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Re: [patriotzip] Re: Congratulations Giants

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  • Susan Moore
    Hey Randy, I think that we all feel as if we ve gotten body blows from this season...maybe we all need to have a Ben-Gay party for those aches and pains. Some
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 4, 2008
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      Hey Randy,
      I think that we all feel as if we've gotten body blows from this season...maybe we all need to have a Ben-Gay party for those
      aches and pains.
      Some Super Bowl years or AFC championship games don't have nearly as many of those "what-ifs" as this one did..I think those what-ifs are going to haunt me for awhile yet.
      I know I sure feel alot better in the company of this list, that we all feel the same way.
       
      Susan
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 5:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Congratulations Giants

      A great note David, thanks!
       
      There are so many 'what if' teasings to distract us from what is.  Ultimately losing is a part of every game with a winner and we've had tremedous success.   For me the hardest part, I think, is that each step of this season had enjoyment marred with the various bits and bouts of negative news.  Each of those negative things was like a body blow in a fight and wore on me even as the success and the goal kept me striving forward with this marvelous team.  When last night ended all the aches and pains of a season that had as many frustrations off field as success on-field; well those body blows began to hurt all the more.  It was an exhausting season for me as a fan and it had some painful parts taht are just a little fresher in my mind at present. 
       
      Go Pats!
      Zip
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:09 PM
      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Congratulations Giants

      Of all the other Super Bowls the Patriots won, if the defense gave up only 17 points (like last night) they win.  Only the SB36 defense gave up as few points.  Ironically, this year, when the Patriots possess the greatest offense of all time, they can only score 14.  I still can't get over it.  The tables have turned and the Patriots are the 2001 Rams.  I woke up at 430 last night and couldn't get back to sleep.  The game kept running through my head.  I blame the coaching staff above all others.  The Pats have faced furious pass rushes before.  Where were the quick outlet passes, screens, slants?  Where were the multiple tight end formations?  Still despite it all, things had to go the Giants way on that last drive.  Eli escaped a sure sack.  Rodney couldn't stop that miracle catch by Tyree.  Asante couldn't bring in the interception.  Jacobs just gets the first on 4th and 1.
       
      It's not losing the SuperBowl so much that pains me.  It is the loss at a chance in history.  Somehow, this year turned into something special and not just "ho hum, Pats in SuperBowl again."  My kids were trying to cheer me up this morning.  I told them not to worry.  Since they were born, my two favorite sports teams have won 5 championships.  Before that, none.  I'm not much of a basketball fan, so I never really enjoyed the Celtic championships as much as others.
       
      It will be interesting to see the changes the Pats make going into next year.  What the defense seemed to lack this year that it had in years past was a "playmaker," know what I mean?  Ty Law, the Tedy of old, the Rodney of old.  All they needed was one more play on defense and they would be 4 time Super Bowl champs.
       
      Ah, I thought I was starting to feel better before I wrote this, now I'm just getting sad again.
       
      Stunned in Peabody,
      Dave
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 1:51 PM
      Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Re: Congratulations Giants

      I think that the D played a good game... not the best but they gave the O all the shots to win this game.  Yes, at the end they kinda feel apart or did the Giant just step it up?  Not sure on that one?  I think it was a combination of both.  Eli had some bad passes, Samual missed an INT, and the giants WR had some incredible catches...
       
      Just a bummer for the season to end the way it did.  As someone has already stated, all of us would have rathered the lose be during the season.

      Frank <frank.dana@comcast. net> wrote:
      I probably acted a bit emotionally, regarding Tedy, Junior, and
      Rodney, but one of the things that invariably leads to the end of
      dynasty is to hold on to your aging veterans too long. It's usually
      out of loyalty, and a desire to maintain that leadership, knowledge
      base, and continuity with the success that has been achieved.

      But there comes a point of diminishing returns. Knowledge and
      leadership are irreplaceable, but this is a physical game. Tedy, for
      instance, had a lot of tackles again this year, but he also got run
      over a lot. He doesn't have the speed to blitz anymore. I love the
      guy, but he's on the 18th green, and isn't going to get better with
      age. Junior is in amazing shape, and played well all season, but he
      will turn 40 next year.

      One of the marks of this team is its ability to restock and remain
      competitive. Very few players from that 2001 season are still on
      this team, and they continue to be successful. Schemes and
      experience will take you far, but we will have to compete with
      younger, stronger teams going forward. We have to continue to
      reinvent ourselves to compete. JMO.

      fdb

      --- In patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com, "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@.. .>
      wrote:
      >
      > I'm just starting the painful process of digging through enough of
      this wreck to feel out my personal perspective. It was a
      horrifically tough finish to the game and the season. Absolutely
      the season was still an astounding ride and absolutely I can accept
      and congratulate a well deserving Giants team. . Congratulations to
      the World Champion Giants.
      >
      > As for the Patriots it is an exceedingly stunning end to the
      notion of perfection and forever. This was a fantastic team in 2007
      and they will forever live with the 'but' put upon their tremendous
      accomplishments. I'm not entirely with Frank that Tedy and Jr
      should be thanked for services and made to retire. I don't think
      their play had any of the root cause of this loss. This loss, to
      me, falls upon the O-Line and Tom Brady more than any other single
      sources if sources are sought but we win...and lost...as a team. We
      wasted opportunities from the coaching staff on to and through the
      entire team and as a result we'll have a tough off-season.
      >
      > This loss hurts me considerably moree than the AFC Championship
      loss last year and the effect will be far more challenging for this
      team than that loss. This team has tremendous amounts of work to
      come to terms with their failure, restructure as the off-season
      always requires and bring forth a new season of hope next year. It
      will be a hope that has trouble forming all the way through a long
      season but it is the hope every team and fan must build when their
      season ends in loss.
      >
      > This team is far beyond what many would have expected and hoped
      for in a long and storied season but it is not a World Champion.
      I'm thankful for all the fantastic highs and the few lows that
      helped build the appreciation for so much good all season long. The
      bitter taste of this loss will take much time in facing but it will
      fade and I will put it behind me as quickly as I'm able to let me
      get to the phases of appreciation for what is ahead.
      >
      > Go Pats!
      > Randy/Zip--- -- Original Message -----
      > From: Frank
      > To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:45 PM
      > Subject: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants
      >
      >
      > I didn't think they could put that kind of pressure on TB. That
      O-line
      > let us down. No run blocking either.
      >
      > Eli was accurate and efficient. Our D played valiantly, but
      showed
      > it's flaws. No pressure at all. We should thank Tedy and Junior
      for
      > their service, and encourage them to retire. Rodney actually had
      a
      > pretty good game, but I think it's time for him as well. Rebuild
      the D
      > around that defensive line.
      >
      > Our secondary is in shambles. We need a replacement for Hobbs.
      It's
      > not just his size, he can't stay with anyone. He had an INT on a
      > deflection. Big deal. Other than that, he looked lost.
      >
      > Brady was inaccurate tonight. Was it the ankle, or just the
      pressure?
      > Could no one get open? He seemed to throw into coverage quite a
      bit.
      >
      > It was a great season. Can't take away from that. We certainly
      have
      > that core of players to build upon, and look forward to next
      year. As
      > hard as it may be, we should be proud of what this team
      accomplished
      > this year. They gave us a lot of enjoyment. Congratulations on a
      great
      > season.
      >
      > fdb
      >



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    • George
      ***** Susan (and all others making the claims), I wish you d stop harping on officiating as being a major problem in this game. Most Patriots fans (and other
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 4, 2008
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        ***** Susan (and all others making the claims), I wish you'd stop harping on officiating as being a major problem in this game. Most Patriots fans (and other NFL fans, for that matter) complain about officials "over officiating" games. I'm among those who support the cry of "let them play!" Yes, obvious fouls should be called. But I am livid when "ticky-tack" calls are made against my team, even when the crew is doing the same to the other team.
         
        ***** Was the Giants OL holding on some of the Giants pass plays? Most likely. So why didn't we hold more often, and test their "neutrality", instead of allowing the Giants D to make a tackling dummy out of Brady? How many Offensive Holding calls were there against the Patriots' OL? ONE! That was on Ben Watson on a relatively innocuous play. (A 15 yard pass to Faulk, that would have given the Patriots a 1st Down at their own 41. Hardly "game changing."
         
        ***** The penalty totals read: Giants 4 - 36 yds; Patriots 5 - 35 yds. Three of the penalties on the Patriots were proper calls for "False Starts" - two by "Mr False Start", our All Pro OLT, Matt Light (who must lead the league in False Starts!). The 5th was a Hold on the final kickoff by the Giants.
         
        ***** So, again, the officials "let them play", not calling a bunch of chicken-shit penalties on either team. Part of the coaching responsibility is to analyze the officiating of the game, both before and during play, and to react to it. If the game is being called "close", the coach has to have his players "back off" on holding, bumping receivers, etc. If it is being called "open", then the coach should have his players "push the envelope" a little, to see what they can get away with. As I said earlier, IF the Giants were getting away with Offensive Holding on our pass rushers, then we should have done a hell of a lot more holding on theirs, until, at the very least, we got called for a couple of them.
         
        ***** Officiating had little or nothing to do with the outcome of this game, IMO. Claiming that it did makes you sound like a Steelers or Colts fan. The Giants coaches and players won the game. The Patriots coaches and players lost it. Period!
         

        George

         


        From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
        Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:48 AM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

        Hey Randy,
        Thanks for putting your thoughts down...I bet some of us here can't do it yet. I'm so upset that I need to talk about it..lol!!
        You're more gracious than I am, but I guess we do need to say congrats to the Giants, no matter HOW they got it. I'm really not convinced they won as much as we lost it and gave it away, with the refs help.
        You are right in that this loss hurts more than last year's loss in the AFC finals..but it gags me that we had to lose to TWO Mannings two years in a row. Choke, gag...now that's all we'll see in the commercials to come and in the papers. Guess we can live with the knowledge that we have 3 rings and they each only have one..so that's a consolation that might make me feel better next week or so. I know you can't win them all (the headline of the L.A. Times), but it sure seemed as if we would this time. GRRR!!
         
        Susan
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:36 AM
        Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

        I'm just starting the painful process of digging through enough of this wreck to feel out my personal  perspective.  It was a horrifically tough finish to the game and the season.  Absolutely the season was still an astounding ride and absolutely I can accept and congratulate a well deserving Giants team. .  Congratulations to the World Champion Giants.
         
        As for the Patriots it is an exceedingly stunning end to the notion of perfection and forever.  This was a fantastic team in 2007 and they will forever live with the 'but' put
        This loss hurts me considerably moree than the AFC Championship loss last year and the effect will be far more challenging for this team than that loss.  This team has tremendous amounts of work to come to terms with their failure, restructure as the off-season always requires and bring forth a new season of hope next year.  It will be a hope that has trouble forming all the way through a long season but it is the hope every team and fan must build when their season ends in loss.
         
         
        .

      • Susan Moore
        Hey there...don t crucify me...lol!!! I ll jump in here and defend myself....I do agree that each team over the course of a season gets calls both for and
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 5, 2008
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          Hey there...don't crucify me...lol!!! I'll jump in here and defend myself....I do agree that each team over the course of a season gets calls both for and against them. I also don't like the little nit-picky calls that come often, BUT I really do think that in some games with some refs, the calls are out of line and biased towards one team. Does it make a difference in games? Most of the time no, but I honestly think that some calls turn the tide in the game and deflate the sails. Should it? Probably not, but the players are humans and not machines.
          Yes, the coaches and players should be proactive and defend against those calls but in some cases it just wears them down, from what I've seen. Did it in this game? I'm not saying it did 100%, but I think part of it was a factor.
          What do the Squealers and Dolts fans do? Complain all the time about calls? The Dolts usually get them all in their favor, so I don't see a reason for them to complain...just wondering.
           
          Susan
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: George
          Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:47 PM
          Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

          ***** Susan (and all others making the claims), I wish you'd stop harping on officiating as being a major problem in this game. Most Patriots fans (and other NFL fans, for that matter) complain about officials "over officiating" games. I'm among those who support the cry of "let them play!" Yes, obvious fouls should be called. But I am livid when "ticky-tack" calls are made against my team, even when the crew is doing the same to the other team.
           
          ***** Was the Giants OL holding on some of the Giants pass plays? Most likely. So why didn't we hold more often, and test their "neutrality" , instead of allowing the Giants D to make a tackling dummy out of Brady? How many Offensive Holding calls were there against the Patriots' OL? ONE! That was on Ben Watson on a relatively innocuous play. (A 15 yard pass to Faulk, that would have given the Patriots a 1st Down at their own 41. Hardly "game changing."
           
          ***** The penalty totals read: Giants 4 - 36 yds; Patriots 5 - 35 yds. Three of the penalties on the Patriots were proper calls for "False Starts" - two by "Mr False Start", our All Pro OLT, Matt Light (who must lead the league in False Starts!). The 5th was a Hold on the final kickoff by the Giants.
           
          ***** So, again, the officials "let them play", not calling a bunch of chicken-shit penalties on either team. Part of the coaching responsibility is to analyze the officiating of the game, both before and during play, and to react to it. If the game is being called "close", the coach has to have his players "back off" on holding, bumping receivers, etc. If it is being called "open", then the coach should have his players "push the envelope" a little, to see what they can get away with. As I said earlier, IF the Giants were getting away with Offensive Holding on our pass rushers, then we should have done a hell of a lot more holding on theirs, until, at the very least, we got called for a couple of them.
           
          ***** Officiating had little or nothing to do with the outcome of this game, IMO. Claiming that it did makes you sound like a Steelers or Colts fan. The Giants coaches and players won the game. The Patriots coaches and players lost it. Period!
           

          George

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
          Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:48 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

          Hey Randy,
          Thanks for putting your thoughts down...I bet some of us here can't do it yet. I'm so upset that I need to talk about it..lol!!
          You're more gracious than I am, but I guess we do need to say congrats to the Giants, no matter HOW they got it. I'm really not convinced they won as much as we lost it and gave it away, with the refs help.
          You are right in that this loss hurts more than last year's loss in the AFC finals..but it gags me that we had to lose to TWO Mannings two years in a row. Choke, gag...now that's all we'll see in the commercials to come and in the papers. Guess we can live with the knowledge that we have 3 rings and they each only have one..so that's a consolation that might make me feel better next week or so. I know you can't win them all (the headline of the L.A. Times), but it sure seemed as if we would this time. GRRR!!
           
          Susan
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:36 AM
          Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

          I'm just starting the painful process of digging through enough of this wreck to feel out my personal  perspective.  It was a horrifically tough finish to the game and the season.  Absolutely the season was still an astounding ride and absolutely I can accept and congratulate a well deserving Giants team. .  Congratulations to the World Champion Giants.
           
          As for the Patriots it is an exceedingly stunning end to the notion of perfection and forever.  This was a fantastic team in 2007 and they will forever live with the 'but' put
          This loss hurts me considerably moree than the AFC Championship loss last year and the effect will be far more challenging for this team than that loss.  This team has tremendous amounts of work to come to terms with their failure, restructure as the off-season always requires and bring forth a new season of hope next year.  It will be a hope that has trouble forming all the way through a long season but it is the hope every team and fan must build when their season ends in loss.
           
           
          .

        • George
          ***** The two primary points I was making about officiating in this game, Susan, were that: 1. There was virtually no advantage to either team in the penalties
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            ***** The two primary points I was making about officiating in this game, Susan, were that:
            1. There was virtually no advantage to either team in the penalties that WERE called.
            2. If there was an advantage to the Giants in the officials reluctance to throw flags, the Patriots either got that same advantage (based upon the "equality" of penalties called), or they failed to take advantage of the "open season" granted by the officials, by pushing the edge of "legal" play themselves.
            That's why I say that officiating was not a significant factor in the Patriots loss.
             
            ***** As for the Squeelers and Colts, remember that Pittsburgh squawked like hell following our win over them in the 2001 Playoffs, claiming that the officials had given the game to the Patriots. The Colts, of course, are infamous for running to the league's Competition Committee (their GM, Polian, and Head Coach,  Dungy, are BOTH members), and literally having rules changed in their favor. After we beat them in 2003, they had the Competition Committee declare a "special emphasis" by NFL officials in all future games upon "Defensive Holding" and "Illegal Contact". That followed their wailing over the physical coverage techniques used by our DBs against their pansy WRs. The fans of both teams, naturally, pick up on every negative and whine that comes out of the mouths of their players and officials. So they mirror the "sore loser" crap they hear.
             
            ***** I don't want too see Patriots fans falling into the same whining that we all hate from those teams, Susan. The Patriots lost because of the way our players played the game. It was not due to any "outside influences", other than the play of their opponents.
             
            ***** In any case, I am definitely not going to "crucify" you. You're a dedicated Pats fan, in a lot of pain. So am I. Those of us in that category have to understand, and console each other, as best we can. We may disagree on a point or two, as we always do. But there will be no crucifixions of "true believers" here! :-)
             

            George
            In Super Bowl XLII, the best team won.

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
            Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 11:56 PM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

            Hey there...don' t crucify me...lol!!! I'll jump in here and defend myself....I do agree that each team over the course of a season gets calls both for and against them. I also don't like the little nit-picky calls that come often, BUT I really do think that in some games with some refs, the calls are out of line and biased towards one team. Does it make a difference in games? Most of the time no, but I honestly think that some calls turn the tide in the game and deflate the sails. Should it? Probably not, but the players are humans and not machines.
            Yes, the coaches and players should be proactive and defend against those calls but in some cases it just wears them down, from what I've seen. Did it in this game? I'm not saying it did 100%, but I think part of it was a factor.
            What do the Squealers and Dolts fans do? Complain all the time about calls? The Dolts usually get them all in their favor, so I don't see a reason for them to complain...just wondering.
             
            Susan
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: George
            Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 8:47 PM
            Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

            ***** Susan (and all others making the claims), I wish you'd stop harping on officiating as being a major problem in this game. Most Patriots fans (and other NFL fans, for that matter) complain about officials "over officiating" games. I'm among those who support the cry of "let them play!" Yes, obvious fouls should be called. But I am livid when "ticky-tack" calls are made against my team, even when the crew is doing the same to the other team.
             
            ***** Was the Giants OL holding on some of the Giants pass plays? Most likely. So why didn't we hold more often, and test their "neutrality" , instead of allowing the Giants D to make a tackling dummy out of Brady? How many Offensive Holding calls were there against the Patriots' OL? ONE! That was on Ben Watson on a relatively innocuous play. (A 15 yard pass to Faulk, that would have given the Patriots a 1st Down at their own 41. Hardly "game changing."
             
            ***** The penalty totals read: Giants 4 - 36 yds; Patriots 5 - 35 yds. Three of the penalties on the Patriots were proper calls for "False Starts" - two by "Mr False Start", our All Pro OLT, Matt Light (who must lead the league in False Starts!). The 5th was a Hold on the final kickoff by the Giants.
             
            ***** So, again, the officials "let them play", not calling a bunch of chicken-shit penalties on either team. Part of the coaching responsibility is to analyze the officiating of the game, both before and during play, and to react to it. If the game is being called "close", the coach has to have his players "back off" on holding, bumping receivers, etc. If it is being called "open", then the coach should have his players "push the envelope" a little, to see what they can get away with. As I said earlier, IF the Giants were getting away with Offensive Holding on our pass rushers, then we should have done a hell of a lot more holding on theirs, until, at the very least, we got called for a couple of them.
             
            ***** Officiating had little or nothing to do with the outcome of this game, IMO. Claiming that it did makes you sound like a Steelers or Colts fan. The Giants coaches and players won the game. The Patriots coaches and players lost it. Period!
             

            George

             


            From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
            Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:48 AM
            To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
            Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

            Hey Randy,
            Thanks for putting your thoughts down...I bet some of us here can't do it yet. I'm so upset that I need to talk about it..lol!!
            You're more gracious than I am, but I guess we do need to say congrats to the Giants, no matter HOW they got it. I'm really not convinced they won as much as we lost it and gave it away, with the refs help.
            You are right in that this loss hurts more than last year's loss in the AFC finals..but it gags me that we had to lose to TWO Mannings two years in a row. Choke, gag...now that's all we'll see in the commercials to come and in the papers. Guess we can live with the knowledge that we have 3 rings and they each only have one..so that's a consolation that might make me feel better next week or so. I know you can't win them all (the headline of the L.A. Times), but it sure seemed as if we would this time. GRRR!!
             
            Susan
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:36 AM
            Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

            I'm just starting the painful process of digging through enough of this wreck to feel out my personal  perspective.  It was a horrifically tough finish to the game and the season.  Absolutely the season was still an astounding ride and absolutely I can accept and congratulate a well deserving Giants team. .  Congratulations to the World Champion Giants.
             
            As for the Patriots it is an exceedingly stunning end to the notion of perfection and forever.  This was a fantastic team in 2007 and they will forever live with the 'but' put
            This loss hurts me considerably moree than the AFC Championship loss last year and the effect will be far more challenging for this team than that loss.  This team has tremendous amounts of work to come to terms with their failure, restructure as the off-season always requires and bring forth a new season of hope next year.  It will be a hope that has trouble forming all the way through a long season but it is the hope every team and fan must build when their season ends in loss.
             
             
            .

          • Don Diamant
            Are you kidding George? Did you watch the game? Two false starts on our guys, one with a defense player crossing the neutral zone and not trying to get back
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment

              Are you kidding George?  Did you watch the game?  Two false starts on our guys, one with a defense player crossing the neutral zone and not trying to get back and the other not all of our offensive line even set yet?  Why weren’t our guys holding too you ask?  Maybe it had to do with the ticky-tack call on Watson, a call they never made against a Giants player despite the fact it happened on almost every Giants offensive play of the game and some much more blatant holding offenses.  George, Belichick had to throw a challenge flag just to get this officiating crew to acknowledge a Giants player that missed getting out of bounds before the snap and the player wasn’t even close.  How did they miss that? 

               

              Our team still should have been able to overcome both the Giants and the officiating but to say there is no valid argument on this one-sided officiating performance is nothing short of ludicrous.  Our team makes one big play or the officials don’t run a one-sided ticky-tack game and it would have changed the outcome of the game.  But that didn’t happen and our team lost, lost a game they could have won, but they did not make the plays when they needed to be made and that is ultimately the biggest reason they lost.  George, while I value your opinion I also value other peoples opinions.  Just because some may disagree with you it doesn’t necessarily make their opinions wrong.

               

               

               

              Don

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of George
              Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 11:47 PM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

               

              ***** Susan (and all others making the claims), I wish you'd stop harping on officiating as being a major problem in this game. Most Patriots fans (and other NFL fans, for that matter) complain about officials "over officiating" games. I'm among those who support the cry of "let them play!" Yes, obvious fouls should be called. But I am livid when "ticky-tack" calls are made against my team, even when the crew is doing the same to the other team.

               

              ***** Was the Giants OL holding on some of the Giants pass plays? Most likely. So why didn't we hold more often, and test their "neutrality" , instead of allowing the Giants D to make a tackling dummy out of Brady? How many Offensive Holding calls were there against the Patriots' OL? ONE! That was on Ben Watson on a relatively innocuous play. (A 15 yard pass to Faulk, that would have given the Patriots a 1st Down at their own 41. Hardly "game changing."

               

              ***** The penalty totals read: Giants 4 - 36 yds; Patriots 5 - 35 yds. Three of the penalties on the Patriots were proper calls for "False Starts" - two by "Mr False Start", our All Pro OLT, Matt Light (who must lead the league in False Starts!). The 5th was a Hold on the final kickoff by the Giants.

               

              ***** So, again, the officials "let them play", not calling a bunch of chicken-shit penalties on either team. Part of the coaching responsibility is to analyze the officiating of the game, both before and during play, and to react to it. If the game is being called "close", the coach has to have his players "back off" on holding, bumping receivers, etc. If it is being called "open", then the coach should have his players "push the envelope" a little, to see what they can get away with. As I said earlier, IF the Giants were getting away with Offensive Holding on our pass rushers, then we should have done a hell of a lot more holding on theirs, until, at the very least, we got called for a couple of them.

               

              ***** Officiating had little or nothing to do with the outcome of this game, IMO. Claiming that it did makes you sound like a Steelers or Colts fan. The Giants coaches and players won the game. The Patriots coaches and players lost it. Period!

               

              George

               

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: patriotzip@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Susan Moore
              Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 12:48 AM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
              Subject: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

              Hey Randy,

              Thanks for putting your thoughts down...I bet some of us here can't do it yet. I'm so upset that I need to talk about it..lol!!

              You're more gracious than I am, but I guess we do need to say congrats to the Giants, no matter HOW they got it. I'm really not convinced they won as much as we lost it and gave it away, with the refs help.

              You are right in that this loss hurts more than last year's loss in the AFC finals..but it gags me that we had to lose to TWO Mannings two years in a row. Choke, gag...now that's all we'll see in the commercials to come and in the papers. Guess we can live with the knowledge that we have 3 rings and they each only have one..so that's a consolation that might make me feel better next week or so. I know you can't win them all (the headline of the L.A. Times), but it sure seemed as if we would this time. GRRR!!

               

              Susan

               

               

              ----- Original Message -----

              Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:36 AM

              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

               

              I'm just starting the painful process of digging through enough of this wreck to feel out my personal  perspective.  It was a horrifically tough finish to the game and the season.  Absolutely the season was still an astounding ride and absolutely I can accept and congratulate a well deserving Giants team. .  Congratulations to the World Champion Giants.

               

              As for the Patriots it is an exceedingly stunning end to the notion of perfection and forever.  This was a fantastic team in 2007 and they will forever live with the 'but' put

              This loss hurts me considerably moree than the AFC Championship loss last year and the effect will be far more challenging for this team than that loss.  This team has tremendous amounts of work to come to terms with their failure, restructure as the off-season always requires and bring forth a new season of hope next year.  It will be a hope that has trouble forming all the way through a long season but it is the hope every team and fan must build when their season ends in loss.

               

               

              .



            • Susan Moore
              Okay... sigh... I reluctantly get your point and see what you are trying to say. Thanks for the non-crucifiction..lol!! You are right in that we are all on the
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 6, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Okay... sigh... I reluctantly get your point and see what you are trying to say. Thanks for the non-crucifiction..lol!! You are right in that we are all on the same page here with our pain and hurting, even if some of us disagree on a few things. I will vow to not blame the refs and to not fall into the trap of other teams and their whining..honest. The funny thing is that even if a few of us complain here out of anger or frustration, the coaches and staff of the Pats do NOT seem to do the same thing. So, in general, the fans don't mirror anyone with that same complaint...that's what still makes me think we're classy in both organization and fans.
                 
                Had to laugh (alot) at your wording in this paragraph here about the Squealers squawking and the Dolts going to the Competiton Committee to have things go their way!! Hilarious...the wailing over the coverage for the pansy WRs, nice laugh for the day. Guess it's true huh? Shouldn't the DBs be doing the physical coverage, duh?
                 
                Susan
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: George
                Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 6:50 PM
                Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: [patriotzip] Congratulations Giants

                ***** As for the Squeelers and Colts, remember that Pittsburgh squawked like hell following our win over them in the 2001 Playoffs, claiming that the officials had given the game to the Patriots. The Colts, of course, are infamous for running to the league's Competition Committee (their GM, Polian, and Head Coach,  Dungy, are BOTH members), and literally having rules changed in their favor. After we beat them in 2003, they had the Competition Committee declare a "special emphasis" by NFL officials in all future games upon "Defensive Holding" and "Illegal Contact". That followed their wailing over the physical coverage techniques used by our DBs against their pansy WRs. The fans of both teams, naturally, pick up on every negative and whine that comes out of the mouths of their players and officials. So they mirror the "sore loser" crap they hear.
                 
                 


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