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Re: [panflute-world] Large Panflutes

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  • kbudd@interlog.com
    Re inserts etc. I have noticed for a long time that a bottle, (like a beer bottle) can produce very low sounds for its length. The sound is the more hollow
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1 3:18 AM
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      Re inserts etc.

      I have noticed for a long time that a bottle, (like a beer bottle) can
      produce very low sounds for its length. The sound is the more "hollow"
      sound of an ocarina. Such bottles also produce the sound very quickly, far
      quicker than for a straight long tube. However...the sound is quite
      different than a simple tube. It certainly would be very possible to make a
      short panflute using tubes that are made to bulge out in the front and back
      of the pan flute, but still maintaining the narrow side width.

      Another interesting alternative would be to, in essence, "fold" the tubes
      up the inside, thus maintaining the effective length, but shortening the
      overall size greatly. A bassoon operates this way, as does a bass flute.

      Another area to experiment with is to make all tubes conical, that is,
      wider at the bottom. This also produces a bottle-like sound, and a much
      lower note for the length than a straight tube. A clarinet is made this
      way. Again, in order to maintain the narrow width, the tubes could widen
      only at the front and back...a squashed tube in other words. Again, of
      course, the tone quality, the timbre, is altered. Still nice, but
      different.

      Kevin
    • bnglydll
      Hi Ken and many thanks, I didn t know about the inserts in the large Toyos. That s very interesting. The Preda inserts form part of the audience side bevelled
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1 5:02 AM
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        Hi Ken and many thanks,
        I didn't know about the inserts in the large Toyos. That's very interesting.
        The Preda inserts form part of the audience side bevelled edge and don't
        intrude down into the tube beyond 5mm or so. I am looking forward to
        experimenting with inserts (once the first flute is finished!!!).
        Best Wishes
        David.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Ken Webster <Ken_Webster@...>
        To: <panflute-world@egroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:20 AM
        Subject: Re: [panflute-world] Large Panflutes


        > Hi David
        >
        > If you are going to make long wide tubes you will find that it
        > becomes progressively more difficult to sound wider longer tubes.
        > Long tubes need a larger bore to sound the primary tone
        > but can become too large for the embouchure.
        >
        > Consider that the large S.Americian Toyos use an insert in the top
        > to reduce the embouchure to a more manageable size. These
        > inserts are around 3 - 4 mm wall thickness and 25 - 35 mm long.
        > The sound is further reinforced if the lower inside edge of the
        > insert is chamfered to around 45 deg so the whole tube is like a
        > bottle shape inside. This way you get a lot of power and
        > resonance from the low notes with much less air.
        >
        > I think the sloped preda inserts are a similar idea but probably
        > going for a different sound also perhaps widening the embouchure
        > edge for more volume.
        >
        > For toyos, I tried tapering the insert bore but obtained the best
        > results from an almost cylindrical insert bore and very importantly
        > chamfered on its lower inside edge.
        >
        >
        > Ken Webster websterk@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >>> "bnglydll" <bnglydll@...> 04/24 3:57 AM >>>
        > Getting along with the 22 tubed (G1 to G4) Nai I am presently making and
        having a lot of wide bore bamboo will mean a large , possibly double bass
        flute will be my next venture (added challenge of drilling through nodes!!).
        > Obviously the very low notes are quite week but do provide for some
        interesting effects and harmonics. Producing nice round and rich very low
        notes on the Panflute requires a lot of air. I find that a fairly tight and
        narrow embouchure produces the "South American" sound whillst a slack and
        open embouchure (and masses of air to the point of passing out) produces a
        solid less "airy" tone. Ion Preda seems to use an interesting construction
        technique on his double-bass flutes using a sloped bamboo insert on the
        audience side of the the very lowest registers. (see attached jpeg) This
        seems to make the tubes "speak" more quickly........I wonder what principles
        are at work with all these things????? any observations????
        > David
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets
        > you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/3012/2/_/1617/_/957140502/
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Marilyn J. Heed
        Hi, On the Toyo that I have, the insert is as Ken describes, but the opening to blow across is between 9/16 and 5/8 inch--easy to get sound out of a 54 inch
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1 8:55 AM
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          Hi,

          On the Toyo that I have, the insert is as Ken describes, but the
          opening
          to blow across is between 9/16 and 5/8 inch--easy to get sound out of a 54
          inch
          long pipe. The outside width of the longest pipes is about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2
          inches.

          Marilyn

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ken Webster [mailto:Ken_Webster@...]
          Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 6:20 PM
          To: panflute-world@egroups.com
          Subject: Re: [panflute-world] Large Panflutes


          Hi David

          If you are going to make long wide tubes you will find that it
          becomes progressively more difficult to sound wider longer tubes.
          Long tubes need a larger bore to sound the primary tone
          but can become too large for the embouchure.

          Consider that the large S.Americian Toyos use an insert in the top
          to reduce the embouchure to a more manageable size. These
          inserts are around 3 - 4 mm wall thickness and 25 - 35 mm long.
          The sound is further reinforced if the lower inside edge of the
          insert is chamfered to around 45 deg so the whole tube is like a
          bottle shape inside. This way you get a lot of power and
          resonance from the low notes with much less air.

          I think the sloped preda inserts are a similar idea but probably
          going for a different sound also perhaps widening the embouchure
          edge for more volume.

          For toyos, I tried tapering the insert bore but obtained the best
          results from an almost cylindrical insert bore and very importantly
          chamfered on its lower inside edge.


          Ken Webster websterk@...





          >>> "bnglydll" <bnglydll@...> 04/24 3:57 AM >>>
          Getting along with the 22 tubed (G1 to G4) Nai I am presently making and
          having a lot of wide bore bamboo will mean a large , possibly double bass
          flute will be my next venture (added challenge of drilling through nodes!!).
          Obviously the very low notes are quite week but do provide for some
          interesting effects and harmonics. Producing nice round and rich very low
          notes on the Panflute requires a lot of air. I find that a fairly tight and
          narrow embouchure produces the "South American" sound whillst a slack and
          open embouchure (and masses of air to the point of passing out) produces a
          solid less "airy" tone. Ion Preda seems to use an interesting construction
          technique on his double-bass flutes using a sloped bamboo insert on the
          audience side of the the very lowest registers. (see attached jpeg) This
          seems to make the tubes "speak" more quickly........I wonder what principles
          are at work with all these things????? any observations????
          David


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Get your money connected @ OnMoney.com - the first Web site that lets
          you see and manage all of your finances all in one place.
          http://click.egroups.com/1/3012/2/_/1617/_/957140502/
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