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Re: [pakhtu] Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan

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  • Gahez Shpol
    Bacha khan didn t suport the idea of Pakistan, because he knew Pshtuns will be paying the cost of this struggle between Hindus and Punjabees for centuries, as
    Message 1 of 19 , May 31, 2002
      Bacha khan didn't suport the idea of Pakistan, because he knew Pshtuns will be paying the cost of this struggle between Hindus and Punjabees for centuries, as its obvious today.
      He never supported Russian presence in Afghanistan, however he opposed the so called Mujahideen and the so called jihad against their own government. The war was never for Islam or Afghanistan, but a war beween world capitalism against Russia, where a bunch of opportunist mullahs could pocket millions of dollars and they could see a chance to become the head of Afghanistan. Afghans on both sides were being sacrificed and each and every one of the Mujahideen leader was a killer and was struggling to become the next Amirulmomineen of Afghanistan, no matter what it costed our nation. The presence of Russia was just a pretext. The Pakistani and Mujahid leaders' jihad started when Dawood was in power, long before Russia's arrival, and it didn't end even when the Russians left. Till most of kabul was burnt and tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed and the country tuned into a trrorist hub. It was quite obvious even then that this was going to happen if the mujahideen enter Kabul. That was the reason that many sane people who cared about Afghan nation and Afghanistan, opposed this war. But the power hungry commanders with the help of their gangs and malitias didn't listen to any of such calls. They continued killing and pushed to be in power even if it was just for three months in Darulaman, like Mujadadi, be a Prime Minister in absentia like Gulbuddin, a president with only two Olaswalai in control like Rabbani, an Amirulmomineen sitting in Kandahar and not being able to show his ugly face to the press for five years in power. The price Afghans and Afghanistan paid in terms of millions of lives, distroyed cities, plundered historical treasure, millions out on the run around the world, and completely shattered nation and country was worth it??
      staso
      Gahez
    • AC
      I dont think he supported the soviet backed regime, but, he was aware (as some of us were) of the much bigger (by several order of magnitude) disaster which
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
        I dont think he supported the soviet backed regime, but, he was aware (as
        some of us were) of the
        much bigger (by several order of magnitude) disaster which followed the
        collapse of that regime. In this way, he was admirable and visionary.
        A.C.
      • k qari
        DEAREST AND RESPECTED BROTHER ! WE SHOLD NOT BE LIKE A SODA WATER BOTLE AND CALL EACH AND ANYONE LIKE YOU SAID
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
          DEAREST AND RESPECTED BROTHER !
          WE SHOLD NOT BE LIKE A SODA WATER BOTLE AND CALL EACH
          AND ANYONE LIKE YOU SAID <QUR,AN. SAYING IN CHAPTER
          07>
          <WALA TA SUBBULLAZEENA YADUNA MINDUNILLAHI
          PAYASUBULLAHA ADWAN BIGHIR ILAM> WE SHOULD NOT MAKE
          OUR SELEVES <QAZI OR MUFTI> THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE
          COMMING TO THIS GROUP WHO CARE FOR THOSE WHO YOU NAMED
          IT < AND ALL SO I DID NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR IDEAS IF
          YOU ARE SECULAR??? OR RELIGUS? THAN WER MUSLIMS WILL
          UNDERSTAND IF WE COULD TALK OR DISCUS OR JUST LISTEN
          AND DELITE YOUR COMMONTS................ PLEASE
          FORGIVE ME IF I DID SOME IPULITE WORDS BUT WE AFGHANS
          REALY HERT AND CANT EXEPT MORE TO ANYONE WHO CALL OUR
          OWN BLOOD BY MANY NAMES.
          THANK YOU.






          --- Gahez Shpol <gahez_1@...> wrote:
          > Bacha khan didn't suport the idea of Pakistan,
          > because he knew Pshtuns will be paying the cost of
          > this struggle between Hindus and Punjabees for
          > centuries, as its obvious today.
          > He never supported Russian presence in Afghanistan,
          > however he opposed the so called Mujahideen and the
          > so called jihad against their own government. The
          > war was never for Islam or Afghanistan, but a war
          > beween world capitalism against Russia, where a
          > bunch of opportunist mullahs could pocket millions
          > of dollars and they could see a chance to become the
          > head of Afghanistan. Afghans on both sides were
          > being sacrificed and each and every one of the
          > Mujahideen leader was a killer and was struggling to
          > become the next Amirulmomineen of Afghanistan, no
          > matter what it costed our nation. The presence of
          > Russia was just a pretext. The Pakistani and Mujahid
          > leaders' jihad started when Dawood was in power,
          > long before Russia's arrival, and it didn't end even
          > when the Russians left. Till most of kabul was burnt
          > and tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed
          > and the country tuned into a trrorist hub. It was
          > quite obvious even then that this was going to
          > happen if the mujahideen enter Kabul. That was the
          > reason that many sane people who cared about Afghan
          > nation and Afghanistan, opposed this war. But the
          > power hungry commanders with the help of their gangs
          > and malitias didn't listen to any of such calls.
          > They continued killing and pushed to be in power
          > even if it was just for three months in Darulaman,
          > like Mujadadi, be a Prime Minister in absentia like
          > Gulbuddin, a president with only two Olaswalai in
          > control like Rabbani, an Amirulmomineen sitting in
          > Kandahar and not being able to show his ugly face to
          > the press for five years in power. The price Afghans
          > and Afghanistan paid in terms of millions of lives,
          > distroyed cities, plundered historical treasure,
          > millions out on the run around the world, and
          > completely shattered nation and country was worth
          > it??
          > staso
          > Gahez
          >
          >


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        • ghulam azam
          I think Ghafar Khan was much in line of Gandhi that followed non-voilence philopsiphy, which was competable with the Hindu circumstances of that time. While
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
            I think Ghafar Khan was much in line of Gandhi that followed non-voilence
            philopsiphy, which was competable with the Hindu circumstances of that time.
            While Ghafar Khan belonged to Pakhtun which are Muslims and fiercely
            independent nation. His failure was, in spite of one century long courageous
            struggle, not creating a policy of his own competable to his own people's
            culture, history and desires but following what was good for others in his
            own community without proper adjustments. Regards. Ghulam


            >From: "AC" <chpoun@...>
            >Reply-To: pakhtu@yahoogroups.com
            >To: <pakhtu@yahoogroups.com>
            >Subject: RE: [pakhtu] Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan/soviet
            >invasion
            >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:30:06 +0200
            >
            >I dont think he supported the soviet backed regime, but, he was aware (as
            >some of us were) of the
            >much bigger (by several order of magnitude) disaster which followed the
            >collapse of that regime. In this way, he was admirable and visionary.
            >A.C.
          • Mohammad Khan
            Grano malgaro, Tolo ta salamoona. Education is the key to get the pukhtun qaum of the out of the economic abyss. This can be done onely if we pool our
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
              Grano malgaro,

              Tolo ta salamoona. Education is the key to get the
              pukhtun qaum of the out of the economic abyss. This
              can be done onely if we pool our resources, no matter
              how small, and invest in the education of our children
              in pukhtunkhwa. It is a great day that a good
              beginning has been made in that direction. Today I
              received a substantial sum of $300 as donation to the
              education fund of our children. Some of the money had
              been pledged before but most of it is a new donation.
              I like to thank Khaghaley Mr Kamran Aziz Yousafzay for
              his generous contribution. I wish others will rise to
              the occasion and help out whatever little they can.
              This amout brings the bank balance in the WPF account
              to $1,530.86. Just last month I sent $1,615.00 to
              Peshawar jerga to be distributed by them.

              Staso Khadem.

              M Kamal Khan
              President/Treasurer WPF
            • shahrahm
              ... Badshah Khan matched his mountains in greatness by following the principles of his religion and creed. He did not have to follow Gandhi, Mandela and Martin
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
                ---
                Badshah Khan matched his mountains in greatness by following the
                principles of his religion and creed.
                He did not have to follow Gandhi, Mandela and Martin Luther King,
                his religion taught him peace and peaceful coexistence.

                " That man is a Muslim who never hurt anybody by word or deed and
                works for the benefit and happiness of God's creatures. Belief in
                God is to love one fellow men." Prophet Muhammad.

                Mahatma Gandhi and Badshah Khan both saw the divide and rule
                philosophy of the foreign interest and sensed partition and the
                Afghan wars to serve the interest of the western alliance to contain
                and entrap the USSR.

                The foreign interest got keener after the defeat of the British in
                the two Afghan wars. They started working for the entrapment of the
                Communist in Afghanistan and many elders including Badshahkhan saw
                Afghanistan as the battleground for the warring Americans and not
                very smart Russians.
                Ignoring Kamal Babrak in retrospect would have been better than the
                bloody war won over with the blood of the Afghans, the ISI, the Arab
                fugitives and the religious right who wanted to teach the godless a
                lesson.

                The American foreign agents have one more feather in their cap for
                defeating the Russians, in an important front without shedding
                American blood.

                The losers are many, the land uninhabitable because of the mines.
                The psyche of the masses is pro-feudal and their grasp of solution
                of any problem is by gun only. Thanks to the wars and the warriors
                for their teaching. Democracy appears far far away for now.
                Few benefited and there are few more to join the same men, they
                hated and fought so bitterly.

                Now the war is over, the warriors have prevailed for the time being
                and we all hope that the motives of the northern and western
                alliance will be peaceful.

                Bach Khan longed for peaceful solutions that were not very popular
                amongst his countrymen. He did not hesitate to beg for peace by
                addressing the peace loving Americans who love democracy at home and
                whose' government support non-democratic violent regimes abroad.

                "To the people of the United States whose vigor, courage and
                idealism en-joined to nonviolence can reshape the course of
                history."
                He was clear when he spoke of peace, love and co-existence amongst
                the nations of the world.

                Bacha Khan continued his work for the betterment of his people and
                peace even after the creation of Pakistan.
                The founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah's speeches for peace were
                censored
                and so were those of Bacha Khan. He spent most of his life in jail
                his organization Surkhposh and Khudai-khidmatgar banned. The wars
                mongering Pakistanis' continued their message of war and hate to
                match those of the Hindu extremist.

                Civil war of partition, the wars over Kashmir and the future atomic
                war between the two countries make me wonder if this price for
                independence was worth any good for the common man.
                The GNP of both countries is wasted on war material and efforts. The
                suffering and need of the people is willfully ignored as the un-
                educated masses are mesmerized by the defense of the country via the
                atom gini.

                " I can not cease thinking of Badshah Khan even when I have
                ceased
                to desire to live up to 125 years. I am seeing more and more of his
                deeply spiritual nature daily. He has patience, faith and non-
                violence joined in true humanity. Countless Pathans have enshrined
                him in their hearts as their uncrowned king. For such a person there
                can be no defeat. I am sure he will not shrink from any sacrifice or
                suffering, but will die serving the pathans with his last breath. He
                lives only for that. He is a man of penance, also of illumination,
                with love for all and hatred toward none." Mahatma Gandhi.

                Pa Makha De Kha Wror rahmat.





                In pakhtu@y..., mnshahalemi@a... wrote:
                > Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan, A
                > Man to Match His Mountains (2nd edition)
                > by Eknath Easwaran
                > 240 pp. $24.00 (hardcover)
                > Nilgiri Press, 2000
                >
                >
                >
                > As United States CIA officers continue operations against
                > Afghan warlords in advance of this June's Loya Jirga
                > legislative council, demagogues from Afghanistan to the United
                > States still characterize the war for public observers as a
                > struggle against either 'American imperialism' or
                > 'international terrorism.' Both of these tacks, while they
                > tend to rouse audiences, necessarily pit one side against
                > another. In this light, a 1999 book about the life of a
                > lesser-known peacemaker, which serves as a warning and hopeful
                > challenge to seekers of sovereignty and to anti-terrorists,
                > deserves a second look.
                >
                >
                > Readers accustomed to tracking the affairs of Pashtun leaders
                > in the daily paper can get to know a remarkable Pashtun
                > peacemaker in Easwaran Eknath's Nonviolent Soldier of Islam.
                > The book tells the story of tribal leader Abdul Ghaffar Khan,
                > who was born in 1890 outside Peshawar and went on to work
                > alongside Mahatma Gandhi. His journey, against the daily
                > skirmishes and negotiations in Afghanistan, provide hope for a
                > devastated country attempting to emerge from more than two
                > decades of warfare.
                >
                >
                > The son of a village chief, Khan witnessed British forces'
                > repression of an uprising in his home Northwest Frontier
                > province in 1897. Alongside this colonial oppression,
                > devastating cycles of violence precipitated by blood feuds
                > scarred his Pashtun society and made a profound impression on
                > the young Khan. Although a physically strong man with a
                > brilliant mind, he rejected a coveted commission in an elite
                > British Indian army unit and a place to study in England.
                > Instead, he determined to oppose the British oppression of his
                > fellow Afghans. But instead of using weapons of warfare, Khan
                > fought this struggle by providing education.
                >
                >
                > He traveled throughout rural tribal areas preaching hard work,
                > self-sacrifice and forgiveness, and led efforts to establish
                > schools for peasant children. His work earned him the respect
                > of fellow citizens, who gave him the honorary title 'Badshah
                > Khan' - or Khan of Khans. The British saw him as a threat,
                > however. They censored his schools and imprisoned Khan; in the
                > end, he was to spend one third of his long life in prison.
                >
                >
                > Over the course of his non-violent campaign, Khan forged a
                > close relationship with Mahatma Ghandi, even becoming known
                > among locals as 'the Frontier Ghandi.' Khan spread Ghandi's
                > civil disobedience movement to the Afghan frontier region,
                > urging his people to return British medals, withdraw from
                > British universities, and stop practicing in British courts.
                >
                >
                > Perhaps most remarkably to readers accustomed to Taliban-style
                > religious rhetoric, Badshah Khan organized 100,000 uniformed
                > men as the Khudai Khidmatgars, or 'Servants of God' - the
                > world's first professional non-violent army. With regimental
                > discipline, these men foreswore violence and dedicated
                > themselves to education, poverty relief and raising the
                > consciousness of the peasants. The Khudai Khidmagtars formed
                > the key Muslim component of the popular non-violent movement
                > that precipitated the British withdrawal from India.
                >
                >
                > But Khan's joy was short-lived, for reasons that will also
                > resonate with current readers. A strong advocate of Indian
                > unity, he was appalled at the fighting following independence
                > in 1947 that led to the partition of the sub-continent into
                > Muslim and Hindu states. Nevertheless, he maintained close
                > ties with his Hindu friends, earning the ire of the Pakistani
                > authorities who imprisoned him as 'pro-Indian.' He insisted to
                > the end that Muslims and Hindus were better off together, and
                > deplored tensions between the two states.
                >
                >
                > Abdul Ghaffar Khan died on January 20 1988, at the age of 98.
                > His funeral led to the first visit of an Indian Prime Minister
                > to Pakistan in three decades. It also occasioned a temporary
                > cease-fire observed by Soviet and mujaheddin forces fighting
                > in Afghanistan, to allow his burial near Jalalabad.
                >
                >
                > Today, with missiles landing in Jalalabad, this accessible and
                > inspiring account of one of history's greatest peacemakers
                > provides valuable insights to readers concerned with the
                > plight of contemporary Afghanistan. In particular, the book
                > offers four lessons. First, it reminds us that no nation is a
                > slave to its past. The Pashtuns are often caricatured in
                > Western media as a 'warlike people.' However, Badshah Khan
                > shows us that even the most deeply ingrained cycles of
                > violence can be broken once violence itself is disavowed.
                > Second, it challenges the image many have, post-September 11,
                > of Islam as a religion of violence. Badshah Khan was a devout
                > Muslim, but his faith did not lead him to endorse militarism -
                > even in the face of outrages committed against his own people.
                > Rather, he believed that the Prophet Mohammad's life set an
                > example of non-violence. He worked closely with other faith
                > communities, strongly influenced by Ghandi's preaching of
                > Jesus' injunction to 'love your enemy.'
                >
                >
                > The other two lessons of the book bear on understanding of
                > American, rather than Central Asian, politics. By documenting
                > the terror that British colonialism wrought in the cause of
                > "progress," Eknath reminds us that wars fought in the name of
                > abstractions like "civilization" can be the cruelest of all.
                > Like the British a century earlier, in the past two decades
                > Soviet, Taliban and American forces have wrought great
                > suffering on the people of Afghanistan. Yet all fighters have
                > been convinced they were fighting for noble causes. Finally,
                > Badshah Khan's story teaches that hope can arise from
                > remarkable places. It shows that courageous individuals
                > motivated by love and determination can transform history. In
                > an uncertain moment in the war on terrorism and the
                > development of nations, Eknath's book deserves close reading
                > by a wide audience.
              • Gahez Shpol
                Muhtaram Qari saeb, taa de khudae khappa na kee. Zmaa matlab hiss kala de chaa khwabadee khawal na woo. daa khu hassi zmaa yao syaasi nazar woo. delta harsok
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
                  Muhtaram Qari saeb, taa de khudae khappa na kee. Zmaa matlab hiss kala de chaa khwabadee khawal na woo. daa khu hassi zmaa yao syaasi nazar woo. delta harsok khpal khpal nazar wrandekawee. ka cheree staa pu chaa baande khwabadegee, no za dera dera bakhshana ghwarum. Ao ta khoo hassi hum zmaa mamakhel ye, walee che zmaa anna hum wardaka wa, khudae de wabakhshee.
                  staaso wror
                  Gahez
                  k qari <qari_k_wardak@...> wrote:

                  DEAREST AND RESPECTED BROTHER !
                  WE SHOLD NOT BE LIKE A SODA WATER BOTLE AND CALL EACH
                  AND ANYONE LIKE YOU SAID <QUR,AN. SAYING IN CHAPTER
                  07>
                  <WALA TA SUBBULLAZEENA YADUNA MINDUNILLAHI
                  PAYASUBULLAHA ADWAN BIGHIR ILAM> WE SHOULD NOT MAKE
                  OUR SELEVES <QAZI OR MUFTI> THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE
                  COMMING TO THIS GROUP WHO CARE FOR THOSE WHO YOU NAMED
                  IT < AND ALL SO I DID NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR IDEAS IF
                  YOU ARE SECULAR??? OR RELIGUS? THAN WER MUSLIMS WILL
                  UNDERSTAND IF WE COULD TALK OR DISCUS OR JUST LISTEN
                  AND DELITE YOUR COMMONTS................ PLEASE
                  FORGIVE ME IF I DID SOME IPULITE WORDS BUT WE AFGHANS
                  REALY HERT AND CANT EXEPT MORE TO ANYONE WHO CALL OUR
                  OWN BLOOD BY MANY NAMES.
                  THANK YOU.






                  --- Gahez Shpol <gahez_1@...> wrote:
                  > Bacha khan didn't suport the idea of Pakistan,
                  > because he knew Pshtuns will be paying the cost of
                  > this struggle between Hindus and Punjabees for
                  > centuries, as its obvious today.
                  > He never supported Russian presence in Afghanistan,
                  > however he opposed the so called Mujahideen and the
                  > so called jihad against their own government. The
                  > war was never for Islam or Afghanistan, but a war
                  > beween world capitalism against Russia, where a
                  > bunch of opportunist mullahs could pocket millions
                  > of dollars and they could see a chance to become the
                  > head of Afghanistan. Afghans on both sides were
                  > being sacrificed and each and every one of the
                  > Mujahideen leader was a killer and was struggling to
                  > become the next Amirulmomineen of Afghanistan, no
                  > matter what it costed our nation. The presence of
                  > Russia was just a pretext. The Pakistani and Mujahid
                  > leaders' jihad started when Dawood was in power,
                  > long before Russia's arrival, and it didn't end even
                  > when the Russians left. Till most of kabul was burnt
                  > and tens of thousands of innocent civilians killed
                  > and the country tuned into a trrorist hub. It was
                  > quite obvious even then that this was going to
                  > happen if the mujahideen enter Kabul. That was the
                  > reason that many sane people who cared about Afghan
                  > nation and Afghanistan, opposed this war. But the
                  > power hungry commanders with the help of their gangs
                  > and malitias didn't listen to any of such calls.
                  > They continued killing and pushed to be in power
                  > even if it was just for three months in Darulaman,
                  > like Mujadadi, be a Prime Minister in absentia like
                  > Gulbuddin, a president with only two Olaswalai in
                  > control like Rabbani, an Amirulmomineen sitting in
                  > Kandahar and not being able to show his ugly face to
                  > the press for five years in power. The price Afghans
                  > and Afghanistan paid in terms of millions of lives,
                  > distroyed cities, plundered historical treasure,
                  > millions out on the run around the world, and
                  > completely shattered nation and country was worth
                  > it??
                  > staso
                  > Gahez
                  >
                  >


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Gahez Shpol
                  Pashtuns have the honour of being feircly freedom-loving, proud of their dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough, but those who direct these
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
                    Pashtuns have the honour of being feircly freedom-loving, proud of their dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough, but those who direct these qulities of our people against our own nation and our own country for political and economic gains, are the ones non of us could be proud of and they would be condenmed traitors and enimies of our nation by our future generations.

                    pu dranawee
                    Gaehz

                    ghulam azam <farouqazam@...> wrote: I think Ghafar Khan was much in line of Gandhi that followed non-voilence
                    philopsiphy, which was competable with the Hindu circumstances of that time.
                    While Ghafar Khan belonged to Pakhtun which are Muslims and fiercely
                    independent nation. His failure was, in spite of one century long courageous
                    struggle, not creating a policy of his own competable to his own people's
                    culture, history and desires but following what was good for others in his
                    own community without proper adjustments. Regards. Ghulam


                    >From: "AC" <chpoun@...>
                    >Reply-To: pakhtu@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <pakhtu@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: RE: [pakhtu] Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan/soviet
                    >invasion
                    >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:30:06 +0200
                    >
                    >I dont think he supported the soviet backed regime, but, he was aware (as
                    >some of us were) of the
                    >much bigger (by several order of magnitude) disaster which followed the
                    >collapse of that regime. In this way, he was admirable and visionary.
                    >A.C.


                    Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

                    Messages distributed through this forum are the senders individual point of view, and are NOT the agenda or the ideology of World Pukhtoon Foundation.
                    === http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pakhtu ===

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    ---------------------------------
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • k qari
                    Grana Dusta warora ; Za deeeeeera ziata bakhana ghwaaram za lakachi ghalat shawy wam aw ma aaf mi kara insan khu deeeeeer aajiz dy bia ham maafi ghawaram.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 1, 2002
                      Grana Dusta warora ;
                      Za deeeeeera ziata bakhana ghwaaram za lakachi ghalat
                      shawy wam aw ma aaf mi kara insan khu deeeeeer aajiz
                      dy bia ham maafi ghawaram.
                      stasu khadem.
                      Ahqer Q..k..w.
                    • Tariq
                      Gahez Shpol wrote: Pashtuns have the honour of being feircly freedom-loving, proud of their dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 2, 2002
                        Gahez Shpol <gahez_1@...> wrote:

                        Pashtuns have the honour of being feircly freedom-loving, proud of their
                        dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough, but those who direct
                        these qulities of our people against our own nation and our own country for
                        political and economic gains, are the ones non of us could be proud of and
                        they would be condenmed traitors and enimies of our nation by our future
                        generations.

                        pu dranawee
                        Gaehz

                        Gahez Shpol wrora!
                        As-salamo alaikum.

                        Agreed, Pashtuns are one of the rare communities that gather among
                        them many glaring qualities but these are to no avail when we know that
                        Pashtuns are primarily uneducated and seldom throw up leaders that
                        are genuine and sincere.

                        Without the said two pre-requistes I am afraid we shall achieve little.

                        So listen to what Dr Kamal Khan shouts himself hoarse.

                        Staso, Tariq
                      • ghulam azam
                        Dear, Gahez Shpol, I am exactly saying what you say that Pshtuns are feircly freedom-loving, proud of their dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 3, 2002
                          Dear, Gahez Shpol,
                          I am exactly saying what you say that Pshtuns are feircly freedom-loving,
                          proud of their dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough. I also
                          agree that we must not allow others to direct these qulities of our people
                          against our own nation and our own country for political and economic gains.
                          But, my argument is that Ghafar Khan could not take these qualities into
                          consideration in his struggle. The success of Gandhi was in this very
                          reason. Unfortunately, the successors of Ghafar Khan continue the same
                          unrealistic policies in the part of Pashtuns. As we practice in Maths that Y
                          is subject to X, the same they are subject to the Indian policies towards
                          Afghanistan. Wali Khan and Mahmud Khan Achakzai support any government in
                          Kabul that enjoys the support of India and hate any government in Kabul that
                          Delhi does not like it. Remember the famous slagon of National Awami Party
                          in 1980s that was 'Babrak-Wali Bahi Bahi. And remember the famous speech of
                          Mahmud Khan Achakzai in Mizan Chawk of Quetta in 1983 who told to Afghan
                          refugees (most of them Pashtuns) at the front of thousands of his followers
                          as 'Bagoro Nikal do'. Many Pashtuns liked Ghafar Khan and Samad Khan in
                          Afghanistan prior to the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. But due to their
                          support of Russians, they lost the sympathy of many Afghans. In the past 24
                          years, Wali Khan and Mahmud Khan Achakzai supported every anti-Pashtun
                          government in Kabul because India wanted. We must understand, India prepares
                          its policy on the basis of its enmity towards Pakistan; it must not be the
                          case with Wali Khan and Mahmud Khan. If they still do not accept the
                          existence of Pakistan as their fathers did, then, they must, first, not join
                          the government in Islamabad and provinces as they always did in the past.
                          Second, they must again understand the psychology and the wish of their
                          people and not build their policies on the basis of Indian interests in the
                          region that traditionally is against Pashtuns. Please read writings of many
                          prominent Indian politicians, including the then prime minister, Jawahar Lal
                          Nehru's. Then, you will find, how much the Indian politicians hate the
                          Pashtuns. I praise Bach Khan and Samad Khan for their determination, but, I
                          think all of us have the right to re-examine their struggle and the
                          follow-up of this struggle by their sons, since these policies affect the
                          life of Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan. I think it is time for all of
                          us to come home and review our policies realistically and with cool blood on
                          the basis of Pashtuns interests in both countries especially at the current
                          situation in the region. Regards.

                          >From: Gahez Shpol <gahez_1@...>
                          >Reply-To: pakhtu@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: pakhtu@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: RE: [pakhtu] Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan/soviet
                          >invasion
                          >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:02:29 -0700 (PDT)
                          >
                          >
                          >Pashtuns have the honour of being feircly freedom-loving, proud of their
                          >dignity and identity, brave, hardworking and tough, but those who direct
                          >these qulities of our people against our own nation and our own country for
                          >political and economic gains, are the ones non of us could be proud of and
                          >they would be condenmed traitors and enimies of our nation by our future
                          >generations.
                          >
                          >pu dranawee
                          >Gaehz
                          >
                          > ghulam azam <farouqazam@...> wrote: I think Ghafar Khan was much
                          >in line of Gandhi that followed non-voilence
                          >philopsiphy, which was competable with the Hindu circumstances of that
                          >time.
                          >While Ghafar Khan belonged to Pakhtun which are Muslims and fiercely
                          >independent nation. His failure was, in spite of one century long
                          >courageous
                          >struggle, not creating a policy of his own competable to his own people's
                          >culture, history and desires but following what was good for others in his
                          >own community without proper adjustments. Regards. Ghulam
                          >
                          >
                          > >From: "AC" <chpoun@...>
                          > >Reply-To: pakhtu@yahoogroups.com
                          > >To: <pakhtu@yahoogroups.com>
                          > >Subject: RE: [pakhtu] Nonviolent Soldier of Islam: Badshah Khan/soviet
                          > >invasion
                          > >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:30:06 +0200
                          > >
                          > >I dont think he supported the soviet backed regime, but, he was aware (as
                          > >some of us were) of the
                          > >much bigger (by several order of magnitude) disaster which followed the
                          > >collapse of that regime. In this way, he was admirable and visionary.
                          > >A.C.
                          >
                          >
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                        • Mohammad Khan
                          Dear Ghulam Azam. I wish you support your claims about the Indian leadership hating pukhtuns. Please publish any statement by any political indian leader of
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 3, 2002
                            Dear Ghulam Azam.

                            I wish you support your claims about the Indian
                            leadership hating pukhtuns. Please publish any
                            statement by any political indian leader of substance
                            that shows hatred towards pukhtuns. Ghani Khan had
                            excellent relationship with Indira Ghandi. Ghandi and
                            Nehru courted and liked the Surakh posh leaders. That
                            contradicts what you are saying. The fact of the
                            matter is that Bacha Khan loved his people and he
                            sacrificed his life for them. History is written by
                            the victors and what you hear is the distorted facts
                            put out by the people who really hate pukhtuns.

                            Let us not waste our time who likes us or who hates
                            us. Let us work on ourselves. Let us love ourselves.
                            Let us remove the weaknesses that inflict us. It can
                            be done if we educate our people. We are fiercely
                            independent minded and brave people and these
                            qualities will serve us well if we emancipate
                            ourselves from ignorance and illetracy.

                            Kamal
                            --- ghulam azam <farouqazam@...> wrote:
                            > Dear, Gahez Shpol,

                            Wali Khan and Mahmud Khan Achakzai
                            > support any government in
                            > Kabul that enjoys the support of India and hate any
                            > government in Kabul that
                            > Delhi does not like it. Remember the famous slagon
                            > of National Awami Party
                            > in 1980s that was 'Babrak-Wali Bahi Bahi.
                            > Afghans. In the past 24
                            > years, Wali Khan and Mahmud Khan Achakzai supported
                            > every anti-Pashtun
                            > government in Kabul because India wanted. > Please
                            read writings of many
                            > prominent Indian politicians, including the then
                            > prime minister, Jawahar Lal
                            > Nehru's. Then, you will find, how much the Indian
                            > politicians hate the
                            > Pashtuns.

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                          • Gahez Shpol
                            Graan Ghulam Azama, you got my point regarding those mentioned qualities of Pashtuns but what I meant was the US, Wahabis and Pakistan, with the help of
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 3, 2002
                              Graan Ghulam Azama,
                              you got my point regarding those mentioned qualities of Pashtuns but what I meant was the US, Wahabis and Pakistan, with the help of Gulbudeen, Rabanee, Mujadadee and Masud, used those qualities of Pashtuns against Pashtuns. Bacha khan may not have taken advantage of those god gifted quilities of Pashtuns but, he never used them to Pashtuns' disadvantage. He didn't direct them against Pashtuns. His failing to achieve Pashtun's rights was because of technical mistakes in his political strategy, which he made at different stages during his long politcal struggle. Otherwise, he could have changed Pashtun's destiny. Those could be called missed opportunities, not crimes. It will never make him our nation's enimy or a traitor. He was a man of principles, an honest person and a charismatic leader.

                              I have never heard Mahmood Khan Achakzai caling pashutns form the other side of the line 'bhugora' or any thing else, but he always referred to them as 'kadwal wrona' His party has helped more than any other group in Pashtunkhwa making Afghans domicile certificates (the local IDs). Yes, during the war the party leaders kept asking them to go back to Afghanistan, work for the country, instead of getting training from ISI and killing their own brother, sisters and distroyng their own villages. I have lived for five years in Quetta and Chaman in early nineties, from what I saw, Mahmood Khan's Pashtunkhwa party has got more support among Kandaharis of quetta than the local Pashtuns.

                              I have never seen Afghanistan being in the hands of anti pashtuns, as you have said. The rulers were all Pashtuns from Ahmad shah baba to Dr. Najeebullah. Kafirs, communists, nationalist, or whatever in your eyes. They were all supported by Bacha khan, Samad khan and mahmood khan, because there was never ever any better alternative to them when these people were in power. No matter what mistakes these rulers made it was not worth pouring the whole country into war, killing millions, destroying all cities, destroying all national institutions, looting historical treasures, and inviting terrorists from around the world to our country, only to achieve the aim of throwing them out of power. And that�s what muhjadeen leaders were bent on doing, no matter at what cost, and they did it. It was like killing a fly with sledgehammer. The nationalist leaders in Pashtunkhwa at the cost of being called kafirs, being terrorised by both mujahideens killing gangs in Quetta and Peshawar and their ISI mentors, opposed these war mongering beasts, and tried their best to keep the integrity of Afghanistan, save the national institutions, and historical treasures, but they failed against the might of terror. The 'jihad' succeeded to achieve its goals -- throwing Dr. Najeebullah out of power, by force, dismantling Afghan national army and police, starting war inside all cities, causing massacres in all cities, destroying the national capital, killing or forcing out very single man and woman who had got a little education, looting and destroying all national libraries and museums, bringing a havoc upon those who didn�t find a way out.

                              I am not sure what makes people blame Bacha Khan, Samad Khan Mahmood khan when they were begging the mujahideen leaders sit with the Afghan government and solve all issues through negotiations instead of guns and fire. How this destruction of the whole country, as a result of jihad benefited Pashtuns, what good pro-Pashtun government did they install against the ones you called anti-Pashtuns, what purpose of Islam did it serve, what was Rabani celebrating a month ago and what were you congratulating the Afghan nation for on BBC that day????

                              Pu dranawee

                              Gahez
                            • M khan
                              Grana Ghulam Azam wror: Assalam-u-Alaikum! Your statement regarding the role of the Pashtun leadership is realistic and must be examined in the context of the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 5, 2002
                                Grana Ghulam Azam wror:
                                Assalam-u-Alaikum!
                                Your statement regarding the role of the Pashtun leadership is realistic and must be examined in the context of the politics of the past 100 years in the region. These leaders always played to the tunes of foreigners and to a greater extent tried to maintain their grip on power and political influence. Pashtun sentiments and their vital interests were sacrificed at the alter of their masters and patrons. We need new recruits that can protect Pashtuns identity along the lines of popular support from the masses keeping in view the sanctity of our traditional bond with Islam and traditional Pashtun values. There is no room for secular Western values amid the teeming millions who had shown time and again their disgust towards parralell idealogies and alien doctrines.
                                Allah de Ezatmand Lara!
                                Wassalam!
                                Satso
                                Umar Khan Dawar
                              • syeda_tn
                                Adaab, Please excuse my ignorance but can you please explain why there is hatred for Pukhtuns? I keep coming across these statements but don t understand the
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
                                  Adaab,

                                  Please excuse my ignorance but can you please explain why there is
                                  hatred for Pukhtuns? I keep coming across these statements but don't
                                  understand the reasons behind it. I have not lived in Pakistan long
                                  and neither am I a Pathaan. I have been brought up to respect all
                                  people irrespective of their culture, religion etc ..... but it
                                  amazes me to think that even among ourselves we have prejudices ....
                                  I have asked the people making these statements to enlighten me but
                                  maybe because they are cowards to justify their beliefs, they refuse
                                  to explain ... this puzzles me profoundly ......

                                  Would foward to hearing some interesting educational answers .... and
                                  by the way I agree with what Sahib Kamal has said .....





                                  --- In pakhtu@y..., Mohammad Khan <kkhan_01@y...> wrote:
                                  > Dear Ghulam Azam.
                                  >
                                  > I wish you support your claims about the Indian
                                  > leadership hating pukhtuns. Please publish any
                                  > statement by any political indian leader of substance
                                  > that shows hatred towards pukhtuns. Ghani Khan had
                                  > excellent relationship with Indira Ghandi. Ghandi and
                                  > Nehru courted and liked the Surakh posh leaders. That
                                  > contradicts what you are saying. The fact of the
                                  > matter is that Bacha Khan loved his people and he
                                  > sacrificed his life for them. History is written by
                                  > the victors and what you hear is the distorted facts
                                  > put out by the people who really hate pukhtuns.
                                  >
                                  > Let us not waste our time who likes us or who hates
                                  > us. Let us work on ourselves. Let us love ourselves.
                                  > Let us remove the weaknesses that inflict us. It can
                                  > be done if we educate our people. We are fiercely
                                  > independent minded and brave people and these
                                  > qualities will serve us well if we emancipate
                                  > ourselves from ignorance and illetracy.
                                  >
                                  > Kamal
                                • Mohammad Khan
                                  Dear Syeda T, First of all welcome to the forum. secondly, pukhtun hating is over exaggerated. In Pakistan we have around 25 million pukhtuns. In fact Karachi
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 6, 2002
                                    Dear Syeda T,

                                    First of all welcome to the forum. secondly, pukhtun
                                    hating is over exaggerated. In Pakistan we have around
                                    25 million pukhtuns. In fact Karachi is the biggest
                                    pukhtun city. There are ethnic problems in Karachi
                                    between pukhtuns and muhajirs, between pukhtuns and
                                    punjabis, sindhis and punjabis etc but these are the
                                    outcome of turf wars. These wars stem from small
                                    fights which escalates to the entire communities. One
                                    on one punjabis, pukhtuns and muhajir live peacefully
                                    and are quite friendly to each other. There is no
                                    pukhtun or punjabi hating. On the political or higher
                                    level the dominant political leadership are a little
                                    aprehensive of pukhtuns. Since 1947 that particular
                                    group has tried to keep the pukhtun influence as low
                                    as possible. They have tried willfully and
                                    systematically to keep the pukhtun areas backward,
                                    both economically and educationally. But most of the
                                    blame must be placed on our leadership. Either they
                                    were naive and stupid who never observed the gameplan
                                    or were bought. The working class people never had
                                    time to hate anybody.

                                    In Afghanistan the situation is different. There in a
                                    population of 25 million about 17 or 18 million are
                                    pukhtuns but they were ruled by a small dari speaking
                                    people from the north. There because of constant
                                    warfare ethinic hatred has developed. I would not be
                                    surprised if pukhtuns hate the northreners and vice
                                    versa. Therefore we must be careful when we jump to
                                    the conclusions and brand everyone as pukhtun hater. I
                                    hate some of the underhanded policies of the punjabi
                                    dominated pakistan govt. but i do no illwill towards
                                    punjabis or muhajirs. My best friends are from sialkot
                                    and karachi, a punjabi and a muhajir.

                                    Inshallah when education is universal and every
                                    pukhtun, punjabi and muhajir is educated and has a
                                    good living then there will be no talk of hatred.
                                    there will be love and respect for all and towards
                                    all.

                                    Staso Khadem

                                    kamal
                                  • ghulam azam
                                    Umar Khan Dawar, Salam. I agree with you. It is time to learn from our past and make our future. It is not necessary to blame who made mistakes but certainly
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 7, 2002
                                      Umar Khan Dawar, Salam.
                                      I agree with you. It is time to learn from our past and make our future. It
                                      is not necessary to blame who made mistakes but certainly it is necessary to
                                      draw conclusion and correct our vision towards future. Sticking with
                                      mistakes and trying to justify them is usless and even dangerous. We have a
                                      proverb in Pashto 'if you decieve me once curse be upon you; if you could
                                      decieve me twice curse be upon me'. The Holy Prophet says ' a Muslim can not
                                      be bitten twice from a hole'. Regards.
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