I said in my lead paragraph to the discussion with David, I really like this guy. We were becoming genuine friends, until this unreasonable, hateful element of his personality came out. Too
                  .

                • Susan Moore
                  I KNOW, George, I KNOW...lol!! I do know what you are saying and I agree with you...you re preaching to the choir on that one AND a loud choir it is, right
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I KNOW, George, I KNOW...lol!! I do know what you are saying and I agree with you...you're preaching to the choir on that one AND a loud choir it is, right (along with Kevin)..lol!!
                    I also get mad when people just blindly dismiss anything and everything the Pats have done just because they've "heard" a rules infraction penalty was slapped on the team. They do NO research and put NO thought into anything at all, but react with a loud and resounding SLAP--like a judge, jury and executioner.
                    They get so indignant that they equate niceness with good coaching--the closest I came to that was at Christmas time, when my sister-in-law started in on the cheating thing and was all red in the face and blubbery. She just LOVES that saint Dungy--he's so nice, he's so saintly, he's so moral, he's so religious, etc...as if any of that really is pertinent to whether the team wins or not or whether the players like him or not.
                    When they write things on BB, I find it ludicrous that all they talk about is the cheating thing and make him look like a bad guy or a guy that's not "nice" and I'm wondering if any of those writers or authors follow pro sports at all??? Who in heck ever said "nice" is a requirement at all? Give me a huge break..respect and work ethic are what matter (among other things) and if some of those other teams in the NFL adopted those ingredients then maybe they'd win the games also.
                    Someone would have to shove absolute proof in my face before I'd agree that "taping" is what won any team any games and I don't think there is any out there.
                     
                    Susan
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: George
                    Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:02 PM
                    Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                    Yes, Susan, but I'm not concerned with whether BB is, or is perceived as, a "nice guy". What gets to my gut, and what my friend, David, is saying, is that Belichick is a cheat and a liar, AND that his cheating and lying taints the achievements of the Patriots during his reign. That is ludicrous, and that outrages me. It is simply not true, and every veteran coach who has commented on the "spygate" crap has said the same thing. Video tapes of opponents defensive signals is NOT a significant factor in winning football games. Period. And David, and those like him, choose to blindly ignore that input from people who coach or have coached, in the NFL. I know that I should drop it, and ignore it in the future. But I have a hard time hearing people downplay the achievements the Patriots have earned over these past 7 years.
                     

                    George
                    An imperfect fan of the imperfect Patriots!

                     


                    From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
                    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 2:58 AM
                    To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
                    Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                    Hey George,
                    I read all of the discourse between you and your "friend" from the bottom up and, as Randy said, I've heard it all too--although maybe not as often or as intensely. For one, I don't live in the Patriots area as Randy does and secondly, I'm mostly surrounded by moms with kids and that's not our usual discussion.
                    Too bad about the article not holding up in support of someone (or you) liking BB---I know that on this list we are all here for a common purpose and that is being fans of the Patriots. We all have our various opinions on players, moves in the field and trades, management, coaches, etc. and we all have our own opinions on BB and on the rule infraction, etc.
                     
                    That being said above....one seemingly simple question comes to mind when reading the article and the commentary on it...WHERE does it say that we have to like a coach that is in charge of our team or any team for that matter??? WHY does he have to be a nice guy? I don't agree with any of that at all...from all that I've read, he has a good (maybe great) repoire with his players and that really to me is the bottom line overall. IF the owners are happy with him and the players are happy with him and his style of coaching, then what else really matters???
                    I don't see players bailing out in trades because he's an SOB or the owners firing him--didn't he just get a contract extension?
                    Nice does you well in some cases, but I'm not sure that it's essential in this case. I think that most of these articles are, as Shakespeare said, "much ado about nothing".
                     
                    Susan
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: George
                    Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:08 PM
                    Subject: RE: [patriotzip] FW: Off The Field

                    I had forgotten the name of the article. Popped right up in Google. Thanks.
                     
                    I will confess that I had not read it through the first time. I was put off by the verbose opening, and overall style of the author, Elizabeth Merrill. Sorry, but I think she is an absolutely terrible writer. The apparent objective of this overly long article was to "see inside" Bill Belichick. This is done with a handful of anecdotes, surrounded by reams of poorly structured ramblings. There's no real sense of continuity, and not even an attempt at reasonable transitions. It's like reading a bad gossip column from some tabloid, only with a "good", rather than "nasty" theme.
                     
                    Nevertheless, this time I trudged through the entire article. I tried to read it from the point of view of somebody who hated Belichick, since I had intended to send the link to David. Well, this thing didn't even convince ME that Belichick is a nice guy! So, I won't be sending it on to anybody. I'll  just have to "let it rest", and move on, as you suggested. This bothers me only because, as I said in my lead paragraph to the discussion with David, I really like this guy. We were becoming genuine friends, until this unreasonable, hateful element of his personality came out. Too
                    .

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