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  • Skip
    Hi there, Jim. I m also an FSP member. My partner and I live in Dallas. I thought I d join and see if we could come up with some strategies for drumming up
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 2, 2004
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      Hi there, Jim.

      I'm also an FSP member. My partner and I live in Dallas. I thought
      I'd join and see if we could come up with some strategies for
      drumming up interest in the FSP from the GLBT community.

      Personally, I am a Llibertarian (yes, two L's, big and small L, as in
      Llama). I just joined the LP quite recently, and I've only
      considered myself a small-L libertarian for about a year. While I
      don't particularly identify 100% with any particular camp among
      libertarians, I'm probably closest to AnCap.

      I don't think there are all that many GLBT members (oops, I mean
      participants) within the ranks of the FSP. I think the strong
      libertarian slant of the web site and forum, and the presence of a
      large and vocal number of socially conservative members is enough to
      scare off the traditionally Democratic-leaning GLBTs.

      Unfortunately, most of my GLBT friends and acquaintances think
      libertarians are the ultra-right wing of the Republican party, which
      simply isn't true. Besides that, my GLBT friends are convinced that
      it takes a village, if you know what I mean.

      It would be nice if we could come up with a pitch that would appeal
      to GLBT people. Do you have any ideas?

      Skip.
    • Jim C. Perry
      Hey Skip, welcome! No, I am have been racking my brains trying to come up with ideas for how to pitch the FSP to the BGLT Community. My boyfriend Micah (also
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 2, 2004
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        Hey Skip, welcome! No, I am have been racking my brains trying to come
        up with ideas for how to pitch the FSP to the BGLT Community.

        My boyfriend Micah (also on this list) already lives in NH and I am in
        the process of moving to NH.

        I am trying to figure out a way to turn the whole gay marriage issue
        into a reason to join the ranks of the FSP. If it isn't hard for us to
        get the gay/les/bi wing of the poly crowd interested (as seen from the
        size of the poly yahoo group, if you have ever seen their numbers)
        then I don't see why we cant attract bglt people who arent poly into
        joining as well.

        On that note thought, most polyamorus people learn of this group
        marriage option through books like Stranger in a Strange Land by
        Robert Heinlein... a LIBERTARIAN author, so I must say they are
        usually already Libertarian leaning as it is.

        Jim

        P.S. Other ideas for outreach?


        On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 04:09:46 -0000, Skip <skipabadie@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi there, Jim.
        >
        > I'm also an FSP member. My partner and I live in Dallas. I thought
        > I'd join and see if we could come up with some strategies for
        > drumming up interest in the FSP from the GLBT community.
        >
        > Personally, I am a Llibertarian (yes, two L's, big and small L, as in
        > Llama). I just joined the LP quite recently, and I've only
        > considered myself a small-L libertarian for about a year. While I
        > don't particularly identify 100% with any particular camp among
        > libertarians, I'm probably closest to AnCap.
        >
        > I don't think there are all that many GLBT members (oops, I mean
        > participants) within the ranks of the FSP. I think the strong
        > libertarian slant of the web site and forum, and the presence of a
        > large and vocal number of socially conservative members is enough to
        > scare off the traditionally Democratic-leaning GLBTs.
        >
        > Unfortunately, most of my GLBT friends and acquaintances think
        > libertarians are the ultra-right wing of the Republican party, which
        > simply isn't true. Besides that, my GLBT friends are convinced that
        > it takes a village, if you know what I mean.
        >
        > It would be nice if we could come up with a pitch that would appeal
        > to GLBT people. Do you have any ideas?
        >
        > Skip.
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Vive l'anarchie!
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        Jim C. Perry
        P.O. Box 841
        Nutting Lake, MA 01865
        --
        Phone: (978) 609-6738
        Fax: (347) 710-7904
        Email: jcp@...
        URL: www.jimcperry.com
        URL: www.billericanews.com
        --
        Warning: Pursuant to the USA PATRIOT Act, passed by Congress in 2001
        all electronic transmissions are now read by federal and state law
        enforcement agencies.
        --
        "If an injustice of government is of such a nature that it requires
        injustice to another you should break the law and let your life be a
        counter friction to stop the machine." Henry David Thoreau
      • Skip
        Hi again, Jim. I ve long been a fan of Heinlein. I read all of his books in my late elementary and early Junior High School years, and that was quite a long
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 4, 2004
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          Hi again, Jim.

          I've long been a fan of Heinlein. I read all of his books in my late
          elementary and early Junior High School years, and that was quite a
          long time ago. Stranger in a Strange Land is almost timeless. While
          Heinlein's exploration of group marriage did a great job of
          challenging the traditional social and sexual mores of the time,
          there was a definite anti-gay bias presented. Since at age 13 I was
          very well aware of my own sexual orientation, Heinlein's disapproval
          always bothered me.

          But I got over it :-)

          Gay marriage is a tough topic to bring up during a recruiting effort
          for GLBT folk. For one thing, same-sex marriage is prohibited in New
          Hampshire. NH has also passed a law forbidding recognition of same-
          sex marriages performed by other states. And then there is the
          position of most Libertarians, including myself, that the government
          should not be involved in the business of licensing and regulating
          marriage, nor granting privileges based on marriage. Marriage ought
          to be a private matter, defined by the participants (any number, any
          gender), with government serving at most as enforcer of the
          contractural aspects of the relationship, if any such exist.

          The current laws regarding marriage do not seem like fair treatment
          or equal treatment to most gay couples, or to other non-traditional
          pairings or groups that would like to enjoy some of the privileges
          and protections that government affords married opposite-sex couples.

          It doesn't seem fair to me either. For the longest time, I argued
          that absent complete government disentanglement in marriage, the only
          just course would be to make marriage gender-blind in order to ensure
          equal treatment under the law for all couples (or groups) wishing to
          marry.

          Equal treatment is the sought-after goal. There are two ways to
          achieve it. The state can recognize and license same-sex marriage
          and accord it all the same privileges and benefits of opposite-sex
          marriage, or the state can relinquish all regulation of marriage and
          the provision of benefits and privileges for all married people. I
          believe the latter is more in keeping with libertarian principles, as
          it reduces the power, size, and authority of government in our
          lives.

          Now, even though most libertarians agree that the government should
          not be involved in marriage, practically none of them consider the
          issue to be important enough to actually spend any effort fighting to
          get governemnt out of the marriage business for opposite-sex
          couples. I think most of them that are married are happy to take
          advantage of the privileges and benefits that the government offers
          them in the meantime, while rationalizing their inactivity on the
          marriage front in various ways. They might claim that there are so
          many more important issues that should take higher priority, or that
          marriage is such a sacred cow that it can't be effectively fought
          right now. The fact that both of those rationalizations are also
          probably true is what mostly makes the marriage issue a tough sell.

          Now, I've been speaking from a Libertarian perspective, but if you
          read the FSP Statement of Intent, you'd have to conclude that
          advocating the expansion of government power to allow it to recognize
          and benefit same-gender marriage is contrary to the SOI.

          Like I said, same-gender marriage is a tough topic, and doesn't seem
          a likely one to win support from BGLT when you have to admit that
          probably very few libertarians really think the problem is important
          enough to tackle head on in our lifetimes. You can make the
          intellectual case, but you have to be dealing with fairly well-
          educated and mature people to start with.

          I need to give some thought to what attracted me to the FSP, and see
          if there is any tie-in to my gender-preference. I'm not sure that
          there is such a link.

          Skip.









          --- In outfsp@yahoogroups.com, "Jim C. Perry" <jcp@j...> wrote:
          > Hey Skip, welcome! No, I am have been racking my brains trying to
          come
          > up with ideas for how to pitch the FSP to the BGLT Community.
          >
          > My boyfriend Micah (also on this list) already lives in NH and I am
          in
          > the process of moving to NH.
          >
          > I am trying to figure out a way to turn the whole gay marriage issue
          > into a reason to join the ranks of the FSP. If it isn't hard for us
          to
          > get the gay/les/bi wing of the poly crowd interested (as seen from
          the
          > size of the poly yahoo group, if you have ever seen their numbers)
          > then I don't see why we cant attract bglt people who arent poly into
          > joining as well.
          >
          > On that note thought, most polyamorus people learn of this group
          > marriage option through books like Stranger in a Strange Land by
          > Robert Heinlein... a LIBERTARIAN author, so I must say they are
          > usually already Libertarian leaning as it is.
          >
          > Jim
          >
          > P.S. Other ideas for outreach?
          >
          >
          >
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