Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

A change of topic, please!

Expand Messages
  • Olga
    My dearest sisters and brothers, I don t want to hurt anyone s feelings, but it seems that recent postings, if you ll forgive me here, have been getting a
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      My dearest sisters and brothers,

      I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it seems that recent
      postings, if you'll forgive me here, have been getting a little
      repetitive, even a tad... wearying?

      I don't think that anyone's opinion is going to be changed in these
      constant verbal duels! It might be better, if for the time being, we
      all just agreed to disagree.

      Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
      If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
      which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
      you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
      most enlightening, the most moving!

      May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
      would love to hear about everyone's favorites!

      In Christ,
      Olga
    • frvboldewskul@aol.com
      There is a book I bought at the St. Hermans conference called Father Arseny. I have not been able to put it down. Extremely moving and inspiring. I would
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        There is a book I bought at the St. Hermans conference called "Father
        Arseny." I have not been able to put it down. Extremely moving and inspiring. I would
        even say no book has moved me so much in the last decade.
        Priest Victor Boldewskul

        In a message dated 12/30/03 9:18:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
        anov@... writes:

        >
        > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
        > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
        > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
        > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
        > most enlightening, the most moving!
        >
        > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
        > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Olga
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mark gilstrap
        ... This topic still tests my ability to search the LISTSERV database (this link from 1996 even refers to an old search method required to find an earlier
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
          > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
          > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
          > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
          > most enlightening, the most moving!

          This topic still tests my ability to search the LISTSERV database
          (this link from 1996 even refers to an old search method required
          to find an earlier post):

          http://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9610B&L=orthodox&P=R8911&I=-3

          If you can't see this link let me know and I'll post the text

          My list is getting old. One of the books (Sokolof's "Manual of the Orthodox
          Church's Divine Services") has since gone out of print, and then been
          reprinted
          again since I compiled this list). Many new books have arrived in English.
          "The
          Law of God" in particular must be mentioned. Also the english translations
          of
          Blessed Theophylact and Blessed Bp Nikolai's commentaries. And, for desert
          island dwelling, the Prologue is a must (not to mention the Menaion and all
          the
          service books).

          pr Mark
        • Gerald Herrin
          I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion: 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia,
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:

            1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
            2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E. Kadloubovsky and
            G.E,H. Palmer
            3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
            4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the Brothers
            Karamazov
            5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox, of
            course, but still one of the finest histories of the later Roman Empire
            in English)
            6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
            7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Fellini's La
            Strada on this desert island?

            My suggestions for myself ....

            Isaac (Gerald) Herrin


            On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:

            > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
            > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
            > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
            > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
            > most enlightening, the most moving!


            Gerald Herrin
            geraldherrin@...
          • cdw
            When you say Gospels I m assuming you mean: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. If this is a correct assumption I am truly in an quandry. My next choice would be,
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              When you say Gospels I'm assuming you mean: Matthew,
              Mark, Luke and John. If this is a correct assumption
              I am truly in an quandry. My next choice would be,

              Psalms. I have an English translation from 1871 by
              the United Presbyterian Board of Publication. (Now
              out of print) This has the psalms written in meter and
              become easily addaptable for singing or chanting. I
              have not found any inconsistencies in translation
              compared to KJV. This volume I would select above any
              others.

              Ecclesiasticus or "Book of Sirach" for it's guidance
              in dealing with friends or enemy and other every day
              struggles.

              Epistles. Sorry I can't just pick out one.

              Dobrotolubiye. Both volumes

              Saint Isaac The Syrian. Any.

              I think I have exceeded my permitted limit of ten.
              However, you at least know my first choice.

              J�an-Claude

              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
              http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
            • Fr Michael Protopopov
              Dear Fr Victor, The book you mention is excellent. It is interesting to note that the good father upon return from the camps, was a priest of the Catacomb
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Fr Victor,
                The book you mention is excellent. It is interesting to note that the good father upon return from the camps, was a priest of the Catacomb Church.
                Fr Michael
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: frvboldewskul@...
                To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 4:21 AM
                Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!


                There is a book I bought at the St. Hermans conference called "Father
                Arseny." I have not been able to put it down. Extremely moving and inspiring. I would
                even say no book has moved me so much in the last decade.
                Priest Victor Boldewskul

                In a message dated 12/30/03 9:18:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                anov@... writes:

                >
                > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
                > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
                > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                > most enlightening, the most moving!
                >
                > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
                > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Olga
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod





                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Justin Griffing
                Dear Fr. Victor, Father bless! There is a second book on Fr. Arseny entitled Fr. Arseny and the Cloud of Witnesses. I highly recommend it in addition to the
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Fr. Victor,

                  Father bless!

                  There is a second book on Fr. Arseny entitled Fr. Arseny and the Cloud of Witnesses. I highly recommend it in addition to the first.

                  In Christ,
                  Justin

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Fr Michael Protopopov
                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!


                  Dear Fr Victor,
                  The book you mention is excellent. It is interesting to note that the good father upon return from the camps, was a priest of the Catacomb Church.
                  Fr Michael
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: frvboldewskul@...
                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 4:21 AM
                  Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!


                  There is a book I bought at the St. Hermans conference called "Father
                  Arseny." I have not been able to put it down. Extremely moving and inspiring. I would
                  even say no book has moved me so much in the last decade.
                  Priest Victor Boldewskul

                  In a message dated 12/30/03 9:18:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                  anov@... writes:

                  >
                  > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                  > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
                  > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
                  > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                  > most enlightening, the most moving!
                  >
                  > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
                  > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
                  >
                  > In Christ,
                  > Olga
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod





                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod





                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                  a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                  b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                  c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Justin Griffing
                  In no particular order: The Psalter The Old Orthodox Prayerbook The Sayings of the Desert Fathers Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ (if for no other reason
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In no particular order:

                    The Psalter
                    The Old Orthodox Prayerbook
                    The Sayings of the Desert Fathers
                    Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ (if for no other reason than to remember my patron)
                    The Northern Thebaid
                    The Serbian Patericon
                    Lives of the Monastery Builders of Holy Mt. Athos
                    Ladder of Divine Ascent
                    Way of the Ascetics
                    Unseen Warfare

                    In Christ,
                    Justin
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Olga
                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:45 AM
                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!


                    My dearest sisters and brothers,

                    I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it seems that recent
                    postings, if you'll forgive me here, have been getting a little
                    repetitive, even a tad... wearying?

                    I don't think that anyone's opinion is going to be changed in these
                    constant verbal duels! It might be better, if for the time being, we
                    all just agreed to disagree.

                    Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                    If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
                    which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
                    you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                    most enlightening, the most moving!

                    May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
                    would love to hear about everyone's favorites!

                    In Christ,
                    Olga










                    Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod





                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joachim Wertz
                    Metr. Amfilohije of Montenegro once said that (beside the complete collection of the Church Fathers) one only needs the Scriptures and St. Nikolai
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 30, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Metr. Amfilohije of Montenegro once said that (beside the complete
                      collection of the Church Fathers) one only needs the Scriptures and St.
                      Nikolai Velimirovich's "Prolog of Ochrid".

                      Joachim Wertz

                      From: Gerald Herrin <geraldherrin@...>
                      Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:23:28 -0600
                      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!


                      I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:

                      1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                      2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E. Kadloubovsky and
                      G.E,H. Palmer
                      3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                      4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the Brothers
                      Karamazov
                      5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox, of
                      course, but still one of the finest histories of the later Roman Empire
                      in English)
                      6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                      7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Fellini's La
                      Strada on this desert island?

                      My suggestions for myself ....

                      Isaac (Gerald) Herrin


                      On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:

                      > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                      > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
                      > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
                      > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                      > most enlightening, the most moving!


                      Gerald Herrin
                      geraldherrin@...



                      Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod








                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • vkozyreff
                      Dear List, Speaking about Tarkovsky s Rubliov, I am not sure the film is really orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the script goes that
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 31, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear List,

                        Speaking about Tarkovsky's Rubliov, I am not sure the film is really
                        orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the script
                        goes that monk Andreï Roublev is chosen to paint frescos in a
                        cathedral, but he is disturbed by the subject: he cannot admit that
                        God takes revenge on his creatures at the dread Judgement. Moved by
                        the faith of original Christianity, he believes in a God of love and
                        of pardon, and this condemns him to loneliness and doubt.

                        I do not think that Tarkovsky had a good knowledge of what monachism
                        and orthodoxy are about. Who told him that the Church did teach the
                        vision against which his Rubliov struggled? Who told him that
                        believing in a God of love threw him, an orthodox monk, into
                        loneliness? The MP?

                        In fact, this film was not totally disagreeable to the regime, as it
                        gave a negative idea of the Church and presented Rubliev as a kind of
                        protestant in rebellion against the Church and composing his personal
                        orthodoxy. Considering that Rubliov painted among the most beautiful
                        and most orthodox icons and frescoes, the film, whatever the talent
                        of the author is almost a sacrilege. Please, Messrs. the non-orthodox
                        film directors, keep your hands off orthodoxy before you convert.

                        As you know, the regime was an expert in managing "dissidence" to its
                        benefit (Vysotsky, Akhudjava, etc.)

                        I confess that I saw the film a very long time ago, but the scent of
                        it was very little orthodox and very much soviet in my memory.

                        In God,

                        Vladimir Kozyreff



                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                        <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                        > I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:
                        >
                        > 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                        > 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E. Kadloubovsky
                        and
                        > G.E,H. Palmer
                        > 3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                        > 4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the
                        Brothers
                        > Karamazov
                        > 5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox, of
                        > course, but still one of the finest histories of the later Roman
                        Empire
                        > in English)
                        > 6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                        > 7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Fellini's
                        La
                        > Strada on this desert island?
                        >
                        > My suggestions for myself ....
                        >
                        > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                        >
                        >
                        > On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:
                        >
                        > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                        > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                        course,
                        > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones
                        that
                        > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                        > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                        >
                        >
                        > Gerald Herrin
                        > geraldherrin@e...
                      • podnoss
                        Well, I ll give you my opinion. Anything by Dostoyevsky or Chekhov. Specifically Chekhov s The Bishop & Dostoyevsky s Crime & Punishment . ... remember my
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 31, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, I'll give you my opinion.

                          Anything by Dostoyevsky or Chekhov. Specifically Chekhov's "The
                          Bishop" & Dostoyevsky's "Crime & Punishment".


                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Griffing" <jmg@j...>
                          wrote:
                          > In no particular order:
                          >
                          > The Psalter
                          > The Old Orthodox Prayerbook
                          > The Sayings of the Desert Fathers
                          > Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ (if for no other reason than to
                          remember my patron)
                          > The Northern Thebaid
                          > The Serbian Patericon
                          > Lives of the Monastery Builders of Holy Mt. Athos
                          > Ladder of Divine Ascent
                          > Way of the Ascetics
                          > Unseen Warfare
                          >
                          > In Christ,
                          > Justin
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Olga
                          > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:45 AM
                          > Subject: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!
                          >
                          >
                          > My dearest sisters and brothers,
                          >
                          > I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it seems that recent
                          > postings, if you'll forgive me here, have been getting a little
                          > repetitive, even a tad... wearying?
                          >
                          > I don't think that anyone's opinion is going to be changed in
                          these
                          > constant verbal duels! It might be better, if for the time
                          being, we
                          > all just agreed to disagree.
                          >
                          > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                          > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                          course,
                          > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones
                          that
                          > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring,
                          the
                          > most enlightening, the most moving!
                          >
                          > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian,
                          I
                          > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
                          >
                          > In Christ,
                          > Olga
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                          -----------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/
                          >
                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                          of Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • vkozyreff
                          Dera List, It is odd to put Chekhov and Dostoyevsky in the came class. Chekhov s pessimism is viewed by many in Russia as the illness of society that paved the
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 1, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dera List,

                            It is odd to put Chekhov and Dostoyevsky in the came class. Chekhov's
                            pessimism is viewed by many in Russia as the illness of society that
                            paved the way to communism and atheism. In that sense, he is very
                            Russian, but very sick and very little orthodox. According to a very
                            unorthodox writer, Berdyaev, the Church is responsible. Alkexis II
                            thinks so too, apparently.

                            For those who struggled for their faith in the USSR, Chekhov was not
                            really supportive. Since the battle is not over, I would not
                            recommend Chekhov's works about senseless life as an item for the
                            survival library.

                            "Reflecting on the causes of the collapse of old Russia, we realise
                            that the entire Russian Church bears the burden of responsibility for
                            what happened to our beloved country and our people who proved to
                            have had insufficient immunity against the pernicious false
                            teachings..." (Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow and All Russia: An Appeal
                            to Metropolitan Laurus and the Bishops' Council of the Russian
                            Orthodox Church Outside of Russia).

                            "Despite its pessimism Anton Chekhov's (1860-1904) work conveys man's
                            capacity to love his neighbor. Although he sees life as senseless, he
                            also recognizes in man the capacity to strive for perfection and the
                            ability for self renunciation. Unfortunately, part of the blame for
                            the senselessness which Chekhov and more radical writers saw in life
                            must fall on the Russian Church. As Berdyaev observed, the Church
                            often "relegated spiritual life to another and transcendent world and
                            created a religion for the soul that was homesick for the spiritual
                            life it had lost." Confusion in the proclamation of the church's
                            message brought confusion to the spiritual content of literature".
                            http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7111.asp

                            In God,

                            Vladimir Kozyreff

                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "podnoss" <podnoss@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Well, I'll give you my opinion.
                            >
                            > Anything by Dostoyevsky or Chekhov. Specifically Chekhov's "The
                            > Bishop" & Dostoyevsky's "Crime & Punishment".
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Justin Griffing" <jmg@j...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > In no particular order:
                            > >
                            > > The Psalter
                            > > The Old Orthodox Prayerbook
                            > > The Sayings of the Desert Fathers
                            > > Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ (if for no other reason than to
                            > remember my patron)
                            > > The Northern Thebaid
                            > > The Serbian Patericon
                            > > Lives of the Monastery Builders of Holy Mt. Athos
                            > > Ladder of Divine Ascent
                            > > Way of the Ascetics
                            > > Unseen Warfare
                            > >
                            > > In Christ,
                            > > Justin
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: Olga
                            > > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:45 AM
                            > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] A change of topic, please!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > My dearest sisters and brothers,
                            > >
                            > > I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it seems that
                            recent
                            > > postings, if you'll forgive me here, have been getting a little
                            > > repetitive, even a tad... wearying?
                            > >
                            > > I don't think that anyone's opinion is going to be changed in
                            > these
                            > > constant verbal duels! It might be better, if for the time
                            > being, we
                            > > all just agreed to disagree.
                            > >
                            > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                            > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                            > course,
                            > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones
                            > that
                            > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring,
                            > the
                            > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                            > >
                            > > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or
                            Russian,
                            > I
                            > > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
                            > >
                            > > In Christ,
                            > > Olga
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                            -
                            > -----------
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/
                            > >
                            > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > > orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                            > of Service.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • podnoss
                            What can we do? We must live our lives. Yes, we shall live... We shall live through the long procession of days before us, and through the long evenings; we
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 1, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              What can we do? We must live our lives. Yes, we shall live... We
                              shall live through the long procession of days before us, and
                              through the long evenings; we shall patiently bear the trials that
                              fate imposes on us; we shall work for others without rest, both now
                              and when we are old; and when our last hour comes we shall meet it
                              humbly, and there, beyond the grave, we shall say that we have
                              suffered and wept, that our life was bitter, and God will have pity
                              on us. Ah, then we shall see that bright and beautiful life; we
                              shall rejoice and look back upon our sorrow here; a tender smile--
                              and--we shall rest. I have faith
                            • vkozyreff
                              Dear Podnoss , I love Chekhov, maybe as much as you do. Chekhov used to say that it was impossible to be joyous in our world. In the emigration circles of the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 3, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear "Podnoss",

                                I love Chekhov, maybe as much as you do. Chekhov used to say that it
                                was impossible to be joyous in our world. In the emigration circles
                                of the White army's survivors, as well as among those who now, in
                                Russia, somehow survived morally and hence suffer bitterly from
                                Russia's humiliation, destruction, spiritual and moral devastation,
                                the judgement on the pre-Revolutionary "intelligentsia" is rather
                                severe.

                                They condemn the passivity, sadness, indecision, complacency, "états
                                d'âme", in which those sentimental artists and writers dwelled. The
                                country was drifting to the catastrophe and needed resolute action
                                and faith while facing determined communist terrorists. This war
                                against God and mankind is only continuing, in a much more vicious
                                and subtle way however. The devil has just changed denomination and
                                refined his tactics. He has become stronger. We have become weaker
                                and lukewarm.

                                I remember a description by Chekhov of a landscape with isbas, an
                                willows under the moonlight, which Chekhov qualifies as "beautiful
                                and sad" (not "beautiful but sad"), which is very Russian, close and
                                familiar to my feelings. In his house in Yalta, a night landscape by
                                Levitan with haystacks gives the same impression of beauty and
                                sadness. Chekhov had an immense love for Russia and is thus so close
                                to me in that sense. Moreover, how not being sad about Russia?

                                I do not think however that Chekhov, with his hesitating faith in
                                Christ and in the Church is what we need in our time of schisms and
                                confusion. We need resolution and clarity. We need most of all an
                                alert judgement, as well as an explicit and unambiguous faith in the
                                Church and in Christ.

                                This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of
                                one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make
                                straight paths for him.' "[ 3:3 Isaiah 40:3] Matthew 3:3

                                We are indeed on a deserted island, we are calling in the desert, and
                                we must make straight paths, I mean *straight* ones.

                                In God,

                                Vladimir Kozyreff


                                " The calling of all mankind, says Chekhov through the artist of "
                                the Small house with an attic ", is in spiritual activity, in the
                                constant search for the truth and the meaning of life... only
                                sciences, arts can religion can satisfy man... Sciences and arts,
                                when they represent the truth, when they aspire not at worldly
                                things, not at personal interests, but at the eternal and the
                                universal, - they search the truth, the meaning of life, God, the
                                soul ".

                                The general content of Chekhov's work and himself can be summarised
                                by these words. His work is devoted to what he saw as being the task
                                of true science and art: to search for the truth, God, the soul, the
                                meaning of life.

                                SN Bulgakov , Chekhov as a thinker

                                Very few valuable...writers of that time, reflected the Church life.
                                Neither Leskov, nor Pisemsky and even less Chekhov were true and
                                consistent mirrors of any church life in all of its completeness.
                                They all a detached view of it. Chekhov called himself a non-
                                believer, a non-orthodox.
                                http://www.svet.orthodoxy.ru/2003/n23/s016.htm

                                Merezhkovsky...says: " the Religion of mankind ", without God, the
                                religion of mankind alone, always was and has been the unconscious
                                religion of the Russian intelligentsia ". Chekhov and Gorky ... are
                                the first conscious teachers and prophets of this religion...

                                " We are the supreme beings, and if, we would really learn all the
                                power of the human genius, we would be as gods ". (A.Chehov).

                                The religious ideas the work of A.Chekhov, M.Gorky, L.Tolstoy and
                                F.Dostoevsky's. (on the basis of D.S.Merezhkovsky's critiques).
                                www.booksite.ru/fulltext/dos/toj/evs/kii/dostojevskii_f/sbor_stat/32.h
                                tm


                                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "podnoss" <podnoss@y...> wrote:
                                > What can we do? We must live our lives. Yes, we shall live... We
                                > shall live through the long procession of days before us, and
                                > through the long evenings; we shall patiently bear the trials that
                                > fate imposes on us; we shall work for others without rest, both now
                                > and when we are old; and when our last hour comes we shall meet it
                                > humbly, and there, beyond the grave, we shall say that we have
                                > suffered and wept, that our life was bitter, and God will have pity
                                > on us. Ah, then we shall see that bright and beautiful life; we
                                > shall rejoice and look back upon our sorrow here; a tender smile--
                                > and--we shall rest. I have faith
                              • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                ABBA DOROTHEI !!! Any of the books of Saint John of Kronstadt.
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jan 4, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  ABBA DOROTHEI !!!

                                  Any of the books of Saint John of Kronstadt.






                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Olga" <anov@s...> wrote:
                                  > My dearest sisters and brothers,
                                  >
                                  > I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it seems that recent
                                  > postings, if you'll forgive me here, have been getting a little
                                  > repetitive, even a tad... wearying?
                                  >
                                  > I don't think that anyone's opinion is going to be changed in these
                                  > constant verbal duels! It might be better, if for the time being, we
                                  > all just agreed to disagree.
                                  >
                                  > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                                  > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of course,
                                  > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones that
                                  > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                                  > most enlightening, the most moving!
                                  >
                                  > May I suggest a maximum list of 10, perhaps? English or Russian, I
                                  > would love to hear about everyone's favorites!
                                  >
                                  > In Christ,
                                  > Olga
                                • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                  I thought it (the film about Rubliev ) was a blasphemy, and an attempt to prove the triumph of dvoe-veria (mixture of pagan and Christian faith) over
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jan 4, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                    attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                    Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                    Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

                                    PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                    flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!


                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                    <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                    > Dear List,
                                    >
                                    > Speaking about Tarkovsky's Rubliov, I am not sure the film is really
                                    > orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the script
                                    > goes that monk Andreï Roublev is chosen to paint frescos in a
                                    > cathedral, but he is disturbed by the subject: he cannot admit that
                                    > God takes revenge on his creatures at the dread Judgement. Moved by
                                    > the faith of original Christianity, he believes in a God of love and
                                    > of pardon, and this condemns him to loneliness and doubt.
                                    >
                                    > I do not think that Tarkovsky had a good knowledge of what monachism
                                    > and orthodoxy are about. Who told him that the Church did teach the
                                    > vision against which his Rubliov struggled? Who told him that
                                    > believing in a God of love threw him, an orthodox monk, into
                                    > loneliness? The MP?
                                    >
                                    > In fact, this film was not totally disagreeable to the regime, as it
                                    > gave a negative idea of the Church and presented Rubliev as a kind of
                                    > protestant in rebellion against the Church and composing his personal
                                    > orthodoxy. Considering that Rubliov painted among the most beautiful
                                    > and most orthodox icons and frescoes, the film, whatever the talent
                                    > of the author is almost a sacrilege. Please, Messrs. the non-orthodox
                                    > film directors, keep your hands off orthodoxy before you convert.
                                    >
                                    > As you know, the regime was an expert in managing "dissidence" to its
                                    > benefit (Vysotsky, Akhudjava, etc.)
                                    >
                                    > I confess that I saw the film a very long time ago, but the scent of
                                    > it was very little orthodox and very much soviet in my memory.
                                    >
                                    > In God,
                                    >
                                    > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                    > <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                                    > > I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:
                                    > >
                                    > > 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                                    > > 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E. Kadloubovsky
                                    > and
                                    > > G.E,H. Palmer
                                    > > 3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                                    > > 4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the
                                    > Brothers
                                    > > Karamazov
                                    > > 5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox, of
                                    > > course, but still one of the finest histories of the later Roman
                                    > Empire
                                    > > in English)
                                    > > 6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                                    > > 7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and Fellini's
                                    > La
                                    > > Strada on this desert island?
                                    > >
                                    > > My suggestions for myself ....
                                    > >
                                    > > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                                    > > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                                    > course,
                                    > > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The ones
                                    > that
                                    > > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most inspiring, the
                                    > > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Gerald Herrin
                                    > > geraldherrin@e...
                                  • vkozyreff
                                    Dear Father Stefan, bless. Considering the many hot confrontations that have taken place on this forum, I think it is appropriate to glorify God whenever, as
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jan 4, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Father Stefan, bless.

                                      Considering the many hot confrontations that have taken place on this
                                      forum, I think it is appropriate to glorify God whenever, as now, we
                                      agree with one another in defending the purity of orthodoxy against
                                      those who attack it, in this particular case, our fellow Russian, the
                                      brilliant Tarkovsky.

                                      I think that this is more than just a social discussion about cinema.
                                      I do not want to take any undue advantage from agreeing with you
                                      about a film, but I am sure that if we were to scrap a little more
                                      the surface, we would find much deeper agreement than many would
                                      expect between many of us that consider themselves as antagonists of
                                      one another. May God help us to dig in that direction.

                                      As you, I am proud about the Russian creativity and scientific
                                      achievements. From what I found however, the Russian invention of
                                      aerostation, which would have taken place, by the way, much later
                                      than in Rubliev's time, about 50 years before the Montgolfier
                                      experiment, might be a forgery, as seen below. The Russian inventor
                                      might have been a German in fact. If it is so (I do not claim to have
                                      a final opinion on the subject), let us disseminate the news, as
                                      nothing can serve Russia better than the truth. She is sufficiently
                                      glorious on her own. In aeronautics, she might have to content
                                      herself with her sputniks, Tsiolkovsky, Sikorsky, Joukovsky, and a
                                      few others.

                                      http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Features/1stStrtgcBmbrSq.html

                                      Unfortunately, in sciences as in spirituality, Russians have reached
                                      historical records both in lying and in proclaiming the truth. The
                                      Lyssenko affair (see below) is about one of the mot shameful deceits
                                      by Soviet scientists.

                                      It looks as though Russia can be only the best or the worst of all
                                      nations. In spite of all, she is our beloved country. Let us pray God
                                      that he help her to become only true.

                                      In God,

                                      Vladimir Kozyreff

                                      -----

                                      Aerostation

                                      In 1956 the book "Documents on the history of aeronautics and
                                      aircraft in the USSR " was published. In the chapter
                                      entitled "Aeronautics and aircraft in Russia until 1907", the story
                                      of Kryakutnoy, who allegedly first-ever travelled in a balloon is
                                      reported. This is given as the proof that the Russian were first in
                                      the field of aeronautics.

                                      Incidentally, the process that created this nonexistent character is
                                      well-known to the experts. As D.S. Likhachov reports, in the
                                      chronicle's text "in 1731 in Ryazan under voyevod "podyachy"
                                      nyeretkhtiets Kryakutnoy Furvin made a big balloon, inflated it with
                                      a nasty and smelly smoke", it could be established by photographic
                                      researches, that the word "nierekhtiets" is written on top of the
                                      word "niemiets" (German), and the surname "Kryakutnoy" covers the
                                      word "kreschenoy", as if to the surname "Furvin" a correction was
                                      made to the initial "Furtsel". Despite the protests by experts,
                                      Kryakutnoy continued his triumphal procession in the pages of the
                                      scientific and popular scientific literature until the last decade of
                                      the XXst century.

                                      Historical stories and mythology of the XXst century, Yury Shatin,
                                      The Novosibirsk state pedagogical university, Criticism and
                                      semiotics. May, 2002. pp. 100-108

                                      http://www.nsu.ru/education/virtual/cs5shatin.htm

                                      See also:

                                      http://www.utro.ru/column/2001082303201331381.shtml

                                      -----

                                      Scientific forgery in general, and Lyssenko specifically

                                      However, ideologies are not in themselves passive inert forms of
                                      consciousness but are part and parcel of practical and symbolic
                                      activities ; they federate interests, galvanize passions, permeate
                                      institutions and sometimes become official through State action.
                                      Consequently, their reaction to scientific news is often biased and
                                      is aimed at either confirming or refuting it. In extreme cases, as
                                      history has often shown, ideologies turn some items of information
                                      into dogma and declare war on others.


                                      The Lyssenko case is still the classic example of this. As, in the
                                      USSR of the middle of this century, " Mendel-Morgan genetics" were
                                      considered incompatible with Party and State philosophy, they were
                                      totally censored for nearly twenty years, with disastrous
                                      consequences in many fields....

                                      Ideologies thus emerge as very powerful selective distorting factors
                                      in the transmission of scientific news, the more so as they bias the
                                      judgement, not only of the public but also of journalists, and even
                                      in large measure that of many scientists...

                                      http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/english/avis/a_045p02.htm


                                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                                      <StefanVPavlenko@n...> wrote:
                                      > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                      > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                      > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                      > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                      >
                                      > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                      > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                      > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                      > > Dear List,
                                      > >
                                      > > Speaking about Tarkovsky's Rubliov, I am not sure the film is
                                      really
                                      > > orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the
                                      script
                                      > > goes that monk Andreï Roublev is chosen to paint frescos in a
                                      > > cathedral, but he is disturbed by the subject: he cannot admit
                                      that
                                      > > God takes revenge on his creatures at the dread Judgement. Moved
                                      by
                                      > > the faith of original Christianity, he believes in a God of love
                                      and
                                      > > of pardon, and this condemns him to loneliness and doubt.
                                      > >
                                      > > I do not think that Tarkovsky had a good knowledge of what
                                      monachism
                                      > > and orthodoxy are about. Who told him that the Church did teach
                                      the
                                      > > vision against which his Rubliov struggled? Who told him that
                                      > > believing in a God of love threw him, an orthodox monk, into
                                      > > loneliness? The MP?
                                      > >
                                      > > In fact, this film was not totally disagreeable to the regime, as
                                      it
                                      > > gave a negative idea of the Church and presented Rubliev as a
                                      kind of
                                      > > protestant in rebellion against the Church and composing his
                                      personal
                                      > > orthodoxy. Considering that Rubliov painted among the most
                                      beautiful
                                      > > and most orthodox icons and frescoes, the film, whatever the
                                      talent
                                      > > of the author is almost a sacrilege. Please, Messrs. the non-
                                      orthodox
                                      > > film directors, keep your hands off orthodoxy before you convert.
                                      > >
                                      > > As you know, the regime was an expert in managing "dissidence" to
                                      its
                                      > > benefit (Vysotsky, Akhudjava, etc.)
                                      > >
                                      > > I confess that I saw the film a very long time ago, but the scent
                                      of
                                      > > it was very little orthodox and very much soviet in my memory.
                                      > >
                                      > > In God,
                                      > >
                                      > > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                      > > <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                                      > > > I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                                      > > > 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E.
                                      Kadloubovsky
                                      > > and
                                      > > > G.E,H. Palmer
                                      > > > 3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                                      > > > 4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the
                                      > > Brothers
                                      > > > Karamazov
                                      > > > 5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox,
                                      of
                                      > > > course, but still one of the finest histories of the later
                                      Roman
                                      > > Empire
                                      > > > in English)
                                      > > > 6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                                      > > > 7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and
                                      Fellini's
                                      > > La
                                      > > > Strada on this desert island?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > My suggestions for myself ....
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                                      > > > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                                      > > course,
                                      > > > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The
                                      ones
                                      > > that
                                      > > > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most
                                      inspiring, the
                                      > > > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Gerald Herrin
                                      > > > geraldherrin@e...
                                    • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                      My understanding was that the first lighter than air flight (Balloon) took place in Russia during the reign of Ivan Grosni. My brother always claimed that the
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        My understanding was that the first lighter than air flight (Balloon)
                                        took place in Russia during the reign of Ivan Grosni. My brother
                                        always claimed that the story in detail may have been a bit distorted
                                        but that there was a kernel of truth to the main point.

                                        What is the foundation, if any for such an account?

                                        I remember that in school (here in the States) when any inventions
                                        were discussed, no Russian inventors were ever credited properly for
                                        their contribution to the invention or development of any innovations.

                                        So I was sure that the Balloon flight was also an oversight as the others.




                                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                        <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                        > Dear Father Stefan, bless.
                                        >
                                        > Considering the many hot confrontations that have taken place on this
                                        > forum, I think it is appropriate to glorify God whenever, as now, we
                                        > agree with one another in defending the purity of orthodoxy against
                                        > those who attack it, in this particular case, our fellow Russian, the
                                        > brilliant Tarkovsky.
                                        >
                                        > I think that this is more than just a social discussion about cinema.
                                        > I do not want to take any undue advantage from agreeing with you
                                        > about a film, but I am sure that if we were to scrap a little more
                                        > the surface, we would find much deeper agreement than many would
                                        > expect between many of us that consider themselves as antagonists of
                                        > one another. May God help us to dig in that direction.
                                        >
                                        > As you, I am proud about the Russian creativity and scientific
                                        > achievements. From what I found however, the Russian invention of
                                        > aerostation, which would have taken place, by the way, much later
                                        > than in Rubliev's time, about 50 years before the Montgolfier
                                        > experiment, might be a forgery, as seen below. The Russian inventor
                                        > might have been a German in fact. If it is so (I do not claim to have
                                        > a final opinion on the subject), let us disseminate the news, as
                                        > nothing can serve Russia better than the truth. She is sufficiently
                                        > glorious on her own. In aeronautics, she might have to content
                                        > herself with her sputniks, Tsiolkovsky, Sikorsky, Joukovsky, and a
                                        > few others.
                                        >
                                        > http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Features/1stStrtgcBmbrSq.html
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately, in sciences as in spirituality, Russians have reached
                                        > historical records both in lying and in proclaiming the truth. The
                                        > Lyssenko affair (see below) is about one of the mot shameful deceits
                                        > by Soviet scientists.
                                        >
                                        > It looks as though Russia can be only the best or the worst of all
                                        > nations. In spite of all, she is our beloved country. Let us pray God
                                        > that he help her to become only true.
                                        >
                                        > In God,
                                        >
                                        > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                        >
                                        > -----
                                        >
                                        > Aerostation
                                        >
                                        > In 1956 the book "Documents on the history of aeronautics and
                                        > aircraft in the USSR " was published. In the chapter
                                        > entitled "Aeronautics and aircraft in Russia until 1907", the story
                                        > of Kryakutnoy, who allegedly first-ever travelled in a balloon is
                                        > reported. This is given as the proof that the Russian were first in
                                        > the field of aeronautics.
                                        >
                                        > Incidentally, the process that created this nonexistent character is
                                        > well-known to the experts. As D.S. Likhachov reports, in the
                                        > chronicle's text "in 1731 in Ryazan under voyevod "podyachy"
                                        > nyeretkhtiets Kryakutnoy Furvin made a big balloon, inflated it with
                                        > a nasty and smelly smoke", it could be established by photographic
                                        > researches, that the word "nierekhtiets" is written on top of the
                                        > word "niemiets" (German), and the surname "Kryakutnoy" covers the
                                        > word "kreschenoy", as if to the surname "Furvin" a correction was
                                        > made to the initial "Furtsel". Despite the protests by experts,
                                        > Kryakutnoy continued his triumphal procession in the pages of the
                                        > scientific and popular scientific literature until the last decade of
                                        > the XXst century.
                                        >
                                        > Historical stories and mythology of the XXst century, Yury Shatin,
                                        > The Novosibirsk state pedagogical university, Criticism and
                                        > semiotics. May, 2002. pp. 100-108
                                        >
                                        > http://www.nsu.ru/education/virtual/cs5shatin.htm
                                        >
                                        > See also:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.utro.ru/column/2001082303201331381.shtml
                                        >
                                        > -----
                                        >
                                        > Scientific forgery in general, and Lyssenko specifically
                                        >
                                        > However, ideologies are not in themselves passive inert forms of
                                        > consciousness but are part and parcel of practical and symbolic
                                        > activities ; they federate interests, galvanize passions, permeate
                                        > institutions and sometimes become official through State action.
                                        > Consequently, their reaction to scientific news is often biased and
                                        > is aimed at either confirming or refuting it. In extreme cases, as
                                        > history has often shown, ideologies turn some items of information
                                        > into dogma and declare war on others.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The Lyssenko case is still the classic example of this. As, in the
                                        > USSR of the middle of this century, " Mendel-Morgan genetics" were
                                        > considered incompatible with Party and State philosophy, they were
                                        > totally censored for nearly twenty years, with disastrous
                                        > consequences in many fields....
                                        >
                                        > Ideologies thus emerge as very powerful selective distorting factors
                                        > in the transmission of scientific news, the more so as they bias the
                                        > judgement, not only of the public but also of journalists, and even
                                        > in large measure that of many scientists...
                                        >
                                        > http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/english/avis/a_045p02.htm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                                        > <StefanVPavlenko@n...> wrote:
                                        > > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                        > > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                        > > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                        > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                        > >
                                        > > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                        > > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                        > > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                        > > > Dear List,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Speaking about Tarkovsky's Rubliov, I am not sure the film is
                                        > really
                                        > > > orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the
                                        > script
                                        > > > goes that monk Andreï Roublev is chosen to paint frescos in a
                                        > > > cathedral, but he is disturbed by the subject: he cannot admit
                                        > that
                                        > > > God takes revenge on his creatures at the dread Judgement. Moved
                                        > by
                                        > > > the faith of original Christianity, he believes in a God of love
                                        > and
                                        > > > of pardon, and this condemns him to loneliness and doubt.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I do not think that Tarkovsky had a good knowledge of what
                                        > monachism
                                        > > > and orthodoxy are about. Who told him that the Church did teach
                                        > the
                                        > > > vision against which his Rubliov struggled? Who told him that
                                        > > > believing in a God of love threw him, an orthodox monk, into
                                        > > > loneliness? The MP?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In fact, this film was not totally disagreeable to the regime, as
                                        > it
                                        > > > gave a negative idea of the Church and presented Rubliev as a
                                        > kind of
                                        > > > protestant in rebellion against the Church and composing his
                                        > personal
                                        > > > orthodoxy. Considering that Rubliov painted among the most
                                        > beautiful
                                        > > > and most orthodox icons and frescoes, the film, whatever the
                                        > talent
                                        > > > of the author is almost a sacrilege. Please, Messrs. the non-
                                        > orthodox
                                        > > > film directors, keep your hands off orthodoxy before you convert.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As you know, the regime was an expert in managing "dissidence" to
                                        > its
                                        > > > benefit (Vysotsky, Akhudjava, etc.)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I confess that I saw the film a very long time ago, but the scent
                                        > of
                                        > > > it was very little orthodox and very much soviet in my memory.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In God,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                        > > > <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                                        > > > > I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                                        > > > > 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E.
                                        > Kadloubovsky
                                        > > > and
                                        > > > > G.E,H. Palmer
                                        > > > > 3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                                        > > > > 4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the
                                        > > > Brothers
                                        > > > > Karamazov
                                        > > > > 5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox,
                                        > of
                                        > > > > course, but still one of the finest histories of the later
                                        > Roman
                                        > > > Empire
                                        > > > > in English)
                                        > > > > 6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                                        > > > > 7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and
                                        > Fellini's
                                        > > > La
                                        > > > > Strada on this desert island?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > My suggestions for myself ....
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                                        > > > > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                                        > > > course,
                                        > > > > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The
                                        > ones
                                        > > > that
                                        > > > > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most
                                        > inspiring, the
                                        > > > > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Gerald Herrin
                                        > > > > geraldherrin@e...
                                      • Fr. Gregory Williams
                                        There s an old joke which says that the most famous inventor in the Soviet Union was a fellow named Reguspatoff.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          There's an old joke which says that the most famous inventor in the Soviet
                                          Union was a fellow named Reguspatoff.
                                        • Gerald Herrin
                                          Blasphemy is a very serious charge against any artist or movie. I don t think the film Andrei Rublev was an attempt to prove anything, but if it were such,
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Blasphemy is a very serious charge against any artist or movie. I don't
                                            think the film "Andrei Rublev" was an attempt to "prove" anything, but
                                            if it were such, then perhaps we should see the main character of the
                                            movie as being not Rublev (who, after all, historically we know almost
                                            nothing about) but rather the character Boriska who makes the bell for
                                            the Grand Duke.) Like the balloonist who first flies, then falls to his
                                            death, Boriska reaches out to create, dominating others by sheer drive
                                            of artistic exuberance. The film is not a biography of the saint. It is
                                            also not an "historical" film except in the sense that Tarkovsky wanted
                                            authenticity in set design, clothing (but he wanted very much for it
                                            not to be a "museum" piece). Tarkovsky did not want to create a movie
                                            to "prove" or "demonstrate" anything. He wanted a film to show life.
                                            Tarkovsky believed that without faith, no artist could create anything
                                            of worth. He believed that almost all the "entertainments" done in
                                            Hollywood were deeply wrong, distorted. The movie Rublev is a movie
                                            about the artist who attempts to create, who suffers, who struggles.
                                            Rublev is tempted, sins, repents, and it is only after repenting
                                            through suffering that he becomes the man who could draw the icon of
                                            the Holy Trinity. "For Tarkovsky Roublev is the first true Russian
                                            artist and his "Trinity" the first original Russian work of art, born
                                            of the hopes, struggles, and suffering of the times." page 89, The
                                            Films of Andrei Tarkovsky:A Visual Fugue" by Vida Johnson and Graham
                                            Petrie, Indiana University Press, 1994.
                                            If I believed that the movie was truly blasphemous, I would never watch
                                            it, nor would I ever encourage others to do so.
                                            Forgive me if I offend in any way for I do not intend to do so.

                                            Isaac (Gerald) Herrin








                                            On Sunday, January 4, 2004, at 03:18 AM, Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                            wrote:

                                            > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                            > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                            > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                            >
                                            > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                            > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                            Gerald Herrin
                                            geraldherrin@...
                                          • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                            I also meant no offence to anyone personally. So please forgive me is my choice of words was to strong. A Joyous and Grace filled Nativity feast to all!
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I also meant no offence to anyone personally. So please forgive me is
                                              my choice of words was to strong. A Joyous and Grace filled Nativity
                                              feast to all!


                                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                              <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                                              > Blasphemy is a very serious charge against any artist or movie. I don't
                                              > think the film "Andrei Rublev" was an attempt to "prove" anything, but
                                              > if it were such, then perhaps we should see the main character of the
                                              > movie as being not Rublev (who, after all, historically we know almost
                                              > nothing about) but rather the character Boriska who makes the bell for
                                              > the Grand Duke.) Like the balloonist who first flies, then falls to his
                                              > death, Boriska reaches out to create, dominating others by sheer drive
                                              > of artistic exuberance. The film is not a biography of the saint. It is
                                              > also not an "historical" film except in the sense that Tarkovsky wanted
                                              > authenticity in set design, clothing (but he wanted very much for it
                                              > not to be a "museum" piece). Tarkovsky did not want to create a movie
                                              > to "prove" or "demonstrate" anything. He wanted a film to show life.
                                              > Tarkovsky believed that without faith, no artist could create anything
                                              > of worth. He believed that almost all the "entertainments" done in
                                              > Hollywood were deeply wrong, distorted. The movie Rublev is a movie
                                              > about the artist who attempts to create, who suffers, who struggles.
                                              > Rublev is tempted, sins, repents, and it is only after repenting
                                              > through suffering that he becomes the man who could draw the icon of
                                              > the Holy Trinity. "For Tarkovsky Roublev is the first true Russian
                                              > artist and his "Trinity" the first original Russian work of art, born
                                              > of the hopes, struggles, and suffering of the times." page 89, The
                                              > Films of Andrei Tarkovsky:A Visual Fugue" by Vida Johnson and Graham
                                              > Petrie, Indiana University Press, 1994.
                                              > If I believed that the movie was truly blasphemous, I would never watch
                                              > it, nor would I ever encourage others to do so.
                                              > Forgive me if I offend in any way for I do not intend to do so.
                                              >
                                              > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Sunday, January 4, 2004, at 03:18 AM, Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                              > wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                              > > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                              > > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                              > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                              > >
                                              > > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                              > > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                              > Gerald Herrin
                                              > geraldherrin@e...
                                            • podnoss
                                              So much has been conveniently forgotten about the events from February 17 to July 18. On February 26, 1917 there were about 300 000 people on the streets of
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                So much has been conveniently forgotten about the events from
                                                February '17 to July '18.

                                                On February 26, 1917 there were about 300 000 people on the streets
                                                of Petrograd calling for the downfall of the Tsar. Repression was
                                                impossible. All the Tsar's senior generals had told him this and - on
                                                the advice of M. Rodzianko the Speaker of the Duma - convinced him to
                                                abdicate.

                                                The 250 000 soldiers of the Petrograd garrison had gone over to the
                                                people's side on February 27, forcing the police in the capital to
                                                flee. People called for the Tsar and the Empress to be shot. "And
                                                they shouldn't spare the daughters" was a popular refrain. No armed
                                                force could have put down what became a national uprising against the
                                                monarchy. Perhaps someone such as yourself could've stepped forward
                                                and warned the people that it was a sin to rise up against the Tsar.
                                                If they failed to listen, what then?





                                                -- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > They condemn the passivity, sadness, indecision,
                                                complacency, "états
                                                > d'âme", in which those sentimental artists and writers dwelled. The
                                                > country was drifting to the catastrophe and needed resolute action
                                                > and faith while facing determined communist terrorists
                                              • Igumeniya Iulianiya
                                                Subject: Nativity Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:45:08 -0500 A Nativity Reflection In 1994, two Americans answered an invitation from the Russian Department of
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Subject: Nativity Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 09:45:08 -0500 A Nativity Reflection

                                                  In 1994, two Americans answered an invitation from the Russian Department of Education to teach morals and ethics (based on biblical principles) in the public schools. They were invited to teach at prisons, businesses, the fire and police departments, and a large orphanage. About 100 boys and girls who had been abandoned, abused, and left in the care of a government-run program were in the orphanage. They relate the following story in their own words. It was nearing the holiday season, 1994, time for our orphans to hear, for the first time, the traditional story of Christmas. We told them about Mary and Joseph arriving in Bethlehem. Finding no room in the inn, the couple went to a stable, where the baby Jesus was born and placed in a manger. Throughout the story, the children and orphanage staff sat in amazement as they listened. Some sat on the edges of their stools, trying to grasp every word. Completing the story, we gave the children three small pieces of cardboard to make a
                                                  crude manger. Each child was given a small paper square, cut from yellow napkins I had brought with me. No colored paper was available in the city. Following instructions, the children tore the paper and carefully laid strips in the manger for straw. Small squares of flannel, cut from a worn-out nightgown an American lady was throwing away as she left Russia, were used for the baby's blanket. A doll-like baby was cut from tan felt we had brought from the United States. The orphans were busy assembling their manger as I walked among them to see if they needed any help. All went well until I got to one table where little Misha sat. He looked to be about 6 years old and had finished his project. As I looked at the little boy's manger, was startled to see not one, but two babies in the manger. Quickly, I called for the translator to ask the lad why there were two babies in the manger. Crossing his arms in front of him and looking at this completed manger scene, the child began to repeat
                                                  the story very seriously. For such a young boy, who had only heard the Christmas story once, he related the happenings accurately - until he came to the part where Mary put the baby Jesus in the manger. Then Misha started to ad-lib. He made up his own ending to the story as he said, "And when Maria laid the baby in the manger, Jesus looked at me and asked me if I had a place to stay. I told him I have no mamma and I have no papa, so I don't have any place to stay. Then Jesus told me I could stay with him. But I told him I couldn't, because I didn't have a gift to give him like everybody else did. But I wanted to stay with Jesus so much, so I thought about what I had that maybe I could use for a gift. I thought maybe if I kept him warm, that would be a good gift. "So I asked Jesus, 'If I keep you warm, will that be a good enough gift?' And Jesus told me, 'If you keep me warm, that will be the best gift anybody ever gave me.' "So I got into the manger, and then Jesus looked at me and
                                                  He told me I could stay with him - for always." As little Misha finished his story, his eyes brimmed full of tears that splashed down his cheeks. Putting his hand over his face, his head dropped to the table, and his shoulders shook as he sobbed and sobbed. The little orphan had found someone who would never abandon nor abuse him, someone who would stay with him, as he said - FOR ALWAYS. Like Misha, I have learned that it's not what you have in your life, but who you have in your life that really counts. "Be joyful always; pray continually; give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus." In Him Who calls us, + Father Archimandrite Gregory


                                                  Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:My understanding was that the first lighter than air flight (Balloon)
                                                  took place in Russia during the reign of Ivan Grosni. My brother
                                                  always claimed that the story in detail may have been a bit distorted
                                                  but that there was a kernel of truth to the main point.

                                                  What is the foundation, if any for such an account?

                                                  I remember that in school (here in the States) when any inventions
                                                  were discussed, no Russian inventors were ever credited properly for
                                                  their contribution to the invention or development of any innovations.

                                                  So I was sure that the Balloon flight was also an oversight as the others.




                                                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > Dear Father Stefan, bless.
                                                  >
                                                  > Considering the many hot confrontations that have taken place on this
                                                  > forum, I think it is appropriate to glorify God whenever, as now, we
                                                  > agree with one another in defending the purity of orthodoxy against
                                                  > those who attack it, in this particular case, our fellow Russian, the
                                                  > brilliant Tarkovsky.
                                                  >
                                                  > I think that this is more than just a social discussion about cinema.
                                                  > I do not want to take any undue advantage from agreeing with you
                                                  > about a film, but I am sure that if we were to scrap a little more
                                                  > the surface, we would find much deeper agreement than many would
                                                  > expect between many of us that consider themselves as antagonists of
                                                  > one another. May God help us to dig in that direction.
                                                  >
                                                  > As you, I am proud about the Russian creativity and scientific
                                                  > achievements. From what I found however, the Russian invention of
                                                  > aerostation, which would have taken place, by the way, much later
                                                  > than in Rubliev's time, about 50 years before the Montgolfier
                                                  > experiment, might be a forgery, as seen below. The Russian inventor
                                                  > might have been a German in fact. If it is so (I do not claim to have
                                                  > a final opinion on the subject), let us disseminate the news, as
                                                  > nothing can serve Russia better than the truth. She is sufficiently
                                                  > glorious on her own. In aeronautics, she might have to content
                                                  > herself with her sputniks, Tsiolkovsky, Sikorsky, Joukovsky, and a
                                                  > few others.
                                                  >
                                                  > http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/Features/1stStrtgcBmbrSq.html
                                                  >
                                                  > Unfortunately, in sciences as in spirituality, Russians have reached
                                                  > historical records both in lying and in proclaiming the truth. The
                                                  > Lyssenko affair (see below) is about one of the mot shameful deceits
                                                  > by Soviet scientists.
                                                  >
                                                  > It looks as though Russia can be only the best or the worst of all
                                                  > nations. In spite of all, she is our beloved country. Let us pray God
                                                  > that he help her to become only true.
                                                  >
                                                  > In God,
                                                  >
                                                  > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                                  >
                                                  > -----
                                                  >
                                                  > Aerostation
                                                  >
                                                  > In 1956 the book "Documents on the history of aeronautics and
                                                  > aircraft in the USSR " was published. In the chapter
                                                  > entitled "Aeronautics and aircraft in Russia until 1907", the story
                                                  > of Kryakutnoy, who allegedly first-ever travelled in a balloon is
                                                  > reported. This is given as the proof that the Russian were first in
                                                  > the field of aeronautics.
                                                  >
                                                  > Incidentally, the process that created this nonexistent character is
                                                  > well-known to the experts. As D.S. Likhachov reports, in the
                                                  > chronicle's text "in 1731 in Ryazan under voyevod "podyachy"
                                                  > nyeretkhtiets Kryakutnoy Furvin made a big balloon, inflated it with
                                                  > a nasty and smelly smoke", it could be established by photographic
                                                  > researches, that the word "nierekhtiets" is written on top of the
                                                  > word "niemiets" (German), and the surname "Kryakutnoy" covers the
                                                  > word "kreschenoy", as if to the surname "Furvin" a correction was
                                                  > made to the initial "Furtsel". Despite the protests by experts,
                                                  > Kryakutnoy continued his triumphal procession in the pages of the
                                                  > scientific and popular scientific literature until the last decade of
                                                  > the XXst century.
                                                  >
                                                  > Historical stories and mythology of the XXst century, Yury Shatin,
                                                  > The Novosibirsk state pedagogical university, Criticism and
                                                  > semiotics. May, 2002. pp. 100-108
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.nsu.ru/education/virtual/cs5shatin.htm
                                                  >
                                                  > See also:
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.utro.ru/column/2001082303201331381.shtml
                                                  >
                                                  > -----
                                                  >
                                                  > Scientific forgery in general, and Lyssenko specifically
                                                  >
                                                  > However, ideologies are not in themselves passive inert forms of
                                                  > consciousness but are part and parcel of practical and symbolic
                                                  > activities ; they federate interests, galvanize passions, permeate
                                                  > institutions and sometimes become official through State action.
                                                  > Consequently, their reaction to scientific news is often biased and
                                                  > is aimed at either confirming or refuting it. In extreme cases, as
                                                  > history has often shown, ideologies turn some items of information
                                                  > into dogma and declare war on others.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > The Lyssenko case is still the classic example of this. As, in the
                                                  > USSR of the middle of this century, " Mendel-Morgan genetics" were
                                                  > considered incompatible with Party and State philosophy, they were
                                                  > totally censored for nearly twenty years, with disastrous
                                                  > consequences in many fields....
                                                  >
                                                  > Ideologies thus emerge as very powerful selective distorting factors
                                                  > in the transmission of scientific news, the more so as they bias the
                                                  > judgement, not only of the public but also of journalists, and even
                                                  > in large measure that of many scientists...
                                                  >
                                                  > http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/english/avis/a_045p02.htm
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                                  > > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                                  > > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                                  > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                                  > >
                                                  > > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                                  > > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                  > > wrote:
                                                  > > > Dear List,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Speaking about Tarkovsky's Rubliov, I am not sure the film is
                                                  > really
                                                  > > > orthodox. It is certainly not historical. If I remember, the
                                                  > script
                                                  > > > goes that monk Andre� Roublev is chosen to paint frescos in a
                                                  > > > cathedral, but he is disturbed by the subject: he cannot admit
                                                  > that
                                                  > > > God takes revenge on his creatures at the dread Judgement. Moved
                                                  > by
                                                  > > > the faith of original Christianity, he believes in a God of love
                                                  > and
                                                  > > > of pardon, and this condemns him to loneliness and doubt.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I do not think that Tarkovsky had a good knowledge of what
                                                  > monachism
                                                  > > > and orthodoxy are about. Who told him that the Church did teach
                                                  > the
                                                  > > > vision against which his Rubliov struggled? Who told him that
                                                  > > > believing in a God of love threw him, an orthodox monk, into
                                                  > > > loneliness? The MP?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > In fact, this film was not totally disagreeable to the regime, as
                                                  > it
                                                  > > > gave a negative idea of the Church and presented Rubliev as a
                                                  > kind of
                                                  > > > protestant in rebellion against the Church and composing his
                                                  > personal
                                                  > > > orthodoxy. Considering that Rubliov painted among the most
                                                  > beautiful
                                                  > > > and most orthodox icons and frescoes, the film, whatever the
                                                  > talent
                                                  > > > of the author is almost a sacrilege. Please, Messrs. the non-
                                                  > orthodox
                                                  > > > film directors, keep your hands off orthodoxy before you convert.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > As you know, the regime was an expert in managing "dissidence" to
                                                  > its
                                                  > > > benefit (Vysotsky, Akhudjava, etc.)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I confess that I saw the film a very long time ago, but the scent
                                                  > of
                                                  > > > it was very little orthodox and very much soviet in my memory.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > In God,
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Vladimir Kozyreff
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                                  > > > wrote:
                                                  > > > > I am pleased to answer this, or at least give my opinion:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > 1) The Northern Thebaid: Monastic Saints of the Russian North
                                                  > > > > 2) Early Fathers from the Philokalia, translated by E.
                                                  > Kadloubovsky
                                                  > > > and
                                                  > > > > G.E,H. Palmer
                                                  > > > > 3) Any of the biographies of the Optina Elders
                                                  > > > > 4) Dostoevsky.... Crime and Punishment, The Demons, and the
                                                  > > > Brothers
                                                  > > > > Karamazov
                                                  > > > > 5) Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (not Orthodox,
                                                  > of
                                                  > > > > course, but still one of the finest histories of the later
                                                  > Roman
                                                  > > > Empire
                                                  > > > > in English)
                                                  > > > > 6) Saint Augustine's Confessions
                                                  > > > > 7) and could I watch Andrei Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev and
                                                  > Fellini's
                                                  > > > La
                                                  > > > > Strada on this desert island?
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > My suggestions for myself ....
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > On Tuesday, December 30, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Olga wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Therefore, I propose a change of topic:
                                                  > > > > > If you were stuck on a desert island, besides the Gospel, of
                                                  > > > course,
                                                  > > > > > which Orthodox books would you want to have with you? The
                                                  > ones
                                                  > > > that
                                                  > > > > > you find particularly close to your heart, the most
                                                  > inspiring, the
                                                  > > > > > most enlightening, the most moving!
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Gerald Herrin
                                                  > > > > geraldherrin@e...


                                                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                                                  Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                  To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                                                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                  orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                                                  ---------------------------------
                                                  Do you Yahoo!?
                                                  Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Fr Michael Protopopov
                                                  Every blessing to you and your family Father, for the Nativity and Theophany. Fr Michael ... From: Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko To:
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jan 5, 2004
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Every blessing to you and your family Father, for the Nativity and
                                                    Theophany.
                                                    Fr Michael

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:17 AM
                                                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: A change of topic, please!


                                                    I also meant no offence to anyone personally. So please forgive me is
                                                    my choice of words was to strong. A Joyous and Grace filled Nativity
                                                    feast to all!


                                                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Herrin
                                                    <geraldherrin@e...> wrote:
                                                    > Blasphemy is a very serious charge against any artist or movie. I don't
                                                    > think the film "Andrei Rublev" was an attempt to "prove" anything, but
                                                    > if it were such, then perhaps we should see the main character of the
                                                    > movie as being not Rublev (who, after all, historically we know almost
                                                    > nothing about) but rather the character Boriska who makes the bell for
                                                    > the Grand Duke.) Like the balloonist who first flies, then falls to his
                                                    > death, Boriska reaches out to create, dominating others by sheer drive
                                                    > of artistic exuberance. The film is not a biography of the saint. It is
                                                    > also not an "historical" film except in the sense that Tarkovsky wanted
                                                    > authenticity in set design, clothing (but he wanted very much for it
                                                    > not to be a "museum" piece). Tarkovsky did not want to create a movie
                                                    > to "prove" or "demonstrate" anything. He wanted a film to show life.
                                                    > Tarkovsky believed that without faith, no artist could create anything
                                                    > of worth. He believed that almost all the "entertainments" done in
                                                    > Hollywood were deeply wrong, distorted. The movie Rublev is a movie
                                                    > about the artist who attempts to create, who suffers, who struggles.
                                                    > Rublev is tempted, sins, repents, and it is only after repenting
                                                    > through suffering that he becomes the man who could draw the icon of
                                                    > the Holy Trinity. "For Tarkovsky Roublev is the first true Russian
                                                    > artist and his "Trinity" the first original Russian work of art, born
                                                    > of the hopes, struggles, and suffering of the times." page 89, The
                                                    > Films of Andrei Tarkovsky:A Visual Fugue" by Vida Johnson and Graham
                                                    > Petrie, Indiana University Press, 1994.
                                                    > If I believed that the movie was truly blasphemous, I would never watch
                                                    > it, nor would I ever encourage others to do so.
                                                    > Forgive me if I offend in any way for I do not intend to do so.
                                                    >
                                                    > Isaac (Gerald) Herrin
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > On Sunday, January 4, 2004, at 03:18 AM, Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > I thought it (the film about "Rubliev") was a blasphemy, and an
                                                    > > attempt to prove the triumph of "dvoe-veria" (mixture of pagan and
                                                    > > Christian faith) over Orthodoxy in Russia!
                                                    > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                                    > >
                                                    > > PS: It is though, a historical FACT that it was a Russian who first
                                                    > > flew in the air in a Lighter that air/hot air balloon!!!
                                                    > Gerald Herrin
                                                    > geraldherrin@e...



                                                    Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod




                                                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                    ADVERTISEMENT





                                                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                                                    a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-synod/

                                                    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    orthodox-synod-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • vkozyreff
                                                    Dear Podnoss , This was the result of a long evolution and unwarranted tolerance that had lasted for a long time. The White army however took up arms and
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jan 6, 2004
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Dear "Podnoss",

                                                      This was the result of a long evolution and unwarranted tolerance
                                                      that had lasted for a long time.

                                                      The White army however took up arms and started a war, 1 against 25.
                                                      Many gave their life, they almost won, were finally defeated, and
                                                      saved Russia's honour. They acquired a certain right to speak about
                                                      those who had let it happen.

                                                      Indeed, the situation in the streets was terrible. For a lively,
                                                      American-sided and first account of what really happened, see below.

                                                      In God,

                                                      Vladimir Kozyreff

                                                      …Senator Nelson: can you tell to us how it has taken place?

                                                      Simons: It is a long history. To represent how it happened, hours are
                                                      needed.

                                                      …Senator Nelson: Please depict this for us.

                                                      Simons: I can tell only that in the air the most devil terrorism
                                                      ripened. <...> I dressed as a Russian worker, put on a Russian shirt
                                                      which hangs down almost up to knees, put on a felt hat with wide
                                                      lowered sides and nickel spectacles so my sister said that I looked
                                                      as a Bolshevik.

                                                      I went to the street, among these people and listened to their
                                                      conversations. I went to the barracks. I wanted to collect as much
                                                      data as possible, for I was going to write a book. I felt that
                                                      history was being written, I trusted Russia, I loved Russia, but I
                                                      did not trust at all this ongoing business, and I wanted to look,
                                                      what it would do to Russia in which I was going to live.

                                                      I tried to collect first-hand information among common people. These
                                                      propagandists appeared and spoke both about Lenin and Trotsky, and in
                                                      the crowd, people would say: "It is true, completely true. "And then,
                                                      after those propagandists had left in a lorry, there came another
                                                      lorry with other propagandists…

                                                      United States Congress/Senate. Judiciary Committee. «The Bolshevik
                                                      propaganda. Hearings before a subcommittee of the committee on the
                                                      judiciary. United States Senate. Sixty-fifth congress. Third session
                                                      and thereafter pursuant to S. Res. 439 and 469. February 11, 1919 to
                                                      March 10, 1919», Washington, Government Printing Office, 1919; U.S.
                                                      Supt. of Docs. No. Y 4.J 89/2:B 63/40

                                                      http://www.rus-sky.org/history/library/overman.htm



                                                      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "podnoss" <podnoss@y...> wrote:
                                                      > So much has been conveniently forgotten about the events from
                                                      > February '17 to July '18.
                                                      >
                                                      > On February 26, 1917 there were about 300 000 people on the streets
                                                      > of Petrograd calling for the downfall of the Tsar. Repression was
                                                      > impossible. All the Tsar's senior generals had told him this and -
                                                      on
                                                      > the advice of M. Rodzianko the Speaker of the Duma - convinced him
                                                      to
                                                      > abdicate.
                                                      >
                                                      > The 250 000 soldiers of the Petrograd garrison had gone over to the
                                                      > people's side on February 27, forcing the police in the capital to
                                                      > flee. People called for the Tsar and the Empress to be shot. "And
                                                      > they shouldn't spare the daughters" was a popular refrain. No armed
                                                      > force could have put down what became a national uprising against
                                                      the
                                                      > monarchy. Perhaps someone such as yourself could've stepped forward
                                                      > and warned the people that it was a sin to rise up against the Tsar.
                                                      > If they failed to listen, what then?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > -- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                      > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > They condemn the passivity, sadness, indecision,
                                                      > complacency, "états
                                                      > > d'âme", in which those sentimental artists and writers dwelled.
                                                      The
                                                      > > country was drifting to the catastrophe and needed resolute
                                                      action
                                                      > > and faith while facing determined communist terrorists
                                                    • michael nikitin
                                                      Those that called for the Czar to be shot were Communists who were enciting the people. Because the war caused much hardship on the people some did want a
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jan 6, 2004
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Those that called for the Czar to be shot were
                                                        Communists who were enciting the people.

                                                        Because the war caused much hardship on the people
                                                        some did want a change, but the change was mostly
                                                        from the upper class(Kerensky, etc..) and the different
                                                        political powers such as the Communists, Mensheviks, etc...
                                                        who wanted power.

                                                        Most of the common people loved the Czar. The Serfs
                                                        received their freedom and were glad for it. The landowners
                                                        didn't particularly like the Czar.

                                                        Much of the demonstrations were prooganda in nature and
                                                        were purposely done in view of the Czars travelling route.
                                                        This was done to discourage the Czar and facilitate his
                                                        abdication which the likes of M. Rodzianko and Co. did well.

                                                        Unfortunately the Communists, with the help of bankers from
                                                        New York and England, had a different agenda. The rest is history.

                                                        Michael N.


                                                        podnoss <podnoss@...> wrote:
                                                        So much has been conveniently forgotten about the events from
                                                        February '17 to July '18.

                                                        On February 26, 1917 there were about 300 000 people on the streets
                                                        of Petrograd calling for the downfall of the Tsar. Repression was
                                                        impossible. All the Tsar's senior generals had told him this and - on
                                                        the advice of M. Rodzianko the Speaker of the Duma - convinced him to
                                                        abdicate.

                                                        The 250 000 soldiers of the Petrograd garrison had gone over to the
                                                        people's side on February 27, forcing the police in the capital to
                                                        flee. People called for the Tsar and the Empress to be shot. "And
                                                        they shouldn't spare the daughters" was a popular refrain. No armed
                                                        force could have put down what became a national uprising against the
                                                        monarchy. Perhaps someone such as yourself could've stepped forward
                                                        and warned the people that it was a sin to rise up against the Tsar.
                                                        If they failed to listen, what then?





                                                        -- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                        <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > They condemn the passivity, sadness, indecision,
                                                        complacency, "�tats
                                                        > d'�me", in which those sentimental artists and writers dwelled. The
                                                        > country was drifting to the catastrophe and needed resolute action
                                                        > and faith while facing determined communist terrorists



                                                        ---------------------------------
                                                        Do you Yahoo!?
                                                        Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • vkozyreff
                                                        Dear List, Regarding Chekhov s society, The ideologies promoted by the Russian intelligentsia tended to be socially radical, democratic, and cosmopolitan,
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jan 9, 2004
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Dear List,

                                                          Regarding Chekhov's society, "The ideologies promoted by the Russian
                                                          intelligentsia tended to be socially radical, democratic, and
                                                          cosmopolitan, although they might have a concealed elitist,
                                                          authoritarian, or nationalist streak". (Presniakov)

                                                          "These theories, derived from the advanced thought of contemporary
                                                          Europe, often bore little relevance to the immediate problems
                                                          confronting Russian society, but this seldom detracted from their
                                                          appeal. Intellectuals were acknowledged to be their mentors by nearly
                                                          all educated Russians, that is, by everyone not closely identified
                                                          with the autocratic regime…Russian socialism was therefore a product
                                                          of the intelligentsia" (Pares, Bernard. A History of Russia. New
                                                          York: Alfred A. Knopf Inc, 1926, third edition revised. Pares)

                                                          Before the First World War the intelligentsia's dominance began to
                                                          wane, and they were discriminated against in the early days of the
                                                          revolution and during the Stalinist period. However, during later
                                                          communism, they were worshipped…

                                                          http://econc10.bu.edu/economic_systems/NatIdentity/FSU/Russia/Westerni
                                                          zation.html

                                                          In support of what Michael writes, I would like to remind that
                                                          the "Russian Revolution" was not really Russian and was a war
                                                          declared on the Russian people. As many revolutions, it depended on
                                                          an external (diaspora) financing.

                                                          Below, see a reference about the causes of revolutions/civil wars in
                                                          general, and another on Russian revolution specifically.

                                                          In God,

                                                          Vladimir Kozyreff

                                                          -----
                                                          1. Greed and grievances

                                                          ...Rebellion may be explained by atypically severe grievances, such
                                                          as high inequality, a lack of political rights, or ethnic and
                                                          religious divisions in society. Alternatively, it might be explained
                                                          by atypical opportunities for building a rebel organization.
                                                          Opportunity may be determined by access to finance, such as the scope
                                                          for extortion of natural resources, and for donations from a diaspora
                                                          population.

                                                          Opportunity may also depend upon factors such as geography: mountains
                                                          and forests may be needed to incubate rebellion. We test these
                                                          explanations and find that opportunity provides considerably more
                                                          explanatory power than grievance. Economic viability appears to be
                                                          the predominant systematic explanation of rebellion.

                                                          The results are robust to correction for outliers, alternative
                                                          variable definition, and variations in estimation method. Greed and
                                                          Grievance in Civil War by Paul Collier and Anke Hoeffler

                                                          http://www.worldbank.org/research/conflict/papers/greedandgrievance.ht
                                                          m

                                                          -----
                                                          2. The Russian revolution in particular did not originate from the
                                                          Russian people

                                                          "The biggest fallacy concerning the Bolshevik Revolution is that it
                                                          originated from the people ... from the poor huddled masses. In
                                                          reality, it was financed by: a) England's Lord Alfred Milner, b) Wall
                                                          Street bankers such as J. P. Morgan & company and the Rockefeller
                                                          Family c) Europe's Rothschild dynasty, and d) German bankers such as
                                                          Max Warburg, whose brother Paul was the key man in setting up
                                                          America's Federal Reserve System.

                                                          ...Money for the Bolshevik Revolution came from superrich Western
                                                          financiers, some of whom were Americans! In essence, then, the very
                                                          core of Communism was a partnership between monopoly-oriented
                                                          Capitalists and the international Socialist movement".

                                                          http://pub64.ezboard.com/frespectforthetencommandmentsfrm9.showMessage
                                                          ?topicID=1.topic



                                                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
                                                          <nikitinmike@y...> wrote:
                                                          > Those that called for the Czar to be shot were
                                                          > Communists who were enciting the people.
                                                          >
                                                          > Because the war caused much hardship on the people
                                                          > some did want a change, but the change was mostly
                                                          > from the upper class(Kerensky, etc..) and the different
                                                          > political powers such as the Communists, Mensheviks, etc...
                                                          > who wanted power.
                                                          >
                                                          > Most of the common people loved the Czar. The Serfs
                                                          > received their freedom and were glad for it. The landowners
                                                          > didn't particularly like the Czar.
                                                          >
                                                          > Much of the demonstrations were prooganda in nature and
                                                          > were purposely done in view of the Czars travelling route.
                                                          > This was done to discourage the Czar and facilitate his
                                                          > abdication which the likes of M. Rodzianko and Co. did well.
                                                          >
                                                          > Unfortunately the Communists, with the help of bankers from
                                                          > New York and England, had a different agenda. The rest is history.
                                                          >
                                                          > Michael N.
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > podnoss <podnoss@y...> wrote:
                                                          > So much has been conveniently forgotten about the events from
                                                          > February '17 to July '18.
                                                          >
                                                          > On February 26, 1917 there were about 300 000 people on the streets
                                                          > of Petrograd calling for the downfall of the Tsar. Repression was
                                                          > impossible. All the Tsar's senior generals had told him this and -
                                                          on
                                                          > the advice of M. Rodzianko the Speaker of the Duma - convinced him
                                                          to
                                                          > abdicate.
                                                          >
                                                          > The 250 000 soldiers of the Petrograd garrison had gone over to the
                                                          > people's side on February 27, forcing the police in the capital to
                                                          > flee. People called for the Tsar and the Empress to be shot. "And
                                                          > they shouldn't spare the daughters" was a popular refrain. No armed
                                                          > force could have put down what became a national uprising against
                                                          the
                                                          > monarchy. Perhaps someone such as yourself could've stepped forward
                                                          > and warned the people that it was a sin to rise up against the Tsar.
                                                          > If they failed to listen, what then?
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > -- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                                                          > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > They condemn the passivity, sadness, indecision,
                                                          > complacency, "états
                                                          > > d'âme", in which those sentimental artists and writers dwelled.
                                                          The
                                                          > > country was drifting to the catastrophe and needed resolute
                                                          action
                                                          > > and faith while facing determined communist terrorists
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ---------------------------------
                                                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                          > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Olga
                                                          hello all! Way back in December, I asked for input on favourite Orthodox desert island reading, and I would like to say a huge thank you to Father Victor for
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 28, 2004
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            hello all!

                                                            Way back in December, I asked for input on favourite Orthodox "desert
                                                            island" reading, and I would like to say a huge thank you to Father
                                                            Victor for recommending the book "Father Arseny, 1893-1973: Priest,
                                                            Prisoner, Spiritual Father" and for those of you who are interested,
                                                            the publisher is St. Vladimir's Seminary Press.

                                                            It took me awhile to get around to finding it, ordering it, and then
                                                            reading it, but all I can say is 'wow!'. I was sorry when I got to
                                                            the end of the book. So bittersweet, so moving, so inspirational!

                                                            It is not my intention to start any arguments here!! But my knowledge
                                                            of the Soviet church from the 30's to the 70's is obviously very
                                                            limited, which I realized after reading this book. Some of the
                                                            believers described in this book were persecuted, they preferred not
                                                            to attend the "open" church, and I don't think they were part of the
                                                            catacomb church, which raises a question for me - which church might
                                                            have they been a part of? This is just for my own personal
                                                            information.

                                                            And again no arguments please!!!

                                                            In Christ,
                                                            Olga
                                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.