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Re: [osint] Re: TWA-800: Lewis vs Goddard

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  • RONALD LEWIS
    Mike, I DID supply information on the source of the missiles. The very same article that Goddard cites from the LONDON TIMES, in August 1996, stated that the
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 31, 2001
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      Mike,

      I DID supply information on the source of the missiles. The very same
      article that Goddard cites from the LONDON TIMES, in August 1996, stated
      that the missiles had been smuggled into Canada and were funneled into the
      US. The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service (CSIS) would later
      publicly admit, in their arrest of Hani al-Sayegh, driver of the getaway car
      for the
      survivors of the truck bombing at Dhahran, that Hezbollah cells were active
      in Canada for the express purpose of launching terror attacks on the US.

      Canada would also be the source for the chemicals and the intended bomber
      caught on the Washington/Canadian border in December 1999, Ahmed Ressam,
      convicted member of al-Qaeda.

      Goddard is not merely mistaken. His attempt to once again bury the RBS-70
      as a likely candidate, is proof of that. He knows what my article said and
      he knows what I have said to him. He knows that he denied it had the
      capability five years ago and he knows I bitterly challenged him on that
      point today. Did he merely forget? I don't believe so. If he knows we
      covered this in the past, he knows what I told him and he knows that he did
      everything in his power--and with the assistance of his associates like
      Marshall Houston--to descredit not only what I said about the RBS 70 but
      MANPADs in general. This is precisely why I will not talk to him and why I
      have hestitated in joining any list that has him as a member. He is a
      certified liar and cannot be trusted to be debate an issue on the merits of
      an argument and with honesty. As such, he is a waste of time.

      Ron Lewis

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mike Schneider <mike1@...>
      To: <American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com>; <osint@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:29 PM
      Subject: [osint] Re: TWA-800: Lewis vs Goddard


      > Posted to: American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com, osint@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > At 6:09 PM -0500 12/30/01, bobhunt@... wrote:
      > >I know Ian Goddard would surprized to find out he has been "well funded".
      >
      >
      > He's certainly not as well-funded as Dick(head)! Hanson -- that's for
      sure.
      >
      >
      > >Also his past admission was that he made a mistake not an intentional
      lie.
      > >
      > >bob hunt
      >
      >
      > Observations:
      >
      > 1. Color the following by the knowledge that I don't particularly
      > know Ian that well. Figure a couple posts of month for three or four
      > years.
      >
      > 2. I've never observed him deliberately lie. I *have* seen him make
      > mistakes and occasionally post something really boneheaded. While
      > reflexively anti-government (a plus in my book), he's certainly not a
      > psycho-religious communazi crank in the Dick Eastman, "X98" or Carol
      > Valentine mold. (I recall Carol calling him a fed stooge or some such
      > a year ago over the WACO "fireball" origin question. Also, Goddard
      > recently informed me as to the true identity of "X98", Robert Arnold,
      > via WacoTragedyNews.)
      >
      > 3. I have met hundreds of people who are far "more despicable". I can
      > introduce Ronald to persons who've managed to lie, deliberately, in
      > some cases professionally, in nearly 100% of their entire archived
      > record of internet existence, and somehow manage to remain unshot
      > despite helpful pointers to their place of domicile. True, living
      > pieces of excrement.
      >
      > 4. Although I generally agree with Ronald so far, I wish he would
      > cite his sources regarding (as one example) who supplied the missiles
      > which brought down TWA-800.
      >
      > 5. The NTSB is a pretty -- no, make that *very* -- shitty source of a
      > quotation savaging anybody on who owes whom an apology for lying,
      > because....
      >
      > 6. ...the govt *did* knowingly LIE about what brought down TWA-800,
      which....
      >
      > 7. ...in the wake of Waco, caused critics to *reflexively* suspect
      > that the government itself had something to do with it, albeit
      > accidentally, -- a perfectly logical assumption. If subsequent
      > research shows that initial suspicion to be wrong, that *doesn't*
      > mean that it was unwarranted in the first place. After all, lying
      > destroys your credibility. Consequent to that....
      >
      > 8. ...government-sourced revelations concerning terrorist activity
      > have a considerably steeper verification hurdle from the perspective
      > of the skeptical as they consider the source. Ian, with more
      > knowledge of Waco than most, may have been TOO skeptical.
      >
      > 9. People change. In five years, I've seen some wise up, and others
      > *completely* lose their minds.
      >
      >
      >
      > >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:20:16 -0000, "mike18xx" <mike1@...>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
      > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
      > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
      > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
      > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
      > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
      > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
      > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
      > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
      > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
      > > >since
      > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
      > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
      > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
      > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
      > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
      > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
      > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
      > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
      > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
      > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
      > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
      > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
      > > >theorists.
      > > >
      > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
      > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
      > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
      > > >two.
      > > >
      > > >Ron Lewis
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--------------------------------------------------
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
      > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
      > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
      > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
      > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
      > > >
      > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
      > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
      > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
      > > >bottom of his posts.
      > > >
      > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
      > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
      > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
      > > >linkages
      > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
      > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
      > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
      > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
      > > >person
      > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
      > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
      > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
      > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
      > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
      > > >known
      > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
      > > >terror attacks on the US.
      > > >
      > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
      > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
      > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
      > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
      > > >could to try to discredit the story.
      > > >
      > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
      > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
      > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
      > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
      > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
      > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
      > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
      > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
      > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
      > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
      > > >
      > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
      > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
      > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
      > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
      > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
      > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
      > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
      > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
      > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
      > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
      > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
      > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
      > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
      > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
      > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
      > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
      > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
      > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
      > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
      > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
      > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
      > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
      > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
      > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
      > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
      > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
      > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
      > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
      > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
      > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
      > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
      > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
      > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
      > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
      > > >will.
      > > >
      > > >Ron Lewis
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--------------------------------------------------
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
      > > >'reckless' "
      > > >
      > > ><http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
      > >711/05/twa.missile/
      > > >
      > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
      > > >
      > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
      > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
      > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
      > > >
      > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
      > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
      > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
      > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
      > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
      > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
      > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
      > > >accusations.
      > > >
      > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
      > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
      > > >explanation to the American public.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--------------------------------------------------
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
      > > >
      > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
      > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
      > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard
      > > >
      > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
      > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
      > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
      > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
      > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
      > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
      > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
      > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
      > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
      > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
      > > >since
      > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
      > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
      > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
      > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
      > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
      > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
      > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
      > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
      > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
      > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
      > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
      > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
      > > >theorists.
      > > >
      > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
      > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
      > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
      > > >two.
      > > >
      > > >Ron Lewis
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--------------------------------------------------
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
      > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
      > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
      > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
      > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
      > > >
      > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
      > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
      > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
      > > >bottom of his posts.
      > > >
      > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
      > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
      > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
      > > >linkages
      > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
      > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
      > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
      > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
      > > >person
      > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
      > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
      > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
      > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
      > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
      > > >known
      > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
      > > >terror attacks on the US.
      > > >
      > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
      > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
      > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
      > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
      > > >could to try to discredit the story.
      > > >
      > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
      > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
      > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
      > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
      > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
      > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
      > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
      > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
      > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
      > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
      > > >
      > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
      > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
      > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
      > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
      > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
      > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
      > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
      > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
      > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
      > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
      > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
      > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
      > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
      > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
      > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
      > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
      > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
      > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
      > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
      > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
      > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
      > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
      > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
      > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
      > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
      > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
      > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
      > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
      > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
      > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
      > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
      > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
      > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
      > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
      > > >will.
      > > >
      > > >Ron Lewis
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--------------------------------------------------
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
      > > >'reckless' "
      > > >
      > > ><http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
      > >711/05/twa.missile/
      > > >
      > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
      > > >
      > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
      > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
      > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
      > > >
      > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
      > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
      > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
      > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
      > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
      > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
      > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
      > > >accusations.
      > > >
      > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
      > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
      > > >explanation to the American public.
      > > >
      > > >------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
      > > >
      > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
      > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
      > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard
      >
      >
      >
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    • Mike Schneider
      With the moderator s warning firmly in mind, I ll keep this brief: ... I would be very appreciative of any URLs you have in this regard. Have any of those
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        With the moderator's warning firmly in mind, I'll keep this brief:


        At 12:29 AM -0800 12/31/01, RONALD LEWIS wrote:
        >Mike,
        >
        >I DID supply information on the source of the missiles. The very same
        >article that Goddard cites from the LONDON TIMES, in August 1996, stated
        >that the missiles had been smuggled into Canada and were funneled into the
        >US. The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service (CSIS) would later
        >publicly admit, in their arrest of Hani al-Sayegh, driver of the getaway car
        >for the survivors of the truck bombing at Dhahran, that Hezbollah
        >cells were active in Canada for the express purpose of launching
        >terror attacks on the US.
        >
        >Canada would also be the source for the chemicals and the intended bomber
        >caught on the Washington/Canadian border in December 1999, Ahmed Ressam,
        >convicted member of al-Qaeda.


        I would be very appreciative of any URLs you have in this regard.
        Have any of those involved admitted responsibility? Admitted that
        these particular weapons shot down the plane? Proof thereof sans
        admissions?

        If missiles were indeed transported, then intent is clearly
        established, but the step from there to actual culpability
        is....another step.

        Which brings us to....


        >Goddard is not merely mistaken. His attempt to once again bury the RBS-70
        >as a likely candidate, is proof of that. He knows what my article said and
        >he knows what I have said to him. He knows that he denied it had the
        >capability five years ago and he knows I bitterly challenged him on that
        >point today.


        ....the sort of thing that I call a "numbers argument". What *is* the
        capability of this weapon, and where are the two of you (with
        different numbers) getting your information?


        >Did he merely forget? I don't believe so. If he knows we
        >covered this in the past, he knows what I told him and he knows that he did
        >everything in his power--and with the assistance of his associates like
        >Marshall Houston--to descredit not only what I said about the RBS 70 but
        >MANPADs in general. This is precisely why I will not talk to him and why I
        >have hestitated in joining any list that has him as a member. He is a
        >certified liar and cannot be trusted to be debate an issue on the merits of
        >an argument and with honesty. As such, he is a waste of time.
        >
        >Ron Lewis


        Suffice to say that I'm a tough sell. I know real lying "weaseling"
        when I see it, and so far, disagreements over numbers or opinions
        regarding the veracity of various 3rd-party sources aren't enough to
        qualify for the label. Perhaps it was that way in the past, but I
        haven't seen it yet in the present.

        (I will also reiterate my objection concerning the honesty of the NTSB.)

        Mike.

        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: Mike Schneider <mike1@...>
        >To: <American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com>; <osint@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:29 PM
        >Subject: [osint] Re: TWA-800: Lewis vs Goddard
        >
        >
        > > Posted to: American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com, osint@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > > At 6:09 PM -0500 12/30/01, bobhunt@... wrote:
        > > >I know Ian Goddard would surprized to find out he has been "well funded".
        > >
        > >
        > > He's certainly not as well-funded as Dick(head)! Hanson -- that's for
        >sure.
        > >
        > >
        > > >Also his past admission was that he made a mistake not an intentional
        >lie.
        > > >
        > > >bob hunt
        > >
        > >
        > > Observations:
        > >
        > > 1. Color the following by the knowledge that I don't particularly
        > > know Ian that well. Figure a couple posts of month for three or four
        > > years.
        > >
        > > 2. I've never observed him deliberately lie. I *have* seen him make
        > > mistakes and occasionally post something really boneheaded. While
        > > reflexively anti-government (a plus in my book), he's certainly not a
        > > psycho-religious communazi crank in the Dick Eastman, "X98" or Carol
        > > Valentine mold. (I recall Carol calling him a fed stooge or some such
        > > a year ago over the WACO "fireball" origin question. Also, Goddard
        > > recently informed me as to the true identity of "X98", Robert Arnold,
        > > via WacoTragedyNews.)
        > >
        > > 3. I have met hundreds of people who are far "more despicable". I can
        > > introduce Ronald to persons who've managed to lie, deliberately, in
        > > some cases professionally, in nearly 100% of their entire archived
        > > record of internet existence, and somehow manage to remain unshot
        > > despite helpful pointers to their place of domicile. True, living
        > > pieces of excrement.
        > >
        > > 4. Although I generally agree with Ronald so far, I wish he would
        > > cite his sources regarding (as one example) who supplied the missiles
        > > which brought down TWA-800.
        > >
        > > 5. The NTSB is a pretty -- no, make that *very* -- shitty source of a
        > > quotation savaging anybody on who owes whom an apology for lying,
        > > because....
        > >
        > > 6. ...the govt *did* knowingly LIE about what brought down TWA-800,
        >which....
        > >
        > > 7. ...in the wake of Waco, caused critics to *reflexively* suspect
        > > that the government itself had something to do with it, albeit
        > > accidentally, -- a perfectly logical assumption. If subsequent
        > > research shows that initial suspicion to be wrong, that *doesn't*
        > > mean that it was unwarranted in the first place. After all, lying
        > > destroys your credibility. Consequent to that....
        > >
        > > 8. ...government-sourced revelations concerning terrorist activity
        > > have a considerably steeper verification hurdle from the perspective
        > > of the skeptical as they consider the source. Ian, with more
        > > knowledge of Waco than most, may have been TOO skeptical.
        > >
        > > 9. People change. In five years, I've seen some wise up, and others
        > > *completely* lose their minds.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:20:16 -0000, "mike18xx" <mike1@...>
        >wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
        > > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
        > > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
        > > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
        > > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
        > > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
        > > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
        > > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
        > > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
        > > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
        > > > >since
        > > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
        > > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
        > > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
        > > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
        > > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
        > > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
        > > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
        > > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
        > > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
        > > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
        > > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
        > > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
        > > > >theorists.
        > > > >
        > > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
        > > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
        > > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
        > > > >two.
        > > > >
        > > > >Ron Lewis
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >--------------------------------------------------
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
        > > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
        > > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
        > > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
        > > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
        > > > >
        > > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
        > > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
        > > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
        > > > >bottom of his posts.
        > > > >
        > > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
        > > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
        > > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
        > > > >linkages
        > > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
        > > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
        > > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
        > > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
        > > > >person
        > > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
        > > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
        > > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
        > > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
        > > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
        > > > >known
        > > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
        > > > >terror attacks on the US.
        > > > >
        > > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
        > > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
        > > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
        > > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
        > > > >could to try to discredit the story.
        > > > >
        > > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
        > > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
        > > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
        > > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
        > > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
        > > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
        > > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
        > > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
        > > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
        > > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
        > > > >
        > > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
        > > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
        > > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
        > > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
        > > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
        > > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
        > > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
        > > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
        > > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
        > > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
        > > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
        > > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
        > > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
        > > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
        > > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
        > > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
        > > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
        > > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
        > > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
        > > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
        > > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
        > > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
        > > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
        > > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
        > > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
        > > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
        > > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
        > > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
        > > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
        > > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
        > > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
        > > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
        > > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
        > > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
        > > > >will.
        > > > >
        > > > >Ron Lewis
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >--------------------------------------------------
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
        > > > >'reckless' "
        > > > >
        > > >
        >><<http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/97
        >11/05/twa.missile/><http://www.cnn.com/US/9>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
        > > >711/05/twa.missile/
        > > > >
        > > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
        > > > >
        > > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
        > > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
        > > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
        > > > >
        > > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
        > > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
        > > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
        > > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
        > > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
        > > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
        > > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
        > > > >accusations.
        > > > >
        > > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
        > > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
        > > > >explanation to the American public.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >--------------------------------------------------
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
        > > > >
        > > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
        > > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
        > > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard
        > > > >
        > > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
        > > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
        > > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
        > > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
        > > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
        > > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
        > > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
        > > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
        > > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
        > > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
        > > > >since
        > > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
        > > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
        > > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
        > > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
        > > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
        > > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
        > > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
        > > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
        > > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
        > > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
        > > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
        > > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
        > > > >theorists.
        > > > >
        > > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
        > > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
        > > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
        > > > >two.
        > > > >
        > > > >Ron Lewis
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >--------------------------------------------------
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
        > > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
        > > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
        > > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
        > > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
        > > > >
        > > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
        > > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
        > > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
        > > > >bottom of his posts.
        > > > >
        > > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
        > > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
        > > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
        > > > >linkages
        > > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
        > > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
        > > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
        > > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
        > > > >person
        > > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
        > > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
        > > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
        > > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
        > > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
        > > > >known
        > > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
        > > > >terror attacks on the US.
        > > > >
        > > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
        > > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
        > > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
        > > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
        > > > >could to try to discredit the story.
        > > > >
        > > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
        > > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
        > > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
        > > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
        > > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
        > > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
        > > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
        > > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
        > > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
        > > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
        > > > >
        > > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
        > > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
        > > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
        > > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
        > > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
        > > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
        > > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
        > > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
        > > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
        > > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
        > > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
        > > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
        > > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
        > > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
        > > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
        > > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
        > > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
        > > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
        > > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
        > > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
        > > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
        > > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
        > > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
        > > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
        > > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
        > > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
        > > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
        > > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
        > > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
        > > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
        > > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
        > > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
        > > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
        > > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
        > > > >will.
        > > > >
        > > > >Ron Lewis
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >--------------------------------------------------
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
        > > > >'reckless' "
        > > > >
        > > >
        >><<http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/97
        >11/05/twa.missile/><http://www.cnn.com/US/9>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
        > > >711/05/twa.missile/
        > > > >
        > > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
        > > > >
        > > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
        > > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
        > > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
        > > > >
        > > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
        > > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
        > > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
        > > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
        > > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
        > > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
        > > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
        > > > >accusations.
        > > > >
        > > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
        > > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
        > > > >explanation to the American public.
        > > > >
        > > > >------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
        > > > >
        > > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
        > > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
        > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard



        ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------
      • CodeTen7
        ... lie.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          >>>Also his past admission was that he made a mistake not an intentional
          lie.<<<<

          Is this sorta/kinda like the MISTAKE Geraldo made while reporting a tear jerking scene that he walked amongst even though he was hundreds of miles away from it? Let's call a spade a spade, a lie, a lie and a mistake, a mistake.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: RONALD LEWIS
          To: osint@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 1:29 AM
          Subject: Re: [osint] Re: TWA-800: Lewis vs Goddard


          Mike,

          I DID supply information on the source of the missiles. The very same
          article that Goddard cites from the LONDON TIMES, in August 1996, stated
          that the missiles had been smuggled into Canada and were funneled into the
          US. The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service (CSIS) would later
          publicly admit, in their arrest of Hani al-Sayegh, driver of the getaway car
          for the
          survivors of the truck bombing at Dhahran, that Hezbollah cells were active
          in Canada for the express purpose of launching terror attacks on the US.

          Canada would also be the source for the chemicals and the intended bomber
          caught on the Washington/Canadian border in December 1999, Ahmed Ressam,
          convicted member of al-Qaeda.

          Goddard is not merely mistaken. His attempt to once again bury the RBS-70
          as a likely candidate, is proof of that. He knows what my article said and
          he knows what I have said to him. He knows that he denied it had the
          capability five years ago and he knows I bitterly challenged him on that
          point today. Did he merely forget? I don't believe so. If he knows we
          covered this in the past, he knows what I told him and he knows that he did
          everything in his power--and with the assistance of his associates like
          Marshall Houston--to descredit not only what I said about the RBS 70 but
          MANPADs in general. This is precisely why I will not talk to him and why I
          have hestitated in joining any list that has him as a member. He is a
          certified liar and cannot be trusted to be debate an issue on the merits of
          an argument and with honesty. As such, he is a waste of time.

          Ron Lewis

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Mike Schneider <mike1@...>
          To: <American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com>; <osint@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:29 PM
          Subject: [osint] Re: TWA-800: Lewis vs Goddard


          > Posted to: American_Liberty@yahoogroups.com, osint@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > At 6:09 PM -0500 12/30/01, bobhunt@... wrote:
          > >I know Ian Goddard would surprized to find out he has been "well funded".
          >
          >
          > He's certainly not as well-funded as Dick(head)! Hanson -- that's for
          sure.
          >
          >
          > >Also his past admission was that he made a mistake not an intentional
          lie.
          > >
          > >bob hunt
          >
          >
          > Observations:
          >
          > 1. Color the following by the knowledge that I don't particularly
          > know Ian that well. Figure a couple posts of month for three or four
          > years.
          >
          > 2. I've never observed him deliberately lie. I *have* seen him make
          > mistakes and occasionally post something really boneheaded. While
          > reflexively anti-government (a plus in my book), he's certainly not a
          > psycho-religious communazi crank in the Dick Eastman, "X98" or Carol
          > Valentine mold. (I recall Carol calling him a fed stooge or some such
          > a year ago over the WACO "fireball" origin question. Also, Goddard
          > recently informed me as to the true identity of "X98", Robert Arnold,
          > via WacoTragedyNews.)
          >
          > 3. I have met hundreds of people who are far "more despicable". I can
          > introduce Ronald to persons who've managed to lie, deliberately, in
          > some cases professionally, in nearly 100% of their entire archived
          > record of internet existence, and somehow manage to remain unshot
          > despite helpful pointers to their place of domicile. True, living
          > pieces of excrement.
          >
          > 4. Although I generally agree with Ronald so far, I wish he would
          > cite his sources regarding (as one example) who supplied the missiles
          > which brought down TWA-800.
          >
          > 5. The NTSB is a pretty -- no, make that *very* -- shitty source of a
          > quotation savaging anybody on who owes whom an apology for lying,
          > because....
          >
          > 6. ...the govt *did* knowingly LIE about what brought down TWA-800,
          which....
          >
          > 7. ...in the wake of Waco, caused critics to *reflexively* suspect
          > that the government itself had something to do with it, albeit
          > accidentally, -- a perfectly logical assumption. If subsequent
          > research shows that initial suspicion to be wrong, that *doesn't*
          > mean that it was unwarranted in the first place. After all, lying
          > destroys your credibility. Consequent to that....
          >
          > 8. ...government-sourced revelations concerning terrorist activity
          > have a considerably steeper verification hurdle from the perspective
          > of the skeptical as they consider the source. Ian, with more
          > knowledge of Waco than most, may have been TOO skeptical.
          >
          > 9. People change. In five years, I've seen some wise up, and others
          > *completely* lose their minds.
          >
          >
          >
          > >On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:20:16 -0000, "mike18xx" <mike1@...>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
          > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
          > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
          > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
          > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
          > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
          > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
          > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
          > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
          > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
          > > >since
          > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
          > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
          > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
          > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
          > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
          > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
          > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
          > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
          > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
          > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
          > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
          > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
          > > >theorists.
          > > >
          > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
          > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
          > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
          > > >two.
          > > >
          > > >Ron Lewis
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--------------------------------------------------
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
          > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
          > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
          > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
          > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
          > > >
          > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
          > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
          > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
          > > >bottom of his posts.
          > > >
          > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
          > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
          > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
          > > >linkages
          > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
          > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
          > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
          > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
          > > >person
          > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
          > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
          > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
          > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
          > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
          > > >known
          > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
          > > >terror attacks on the US.
          > > >
          > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
          > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
          > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
          > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
          > > >could to try to discredit the story.
          > > >
          > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
          > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
          > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
          > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
          > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
          > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
          > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
          > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
          > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
          > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
          > > >
          > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
          > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
          > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
          > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
          > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
          > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
          > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
          > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
          > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
          > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
          > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
          > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
          > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
          > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
          > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
          > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
          > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
          > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
          > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
          > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
          > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
          > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
          > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
          > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
          > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
          > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
          > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
          > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
          > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
          > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
          > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
          > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
          > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
          > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
          > > >will.
          > > >
          > > >Ron Lewis
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--------------------------------------------------
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
          > > >'reckless' "
          > > >
          > > ><http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
          > >711/05/twa.missile/
          > > >
          > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
          > > >
          > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
          > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
          > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
          > > >
          > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
          > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
          > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
          > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
          > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
          > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
          > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
          > > >accusations.
          > > >
          > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
          > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
          > > >explanation to the American public.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--------------------------------------------------
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
          > > >
          > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
          > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
          > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard
          > > >
          > > >From: RONALD LEWIS <intellig@p...> Date: F
          > > >ri Dec 28, 2001
          > > >9:32 pm Subject: GODDARD--Re: TWA 800: Terrorist Questions
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I began this post with the intent of simply stating that I
          > > >didn't want to get into a discussion of Ian Goddard. As I
          > > >started to outline just a few details of his crimes, it proved
          > > >impossible to just put it in a few paragraphs. I'm not certain
          > > >of the level of interest in TWA 800 on this list and do not
          > > >want to make Intellnet a forum for the subject. However, in
          > > >light of all of the attacks this country has suffered at the
          > > >hands of Osama bin-Laden and have been attributed to him
          > > >since
          > > >August 1998, I think you deserve to know the truth about what
          > > >Ian Goddard did and he is tied into all of this. It is
          > > >important, not only in understanding TWA 800 but for being
          > > >able to appreciate that the threat we face is not just from
          > > >darker-skinned, Middle Eastern-appearing individuals who
          > > >believe in Islam. We have our own traitors and fifth
          > > >columnists in this country, who will do the bidding of our
          > > >enemies because they hate this country, its government and its
          > > >system, and harbor contempt for its citizens. This individual
          > > >has been responsible for a long-term, detailed and well-funded
          > > >disinformation campaign which CNN mistakenly referred to as
          > > >nothing more than some kind of harmless group of conspiracy
          > > >theorists.
          > > >
          > > >Midway through the second paragraph below, I decided that you
          > > >do need to know about Ian Goddard--the TRUTH about Ian
          > > >Goddard. As such, I continued beyond just a mere paragraph or
          > > >two.
          > > >
          > > >Ron Lewis
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--------------------------------------------------
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >I could literally write a book about Ian Goddard. Suffice it
          > > >to say that I don't want to waste anybody's time over this
          > > >individual. He was one of the chief proponents of the claim
          > > >that the Navy shot down and then covered up TWA 800. It was a
          > > >lie. He had to confess to that in November 1997.
          > > >
          > > >He also claimed that the US government was also responsible
          > > >for the first World Trace Center bombing in 1993 and the
          > > >Oklahoma City bombing. All three tragedies were linked at the
          > > >bottom of his posts.
          > > >
          > > >To be blunt, I consider Ian Goddard to be a traitor and a
          > > >willing supporter of Islamic fundamentalists who attacked this
          > > >country under Osama bin-Laden. He was advised of the
          > > >linkages
          > > >between Osama bin-Laden and Parveez Syed, a "reporter" for
          > > >Shanti RTV in London and he dismissed it, ridiculing what I
          > > >told him and falsely claiming that I issued a death threat
          > > >against him. I have never encountered a more despicable
          > > >person
          > > >in my entire life. Even in this article, he continues to
          > > >perpetuate half-truths and disinformation. The London Times
          > > >report he cites stated that three missiles were smuggled in
          > > >during Dec 95/Jan 96, from Canada, though Hezbollah cells
          > > >which the Canadians would later publicly announced were
          > > >known
          > > >to be operating in Canada for the express purpose of launching
          > > >terror attacks on the US.
          > > >
          > > >I carefully detailed how a Swedish Bofors RBS-70 laser-guided
          > > >missile would, indeed, have the necessary range to hit an
          > > >airliner at the altitude at which Flt 800 was flying. Goddard
          > > >knows all of this because I told him and he did everything he
          > > >could to try to discredit the story.
          > > >
          > > >It is literally sickening to think that an individual like
          > > >Goddard, who deliberately put the families of TWA 800 through
          > > >hell and made them think that their own Navy killed their
          > > >families, is now changing his spots and trying to pass himself
          > > >off as a rational person capable of examining the possibility
          > > >of a terrorist act. A Leopard may be able to conceal his spots
          > > >but it doesn't change the fact that he is a leopard. Goddard
          > > >should be in prison for fraud and interference in a federal
          > > >criminal investigation, not sitting at a keyboard spreading
          > > >more disinformation, albeit in a subtler form.
          > > >
          > > >I have no desire to debate him, talk to him or even address
          > > >further comments about him. He is a documented, admitted liar,
          > > >having admitted that his entire campaign to pose the TWA 800
          > > >incident as a Navy conspiracy was intended to "give the
          > > >government a black eye." Check it out below. I'm still waiting
          > > >for the explanation. Meanwhile, his pal Salinger went on to
          > > >write the foreword for a book by Moammar Qadaffi. It was
          > > >Salinger who wrote a book trying to divert suspicion for Pan
          > > >Am 103 away from Libya and Qadaffi. What a pair! Both belong
          > > >in federal prison with lengthy sentences. I tried to explain
          > > >to the world that TWA 800 was brought down by terrorists.
          > > >Because I had a day job and more limited resources than
          > > >Goddard did, and because people naturally did not want to
          > > >believe a terrorist assault because of what that might really
          > > >portend, Goddard was successful with his disinformation
          > > >campaign. I hope he is happy with the fact that his efforts
          > > >protected bin-Laden's al-Qaeda from serious scrutiny, leading
          > > >to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, then
          > > >the USS COLE bombing and, finally, 9-11. NOW people are
          > > >beginning to accept this theory, and only now. I blame Ian
          > > >Goddard, Pierre Salinger and their backer, Ramsey Clark for
          > > >creating the conditions that would not allow the public to
          > > >know the truth without all of the admitted deception.
          > > >Goddard's efforts were not reckless. Those actions were
          > > >deliberate, they were calculated and they aided a terrorist
          > > >organization in continuing to carry out its plans. They imbued
          > > >the mere thought of a missile strike with so much
          > > >conspiratorial nonsense that, eventually, nobody listened to
          > > >anything about the possibility of a missile strike. It is
          > > >offensive, in the extreme, to hear that, of all people, Ian
          > > >Goddard is now discussing the possibility of a terrorist
          > > >missile. That bastard knew it was a terrorist missile from the
          > > >beginning. Just what was his "larger agenda" as cited in the
          > > >quote below? Some have never forgotten what he did, and never
          > > >will.
          > > >
          > > >Ron Lewis
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >--------------------------------------------------
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >"TWA missile theory co-author apologizes--Says report was
          > > >'reckless' "
          > > >
          > > ><http://www.cnn.com/US/9711/05/twa.missile/>http://www.cnn.com/US/9
          > >711/05/twa.missile/
          > > >
          > > >November 5, 1997 Web posted at: 2:05 p.m. EST (1905 GMT)
          > > >
          > > >NEW YORK (CNN) -- Ian Goddard, co-author of a report that
          > > >claimed the U.S. Navy shot down TWA Flight 800, has told CNN
          > > >that those charges were "reckless and a mistake." ....
          > > >
          > > >...National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Goelz,
          > > >on learning of the Goddard apology, said that Goddard had done
          > > >real damage, particularly to the victims' families, by
          > > >promoting charges that the Navy's "friendly fire" caused the
          > > >July 1996 crash. "He has caused innumerable people great
          > > >agony," Goelz said, adding that both the FBI and the NTSB had
          > > >to spend time responding to what were basically groundless
          > > >accusations.
          > > >
          > > >Joe Lychner of Houston, who lost his wife and two daughters in
          > > >the crash, told CNN that Goddard and Salinger owe an
          > > >explanation to the American public.
          > > >
          > > >------------------------------
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >QUOTE FROM SAME ARTICLE:
          > > >
          > > >"I just wanted to give the government a black eye by any means
          > > >that looked opportune. TWA 800 was just a vehicle for my
          > > >larger agenda." - Ian Goddard
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          > --------------------------
          > Brooks Isoldi, editor
          > bisoldi@...
          >
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          >



          --------------------------
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          bisoldi@...

          http://www.intellnet.org

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