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Re: : Blacklisted Groups Visible on Web

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  • Brooks Isoldi
    Im sorry, but neither this list nor the The Intelligence Network will be a party to any public list that is generated for the purposes mentioned above. --
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 30, 2001
      Im sorry, but neither this list nor the The Intelligence Network will be a
      party to any public "list" that is generated for the purposes mentioned
      above.


      --
      Brooks Isoldi
      The Intelligence Network
      http://www.intellnet.org
      877-581-3724 [Voicemail/Fax]

      "When in the Course of human Events, it
      becomes necessary for one People to
      dissolve the Political Bands which have
      connected them with another..."
      -Declaration of Independence (1776)
    • Mike Schneider
      ... *Precisely* at the moment when it s no longer just a yokel in cyberspace making a list, and, instead, a government agency. ... [...] ... Draw those lines
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 1, 2001
        At 2:23 AM +0000 12/1/01, Bill Draper wrote:
        >--- In osint@y..., Graham.Webb5@B... wrote:
        >
        > > All I'm suggesting is we make a list of the
        > > groups posting hatred -- left, right, Christian,
        > > or Muslim -- and where it's stored *PHYSICALLY*
        > > on the internet.
        >
        >It's an old idea, and usually not successful. But how do you define
        >hatred? In creating your blacklist, what comprises hate content?
        >Who decides? Sometimes it's easy, but where do you draw the line
        >between hatred and dissent? Who do you allow to continue to use the
        >Internet and who do you try to force off?
        >
        >When do you decide access to international servers should no longer
        >be allowed?


        *Precisely* at the moment when it's no longer just a yokel in
        cyberspace making a list, and, instead, a government agency.


        >Should international sites be mirrored at all? China
        >doesn't think so, because subversive content should not be allowed on
        >government servers. They simply decided everything international was
        >subversive. We could do the same if we decide to stifle dissent
        >altogether.
        >
        >The bookburners believe in free speech as well - as long as they
        >decided what is said and written. Few people approve of or want to
        >spread hatred, but everybody seems to disagree when lines start being
        >drawn and blacklists start including issues they believe in.


        [...]


        >Do you know how to draw those lines without infringing on the rights of
        >others to speak their piece?


        "Draw those lines" is a euphemism. If all Graham.Webb5@B... is doing
        is posting a list of ISP's with shady clients, he's engaging in his
        *own* "free speech" (in any place which will allow it, mindful of
        their own property rights) and violating no one else's in the process.


        >Or is that not part of your idea of what America should be?


        Most "Americans", in my observation, don't know the difference
        between censorship and boycotts.



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