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RE: [pancham] - Sapan C

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  • Sharma, Pushkar (NINDS)
    I wonder why Anuradha P did not sing many more songs for RDB. Of course, Lata and Asha were around that could explain it. I find Anuradha P a talented singer.
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2000
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      I wonder why Anuradha P did not sing many more songs for RDB. Of course,
      Lata and Asha were around that could explain it. I find Anuradha P a
      talented singer. Personally, I like her more than Kavita K. She has a better
      voice than KK. IMHO, her best work was with Jaidev for Dooriyan especially
      the song Zindagi mere ghar aana.... and Zingai mein jab tumhare......
      Is it Jaidev picked her up due to SDB connection?
      If she wanted to be next LM she shouldn't have stuck it out with T-series.

      Pushkar
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ketan
      To: pancham@egroups.com
      Sent: 7/31/00 11:16 PM
      Subject: RE: [pancham] - Sapan C



      Just a quick word. Anuradha got her break in Hindi films in Abhimaan
      where
      she sings a sholka. That is how Amitabh first notices Jaya in the movie.
      SDB's assistants were Anil, Arun and Maruti Rao.

      Lastly, SapanC's assistants for Naya Nasha, Zameer etc were Basu,
      Manohari
      and Maruti.


      Ketan


      On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Ankush Chinchankar wrote:

      > Pushkar
      > Yes you are right. Anil Mohile is the same who
      > conducts all LM concerts. It was Anil + Arun in
      > marathi film music ewho changed the music style of
      > Marathi songs from "Lavani" style to music close to
      > hindi film music. Arun was a talented tune maker and
      > Anil was a good arranger. Arun Poudwal (incidently he
      > was my mama) married to an orchestra singer called
      > "Anuradha Nadkarni" now Anuradha powdwal. She had high
      > aims in life and wanted to become second Lata (which
      > she still wants to). She was a perfect track singer in
      > absence of Lata and Lata used to dub her track for all
      > Hindi songs of lata. Later Anil and Arun seperated out
      > due to problems between Lata and Anuradha. Anil
      > preffered staying with Lata and Arun started seperate
      > track with Gulshan Kumar. Next part of the story is
      > known to all of you. But before ending I want to say
      > that during the period Anil Arun assisted SDB, all the
      > songs used to be just like RDB. Very talented pair.
      > Ankush
      >
      >
      >
      > --- "Sharma, Pushkar (NINDS)" <sharmap@...>
      > wrote:
      > > Ketan,
      > >
      > > Good job and checking things out. I also feel that
      > > SapanC was more than 47
      > > years of age, I thought he was same age as RD. I
      > > don't have any proof
      > > though.
      > > Is this Anil Mohile the same guy who was the MD/
      > > arranger for the Lata M big
      > > concert in Mumbai couple of years ago? Just curious.
      > >
      > > Pushkar
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Ketan
      > > To: pancham@egroups.com
      > > Sent: 7/31/00 7:38 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [pancham] - Sapan C
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Allright. I think I have it sort of figured out.
      > > Partial thanks to
      > > Sherlock Shashi for pointing out that Sapan was 47
      > > when he died which
      > > made
      > > my mind think along those lines and for his
      > > suggestion that the Sapan
      > > might be a completely different Sapan.
      > >
      > > The info given below is after I researched and
      > > crosschecked Nerurkar's
      > > books on Lata/Asha/RDB, another Nerurkar like dude's
      > > book on Rafi and
      > > the
      > > Geet Kosh for the 1971-1980 period. The 60's book
      > > does not list the MD's
      > > assistants but most of the 70's movies do.
      > >
      > > So here it is :
      > >
      > > --Zameer was composed by ONLY SapanC. No Jagmohan
      > > here. My fault in that
      > > too.
      > >
      > > --Sapan/Jagmohan are two completely different
      > > people. Sapan here is
      > > Sapan
      > > Sengupta and Jagmohan is Jagmohan Bakshi. This is
      > > not the same as
      > > 'Sursagar' Jagmohan(before we get confused over this
      > > now) who sang
      > > "Mujhe
      > > na sapno se behlaaon, who was a contemporary of KC
      > > Dey, Saigal, Pankaj
      > > Mullick in the 30's and 40's. This Jagmohan is the
      > > guy who sang in SDB's
      > > Taxi Driver the song "Dekho Maane Nahin" back in
      > > 1954.
      > >
      > > --The statement that RDB heard "Tum bhi chalo" over
      > > the radio, football
      > > match, blah blah is very unlikely. In 1971 a SapanC
      > > was his assistant
      > > for
      > > Paraya Dhan, in 1973 for Aa Gale Lag Ja and for
      > > Anamika. So assuming
      > > that
      > > his assistant SapanC is the same as the MD of
      > > Zameer(please not another
      > > SapanC), the radio incident is either false or it
      > > must be about a
      > > completely different movie/song/incident.
      > >
      > > --Basu/Manohari/Maruti seemed to be his assistants
      > > for the most part but
      > > as Shashi said, they seemed to be more interested in
      > > keeping the home
      > > fires burning. Manohari(if it is the same one) has
      > > assisted Hemant Kumar
      > > in the 70's. Infact Sharmilee had 5 assistant
      > > MD's--Basu, Manohari,
      > > Maruti, Anil and Arun. The Anil here is Anil Mohile
      > > and Arun is Arun
      > > Paudwal. Interestingly for Tere Mere Sapne the asst
      > > is Meera Dev but
      > > there
      > > is a separate mention for "orchestra by
      > > Basu/Manohari".
      > >
      > >
      > > My conclusions --all IMHO :
      > >
      > > It is possible therefore that Zameer was ghost
      > > composed by RDB or maybe
      > > a
      > > tune or two was handed to SapanC by RDB. However
      > > Call Girl, Abhi to Jee
      > > Lain, etc are by Sapan-Jagmohan not SapanC, so their
      > > creativity stands
      > > on
      > > its own. Incidentally they seemed to have been
      > > around since the early
      > > 60's. One of their assistants for Call Girl was
      > > incidentally a certain
      > > "Dil to Pagal Hai" Uttam Singh, who was also the
      > > assistant to Naushad
      > > around the same time in another forgettable movie.
      > >
      > > Could SapanC have been 47 or so when he died? Maybe.
      > > That would put him
      > > at
      > > around 21 or so during Paraya Dhan. Possible. That
      > > makes him 10 years
      > > younger than RDB. Vinay could be right about him
      > > being dumped on the
      > > Burman household and his growing up there. Could he
      > > then have done the
      > > antara for Bhoot Bungla and Haqeeqat? He would be 12
      > > and 14 respectively
      > > when those two movies came out? Possible? Yes.
      > > Probable? No. So how does
      > > that reconcile with what RD told Ankush? The only
      > > answer that I can
      > > think
      > > of is..SapanC could not have been just 47 when he
      > > died. Assume he was
      > > older..say by 8 years or so. That would make him as
      > > being born around
      > > 1941 or so. Then he would be 21 for Bhoot Bungla and
      > > 23 for Haqeeqat.
      > > Ofcourse this is a very simple explanation and
      > > fudging numbers like his
      > > age, hardly helps to solve the dilemna so please
      > > don't treat this as the
      > > final word ok. This is just one possibility.
      > >
      > > That leaves open the following questions :
      > >
      > > What song was it that RDB referred to on that
      > > Jaimala program and who
      > > was the MD whose song he heard at that football
      > > game? --No solid proof,
      > > all based on what we have read or heard.
      > >
      > >
      > > OR
      > >
      > > Who was the person who composed those mini-tunes for
      > > Bhoot Bungla and
      > > Haqeeqat?--Here is where we have first hand info.
      > > Ankush says he pointed
      > > to SapanC. Which means SapanC was old enough to
      > > compose for those
      > > movies.
      > >
      > > OR
      > >
      > > At what age did SapanC die?--Should be easy to
      > > ascertain from friends,
      > > newspaper articles.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Ketan
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 pancham@... wrote:
      > >
      > > > Asif:
      > > >
      > > > True - Raj Tilak made 36 Ghante - and it is very
      > > much possible that
      > > > Raj Tilak introduced Sapan C to BR Chopra - thus
      > > Zameer. And Sapan C
      > > > may've joined Pancham in between - hence the
      > > Pancham influence in
      > > > Zameer than in 36 Ghante.
      > > >
      > > > But this is all khayali-pulao. I'll make it a
      > > point to meet Ravi
      > > > Chopra on my next visit - more insight. It's
      > > always interesting to
      > > > know how these decisions were made.
      > > >
      > > > BTW Raj Tilak took Pancham for his next venture -
      > > Mukti. And Ravi
      > > > Chopra took Pancham for all his big ventures -
      > > Burning Train, Mazdoor,
      > > > etc. So maybe after Sapan C got into Pancham's
      > > camp - Pancham got
      > > > entry into BR Chopra camp - a staunch Ravi banner.
      > > Maybe...maybe!
      > > >
      > > > Shashi
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > As for RD introducing Sapan C (or whomever) to
      > > B.R. Chopra for
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
      >
      >
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    • Asif Alvi
      Good job, Ketan! When did Sapan C. die? Asif ... which made ... Sapan ... Nerurkar s ... and the ... MD s ... that ... Sapan ... sang Mujhe ... Pankaj ...
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2000
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        Good job, Ketan! When did Sapan C. die?

        Asif
        --- In pancham@egroups.com, Ketan <ketan@i...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Allright. I think I have it sort of figured out. Partial thanks to
        > Sherlock Shashi for pointing out that Sapan was 47 when he died
        which made
        > my mind think along those lines and for his suggestion that the
        Sapan
        > might be a completely different Sapan.
        >
        > The info given below is after I researched and crosschecked
        Nerurkar's
        > books on Lata/Asha/RDB, another Nerurkar like dude's book on Rafi
        and the
        > Geet Kosh for the 1971-1980 period. The 60's book does not list the
        MD's
        > assistants but most of the 70's movies do.
        >
        > So here it is :
        >
        > --Zameer was composed by ONLY SapanC. No Jagmohan here. My fault in
        that
        > too.
        >
        > --Sapan/Jagmohan are two completely different people. Sapan here is
        Sapan
        > Sengupta and Jagmohan is Jagmohan Bakshi. This is not the same as
        > 'Sursagar' Jagmohan(before we get confused over this now) who
        sang "Mujhe
        > na sapno se behlaaon, who was a contemporary of KC Dey, Saigal,
        Pankaj
        > Mullick in the 30's and 40's. This Jagmohan is the guy who sang in
        SDB's
        > Taxi Driver the song "Dekho Maane Nahin" back in 1954.
        >
        > --The statement that RDB heard "Tum bhi chalo" over the radio,
        football
        > match, blah blah is very unlikely. In 1971 a SapanC was his
        assistant for
        > Paraya Dhan, in 1973 for Aa Gale Lag Ja and for Anamika. So
        assuming that
        > his assistant SapanC is the same as the MD of Zameer(please not
        another
        > SapanC), the radio incident is either false or it must be about a
        > completely different movie/song/incident.
        >
        > --Basu/Manohari/Maruti seemed to be his assistants for the most
        part but
        > as Shashi said, they seemed to be more interested in keeping the
        home
        > fires burning. Manohari(if it is the same one) has assisted Hemant
        Kumar
        > in the 70's. Infact Sharmilee had 5 assistant MD's--Basu, Manohari,
        > Maruti, Anil and Arun. The Anil here is Anil Mohile and Arun is Arun
        > Paudwal. Interestingly for Tere Mere Sapne the asst is Meera Dev
        but there
        > is a separate mention for "orchestra by Basu/Manohari".
        >
        >
        > My conclusions --all IMHO :
        >
        > It is possible therefore that Zameer was ghost composed by RDB or
        maybe a
        > tune or two was handed to SapanC by RDB. However Call Girl, Abhi to
        Jee
        > Lain, etc are by Sapan-Jagmohan not SapanC, so their creativity
        stands on
        > its own. Incidentally they seemed to have been around since the
        early
        > 60's. One of their assistants for Call Girl was incidentally a
        certain
        > "Dil to Pagal Hai" Uttam Singh, who was also the assistant to
        Naushad
        > around the same time in another forgettable movie.
        >
        > Could SapanC have been 47 or so when he died? Maybe. That would put
        him at
        > around 21 or so during Paraya Dhan. Possible. That makes him 10
        years
        > younger than RDB. Vinay could be right about him being dumped on the
        > Burman household and his growing up there. Could he then have done
        the
        > antara for Bhoot Bungla and Haqeeqat? He would be 12 and 14
        respectively
        > when those two movies came out? Possible? Yes. Probable? No. So how
        does
        > that reconcile with what RD told Ankush? The only answer that I can
        think
        > of is..SapanC could not have been just 47 when he died. Assume he
        was
        > older..say by 8 years or so. That would make him as being born
        around
        > 1941 or so. Then he would be 21 for Bhoot Bungla and 23 for
        Haqeeqat.
        > Ofcourse this is a very simple explanation and fudging numbers like
        his
        > age, hardly helps to solve the dilemna so please don't treat this
        as the
        > final word ok. This is just one possibility.
        >
        > That leaves open the following questions :
        >
        > What song was it that RDB referred to on that Jaimala program and
        who
        > was the MD whose song he heard at that football game? --No solid
        proof,
        > all based on what we have read or heard.
        >
        >
        > OR
        >
        > Who was the person who composed those mini-tunes for Bhoot Bungla
        and
        > Haqeeqat?--Here is where we have first hand info. Ankush says he
        pointed
        > to SapanC. Which means SapanC was old enough to compose for those
        movies.
        >
        > OR
        >
        > At what age did SapanC die?--Should be easy to ascertain from
        friends,
        > newspaper articles.
        >
        >
        >
        > Ketan
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 pancham@p... wrote:
        >
        > > Asif:
        > >
        > > True - Raj Tilak made 36 Ghante - and it is very much possible
        that
        > > Raj Tilak introduced Sapan C to BR Chopra - thus Zameer. And
        Sapan C
        > > may've joined Pancham in between - hence the Pancham influence in
        > > Zameer than in 36 Ghante.
        > >
        > > But this is all khayali-pulao. I'll make it a point to meet Ravi
        > > Chopra on my next visit - more insight. It's always interesting to
        > > know how these decisions were made.
        > >
        > > BTW Raj Tilak took Pancham for his next venture - Mukti. And Ravi
        > > Chopra took Pancham for all his big ventures - Burning Train,
        Mazdoor,
        > > etc. So maybe after Sapan C got into Pancham's camp - Pancham got
        > > entry into BR Chopra camp - a staunch Ravi banner. Maybe...maybe!
        > >
        > > Shashi
        > >
        > >
        > > As for RD introducing Sapan C (or whomever) to B.R. Chopra for
        > > Zameer, I doubt it. Raj Tilak made 36 Ghante (1974), and he was
        B.R.
        > > Chopra's assistant at that time. It is possible that Raj Tilak
        > > introduced Sapan C (or whoever composed music in 36 Ghante) to
        B.R.
        > > Chopra for Zameer (1975). And, just think, R.D. did his first
        film
        > > with B.R. Chopra only in 1977 - Karm.
        > >
        > > Asif
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > http://www.panchamonline.com
        > > ------------------------------------------------
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send a mail to pancham-
        unsubscribe@egroups.com (leave subject and body blank)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • pancham@pclink.com
        Ketan: Good work compiling facts. As I d said earlier I am not sure on the 47 figure. It could ve been 57. But he was definitely not more than 60. Another
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1, 2000
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          Ketan:

          Good work compiling facts. As I'd said earlier I am not sure on the 47
          figure. It could've been 57. But he was definitely not more than 60.

          Another thing I've heard from the industry-wallas - Pancham treated
          Sapan C as his son. Which obviously in the industry also means like
          family - a good chela - not literally the age.

          Sapan C died in Calcutta - apparently homeless and unsung - natural
          demise (heart attact?). I read this in Times of India - where his obit
          mentioned him as Pancham's assistant.

          He was kicked out of Pancham's troupe by 1993/94. That's when he
          relaunched himself in Calcutta.

          Shashi
        • Ketan
          ... Could you elaborate on this? Ketan
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 1, 2000
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            On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 pancham@... wrote:

            > He was kicked out of Pancham's troupe by 1993/94. That's when he
            > relaunched himself in Calcutta.

            Could you elaborate on this?

            Ketan

            >
            > Shashi
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > http://www.panchamonline.com
            > ------------------------------------------------
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send a mail to pancham-unsubscribe@egroups.com (leave subject and body blank)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • pancham@pclink.com
            Folks: As I had mentioned earlier - I might ve been mistaken on the 47 number - could ve been 57. But I m sure it was not more than 60. Can someone get hold of
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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              Folks:

              As I had mentioned earlier - I might've been mistaken on the 47 number
              - could've been 57. But I'm sure it was not more than 60. Can someone
              get hold of the obit from the Times of India - to clear the confusion.

              Secondly - Sapan C - is the same chap who sings for Pancham under the
              name of Sapan C. He also wrote most of the lyrics in Bangla. Besides
              he has also composed for Zameer and some Bangla movies.

              He is NOT the MD for College Girl, etc. That is Sapan-Jagmohan.
              Another team.

              He has NOT acted in any Hindi movie - as far as my knowledge goes.

              The actors mentioned in earlier mails have no relation to Sapan C.

              And Sapan C. is the chap who died of heart attack in Calcutta. He died
              without a home or any worthwhile recognition from Tollywood.

              I hope most things are clear as mud by now. Frankly speaking IMHO -
              the man is not worth the ink we are spending on this discussion.

              Sure from an (Pancham) academic point of view - he had a long lasting
              association with Pancham till 1993/94 - he sang many numbers - he
              arranged - he also wrote lyrics - he called Asha B bhabhi - he also
              acted as Pancham's PR - especially with Tollygunge producers - Pancham
              HAD a deep bond with this chap till 93 - he was also a member of
              Pancham's inner coterie - period.

              Shashi
            • Sharma, Pushkar (NINDS)
              I do not why we are so obsessed with Sapan C s age. We should be discussing Pancham and his works and more musical things. Chod to Yaron Sapan C ko. Unki atma
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                I do not why we are so obsessed with Sapan C's age. We should be discussing
                Pancham and his works and more musical things.
                Chod to Yaron Sapan C ko. Unki atma ko Shanti miley..

                -----Original Message-----
                From: pancham@... [mailto:pancham@...]
                Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 11:56 AM
                To: pancham@egroups.com
                Subject: [pancham] - Sapan C


                Folks:

                As I had mentioned earlier - I might've been mistaken on the 47 number
                - could've been 57. But I'm sure it was not more than 60. Can someone
                get hold of the obit from the Times of India - to clear the confusion.

                Secondly - Sapan C - is the same chap who sings for Pancham under the
                name of Sapan C. He also wrote most of the lyrics in Bangla. Besides
                he has also composed for Zameer and some Bangla movies.

                He is NOT the MD for College Girl, etc. That is Sapan-Jagmohan.
                Another team.

                He has NOT acted in any Hindi movie - as far as my knowledge goes.

                The actors mentioned in earlier mails have no relation to Sapan C.

                And Sapan C. is the chap who died of heart attack in Calcutta. He died
                without a home or any worthwhile recognition from Tollywood.

                I hope most things are clear as mud by now. Frankly speaking IMHO -
                the man is not worth the ink we are spending on this discussion.

                Sure from an (Pancham) academic point of view - he had a long lasting
                association with Pancham till 1993/94 - he sang many numbers - he
                arranged - he also wrote lyrics - he called Asha B bhabhi - he also
                acted as Pancham's PR - especially with Tollygunge producers - Pancham
                HAD a deep bond with this chap till 93 - he was also a member of
                Pancham's inner coterie - period.

                Shashi






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              • pancham@pclink.com
                Ketan: Maybe offline. Shashi ... Could you elaborate on this? Ketan
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                  Ketan:

                  Maybe offline.

                  Shashi

                  On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 pancham@... wrote:

                  > He was kicked out of Pancham's troupe by 1993/94. That's when he
                  > relaunched himself in Calcutta.

                  Could you elaborate on this?

                  Ketan

                  >
                  > Shashi
                  >
                • Arun Verma
                  Shashi, please do it online right here ! Arun
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                    Shashi,

                    please do it online right here !

                    Arun

                    --- In pancham@egroups.com, pancham@p... wrote:
                    > Ketan:
                    >
                    > Maybe offline.
                    >
                    > Shashi
                    >
                    > On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 pancham@p... wrote:
                    >
                    > > He was kicked out of Pancham's troupe by 1993/94. That's when he
                    > > relaunched himself in Calcutta.
                    >
                    > Could you elaborate on this?
                    >
                    > Ketan
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Shashi
                    > >
                  • Burleigh Mannath
                    I was quite impressed by Arun Paudwal s soundtrack of Meera ka Mohan,particularly the bhajan in it. Too bad he passed away soon after the movie was out.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                      I was quite impressed by Arun Paudwal's soundtrack of Meera ka
                      Mohan,particularly the bhajan in it. Too bad he passed away soon after the
                      movie was out.

                      burleigh


                      On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Ankush Chinchankar wrote:

                      > Pushkar
                      > Yes you are right. Anil Mohile is the same who
                      > conducts all LM concerts. It was Anil + Arun in
                      > marathi film music ewho changed the music style of
                      > Marathi songs from "Lavani" style to music close to
                      > hindi film music. Arun was a talented tune maker and
                      > Anil was a good arranger. Arun Poudwal (incidently he
                      > was my mama) married to an orchestra singer called
                      > "Anuradha Nadkarni" now Anuradha powdwal. She had high
                      > aims in life and wanted to become second Lata (which
                      > she still wants to). She was a perfect track singer in
                      > absence of Lata and Lata used to dub her track for all
                      > Hindi songs of lata. Later Anil and Arun seperated out
                      > due to problems between Lata and Anuradha. Anil
                      > preffered staying with Lata and Arun started seperate
                      > track with Gulshan Kumar. Next part of the story is
                      > known to all of you. But before ending I want to say
                      > that during the period Anil Arun assisted SDB, all the
                      > songs used to be just like RDB. Very talented pair.
                      > Ankush
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- "Sharma, Pushkar (NINDS)" <sharmap@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Ketan,
                      > >
                      > > Good job and checking things out. I also feel that
                      > > SapanC was more than 47
                      > > years of age, I thought he was same age as RD. I
                      > > don't have any proof
                      > > though.
                      > > Is this Anil Mohile the same guy who was the MD/
                      > > arranger for the Lata M big
                      > > concert in Mumbai couple of years ago? Just curious.
                      > >
                      > > Pushkar
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Ketan
                      > > To: pancham@egroups.com
                      > > Sent: 7/31/00 7:38 PM
                      > > Subject: Re: [pancham] - Sapan C
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Allright. I think I have it sort of figured out.
                      > > Partial thanks to
                      > > Sherlock Shashi for pointing out that Sapan was 47
                      > > when he died which
                      > > made
                      > > my mind think along those lines and for his
                      > > suggestion that the Sapan
                      > > might be a completely different Sapan.
                      > >
                      > > The info given below is after I researched and
                      > > crosschecked Nerurkar's
                      > > books on Lata/Asha/RDB, another Nerurkar like dude's
                      > > book on Rafi and
                      > > the
                      > > Geet Kosh for the 1971-1980 period. The 60's book
                      > > does not list the MD's
                      > > assistants but most of the 70's movies do.
                      > >
                      > > So here it is :
                      > >
                      > > --Zameer was composed by ONLY SapanC. No Jagmohan
                      > > here. My fault in that
                      > > too.
                      > >
                      > > --Sapan/Jagmohan are two completely different
                      > > people. Sapan here is
                      > > Sapan
                      > > Sengupta and Jagmohan is Jagmohan Bakshi. This is
                      > > not the same as
                      > > 'Sursagar' Jagmohan(before we get confused over this
                      > > now) who sang
                      > > "Mujhe
                      > > na sapno se behlaaon, who was a contemporary of KC
                      > > Dey, Saigal, Pankaj
                      > > Mullick in the 30's and 40's. This Jagmohan is the
                      > > guy who sang in SDB's
                      > > Taxi Driver the song "Dekho Maane Nahin" back in
                      > > 1954.
                      > >
                      > > --The statement that RDB heard "Tum bhi chalo" over
                      > > the radio, football
                      > > match, blah blah is very unlikely. In 1971 a SapanC
                      > > was his assistant
                      > > for
                      > > Paraya Dhan, in 1973 for Aa Gale Lag Ja and for
                      > > Anamika. So assuming
                      > > that
                      > > his assistant SapanC is the same as the MD of
                      > > Zameer(please not another
                      > > SapanC), the radio incident is either false or it
                      > > must be about a
                      > > completely different movie/song/incident.
                      > >
                      > > --Basu/Manohari/Maruti seemed to be his assistants
                      > > for the most part but
                      > > as Shashi said, they seemed to be more interested in
                      > > keeping the home
                      > > fires burning. Manohari(if it is the same one) has
                      > > assisted Hemant Kumar
                      > > in the 70's. Infact Sharmilee had 5 assistant
                      > > MD's--Basu, Manohari,
                      > > Maruti, Anil and Arun. The Anil here is Anil Mohile
                      > > and Arun is Arun
                      > > Paudwal. Interestingly for Tere Mere Sapne the asst
                      > > is Meera Dev but
                      > > there
                      > > is a separate mention for "orchestra by
                      > > Basu/Manohari".
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > My conclusions --all IMHO :
                      > >
                      > > It is possible therefore that Zameer was ghost
                      > > composed by RDB or maybe
                      > > a
                      > > tune or two was handed to SapanC by RDB. However
                      > > Call Girl, Abhi to Jee
                      > > Lain, etc are by Sapan-Jagmohan not SapanC, so their
                      > > creativity stands
                      > > on
                      > > its own. Incidentally they seemed to have been
                      > > around since the early
                      > > 60's. One of their assistants for Call Girl was
                      > > incidentally a certain
                      > > "Dil to Pagal Hai" Uttam Singh, who was also the
                      > > assistant to Naushad
                      > > around the same time in another forgettable movie.
                      > >
                      > > Could SapanC have been 47 or so when he died? Maybe.
                      > > That would put him
                      > > at
                      > > around 21 or so during Paraya Dhan. Possible. That
                      > > makes him 10 years
                      > > younger than RDB. Vinay could be right about him
                      > > being dumped on the
                      > > Burman household and his growing up there. Could he
                      > > then have done the
                      > > antara for Bhoot Bungla and Haqeeqat? He would be 12
                      > > and 14 respectively
                      > > when those two movies came out? Possible? Yes.
                      > > Probable? No. So how does
                      > > that reconcile with what RD told Ankush? The only
                      > > answer that I can
                      > > think
                      > > of is..SapanC could not have been just 47 when he
                      > > died. Assume he was
                      > > older..say by 8 years or so. That would make him as
                      > > being born around
                      > > 1941 or so. Then he would be 21 for Bhoot Bungla and
                      > > 23 for Haqeeqat.
                      > > Ofcourse this is a very simple explanation and
                      > > fudging numbers like his
                      > > age, hardly helps to solve the dilemna so please
                      > > don't treat this as the
                      > > final word ok. This is just one possibility.
                      > >
                      > > That leaves open the following questions :
                      > >
                      > > What song was it that RDB referred to on that
                      > > Jaimala program and who
                      > > was the MD whose song he heard at that football
                      > > game? --No solid proof,
                      > > all based on what we have read or heard.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > OR
                      > >
                      > > Who was the person who composed those mini-tunes for
                      > > Bhoot Bungla and
                      > > Haqeeqat?--Here is where we have first hand info.
                      > > Ankush says he pointed
                      > > to SapanC. Which means SapanC was old enough to
                      > > compose for those
                      > > movies.
                      > >
                      > > OR
                      > >
                      > > At what age did SapanC die?--Should be easy to
                      > > ascertain from friends,
                      > > newspaper articles.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Ketan
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 pancham@... wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Asif:
                      > > >
                      > > > True - Raj Tilak made 36 Ghante - and it is very
                      > > much possible that
                      > > > Raj Tilak introduced Sapan C to BR Chopra - thus
                      > > Zameer. And Sapan C
                      > > > may've joined Pancham in between - hence the
                      > > Pancham influence in
                      > > > Zameer than in 36 Ghante.
                      > > >
                      > > > But this is all khayali-pulao. I'll make it a
                      > > point to meet Ravi
                      > > > Chopra on my next visit - more insight. It's
                      > > always interesting to
                      > > > know how these decisions were made.
                      > > >
                      > > > BTW Raj Tilak took Pancham for his next venture -
                      > > Mukti. And Ravi
                      > > > Chopra took Pancham for all his big ventures -
                      > > Burning Train, Mazdoor,
                      > > > etc. So maybe after Sapan C got into Pancham's
                      > > camp - Pancham got
                      > > > entry into BR Chopra camp - a staunch Ravi banner.
                      > > Maybe...maybe!
                      > > >
                      > > > Shashi
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > As for RD introducing Sapan C (or whomever) to
                      > > B.R. Chopra for
                      > >
                      > === message truncated ===
                      >
                      >
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                    • Burleigh Mannath
                      ... I haven t heard the songs of Sapan C. But it would stand to reason why they would sound very RDish if they were indeed assisted by the trio, who
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                        On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Ketan wrote:

                        >
                        > Lastly, SapanC's assistants for Naya Nasha, Zameer etc were Basu, Manohari
                        > and Maruti.


                        I haven't heard the songs of Sapan C. But it would stand to reason why
                        they would sound very RDish if they were indeed assisted by the trio, who
                        incidently, I thought. were the best of all the assistants RD had. Cos I
                        found a marked difference in quality of HIS music when he used others. A
                        notch below my expectations. That was also about the time I dropped out of
                        the movie watching craze. Several reasons for that, besides the change of
                        assistants....crappy movies compounded by crappier VHS video copies in
                        which you barely could tell who the damn actors were. Bloody frustrating.
                        Of course, in the process I deprived myself of all the the gems RD
                        produced in the eighties.

                        burleigh

                        PS. I haven't noticed anyone mention another of RD's assistant, one Robin
                        Chatterjee or Banerjee or was it Battacharya (these bong last names do get
                        confusing to me at times!). His name was prominently featured as an
                        assistant in one of the movies I watched in the eighties (Dacoit-Sunny
                        Doel,Rama-O-Rama or maybe Parinda perhaps?)
                      • Ajit Iyer
                        Why offline boss? Anything to do with Pancham should be discussed in this group. Why be discreet about this? ...
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                          Why offline boss? Anything to do with Pancham should
                          be discussed in this group. Why be discreet about
                          this?

                          --- pancham@... wrote:
                          > Ketan:
                          >
                          > Maybe offline.
                          >
                          > Shashi
                          >
                          > On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 pancham@... wrote:
                          >
                          > > He was kicked out of Pancham's troupe by 1993/94.
                          > That's when he
                          > > relaunched himself in Calcutta.
                          >
                          > Could you elaborate on this?
                          >
                          > Ketan
                          >
                          > >
                          > > Shashi
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • Nilangshu Haldar
                          ... From: Burleigh Mannath To: Sent: 04 August 2000 01:09 Subject: RE: [pancham] - Sapan C ... Burleigh ji: Rabin
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 3, 2000
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Burleigh Mannath <mannathb@...>
                            To: <pancham@egroups.com>
                            Sent: 04 August 2000 01:09
                            Subject: RE: [pancham] - Sapan C


                            > PS. I haven't noticed anyone mention another of RD's assistant, one Robin
                            > Chatterjee or Banerjee or was it Battacharya (these bong last names do get
                            > confusing to me at times!). His name was prominently featured as an
                            > assistant in one of the movies I watched in the eighties (Dacoit-Sunny
                            > Doel,Rama-O-Rama or maybe Parinda perhaps?)

                            Burleigh ji:

                            Rabin Chatterjee was a respected composer in Bengal, if not successful. I
                            haven't heard any of his independent works. There is a school of thought
                            which credits the composition of all Bhappi L's decent numbers (starting
                            from Chalte Chalte) to him. I understand he was Bhappi's assistant for the
                            early part of Bhappi's career. I have heard people say that it was obvious
                            Bhappi L would be successful, look who's doing the work for him.....etc.


                            But I had no idea that later on RC assisted RDB.

                            Nilangshu
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