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[Orthognathic Surgery Support ] Re: [Orthognathic Surgery Support ] Consult fee -- that's a tough one

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  • keppers79
    Hi Karen, I think you re right. I probably didn t smile at him much (or anybody for that matter) during the months I wore the appliance full time. And you re
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 1, 2011
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      Hi Karen,

      I think you're right. I probably didn't smile at him much (or anybody for that matter) during the months I wore the appliance full time. And you're right, most didn't say bad things about the splint, (even when I stumbled over my words really badly)...except one horrifying experience. I was at Walmart trying to look at something. And this little girl with her mom pointed at my mouth. I tried to be polite and say something about me having to wear this thing. Then, she said, "You have bad teeth!" (Of course, she couldn't even see my teeth; the splint is wide enough that mostly all you see is plastic when I wear it. I even had people ask if I got the braces off because they could no longer see them at all.) Anyways, I kind of wondered if that sentiment was what everyone was thinking and the little girl was the only one naive enough to voice what she was thinking.

      But you had it worst off with a more public role. I studied to be a teacher, so I can understand (I couldn't make it since I was too much of an introvert so I ended up going a different direction).

      Your advice was good. My surgeon actually was better than my ortho. in coaching me about the device...saying that I actually needed to leave my mouth hanging open to let my muscles rest and also not to care what people think about it. I don't know, I'm glad for now the ortho. is advising not to wear it full time anymore...for a breather.

      Anyways, thanks for the encouragement. I've been discouraged, and maybe you're right that it is wearing off on my ortho. as well.

      KC

      --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, Karen K <idiotsparkle@...> wrote:
      >
      > KC,
      >
      > What will make it better for you is if you can see it from the perspective that it is your right and privilege to get this surgery and treatment. And that wearing a big huge appliance is not him making or forcing you to do something bad against your better judgement but to help you get to your goal. He is your helper and your guide to that place. I teach and had to also wear a huge ugly appliance for well over six months all day and at first i was sad that i would look so weird and talk more oddly than before in front of people who were supposed to look up to me, respect me, and understand my speech clearly. I was afraid they would not understand what i was saying because my speech eas more muffled with the appliance and i was afraid they would publicly or in private ridicule me and my odd looks. None of that happened. Well, i don't know what they did privately but NONE of my fears were a reality. I was fine and so were they. Nothing changed even though i had a ginormous plastic thing in my mouth that made it hard for me to swallow or keep my mouth closed.
      > Chin up. Smile. You are on your way to your goal. You have an intelligent and skilled helper to get you there. You have a husband who is standing by your side. Do not let pettiness or the feeling of being a victim fool you. You are not a victim but someone who is trying to change your life and make it better. You had the smarts and power to find able people. You had the smarts and capability to find and make money to make it happen. Smile and smile to your doctor when you next see him. Have you ever smiled to him genuinely and tried to make him feel comfortable and trusted? He might be needing that from you too. Take a deep breath and trust.
      >
      > All the best,
      > Karen
      >
      >
      > On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:14 AM, "keppers79" <kep-at-home@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Yes, you're right about it being a team effort. Maybe, if I can get up the nerve. Although, I'm afraid about what he'll say. He already had me wearing the most ugly, huge appliance...to WORK! Well, he didn't force me, but said "wear it as much as possible" which basically meant wearing it to work. That was quite a sacrifice on my part to comply. Although he has finally said I can start wearing the appliance part time (that means I can possibly skip wearing it to work), I'm afraid what he might ask of me next!
      > >
      > > KC
      > >
      > > --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, Karen K <idiotsparkle@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > This is really good advice, Cammie. I think the way you worded the sentences on how KC should approach her doctor is quite worth a try and maybe just what he needs to hear. He is the doc but in a sense this is a team effort between the doc and patient too. KC, why not try that if you can?
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Annette Muller
      KC, Are you going through an OBI dentist? If so I have some suggestions as to how to make your appliance at least visibly more attractive. Which I know for me
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 2, 2011
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        KC,

        Are you going through an OBI dentist? If so I have some suggestions as to how to make your appliance at least visibly more attractive. Which I know for me was so important during the day. Let me know.

         
        I see the God in you,
        Annette  

        “Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”
         I Corinthians 3:16

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • keppers79
        No, the Ortho. does the splint treatment himself. KC
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 2, 2011
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          No, the Ortho. does the splint treatment himself.

          KC

          --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, Annette Muller <anlynne2004@...> wrote:
          >
          > KC,
          >
          > Are you going through an OBI dentist? If so I have some suggestions as to how to make your appliance at least visibly more attractive. Which I know for me was so important during the day. Let me know.
          >
          >  
          > I see the God in you,
          > Annette  
          >
          > “Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”
          >  I Corinthians 3:16
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • ceast36532
          Are things at all better for you, I hope? Maybe, if you feel more comfortable with him, you could talk with the surgeon? And I hope your ortho is as excellent
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 7, 2011
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            Are things at all better for you, I hope?

            Maybe, if you feel more comfortable with him, you could talk with the surgeon?

            And I hope your ortho is as excellent as he believes he is. Still, I do believe that if (heavens forfend) he keeled over tomorrow, you could find someone else to help with your treatment. There are other surgeons who take on "difficult" cases in most parts of the world, and even those who don't, know of others who do. The money part is often the unsolvable difficulty of the matter, I think.

            Odd thing for me -- I have had experience with surgeons and other docs who are, I believe, the best around here, and other specialists have told me the same about them. I count myself unreasonably fortunate to have had their skills and talents. But generally, the ones who are the very best have had no reluctance to share the evidence and ask for the opinions of colleagues. I like it very much when an expert in any field, ranging from oral surgery to mechanical engineering or automotive repair or plumbing says, "I want to check this out with my colleague." That's never been a mistake, in my experience -- and heaven knows, I need every 12-year-old on the block when it comes to making a computer work! (Time for a treat on me at the local pizza parlor, I reckon.)

            Anyhow, I have had my own bouts with introversion. I'll spare you details, but was a bookish, not slim nor athletic only child who grew up downtown, with few young friends as pals.

            Thank heavens most of my dental problems were fixed early on, I think, by patient docs, although they screwed up my later years (as did most of their colleagues, when they had to wait for the science to catch up). I went every two or three weeks as a kid, strangely enough! And was impatient when, in my 50s, there was often a month or more between appointments.

            Is your spouse the sort who might accompany you to the next appointment unauthorized and unbidden? I can't imagine the doc or the assistants trying to block him/her out if there's an eagerness on the spouse's part to see what's going on... I dunno how to get away from the tech, though. But at worst, the tech might try to be a buffer, and will probably not be perceived by anybody as a colleague of status equal to the ortho, in the doc's presence.

            I think I'd be inclined just to swallow my difficulties, and launch into the whole thing. (I'd also be inclined to try to temper the length -- knowing me, I could go on for three hours with it!) I'd avoid saying "I think you don't like me," but could advance: "I loathe this splint. It hurts, makes my speech and eating hard and is embarrassing. Please tell me why it must be that way, or why I need to use it so much, and what and when you think it might accomplish."

            And I hate to tell you, but as you approach your later years, you're probably likely to find yourself in labs and docs' offices (not all of them for dental matters) more and more frequently. Just try to keep the insurance paid up to cover it! You don't want to know my views on that...

            Best wishes,

            Cammie

            --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, "keppers79" <kep-at-home@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Cammie,
            >
            > I think you've hit some good points. My ortho. is definitely frustrated. One recent session, he started saying he wouldn't even know who to refer me to (I didn't ask for a referral to someone else, but I think he was just racking his brain out loud on how to fix me). He mentioned someone in another part of the country and a couple of hours away, but then seemed hesitant about even those people (glad he's hesitant, as I don't have the money to go traversing the country). He said the problem is people send the difficult cases to ME so who would I send you to? My surgeon still seems confident in him working on me, but thinks this will take some time. So yes, as you said this might just take some time.
            >
            > Unfortunately, at first he seemed very nice, but it's just with the months, his attitude has changed.
            >
            > Yes, talking to him might help. Unfortunately, I am very introverted and shy and being able to bring his attitude change out in the open is near impossible. Actually, that's why I wanted the meeting to have my spouse there to support me to actually say something, and not have an audience of the technician standing there as well as all the other distractions around in a usual appointment.
            >
            > In fact, this has been rather difficult for an introvert. Between the surgeon, the physical therapist, the orthodontist, etc. seeing me on a rather basis, and poking around in my personal space (like my mouth) at least once a week or sometimes more between all of them...it's a lot more focused attention than I am used to. I don't think I've ever gone to the "doctor" so much in my life. When I had braces when I was younger, sometimes months would go between visits (whereas for months, I've been seeing my ortho. every 2-3 weeks). This is definitely an experience that it's hard for others to understand. Although family and friends are supportive, it's nice to have this group since you guys have been through similar experiences in the past.
            >
            > KC
          • ceast36532
            Methinks there is a bunch of wisdom in these thoughts, too... With respect to children s perceptions: I am reminded of the day I was wearing a tent-ish, bright
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 7, 2011
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              Methinks there is a bunch of wisdom in these thoughts, too...

              With respect to children's perceptions: I am reminded of the day I was wearing a tent-ish, bright pink dress/float I loved, and met a friend I adored, with a couple of her children who weren't more than 4 at the time.

              "Mama, that lady's gonna have a baby!" said one, whose very young younger sister was handy.

              Mama, embarrassed, said no. That mama had been pregnant, but that didn't mean the other lady (me) was.

              She shuffled the kids into her SUV; we exchanged greetings, and that was it. But she was as pink as my pink float -- and probably so was I! (I was, at that point, a widow of some years, neither married nor seeing any gentlemen.)

              Heaven knows, and heaven sends us a variety of odd things to cope with. Not all are either pleasant or pretty, but what most people who voice anything, even when they are age 4 and not entitled to explanations, will find their curiosity satisfied with simple explanations. And they might find their horizons expanded by the notion that one does not have "bad teeth," but rather a mouth that is troubled, but getting better, day by day, by way of whatever gadget.


              Other possible explanations: "I had a weird encounter with a moose."
              For adults: "My spouse and I had a really exotic sexual experience." (Blush, blush.)

              Old ones, but good ones. You owe no explanations, but you can have fun if you want!

              Cammie



              > > KC,
              > >
              > > What will make it better for you is if you can see it from the perspective that it is your right and privilege to get this surgery and treatment. And that wearing a big huge appliance is not him making or forcing you to do something bad against your better judgement but to help you get to your goal. He is your helper and your guide to that place. I teach and had to also wear a huge ugly appliance for well over six months all day and at first i was sad that i would look so weird and talk more oddly than before in front of people who were supposed to look up to me, respect me, and understand my speech clearly. I was afraid they would not understand what i was saying because my speech eas more muffled with the appliance and i was afraid they would publicly or in private ridicule me and my odd looks. None of that happened. Well, i don't know what they did privately but NONE of my fears were a reality. I was fine and so were they. Nothing changed even though i had a ginormous plastic thing in my mouth that made it hard for me to swallow or keep my mouth closed.
              > > Chin up. Smile. You are on your way to your goal. You have an intelligent and skilled helper to get you there. You have a husband who is standing by your side. Do not let pettiness or the feeling of being a victim fool you. You are not a victim but someone who is trying to change your life and make it better. You had the smarts and power to find able people. You had the smarts and capability to find and make money to make it happen. Smile and smile to your doctor when you next see him. Have you ever smiled to him genuinely and tried to make him feel comfortable and trusted? He might be needing that from you too. Take a deep breath and trust.
              > >
              > > All the best,
              > > Karen
            • keppers79
              Hi Cammie, I think I feel better now that I talked about it with the group; doesn t it always help to talk about things bothering you? :) I don t know if
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 8, 2011
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                Hi Cammie,

                I think I feel better now that I talked about it with the group; doesn't it always help to talk about things bothering you? :) I don't know if there was really any difference, but during my appointment on Monday, I tried to be more upbeat as Karen suggested. Maybe it was coincidence or my imagination, but the ortho. seemed to have a better attitude, too.

                However...something really worried me. The ortho. said again that we need to have the surgery very soon. What bothered me is this is the second time he has said this. I would love to get this over as soon as possible, as my bite is so crazy that I have been unable to chew anything since late Fall. A no chew diet is okay recovering from surgery but for months and months now...it is getting really old. What bothers me, though, is that in between him saying this twice, I went to see my surgeon, and he said, he wants to take this very slow, and said he wants me to wear my splint for a long time...maybe years...in preparation. So there is obviously a disagreement on the timeframe. I didn't manage to be upfront about the whole attitude thing, but I did confront him about that issue saying that I was pretty sure the surgeon was not on the same page with having the surgery soon. He heard me and said he would have a talk with him. He said his reasons for hurrying up the surgery, and I believe him, but in the back of my mind, I wonder if he doesn't have my best interest in mind, and just wants to get rid of me?! At any rate, I think the surgeon is an ethical man and will not agree to doing the surgery unless he feels it will have a good outcome. Already, he has canceled the surgery once (already scheduled with the hospital even) because he felt I wasn't ready yet.

                It would be possible (but difficult) for my spouse to accompany me to an appointment. I guess we can do it as a last resort. But the room is a communal type room, so I wouldn't be comfortable really discussing the issue even if my spouse was there, unless we had a private meeting in another room. Anyways...we'll see how things continue to go...

                Thanks for asking how I was doing...

                KC

                --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, "ceast36532" <ceast36532@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are things at all better for you, I hope?
                >
                > Maybe, if you feel more comfortable with him, you could talk with the surgeon?
                >
                > And I hope your ortho is as excellent as he believes he is. Still, I do believe that if (heavens forfend) he keeled over tomorrow, you could find someone else to help with your treatment. There are other surgeons who take on "difficult" cases in most parts of the world, and even those who don't, know of others who do. The money part is often the unsolvable difficulty of the matter, I think.
                >
                > Odd thing for me -- I have had experience with surgeons and other docs who are, I believe, the best around here, and other specialists have told me the same about them. I count myself unreasonably fortunate to have had their skills and talents. But generally, the ones who are the very best have had no reluctance to share the evidence and ask for the opinions of colleagues. I like it very much when an expert in any field, ranging from oral surgery to mechanical engineering or automotive repair or plumbing says, "I want to check this out with my colleague." That's never been a mistake, in my experience -- and heaven knows, I need every 12-year-old on the block when it comes to making a computer work! (Time for a treat on me at the local pizza parlor, I reckon.)
                >
                > Anyhow, I have had my own bouts with introversion. I'll spare you details, but was a bookish, not slim nor athletic only child who grew up downtown, with few young friends as pals.
                >
                > Thank heavens most of my dental problems were fixed early on, I think, by patient docs, although they screwed up my later years (as did most of their colleagues, when they had to wait for the science to catch up). I went every two or three weeks as a kid, strangely enough! And was impatient when, in my 50s, there was often a month or more between appointments.
                >
                > Is your spouse the sort who might accompany you to the next appointment unauthorized and unbidden? I can't imagine the doc or the assistants trying to block him/her out if there's an eagerness on the spouse's part to see what's going on... I dunno how to get away from the tech, though. But at worst, the tech might try to be a buffer, and will probably not be perceived by anybody as a colleague of status equal to the ortho, in the doc's presence.
                >
                > I think I'd be inclined just to swallow my difficulties, and launch into the whole thing. (I'd also be inclined to try to temper the length -- knowing me, I could go on for three hours with it!) I'd avoid saying "I think you don't like me," but could advance: "I loathe this splint. It hurts, makes my speech and eating hard and is embarrassing. Please tell me why it must be that way, or why I need to use it so much, and what and when you think it might accomplish."
                >
                > And I hate to tell you, but as you approach your later years, you're probably likely to find yourself in labs and docs' offices (not all of them for dental matters) more and more frequently. Just try to keep the insurance paid up to cover it! You don't want to know my views on that...
                >
                > Best wishes,
                >
                > Cammie
                >
                > --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, "keppers79" <kep-at-home@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Cammie,
                > >
                > > I think you've hit some good points. My ortho. is definitely frustrated. One recent session, he started saying he wouldn't even know who to refer me to (I didn't ask for a referral to someone else, but I think he was just racking his brain out loud on how to fix me). He mentioned someone in another part of the country and a couple of hours away, but then seemed hesitant about even those people (glad he's hesitant, as I don't have the money to go traversing the country). He said the problem is people send the difficult cases to ME so who would I send you to? My surgeon still seems confident in him working on me, but thinks this will take some time. So yes, as you said this might just take some time.
                > >
                > > Unfortunately, at first he seemed very nice, but it's just with the months, his attitude has changed.
                > >
                > > Yes, talking to him might help. Unfortunately, I am very introverted and shy and being able to bring his attitude change out in the open is near impossible. Actually, that's why I wanted the meeting to have my spouse there to support me to actually say something, and not have an audience of the technician standing there as well as all the other distractions around in a usual appointment.
                > >
                > > In fact, this has been rather difficult for an introvert. Between the surgeon, the physical therapist, the orthodontist, etc. seeing me on a rather basis, and poking around in my personal space (like my mouth) at least once a week or sometimes more between all of them...it's a lot more focused attention than I am used to. I don't think I've ever gone to the "doctor" so much in my life. When I had braces when I was younger, sometimes months would go between visits (whereas for months, I've been seeing my ortho. every 2-3 weeks). This is definitely an experience that it's hard for others to understand. Although family and friends are supportive, it's nice to have this group since you guys have been through similar experiences in the past.
                > >
                > > KC
                >
              • keppers79
                Cammie, LOL...thanks for sharing that story. I guess it happens to all of us at one point or another. You re right. Maybe people just need explanations
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 8, 2011
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                  Cammie,

                  LOL...thanks for sharing that story. I guess it happens to all of us at one point or another.

                  You're right. Maybe people just need explanations sometimes. Actually, I think that was what the mother said...something along the lines of that I was working on my teeth to make them prettier. I guess the hardest, though, is when people don't say anything, and you wonder what they are thinking.

                  I guess a few people have tried to say nice things as well, though. My Granny - in - law who is the sweetest tried to tell me she really didn't think it looked that bad. And a friend said, even though she almost didn't want to say anything because it might come across as falsely trying to cheer me up, she thought I really looked glowingly healthy despite the splint. (That was actually a nice comment, since I have been trying really hard to eat healthy and not loose weight despite the no chew diet). My spouse said it all, when he said, people are always looking at you and admiring and disliking something about your appearance, splint or no splint, and you can't do nothing about it.

                  I guess since the ortho. is putting the splint use back in my hands, I feel a little better about it.... He basically said wear it if it feels good, don't wear it when it doesn't. So it puts it back on me, monitoring for what makes me feel the best. (Although, that can be confusing and a little pressure on me, though. A little tempting to not wear it when it is convenient, too). It's just that wearing it full time for months, he is thinking it might no longer be helpful for me to wear it full time and might actually be causing secondary muscle problems from the size of the splint (my physical therapist said the size could definitely be causing muscle problems). I really feel, too, that he's made it as small as possible. There's not much smaller you can go when I probably have a 6mm open bite plus my bottom jaw being at a slant...it takes a lot of plastic to fill up all that space. Although, now that I have been wearing it part time, I find that I am sometimes uncomfortable without it after getting so used to it, so it really is a balancing act.

                  At any rate, it really helps me feel better talking about it. I'm such a strange case, that it's hard for people to understand what I'm going through despite the best intentions at understanding. However, I know people in this group have been through similar things.

                  KC

                  --- In orthognathicsurgerysupport@yahoogroups.com, "ceast36532" <ceast36532@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Methinks there is a bunch of wisdom in these thoughts, too...
                  >
                  > With respect to children's perceptions: I am reminded of the day I was wearing a tent-ish, bright pink dress/float I loved, and met a friend I adored, with a couple of her children who weren't more than 4 at the time.
                  >
                  > "Mama, that lady's gonna have a baby!" said one, whose very young younger sister was handy.
                  >
                  > Mama, embarrassed, said no. That mama had been pregnant, but that didn't mean the other lady (me) was.
                  >
                  > She shuffled the kids into her SUV; we exchanged greetings, and that was it. But she was as pink as my pink float -- and probably so was I! (I was, at that point, a widow of some years, neither married nor seeing any gentlemen.)
                  >
                  > Heaven knows, and heaven sends us a variety of odd things to cope with. Not all are either pleasant or pretty, but what most people who voice anything, even when they are age 4 and not entitled to explanations, will find their curiosity satisfied with simple explanations. And they might find their horizons expanded by the notion that one does not have "bad teeth," but rather a mouth that is troubled, but getting better, day by day, by way of whatever gadget.
                  >
                  >
                  > Other possible explanations: "I had a weird encounter with a moose."
                  > For adults: "My spouse and I had a really exotic sexual experience." (Blush, blush.)
                  >
                  > Old ones, but good ones. You owe no explanations, but you can have fun if you want!
                  >
                  > Cammie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > > KC,
                  > > >
                  > > > What will make it better for you is if you can see it from the perspective that it is your right and privilege to get this surgery and treatment. And that wearing a big huge appliance is not him making or forcing you to do something bad against your better judgement but to help you get to your goal. He is your helper and your guide to that place. I teach and had to also wear a huge ugly appliance for well over six months all day and at first i was sad that i would look so weird and talk more oddly than before in front of people who were supposed to look up to me, respect me, and understand my speech clearly. I was afraid they would not understand what i was saying because my speech eas more muffled with the appliance and i was afraid they would publicly or in private ridicule me and my odd looks. None of that happened. Well, i don't know what they did privately but NONE of my fears were a reality. I was fine and so were they. Nothing changed even though i had a ginormous plastic thing in my mouth that made it hard for me to swallow or keep my mouth closed.
                  > > > Chin up. Smile. You are on your way to your goal. You have an intelligent and skilled helper to get you there. You have a husband who is standing by your side. Do not let pettiness or the feeling of being a victim fool you. You are not a victim but someone who is trying to change your life and make it better. You had the smarts and power to find able people. You had the smarts and capability to find and make money to make it happen. Smile and smile to your doctor when you next see him. Have you ever smiled to him genuinely and tried to make him feel comfortable and trusted? He might be needing that from you too. Take a deep breath and trust.
                  > > >
                  > > > All the best,
                  > > > Karen
                  >
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