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RE: Browns best test yet?

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  • George
    ***** Well, since you asked.... ***** Let s start with the big picture facts. The Patriots D is rated #1 in the NFL. The Browns at #29 or so. That #1
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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      ***** Well, since you asked....

      ***** Let's start with the "big picture" facts. The Patriots D is rated #1
      in the NFL. The Browns at #29 or so. That #1 Patriots D will be challenged
      with stopping the #11 rated offense; while the Browns will, of course, be
      facing the #1 offense in the NFL, to date.

      ***** Details? Ya say ya want details? OK. Let's take a look at the Browns O
      versus the Pats D. The Browns will put a rookie up against a defensive
      minded HC who is notorious for chewing up rookies with his confusing
      schemes. Granted that the Browns HC will try to school the kid for what to
      expect, since he is very familiar with Belichick's thought process. But no
      amount of blackboard work, Polaroid photos, or practice field emulation can
      prepare a young kid for what the Patriots will throw at him when the whistle
      blows.

      ***** The Browns top RB, Jamal Lewis, is no longer a top 10 guy. He's older,
      slower, and at least a little less powerful. The RBs with the best chance of
      hurting the Pats D are the quicker guys, who can dart around and past some
      of our aging LBs. Lewis is a straight ahead guy. Straight ahead of him will
      be the best front 7 in the NFL at stopping that type of running game. Oh,
      and a guy named Harrison is returning with a chip on his shoulder. He has
      been known to make things a bit difficult for RBs.

      ***** Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are genuine receiving threats. But
      Winslow is certainly no more difficult to defend against than Antonio Gates.
      And Edwards is best, as you noted, Randy, at going deep. A checking defense,
      with confusing blitzes coming at the kid QB, will likely put a severe limit
      on the number of opportunities for such deep passes to be thrown, let alone
      to succeed.

      ***** Going the other way, the Browns D has allowed 427 total yards per
      game, 31st in the league. They've yielded 160 ypg rushing, which is 30th in
      the league; and 267 ypg passing, also 30th in the league. They have a total
      of 3 INTs, tied for 17th, and 4 sacks, tied for 27th. Opposing QBs have a
      passing rating of 101.2 against them, which is 27th. So they're pretty well
      rounded, defensively. They are equally inept in just about every department!
      :-)

      ***** Meanwhile, the Patriots offense ...aww, hell, why post the well known
      capabilities of that group here? It's a waste of everybody's time.

      ***** Let's just say that I see only two things that can possibly keep the
      Browns from being the 5th consecutive team to lose to the Patriots by more
      than 20 points. The first is the remote possibility that the players will
      have a letdown after streaking past the expected challenges from the
      Chargers and Bengals. The human mind is difficult to predict or control; and
      old man arrogance has got to be pounding on the door to the complacency
      closet in the backs of our players minds. The second "life raft" for the
      Browns to cling to is the equally remote possibility that BB will be a
      little conservative on both sides of the ball to avoid embarrassing his
      friend and protégé, Romeo. I have no doubt that BB has a lot of respect for
      Romeo; and likely as close to a feeling of affection as he has within him.

      ***** So that's it. I just don't see the Browns with any realistic chance,
      barring those psychological and emotional factors. Physically, the Patriots
      are better in every way. Then we add the fact that the game will be played
      in Gillette Stadium, in front of fans that will be in super-hyped mode to
      keep the unbeaten streak alive. Fans, I might add, that the Patriots players
      truly appreciate, and want to please.

      ***** The final, as I see it, will be Patriots ...umm ... 38 (had to do it)
      - Browns 13. (And it could be much worse for the Browns.) I see at least 5
      sacks of Anderson; and at least 2 INTs. The kid is going to get his official
      "Welcome to the NFL!" I honestly believe that the Patriots could win this
      game by 50 points if they went all out for 4 quarters.


      George
      Dogs have masters ... Cats have staff!

      -----Original Message-----
      From: patriots-bounces@... [mailto:patriots-bounces@...] On
      Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
      Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:45 PM
      To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Bosco Patriot Listt
      Subject: Browns best test yet?

      I think they do represent our biggest challenge to date. Each of the teams
      we've faced thus far has had some fatal flaws which we could exploit:
      Pennington's short range arm
      Rivers poor play and LT dependence
      Bills offensive ineptitude
      Bengals Defensive ineptitude

      Cleaveland is by no means the perfect team and they do rank 31 in yards
      allowed because (in part) their secondary is suspect if they don't get
      pressure. Offensively, they have a three pronged attack with a power run
      and a talented receiver crew which includes a very talented tight end.
      Heck Braylon Edwards is putting up Stanley Morgan numbers for getting deep
      which makes him a more talented Chad Johnson but with a real tight end
      threat to accompany him. Six men in the box won't work on this line and
      Jamal Lewis either I suspect.

      No team has adequately given Brady pressure up the middle in part because of
      their schemes and strengths and in part because of our OL strength. With
      Kopen nursing an ankle and Mount Washington across the line, the Romeo
      wrinkle may just put some pressure up the middle since our speed rusher
      numero uno (Maroney) is not an assurety by any means for htis game).

      It could be an interesting challenge.

      My preview should be up by noon time but I'm curuios on others breakdown of
      this match up.

      Go Pats!
      Zip
      & the Mighty Quinn
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    • Kevin Morgan
      I agree with George. I don t think the Browns have really accomplished anything significant or substantial. Is this a possible trap game? You could think
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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        I agree with George.  I don't think the Browns have really accomplished anything significant or substantial.  Is this a possible trap game?  You could think that, but since the Pats are so much better than most of the NFL, you could call every game a trap game.  Just remember that BB knows how to prepare his team.  Romeo may know some of Bill's tendencies, but the reverse is also true.  And as you pointed out, Rodney will be back for this game and is likely to play. 

        George <patswingr@...> wrote:
        ***** Well, since you asked....

        ***** Let's start with the "big picture" facts. The Patriots D is rated #1
        in the NFL. The Browns at #29 or so. That #1 Patriots D will be challenged
        with stopping the #11 rated offense; while the Browns will, of course, be
        facing the #1 offense in the NFL, to date.

        ***** Details? Ya say ya want details? OK. Let's take a look at the Browns O
        versus the Pats D. The Browns will put a rookie up against a defensive
        minded HC who is notorious for chewing up rookies with his confusing
        schemes. Granted that the Browns HC will try to school the kid for what to
        expect, since he is very familiar with Belichick's thought process. But no
        amount of blackboard work, Polaroid photos, or practice field emulation can
        prepare a young kid for what the Patriots will throw at him when the whistle
        blows.

        ***** The Browns top RB, Jamal Lewis, is no longer a top 10 guy. He's older,
        slower, and at least a little less powerful. The RBs with the best chance of
        hurting the Pats D are the quicker guys, who can dart around and past some
        of our aging LBs. Lewis is a straight ahead guy. Straight ahead of him will
        be the best front 7 in the NFL at stopping that type of running game. Oh,
        and a guy named Harrison is returning with a chip on his shoulder. He has
        been known to make things a bit difficult for RBs.

        ***** Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow are genuine receiving threats. But
        Winslow is certainly no more difficult to defend against than Antonio Gates.
        And Edwards is best, as you noted, Randy, at going deep. A checking defense,
        with confusing blitzes coming at the kid QB, will likely put a severe limit
        on the number of opportunities for such deep passes to be thrown, let alone
        to succeed.

        ***** Going the other way, the Browns D has allowed 427 total yards per
        game, 31st in the league. They've yielded 160 ypg rushing, which is 30th in
        the league; and 267 ypg passing, also 30th in the league. They have a total
        of 3 INTs, tied for 17th, and 4 sacks, tied for 27th. Opposing QBs have a
        passing rating of 101.2 against them, which is 27th. So they're pretty well
        rounded, defensively. They are equally inept in just about every department!
        :-)

        ***** Meanwhile, the Patriots offense ...aww, hell, why post the well known
        capabilities of that group here? It's a waste of everybody's time.

        ***** Let's just say that I see only two things that can possibly keep the
        Browns from being the 5th consecutive team to lose to the Patriots by more
        than 20 points. The first is the remote possibility that the players will
        have a letdown after streaking past the expected challenges from the
        Chargers and Bengals. The human mind is difficult to predict or control; and
        old man arrogance has got to be pounding on the door to the complacency
        closet in the backs of our players minds. The second "life raft" for the
        Browns to cling to is the equally remote possibility that BB will be a
        little conservative on both sides of the ball to avoid embarrassing his
        friend and protégé, Romeo. I have no doubt that BB has a lot of respect for
        Romeo; and likely as close to a feeling of affection as he has within him.

        ***** So that's it. I just don't see the Browns with any realistic chance,
        barring those psychological and emotional factors. Physically, the Patriots
        are better in every way. Then we add the fact that the game will be played
        in Gillette Stadium, in front of fans that will be in super-hyped mode to
        keep the unbeaten streak alive. Fans, I might add, that the Patriots players
        truly appreciate, and want to please.

        ***** The final, as I see it, will be Patriots ...umm ... 38 (had to do it)
        - Browns 13. (And it could be much worse for the Browns.) I see at least 5
        sacks of Anderson; and at least 2 INTs. The kid is going to get his official
        "Welcome to the NFL!" I honestly believe that the Patriots could win this
        game by 50 points if they went all out for 4 quarters.

        George
        Dogs have masters ... Cats have staff!

        -----Original Message-----
        From: patriots-bounces@ bosco.net [mailto:patriots-bounces@ bosco.net] On
        Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
        Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:45 PM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogro ups.com
        Cc: Bosco Patriot Listt
        Subject: Browns best test yet?

        I think they do represent our biggest challenge to date. Each of the teams
        we've faced thus far has had some fatal flaws which we could exploit:
        Pennington's short range arm
        Rivers poor play and LT dependence
        Bills offensive ineptitude
        Bengals Defensive ineptitude

        Cleaveland is by no means the perfect team and they do rank 31 in yards
        allowed because (in part) their secondary is suspect if they don't get
        pressure. Offensively, they have a three pronged attack with a power run
        and a talented receiver crew which includes a very talented tight end.
        Heck Braylon Edwards is putting up Stanley Morgan numbers for getting deep
        which makes him a more talented Chad Johnson but with a real tight end
        threat to accompany him. Six men in the box won't work on this line and
        Jamal Lewis either I suspect.

        No team has adequately given Brady pressure up the middle in part because of
        their schemes and strengths and in part because of our OL strength. With
        Kopen nursing an ankle and Mount Washington across the line, the Romeo
        wrinkle may just put some pressure up the middle since our speed rusher
        numero uno (Maroney) is not an assurety by any means for htis game).

        It could be an interesting challenge.

        My preview should be up by noon time but I'm curuios on others breakdown of
        this match up.

        Go Pats!
        Zip
        & the Mighty Quinn
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      • Don Diamant
        The Browns have shown themselves to have a pretty solid offense that can handle a mediocre defense easily. I think their offense may provide our defense with
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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          The Browns have shown themselves to have a pretty solid offense that can handle a mediocre defense easily.  I think their offense may provide our defense with a challenge but I think our defense is more than up to that challenge.  Their defense however leaves a lot to be desired.  But they have a wildcard in Romeo Crennel.  Not only is he a solid defensive coach but he knows Belichick well.  If we are not careful this could easily lead to a trap game.  Our team needs to establish themselves early.  We need to score on our first drive and we need to stop them on their first drive to establish the tempo of the game.  If we can do this I think we can beat them into submission and dominate the game.  If we do not do this we may find ourselves trying to catch up with the proverbial run away train.

           

          Don

        • David Brunat
          While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and will exploit. If they fail to get pressure on Brady he will pick
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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            While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and will exploit.  If they fail to get pressure on Brady he will pick them apart much like the has done to the other teams we've played.  I look at what Cincy did to them a few weeks ago and shudder to think what we may accomplish.  I think Dallas will be our first real test.  Everyone else looks like cannon fodder.
             
            Oh by the way, my Pop Warner football team is 5-0!  You can follow the exploits of the University Cougar Junior Pee Wees at universitycougars.com.
             
            The BrewGnat

            "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
            I think they do represent our biggest challenge to date. Each of the teams we've faced thus far has had some fatal flaws which we could exploit:
            Pennington's short range arm
            Rivers poor play and LT dependence
            Bills offensive ineptitude
            Bengals Defensive ineptitude

            Cleaveland is by no means the perfect team and they do rank 31 in yards allowed because (in part) their secondary is suspect if they don't get pressure. Offensively, they have a three pronged attack with a power run and a talented receiver crew which includes a very talented tight end. Heck Braylon Edwards is putting up Stanley Morgan numbers for getting deep which makes him a more talented Chad Johnson but with a real tight end threat to accompany him. Six men in the box won't work on this line and Jamal Lewis either I suspect.

            No team has adequately given Brady pressure up the middle in part because of their schemes and strengths and in part because of our OL strength. With Kopen nursing an ankle and Mount Washington across the line, the Romeo wrinkle may just put some pressure up the middle since our speed rusher numero uno (Maroney) is not an assurety by any means for htis game).

            It could be an interesting challenge.

            My preview should be up by noon time but I'm curuios on others breakdown of this match up.

            Go Pats!
            Zip
            & the Mighty Quinn
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          • Kevin Morgan
            Go Cougars! David Brunat wrote: While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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              Go Cougars!

              David Brunat <brewgnat@...> wrote:
              While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and will exploit.  If they fail to get pressure on Brady he will pick them apart much like the has done to the other teams we've played.  I look at what Cincy did to them a few weeks ago and shudder to think what we may accomplish.  I think Dallas will be our first real test.  Everyone else looks like cannon fodder.
               
              Oh by the way, my Pop Warner football team is 5-0!  You can follow the exploits of the University Cougar Junior Pee Wees at universitycougars. com.
               
              The BrewGnat

              "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@sprynet. com> wrote:
              I think they do represent our biggest challenge to date. Each of the teams we've faced thus far has had some fatal flaws which we could exploit:
              Pennington's short range arm
              Rivers poor play and LT dependence
              Bills offensive ineptitude
              Bengals Defensive ineptitude

              Cleaveland is by no means the perfect team and they do rank 31 in yards allowed because (in part) their secondary is suspect if they don't get pressure. Offensively, they have a three pronged attack with a power run and a talented receiver crew which includes a very talented tight end. Heck Braylon Edwards is putting up Stanley Morgan numbers for getting deep which makes him a more talented Chad Johnson but with a real tight end threat to accompany him. Six men in the box won't work on this line and Jamal Lewis either I suspect.

              No team has adequately given Brady pressure up the middle in part because of their schemes and strengths and in part because of our OL strength. With Kopen nursing an ankle and Mount Washington across the line, the Romeo wrinkle may just put some pressure up the middle since our speed rusher numero uno (Maroney) is not an assurety by any means for htis game).

              It could be an interesting challenge.

              My preview should be up by noon time but I'm curuios on others breakdown of this match up.

              Go Pats!
              Zip
              & the Mighty Quinn
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            • RandyZ. Pierce
              ... From: David Brunat While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and will exploit. Which flaw is that? If they
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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                ----- Original Message -----
                 
                While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have a flaw we can and will exploit. 
                 
                Which flaw is that?
                 
                 
                If they fail to get pressure on Brady he will pick them apart
                 
                That's more of a feature on us than a flaw on them.  In fact it's why I think from my preview that Romeo will try to exploit us hard up the middle.  Washington is mamoth over Kopen's bum ankle and while our Guards are solid support they may try to flood us there to move Tom and bat down the lanes of middle slants while risking the runs outside.  They have some pass rush capability but right now our line and Brady make it very tough to get at him from the outside.
                 
                 
                we've played.  I look at what Cincy did to them a few weeks ago and shudder to think what we may accomplish.  I think
                 
                Cinci lost to them...
                but I get your point.  THough we didn't torch a very bad Cinci defense so that doesn't entirely hold true.
                 
                Still predicts a solid win and no doubt this is only the best test yet (if that) as the Cowboys, Colts and Steelers will be better tests eventually.  We aren't there yet though...
                 
                Go Pats!
                 
                Zip
                 
              • George
                ***** Randy, I have 2 counters to your concern about the potential for pressure on Brady from the Browns. (One of these I mentioned to you off-list, so
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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                  ***** Randy, I have 2 counters to your concern about the potential for
                  pressure on Brady from the Browns. (One of these I mentioned to you
                  off-list, so apologies for the repeat.) First is the fact that your emphasis
                  on the power of Ted Washington ignores the fact that he is not likely to be
                  out there on the majority of the Browns D snaps. He's 39 years old, and,
                  according to the stats shown on ESPN, has only 6 tackles, and no sacks, in 4
                  games. That tells me that he's probably playing only on "running downs" to
                  stuff the middle. The second point is that the Pats have shown that they
                  will quickly respond to pressure up the middle by going to 2 RBs, or an
                  extra TE/H-Back who moves to the middle at the snap, as they did against the
                  Bengals.

                  ***** I do not believe that the Browns will put an exceptionally effective
                  rush on Brady. Most of their pass rushing success has come from their LBs.
                  BB is certainly aware of that, and will have our TEs and RBs prepared to
                  focus on picking them up. Thus far, the team has done a better job of
                  picking up blitzes than any BB team I can recall. And then there's that
                  "reduction in O-Holding calls" that was mentioned by someone earlier!


                  George
                  "I don't have a whole lot of what-ifs. We won three Super Bowls," (Tom
                  Brady)


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: patriots-bounces@... [mailto:patriots-bounces@...] On
                  Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
                  Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 1:56 AM
                  To: David Brunat
                  Cc: Bosco Patriot Listt; patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Browns best test yet?


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: David Brunat

                  While this team is arguably our best test yet the reality is they too have
                  a flaw we can and will exploit.

                  Which flaw is that?


                  If they fail to get pressure on Brady he will pick them apart

                  That's more of a feature on us than a flaw on them. In fact it's why I
                  think from my preview that Romeo will try to exploit us hard up the middle.
                  Washington is mamoth over Kopen's bum ankle and while our Guards are solid
                  support they may try to flood us there to move Tom and bat down the lanes of
                  middle slants while risking the runs outside. They have some pass rush
                  capability but right now our line and Brady make it very tough to get at him
                  from the outside.


                  we've played. I look at what Cincy did to them a few weeks ago and
                  shudder to think what we may accomplish. I think

                  Cinci lost to them...
                  but I get your point. THough we didn't torch a very bad Cinci defense so
                  that doesn't entirely hold true.

                  Still predicts a solid win and no doubt this is only the best test yet (if
                  that) as the Cowboys, Colts and Steelers will be better tests eventually.
                  We aren't there yet though...

                  Go Pats!

                  Zip
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                • RandyZ. Pierce
                  ... From: George according to the stats shown on ESPN, has only 6 tackles, and no sacks, in 4 games. That tells me that he s probably playing only on running
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 4, 2007
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: George
                    according to the stats shown on ESPN, has only 6 tackles, and no sacks, in 4
                    games. That tells me that he's probably playing only on "running downs" to
                    stuff the middle.
                     
                    ** No doubt he's playing less than i other days but stats from the nose tackle aren't the best measure as it's not the stat position, it opens things for the others around to exploit more than doing the exploiting.
                     
                    The second point is that the Pats have shown that they
                    will quickly respond to pressure up the middle by going to 2 RBs, or an
                    extra TE/H-Back who moves to the middle at the snap, as they did against the
                    Bengals.
                     
                    **  **  Very likely and were I the opposition this would be what I'd like to force otu of them.  Brady had most of his incompletions from this formation against the Bengals (according to Reiss) and in general it is the poison I'd pick if I had to scheme against the Pats with that Browns defense.
                     
                     
                    Definitely our best protection scheme in many years and that makes me more convinced that it isn't going to reach us from the outside.  Better rushers have already failed trying that approach.
                     
                    Go Pats!
                    Zip
                     
                  • Frank
                    Although we are ahead of the Browns in every catagory (offense, defense, points for and against), their opponents have a record of 8- 8. Much better than the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 5, 2007
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                      Although we are ahead of the Browns in every catagory (offense,
                      defense, points for and against), their opponents have a record of 8-
                      8. Much better than the 4-12 record of our opponents. But I do
                      believe that the strength of schedule difference is largely
                      overshadowed by the point differential. We've outscored opponents by
                      25 points per game. The Browns have actually been outscored by their
                      opponents by a couple points per game.

                      Considering our lethal #2 ranked offense, and their woeful #31
                      defense, It's easy to see another 20+ point win. I'm not sold on the
                      return of Jamal Lewis, and Winslow is fighting with a shoulder
                      problem. Braylon Edwards is a legitimate threat, but BB has
                      consistently been able to take away an opponents most viable weapon,
                      and force them to go elsewhere.

                      One must also consider a rookie QB facing a Belichick D for the
                      first time. I'm sure Romeo has been schooling him all week on what
                      to expect, but BB is well aware of that, and will have some
                      interesting wrinkles for the kid.

                      Well, they broke the string of 38's last week, so here my
                      prediction... Pats - 41, Browns - 23

                      fdb

                      --- In patriotzip@yahoogroups.com, "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: George
                      > according to the stats shown on ESPN, has only 6 tackles, and no
                      sacks, in 4
                      > games. That tells me that he's probably playing only on "running
                      downs" to
                      > stuff the middle.
                      >
                      > ** No doubt he's playing less than i other days but stats from
                      the nose tackle aren't the best measure as it's not the stat
                      position, it opens things for the others around to exploit more than
                      doing the exploiting.
                      >
                      > The second point is that the Pats have shown that they
                      > will quickly respond to pressure up the middle by going to 2
                      RBs, or an
                      > extra TE/H-Back who moves to the middle at the snap, as they did
                      against the
                      > Bengals.
                      >
                      > ** ** Very likely and were I the opposition this would be what
                      I'd like to force otu of them. Brady had most of his incompletions
                      from this formation against the Bengals (according to Reiss) and in
                      general it is the poison I'd pick if I had to scheme against the
                      Pats with that Browns defense.
                      >
                      >
                      > Definitely our best protection scheme in many years and that
                      makes me more convinced that it isn't going to reach us from the
                      outside. Better rushers have already failed trying that approach.
                      >
                      > Go Pats!
                      > Zip
                      >
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