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Re: Russian inventors [was:A change of topic, please!]

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  • Fr. John R. Shaw
    ... JRS: I went through U.S. grade school and high school, during which I was always told that the United States had won W.W. II virtually single- handed.
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 5, 2004
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      Fr. Stefan Pavlenko wrote:

      > I remember that in school (here in the States) when any inventions
      > were discussed, no Russian inventors were ever credited properly for
      > their contribution to the invention or development of any innovations.

      JRS: I went through U.S. grade school and high school, during which I
      was always told that the United States had won W.W. II virtually single-
      handed.

      There was never any suggestion of the enormous role of Russia in the
      war, let alone of the fact that Serbian resistance also helped defeat
      Hitler.

      What they failed to realize was this -- that any thinking person would
      then have asked *why* it was, that the triumphant USA left all of
      Eastern Europe, and half of Germany, to a Soviet Union that had hardly
      been involved in the war!

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • Rebecca M
      ... which I ... single- ... This brought to mind that when I was in high school in the 70s, we were definitely introduced to some questioning of this. I can
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 5, 2004
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        Drifting further and further off-topic ... re: Fr. John's comment:

        >
        > JRS: I went through U.S. grade school and high school, during
        which I
        > was always told that the United States had won W.W. II virtually
        single-
        > handed.
        >

        This brought to mind that when I was in high school in the '70s, we
        were definitely introduced to some questioning of this. I can
        remember having to write an essay discussing the relative influence
        of the A-bombs versus the Soviet Union's entry into the pacific war
        in precipitating Japan's surrender. Actually, now that I think
        about it, this was in the context of an AP American history class
        that had us read various sources, with a heavy emphasis on primary
        sources, and then examine topics in the light of this. There was a
        lot of consideratuin (not necessarily acceptance) given to various
        revisionist ideas. In the regular world history survey class
        earlier in high school, the US triumphed alone. So, it either shows
        that things changed or things stayed the same in US classrooms from
        the the 60s into the 70s, depending on how you want to look at it.
        By the 70s the idea that the Soviet Union played a role was
        introduced, but as a radical idea.

        Of course, my Yugoslavian husband was taught that Soviet entry into
        the Pacific was the pivotal event, and the A-bombs just a
        contributing factor.

        Perhaps the lesson (struggling back to topic)is that probably none
        of the 'histories' we grow up with are entirely right and that when
        we find ourselves separated from others by widely divergent views of
        reality, we do well at least to try and understand what it is that
        the other sees/understands and be willing to question whether our
        own views are as objective and absolute as they feel.


        Rebecca


        > There was never any suggestion of the enormous role of Russia in
        the
        > war, let alone of the fact that Serbian resistance also helped
        defeat
        > Hitler.
        >
        > What they failed to realize was this -- that any thinking person
        would
        > then have asked *why* it was, that the triumphant USA left all of
        > Eastern Europe, and half of Germany, to a Soviet Union that had
        hardly
        > been involved in the war!
        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
      • Joachim Wertz
        I was told by a Serbian emigre who was a professor of mine in college, that when he was a prisoner of war in a German stalag, when they heard that Hitler
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 5, 2004
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          I was told by a Serbian emigre who was a professor of mine in college,
          that when he was a prisoner of war in a German stalag, when they heard that
          Hitler invaded Russian in June 1922, the war was over. You just don't invade
          Russia by land that late in the year. The Russian winter gets them all the
          time.

          Joachim Wertz

          From: "Rebecca M" <rmatovic@...>
          Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:59:44 -0000
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Teaching history [was Re: Russian inventors [was:A
          change of topic, please!]


          Drifting further and further off-topic ... re: Fr. John's comment:

          >
          > JRS: I went through U.S. grade school and high school, during
          which I
          > was always told that the United States had won W.W. II virtually
          single-
          > handed.
          >

          This brought to mind that when I was in high school in the '70s, we
          were definitely introduced to some questioning of this. I can
          remember having to write an essay discussing the relative influence
          of the A-bombs versus the Soviet Union's entry into the pacific war
          in precipitating Japan's surrender. Actually, now that I think
          about it, this was in the context of an AP American history class
          that had us read various sources, with a heavy emphasis on primary
          sources, and then examine topics in the light of this. There was a
          lot of consideratuin (not necessarily acceptance) given to various
          revisionist ideas. In the regular world history survey class
          earlier in high school, the US triumphed alone. So, it either shows
          that things changed or things stayed the same in US classrooms from
          the the 60s into the 70s, depending on how you want to look at it.
          By the 70s the idea that the Soviet Union played a role was
          introduced, but as a radical idea.

          Of course, my Yugoslavian husband was taught that Soviet entry into
          the Pacific was the pivotal event, and the A-bombs just a
          contributing factor.

          Perhaps the lesson (struggling back to topic)is that probably none
          of the 'histories' we grow up with are entirely right and that when
          we find ourselves separated from others by widely divergent views of
          reality, we do well at least to try and understand what it is that
          the other sees/understands and be willing to question whether our
          own views are as objective and absolute as they feel.


          Rebecca


          > There was never any suggestion of the enormous role of Russia in
          the
          > war, let alone of the fact that Serbian resistance also helped
          defeat
          > Hitler.
          >
          > What they failed to realize was this -- that any thinking person
          would
          > then have asked *why* it was, that the triumphant USA left all of
          > Eastern Europe, and half of Germany, to a Soviet Union that had
          hardly
          > been involved in the war!
          >
          > In Christ
          > Fr. John R. Shaw




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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hristofor
          Hristos se rodi! I am sure you meant 22 June 1941... By now the topic seems to have drifted off the list ;-)
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 8, 2004
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            Hristos se rodi!
            I am sure you meant 22 June 1941...
            By now the topic seems to have drifted off the list ;-)

            At 16:49 05.01.2004, you wrote:
            >I was told by a Serbian emigre who was a professor of mine in college,
            >that when he was a prisoner of war in a German stalag, when they heard
            >that Hitler invaded Russian in June 1922, the war was over. You just don't
            >invade Russia by land that late in the year. The Russian winter gets them
            >all the time.
            >Joachim Wertz
            >
            >From: "Rebecca M" <rmatovic@...>
            >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            >Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:59:44 -0000
            >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Teaching history [was Re: Russian inventors [was:A
            >change of topic, please!]
            >
            >Drifting further and further off-topic ... re: Fr. John's comment:
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