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Re: [os2wp] DeScribe Layout Question

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  • Richard James
    ... Exactly my point.... Describe + Acrobat cover me when I m sending docs out that don t need editing. ... Faster definitely, but not always smaller... One of
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 13, 2005
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      On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:30:58 +1100, Jim Boyle wrote:

      >Describe may be "deadware" - but I find it extremely powerful and ever
      >so much easier to use than Word, which I tolerate only for documents
      >that must be shared in source form.

      Exactly my point.... Describe + Acrobat cover me when I'm sending docs
      out that don't need editing.

      > Describe is always faster than Word 2000 and
      >creates smaller files, which is advantageous.

      Faster definitely, but not always smaller... One of my issues with
      Describe is that it can't handle compressed TIFs... a document I did
      today has several graphs that are 700k as compressed tifs, and 5megs+
      uncompressed.... as a result the file is rather bloated.

      >The handling of pictures is far better than Word.

      Describe certainly handles image positioning way better than word, but
      does not correctly size images (TIFF) in frames which is a significant
      pain to me.

      >* (monocolour text suits my laser printing, and I don't often need
      >curved text or text edges)

      Richard James,
      From an Island in the Pacific,
      Victoria, BC
    • Hakan
      Using DeScribe, I d like to lay out a (long) document similar to what you find in textbooks, i.e., the text flowing from page to page occupying the right-most
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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        Using DeScribe, I'd like to lay out a (long) document similar to what
        you find in textbooks, i.e., the text flowing from page to page
        occupying the right-most 3/4 of each page and with section headings or
        comments in the left 1/4.

        My initial attempt made use of a 2-column table where the regular text
        flowed in the right column with each section occupying one table cell.
        Section headings and comments were of course in the corresponding cell
        on the left. Works nicely as the positions of section
        headings/comments are readjusted as text is added or deleted.

        The problem however, is that if a cell does not fit in its entirety on
        the remainder of the page, the entire cell is moved to the next page --
        this is not what I need and not how you find text layed out in a text
        book. (There is also an unrelated bug in DeScribe where if a cell
        needs more than one page, it messes up the remainder of the second page
        and some text is not visible.)

        Another approach would be to use separate frames where the text flows
        in one frame and separate frames for each section heading/comment are
        added/deleted as needed. Avoids the problem above but is more
        complicated -- not only does it create a need for many frames but I
        also have to make sure the positions of these small section
        heading/comment frames are readjusted as regular text is added or
        deleted. Yes, I do think I have seen somewhere that you can "link"
        frames to text but this seems like an overly complicated approach.

        Now, fellow readers, are there any other (better) approaches?

        TIA.
      • Richard James
        ... Not a good plan.... ... Make the main text frame Auto Flow that gives you only one frame for the text. Either do as you state for the headers (link the
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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          On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:56:17 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:

          >Using DeScribe, I'd like to lay out a (long) document similar to what
          >you find in textbooks, i.e., the text flowing from page to page
          >occupying the right-most 3/4 of each page and with section headings or
          >comments in the left 1/4.
          >
          >My initial attempt made use of a 2-column table where the regular text

          Not a good plan....

          >Another approach would be to use separate frames where the text flows
          >in one frame and separate frames for each section heading/comment are
          >added/deleted as needed. Avoids the problem above but is more
          >complicated -- not only does it create a need for many frames but I
          >also have to make sure the positions of these small section
          >heading/comment frames are readjusted as regular text is added or
          >deleted. Yes, I do think I have seen somewhere that you can "link"
          >frames to text but this seems like an overly complicated approach.

          Make the main text frame "Auto Flow" that gives you only one frame for
          the text.

          Either do as you state for the headers (link the frames to the text),
          or, just use one frame and position the text manually using blank lines
          and page breaks... painful but it works. If you use different sized
          fonts/leading you can adjust the leading in the headers col to match
          the text col to keep things lined up.

          An alternative approach is to use styles.... and just one (text)
          frame....

          Set up the text style with an indent (say 2"), and make all other
          styles in the right "column" dependent on it (child style). Set up a
          top level header style with your left margin indent (within the frame)
          and make all headings as child styles of that one.... then just use the
          styles.

          It's more elegant.

          I use the latter, reserving extra frames for images or footers that
          repeat on each page (ie template frames).


          Richard James, P. Eng., PTOE,
          Richard James & Associates,
          Victoria BC,

          E-Mail: raj@... Web: www.rjassociates.ca

          You may need version 6 or 7 of Acrobat Reader to view any attached PDF files, updates may be obtained from www.adobe.com (free).
        • felmon john davis
          ... may I interject a question? there are these publisher programs like Maul and Scribus. are they for this purpose? I have only clicked around in Scribus
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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            On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Richard James wrote:

            > On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:56:17 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:
            >
            > >Using DeScribe, I'd like to lay out a (long) document similar to what
            > >you find in textbooks, i.e., the text flowing from page to page
            > >occupying the right-most 3/4 of each page and with section headings or
            > >comments in the left 1/4.
            > >
            > >My initial attempt made use of a 2-column table where the regular text

            may I interject a question? there are these 'publisher' programs like
            Maul and Scribus. are they for this purpose?

            I have only clicked around in Scribus (which I just reinstalled now)
            and I clicked around in a much earlier version of Maul. for a project
            I have to do annually - a small book -, this kind of software seemed
            appropriate. am I right? or are they for a different purpose?

            Felmon

            --
            Majority, n.:
            That quality that distinguishes a crime from a law.
          • Hakan
            ... Yes of course. ... Are you suggesting a 2-column layout? You are talking about headers col and text col. ... I am not aware that you can have text
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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              On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:06:03 -0800, Richard James wrote:

              >On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:56:17 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:
              >
              >>Using DeScribe, I'd like to lay out a (long) document similar to what
              >>you find in textbooks, i.e., the text flowing from page to page
              >>occupying the right-most 3/4 of each page and with section headings or
              >>comments in the left 1/4.
              >>
              >>My initial attempt made use of a 2-column table where the regular text
              >
              >Not a good plan....
              >
              >>Another approach would be to use separate frames where the text flows
              >>in one frame and separate frames for each section heading/comment are
              >>added/deleted as needed. Avoids the problem above but is more
              >>complicated -- not only does it create a need for many frames but I
              >>also have to make sure the positions of these small section
              >>heading/comment frames are readjusted as regular text is added or
              >>deleted. Yes, I do think I have seen somewhere that you can "link"
              >>frames to text but this seems like an overly complicated approach.
              >
              >Make the main text frame "Auto Flow" that gives you only one frame for
              >the text.

              Yes of course.

              >Either do as you state for the headers (link the frames to the text),
              >or, just use one frame and position the text manually using blank lines
              >and page breaks... painful but it works. If you use different sized
              >fonts/leading you can adjust the leading in the headers col to match
              >the text col to keep things lined up.

              Are you suggesting a 2-column layout? You are talking about "headers
              col" and "text col."

              >An alternative approach is to use styles.... and just one (text)
              >frame....
              >
              >Set up the text style with an indent (say 2"), and make all other
              >styles in the right "column" dependent on it (child style). Set up a
              >top level header style with your left margin indent (within the frame)
              >and make all headings as child styles of that one.... then just use the
              >styles.

              I am not aware that you can have text using two different styles like
              this on the same row? (Yes, you can mix styles in the same text
              paragraph but seems different.)

              >It's more elegant.
              >
              >I use the latter, reserving extra frames for images or footers that
              >repeat on each page (ie template frames).

              Yes, absolutely.

              >Richard James, P. Eng., PTOE,
            • Kenn Yuill
              Felmon, ... Although the name Scribus seems familiar, a search of Hobbes gave no hits but Google tells me it is a DTP program for Linux,
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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                Felmon,

                felmon john davis wrote as follows on 17/12/05 17:00:

                > I have only clicked around in Scribus (which I just reinstalled now)


                Although the name 'Scribus' seems familiar, a search of Hobbes gave
                no hits but Google tells me it is a "DTP" program for Linux,
                <http://www.scribus.org.uk/>. In spite of the fact that Maul should
                meet my future publishing needs, do you know if any port of Scribus or
                similar programs to OS/2 is being or has been made?


                --
                Aloha,
                Kenn
                _____________________________________________________________________
                Always act as if life is a joyous journey. - Kenn Yuill
                __________ A Quote for Today __________
                The bird of paradise alights only on the hand that does not grasp.
                - John Berry
                _____________________________________________________________________
                * TagZilla 0.057 * <http://tagzilla.mozdev.org>
              • felmon john davis
                ... sorry, those are the only ones I ve heard of in the non-Windows world - which means naught since I haven t searched. I was at the Scribus website today but
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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                  On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Kenn Yuill wrote:

                  > Felmon,
                  >
                  > felmon john davis wrote as follows on 17/12/05 17:00:
                  >
                  > > I have only clicked around in Scribus (which I just reinstalled now)
                  >
                  >
                  > Although the name 'Scribus' seems familiar, a search of Hobbes gave
                  > no hits but Google tells me it is a "DTP" program for Linux,
                  > <http://www.scribus.org.uk/>. In spite of the fact that Maul should
                  > meet my future publishing needs, do you know if any port of Scribus or
                  > similar programs to OS/2 is being or has been made?

                  sorry, those are the only ones I've heard of in the non-Windows world
                  - which means naught since I haven't searched. I was at the Scribus
                  website today but didn't notice anything about ports.

                  have you started tackling Maul?

                  Felmon
                • Kenn Yuill
                  ... I didn t see any mention of ports there as well, but didn t do a search. Anyway, thanks for mentioning Scribus, as I may give it a look-see when I get
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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                    felmon john davis wrote as follows on 17/12/05 20:15:

                    >On Sat, 17 Dec 2005, Kenn Yuill wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>> Felmon,
                    >>>
                    >>> felmon john davis wrote as follows on 17/12/05 17:00:
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>> > I have only clicked around in Scribus (which I just reinstalled now)
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Although the name 'Scribus' seems familiar, a search of Hobbes gave
                    >>> no hits but Google tells me it is a "DTP" program for Linux,
                    >>> <http://www.scribus.org.uk/>. In spite of the fact that Maul should
                    >>> meet my future publishing needs, do you know if any port of Scribus or
                    >>> similar programs to OS/2 is being or has been made?
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >sorry, those are the only ones I've heard of in the non-Windows world
                    >- which means naught since I haven't searched. I was at the Scribus
                    >website today but didn't notice anything about ports.
                    >
                    >

                    I didn't see any mention of ports there as well, but didn't do a
                    search. Anyway, thanks for mentioning Scribus, as I may give it a
                    'look-see' when I get either Ubuntu &/or Xandros set up over the
                    Christmas Season.

                    >have you started tackling Maul?
                    >

                    No yet, but was hoping you had done so and could offer some insight
                    on the learning curve. My intent is to start a small project over the
                    winter to compile some old notes and reports on some research &
                    development work from a bygone era.
                    I haven't used a publishing program since the days of DRDOS,
                    "Pagemaker" (Aldus?) or "Ventura Publisher" and later with a brief foray
                    into one called "Serif Publisher", IIRC, all of which were licensed by
                    my employer at the time.

                    --
                    Aloha,
                    Kenn
                    _____________________________________________________________________
                    Always act as if life is a joyous journey. - Kenn Yuill
                    __________ A Quote for Today __________
                    Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
                    - Walt Kelly (Author of Pogo)
                    _____________________________________________________________________
                    * TagZilla 0.057 * <http://tagzilla.mozdev.org>
                  • Richard James
                    ... OK ... That is what I understood you wanted to do. If the headers extend into the text portion, it s easier with styles... actually, it s just easier
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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                      On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:28:35 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:

                      >>Make the main text frame "Auto Flow" that gives you only one frame for
                      >>the text.
                      >
                      >Yes of course.

                      OK

                      >Are you suggesting a 2-column layout? You are talking about "headers
                      >col" and "text col."

                      That is what I understood you wanted to do. If the headers extend into
                      the "text" portion, it's easier with styles... actually, it's just
                      easier with styles...

                      >>An alternative approach is to use styles.... and just one (text)
                      >>frame....

                      >I am not aware that you can have text using two different styles like
                      >this on the same row? (Yes, you can mix styles in the same text
                      >paragraph but seems different.)

                      Yes, you can but the first style in the line will determining the
                      position of the whole row.

                      If you are happy with Describe, stick with it and use styles.

                      I use a wide left text margin in a lot of reports, with headers
                      starting at the left margin. The only issue I can see from your
                      comments is that my headers are always on a separate line.

                      header line.....

                      text lines.......
                      more text.....



                      Richard James, P. Eng., PTOE,
                      Richard James & Associates,
                      Victoria BC,

                      E-Mail: raj@... Web: www.rjassociates.ca

                      You may need version 6 or 7 of Acrobat Reader to view any attached PDF files, updates may be obtained from www.adobe.com (free).
                    • Hakan
                      ... Yes that works fine but unfortunately that is not the textbook layout I am looking for. I did a quick check on how Word for Windows 6.0 handles this and
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 17, 2005
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                        On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:52:38 -0800, Richard James wrote:

                        >On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:28:35 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:
                        >
                        >>>Make the main text frame "Auto Flow" that gives you only one frame for
                        >>>the text.
                        >>
                        >>Yes of course.
                        >
                        >OK
                        >
                        >>Are you suggesting a 2-column layout? You are talking about "headers
                        >>col" and "text col."
                        >
                        >That is what I understood you wanted to do. If the headers extend into
                        >the "text" portion, it's easier with styles... actually, it's just
                        >easier with styles...
                        >
                        >>>An alternative approach is to use styles.... and just one (text)
                        >>>frame....
                        >
                        >>I am not aware that you can have text using two different styles like
                        >>this on the same row? (Yes, you can mix styles in the same text
                        >>paragraph but seems different.)
                        >
                        >Yes, you can but the first style in the line will determining the
                        >position of the whole row.
                        >
                        >If you are happy with Describe, stick with it and use styles.
                        >
                        >I use a wide left text margin in a lot of reports, with headers
                        >starting at the left margin. The only issue I can see from your
                        >comments is that my headers are always on a separate line.
                        >
                        >header line.....
                        >
                        > text lines.......
                        > more text.....

                        Yes that works fine but unfortunately that is not the "textbook" layout
                        I am looking for. I did a quick check on how Word for Windows 6.0
                        handles this and the table layout works as I wanted to it do, i.e.,
                        table cells can span a page boundary. The table layout would therefore
                        be the preferred way of doing this in WfW. I do, however, greatly
                        prefer to use DeScribe so any other approaches would be most welcome.

                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Richard James, P. Eng., PTOE,
                        >Richard James & Associates,
                        >Victoria BC,
                        >
                        >E-Mail: raj@... Web: www.rjassociates.ca
                        >
                        >You may need version 6 or 7 of Acrobat Reader to view any attached PDF files, updates may be obtained from www.adobe.com (free).
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Jim Boyle
                        The best, and simplest, way I can see to satisfy the original request is to establish another frame on every page to carry the chapter headings. So, - the way
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                          The best, and simplest, way I can see to satisfy the original request is to establish another frame on every page to carry the chapter headings.

                          So, - the way I created a sample to test this out was:
                          1. Drag the left boundary of the "Text" frame of my standard layout across about 5cm to the right of its normal position;
                          2. Use Right Mouse Button inside the "Text" frame and select "Frame Manager"
                          3. My "Text"  frame is already selected, so I chose "Duplicate" to copy it;
                          4. Now, I selected "Change" within the Frame Manager menu - the new frame was already selected;
                          • -  I changed the name of the new frame to something like "Left-Heading";
                          • -  I now had a couple of options
                            • If I made the new frame a Template, the heading I put on any page will repeat on all subsequent pages until I chose >Page >>Modify Template     or
                            • If I left the frame as a normal text frame, with automatic flow, then I needed to end the frame with an end-of-page (Alt-Shift-S) on every page.
                          My own opinion is that Describe is an extremely powerful word processor that gives extraordinary control to the user - and is far more intuitive than Word - and infinitely more reliable, and far easier for a beginner to learn.  It has a few limitations, but they are really minimal.
                          
                          
                        • Richard James
                          ... If you want blocks of text in the left column (sidebars) with text in the right col on the same line, then styles wont do it. You will either have to use
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                            On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:01:15 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:

                            >>I use a wide left text margin in a lot of reports, with headers
                            >>starting at the left margin. The only issue I can see from your
                            >>comments is that my headers are always on a separate line.
                            >>
                            >>header line.....
                            >>
                            >> text lines.......
                            >> more text.....
                            >
                            >Yes that works fine but unfortunately that is not the "textbook" layout
                            >I am looking for.

                            If you want blocks of text in the left column (sidebars) with text in
                            the right col on the same line, then styles wont do it. You will either
                            have to use tables and manually fix the overflow problem, or use
                            frames. Frames would likely work better for you.

                            > I did a quick check on how Word for Windows 6.0
                            >handles this and the table layout works as I wanted to it do, i.e.,
                            >table cells can span a page boundary.

                            Remember Describe is an "aged" product... there are a lot of features I
                            wish it provided, but it's my daily workhorse for one page letters to
                            100 page reports.

                            >I do, however, greatly
                            >prefer to use DeScribe so any other approaches would be most welcome.

                            I've been using it for about 10 years...

                            If I want a document that requires complex formatting (or is to go to a
                            commercial printer) I use InDesign (grandson of PageMaker).

                            I only use Word under duress, as in when I have to exchange documents
                            with clients in an editable format... and it's a real PITA.



                            Richard James, P. Eng., PTOE,
                            Richard James & Associates,
                            Victoria BC,

                            E-Mail: raj@... Web: www.rjassociates.ca

                            You may need version 6 or 7 of Acrobat Reader to view any attached PDF files, updates may be obtained from www.adobe.com (free).
                          • Hakan
                            I am sorry but I cannot see how your approach solves my layout problem?
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                              I am sorry but I cannot see how your approach solves my layout problem?

                              On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:00:31 +1100, Jim Boyle wrote:

                              >The best, and simplest, way I can see to satisfy the original request is to establish another frame on every page to carry the chapter headings.
                              >
                              >So, - the way I created a sample to test this out was:
                              >Drag the left boundary of the "Text" frame of my standard layout
                              >across about 5cm to the right of its normal position;
                              >Use Right Mouse Button inside the "Text" frame and select "Frame
                              >Manager"
                              >My "Text" frame is already selected, so I chose "Duplicate" to
                              >copy it;
                              >Now, I selected "Change" within the Frame Manager menu - the new
                              >frame was already selected;
                              >- I changed the name of the new frame to something like
                              >"Left-Heading";
                              >- I now had a couple of options
                              >If I made the new frame a Template, the heading I put on any
                              >page will repeat on all subsequent pages until I chose >Page >>Modify Template or
                              >If I left the frame as a normal text frame, with automatic
                              >flow, then I needed to end the frame with an end-of-page (Alt-Shift-S) on every page.
                              >
                              >
                              >My own opinion is that Describe is an extremely powerful word processor that gives extraordinary control to the user - and is far more intuitive than Word - and infinitely more reliable, and far easier for a beginner to learn. It has a few limitations, but they are really minimal.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >SPONSORED LINKS
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                              >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                              >
                              > Visit your group "os2wp" on the web.
                              >
                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > os2wp-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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                            • Hakan
                              ... I think tables would probably be the better of two bad choices. ... Word for Windows 6.0 is an aged product as well. The crucial difference -- in
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:30:48 -0800, Richard James wrote:

                                >On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:01:15 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:
                                >
                                >If you want blocks of text in the left column (sidebars) with text in
                                >the right col on the same line, then styles wont do it. You will either
                                >have to use tables and manually fix the overflow problem, or use
                                >frames. Frames would likely work better for you.

                                I think tables would probably be the better of two bad choices.

                                >> I did a quick check on how Word for Windows 6.0
                                >>handles this and the table layout works as I wanted to it do, i.e.,
                                >>table cells can span a page boundary.
                                >
                                >Remember Describe is an "aged" product... there are a lot of features I
                                >wish it provided, but it's my daily workhorse for one page letters to
                                >100 page reports.

                                Word for Windows 6.0 is an aged product as well. The crucial
                                difference -- in addressing this need -- is that WfW allows table cells
                                to span page boundaries whereas DeScribe does not. Most likely a
                                design choice that the DeScribe team made, a design choice I wish they
                                had made selectable.
                              • Richard James
                                ... You have to pick the one that works best for you.... ... True... I slipped past that.... My version of word is not MS s most recent (word 2000), but it
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                  On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 12:43:42 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:

                                  >On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 09:30:48 -0800, Richard James wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:01:15 -0500 (EST), Hakan wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>If you want blocks of text in the left column (sidebars) with text in
                                  >>the right col on the same line, then styles wont do it. You will either
                                  >>have to use tables and manually fix the overflow problem, or use
                                  >>frames. Frames would likely work better for you.
                                  >
                                  >I think tables would probably be the better of two bad choices.

                                  You have to pick the one that works best for you....

                                  >>> I did a quick check on how Word for Windows 6.0
                                  >>>handles this

                                  >>Remember Describe is an "aged" product...

                                  >Word for Windows 6.0 is an aged product as well.

                                  True... I slipped past that.... My version of word is not MS's most
                                  recent (word 2000), but it works for me....

                                  More to the point, Describe is unfortunately "deadware", it is dead,
                                  it's never going to be revived, updated or anything else (unless the
                                  copyright owner magically "sees the light" and changes his demands...)
                                  and then I doubt any commercial enterprise will want to take on
                                  Billy.... (just my opinion, YMMV)


                                  > The crucial
                                  >difference -- in addressing this need -- is that WfW allows table cells
                                  >to span page boundaries whereas DeScribe does not.

                                  If you want to do it in Describe, then you will have to manually edit
                                  every page where that occurs and split the table/row to make it look
                                  the way you want.

                                  > Most likely a
                                  >design choice that the DeScribe team made, a design choice I wish they
                                  >had made selectable.

                                  I could add another pile of "would have been nice" issues, but there is
                                  no point, see above.

                                  Richard James,
                                  From an Island in the Pacific,
                                  Victoria, BC
                                • John Angelico
                                  ... As a late-comer to this thread, may I suggest that you look at the Template Frames feature in DeScribe for this aspect at least. Headers and Footers in the
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                    On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:00:31 +1100, Jim Boyle wrote:

                                    >The best, and simplest, way I can see to satisfy the original request is to establish another frame on every page to carry the chapter headings.

                                    As a late-comer to this thread, may I suggest that you look at the Template
                                    Frames feature in DeScribe for this aspect at least. Headers and Footers in
                                    the Page menu are one form of this.

                                    If the discussion has already moved on to other software, that's fine, but it
                                    may be useful to others.


                                    Best regards
                                    John Angelico
                                    OS/2 SIG
                                    os2@... or
                                    talldad@...
                                    ___________________

                                    PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
                                    ... OS/2 is dead? Again? Thanks for telling me, I would never have noticed!
                                  • John Angelico
                                    ... And another thing... I recall Esther Schindler on POSSI list reminding us that DeScribe is by design a purely character formatting word processor
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                      On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:52:38 -0800, Richard James wrote:

                                      >
                                      >If you are happy with Describe, stick with it and use styles.

                                      And another thing... <g>

                                      I recall Esther Schindler on POSSI list reminding us that DeScribe is by
                                      design a purely character formatting word processor (simpler than say MS-Word
                                      which has char, par and page formatting, but something to get used to) , so
                                      using styles is the *only* effective way to control and manage layout within
                                      frames.

                                      It is also frame-based hence the discussion here on the use of frames to
                                      manage the layout on the page.


                                      Best regards
                                      John Angelico
                                      OS/2 SIG
                                      os2@... or
                                      talldad@...
                                      ___________________

                                      PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
                                      ... Definitions #747: Diplomacy: the art of letting someone else get your way.
                                    • Hakan
                                      Tamplate frames do not solve or address my problem at all.
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                        Tamplate frames do not solve or address my problem at all.

                                        On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:01:51 +1100 (AEDT), John Angelico wrote:

                                        >On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:00:31 +1100, Jim Boyle wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>The best, and simplest, way I can see to satisfy the original request is to establish another frame on every page to carry the chapter headings.
                                        >
                                        >As a late-comer to this thread, may I suggest that you look at the Template
                                        >Frames feature in DeScribe for this aspect at least. Headers and Footers in
                                        >the Page menu are one form of this.
                                        >
                                        >If the discussion has already moved on to other software, that's fine, but it
                                        >may be useful to others.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Best regards
                                        >John Angelico
                                        >OS/2 SIG
                                        >os2@... or
                                        >talldad@...
                                        >___________________
                                        >
                                        >PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
                                        >... OS/2 is dead? Again? Thanks for telling me, I would never have noticed!
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Jim Boyle
                                        OK I acknowledge that my suggested solution may not do exactly what you want - it treats the headings and the text as separate frames and would require
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 18, 2005
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                                          OK I acknowledge that my suggested solution may not do exactly what
                                          you want - it treats the headings and the text as separate frames and
                                          would require manual steps to keep them aligned as you alter text. On
                                          further thought ....

                                          SUGGESTION 2:

                                          Define a heading style:
                                          e.g. HEAD1 - all indents zero
                                          clearance before paragraph 15 pt; after paragraph zero
                                          select the tabs and clear all tabs, then insert a single tab
                                          at 4cm


                                          Define your text style (NOT as a child of the HEAD1 style):
                                          TEXT - left indents as follows
                                          for text zero; first line of paragraph 4cm; other
                                          lines 4cm.
                                          - paragraph clearance before zero, after 3pt.

                                          Now you enter a heading using the Head1 style, terminating the heading
                                          with a tab (that moves you to the 4cm tab point).
                                          Then, switch to Text style and type away, putting in paragraphs as needed.

                                          You can then begin another heading in the same way - using a tab to
                                          reposition yourself, then switching to the text style.

                                          Note: The paragraph clearances are set opposite each other (Head1 has a
                                          "before" clearance, Text has an "after" clearance)

                                          =================================

                                          Describe may be "deadware" - but I find it extremely powerful and ever
                                          so much easier to use than Word, which I tolerate only for documents
                                          that must be shared in source form. Word (windoze version) plus Acrobat
                                          to create PDFs, does almost all my WP and publishing work. Certainly
                                          Pagemaker is more powerful, but the limitations of Describe* are
                                          acceptable to me.
                                          are acceptable to me. Describe is always faster than Word 2000 and
                                          creates smaller files, which is advantageous. The drawing tool is
                                          surprisingly useful too - I've used it to draft engineering sketches.
                                          The handling of pictures is far better than Word.

                                          * (monocolour text suits my laser printing, and I don't often need
                                          curved text or text edges)
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