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Rule clarification on Completion to Mankins

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  • RandyZ. Pierce
    Brady had a completion to Mankins for -9 yards in which I m told the ball was knocked out of his hands. Doesn t that prevent the illegal touching rule? If
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007
      Brady had a completion to Mankins for -9 yards in which I'm told the ball was knocked out of his hands.  Doesn't that prevent the illegal touching rule?  If the pass was not forward (which I was also told) then isn't it a lateral and not a completion anyhow?
       
      It shows up in the stats as a completion, there was a penalty that I presumed owuld have nullified it and yet it seems like it was knocked out of his hands by the defender anyhow to be a fumble - unless some tuck rule application was in effect. 
       
      can anyone clarify for me what happened on that play?
       
      Go Pats!
      Zip
       
    • George
      ***** Randy, as I interpreted that play, it was a pass by Brady, since his arm was going forward when it was hit. That part of it was, IMO, a tuck rule
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007
        ***** Randy, as I interpreted that play, it was a "pass" by Brady, since
        his arm was going forward when it was hit. That part of it was, IMO, a "tuck
        rule" situation. The ball did appear to move either laterally, or perhaps
        even back a bit. That, however, would be irrelevant, since it was "illegally
        touched" by an OL.

        ***** Now, as to the statistical result, remember that the penalty was
        declined by the Bengals. The play began at the Bengals 47. When the Bengals
        denied the penalty, the ball was placed at the spot where Mankins took the
        knee (Patriots 44). So, it was a completed pass, for -9 yards. The great run
        by Stallworth on the WR screen followed, wiping out the deficit.


        George
        Dogs have masters ... Cats have staff!

        -----Original Message-----
        From: patriots-bounces@... [mailto:patriots-bounces@...] On
        Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
        Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:13 PM
        To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Bosco Patriot Listt
        Subject: Rule clarification on Completion to Mankins

        Brady had a completion to Mankins for -9 yards in which I'm told the ball
        was knocked out of his hands. Doesn't that prevent the illegal touching
        rule? If the pass was not forward (which I was also told) then isn't it a
        lateral and not a completion anyhow?

        It shows up in the stats as a completion, there was a penalty that I
        presumed owuld have nullified it and yet it seems like it was knocked out of
        his hands by the defender anyhow to be a fumble - unless some tuck rule
        application was in effect.

        can anyone clarify for me what happened on that play?

        Go Pats!
        Zip
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      • Don Diamant
        I can tell you what I saw. Brady was hit while his arm was moving back and lost the ball. The ball flew up and backwards. Mankins correctly assumed that it
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007

          I can tell you what I saw.  Brady was hit while his arm was moving back and lost the ball.  The ball flew up and backwards.  Mankins correctly assumed that it was a fumble and took possession of the ball.  He put his knee down but probably should have tried to get it to at least the line of scrimmage.  The officials determined it to be a forward pass despite the ball careening back behind Brady and despite that his arm never went forward so they ruled illegal touching, an error on their part. 

           

          Don Diamant

           


          From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RandyZ. Pierce
          Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:13 AM
          To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Bosco Patriot Listt
          Subject: [patriotzip] Rule clarification on Completion to Mankins

           

          Brady had a completion to Mankins for -9 yards in which I'm told the ball was knocked out of his hands.  Doesn't that prevent the illegal touching rule?  If the pass was not forward (which I was also told) then isn't it a lateral and not a completion anyhow?

           

          It shows up in the stats as a completion, there was a penalty that I presumed owuld have nullified it and yet it seems like it was knocked out of his hands by the defender anyhow to be a fumble - unless some tuck rule application was in effect. 

           

          can anyone clarify for me what happened on that play?

           

          Go Pats!

          Zip

           

        • sean carmichael
          Brady was hit as he was brining his arm forward for a pass, ala the tuck rule , instead of going down, the ball went up, Mankins stepped forward and caught
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007
            Brady was hit as he was brining his arm forward for a pass, ala the "tuck rule", instead of going down, the ball went up, Mankins stepped forward and caught the ball to keep it from being caught by a Bengal, then took a knee to keep from being stripped of it, it was ruled a forward pass, so it was an illegal touch

            "RandyZ. Pierce" <alaric02@...> wrote:
            Brady had a completion to Mankins for -9 yards in which I'm told the ball was knocked out of his hands.  Doesn't that prevent the illegal touching rule?  If the pass was not forward (which I was also told) then isn't it a lateral and not a completion anyhow?
             
            It shows up in the stats as a completion, there was a penalty that I presumed owuld have nullified it and yet it seems like it was knocked out of his hands by the defender anyhow to be a fumble - unless some tuck rule application was in effect. 
             
            can anyone clarify for me what happened on that play?
             
            Go Pats!
            Zip
             


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          • Don Diamant
            If his arm was coming forward then the ball would have tumbled in front of Brady unless it struck something which could possibly cause it to be redirected,
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 2, 2007

              If his arm was coming forward then the ball would have tumbled in front of Brady unless it struck something which could possibly cause it to be redirected, possibly backwards, but up and back 27 feet?  I watched the replay closely and I saw his arm hit while it was moving back not forward.  But its all meaningless now, as officially it is a forward pass and illegally touched by Mankins though I doubt he is being told by the coaching staff to not do it again.  I still feel that it was a good call on Mankins part.

               

              Don

               


              From: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com [mailto:patriotzip@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean carmichael
              Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:31 PM
              To: patriotzip@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [patriotzip] Rule clarification on Completion to Mankins

               

              Brady was hit as he was brining his arm forward for a pass, ala the "tuck rule", instead of going down, the ball went up, Mankins stepped forward and caught the ball to keep it from being caught by a Bengal, then took a knee to keep from being stripped of it, it was ruled a forward pass, so it was an illegal touch


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