Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [orthodox-synod] Opposition within the MP - Moment of Truth??

Expand Messages
  • Paul O. BARTLETT
    ... May I respectfully request that such articles *not* be posted to the entire list? Many subscribers do not read Russian, and such a post merely clogs their
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 1, 2003
      On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, byakimov@... wrote:

      > Dear All
      >
      > The scanned article concerning a recent letter & other MP matters by MP
      > priest - [cut for space]

      > The article is in Russian only.

      May I respectfully request that such articles *not* be posted to
      the entire list? Many subscribers do not read Russian, and such a post
      merely clogs their mailboxes with something they cannot directly use.
      (Some people do not have unlimited email resources.) I suggest that a
      more appropriate method would be to place the article on a web site and
      to provide the URL or to announce it in a list posting with an offer to
      send it directly to those who request. Thank you.

      --
      Paul Bartlett
      bartlett at smart.net
      PGP key info in message headers
    • Fr. Gregory Williams
      ... May I respectfully request that such articles *not* be posted to the entire list? Many subscribers do not read Russian... Amen! Likewise, html-coded
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 1, 2003
        > The article is in Russian only.

        May I respectfully request that such articles *not* be posted to
        the entire list? Many subscribers do not read Russian...

        Amen! Likewise, html-coded whole pages from websites cause a lot of trouble
        -- please extract the text and send it.
      • boulia_1
        ... May I respectfully diasgree? This list is for friends and members of the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, and these days, especially, much of
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Paul O. BARTLETT"
          <bartlett@s...> wrote:
          > May I respectfully request that such articles *not* be posted to
          > the entire list?

          May I respectfully diasgree? This list is for friends and members of
          the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, and these days,
          especially, much of interest is coming out in RUSSIAN... I find it a
          great help that these articles are posted here.

          I respectfully recommend that those with limited e-mail capacity (I
          am among them) switch their Group membership preferences to the
          option in which messages are not delivered by e-mail, and then log in
          to Yahoo to view the recent postings at their leisure.

          Elizabeth
        • Fr. Gregory Williams
          ... of the Subject. Perhaps better another list altogether for those who wish to receive texts in Russian.
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
            >Absolutely. Perhaps posts with Russian text could contain RU at the start
            of the Subject.

            Perhaps better another list altogether for those who wish to receive texts
            in Russian.
          • Hristofor
            ... Absolutely. Perhaps posts with Russian text could contain RU at the start of the Subject. This way, non-Russian speakers could simply delete the e-mail.
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
              At 08:52 AM 12/3/2003, you wrote:
              >May I respectfully diasgree? This list is for friends and members of
              >the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, and these days,
              >especially, much of interest is coming out in RUSSIAN... I find it a
              >great help that these articles are posted here.
              >
              >I respectfully recommend that those with limited e-mail capacity (I
              >am among them) switch their Group membership preferences to the
              >option in which messages are not delivered by e-mail, and then log in
              >to Yahoo to view the recent postings at their leisure.
              >
              >Elizabeth

              Absolutely. Perhaps posts with Russian text could contain RU at the start
              of the Subject. This way, non-Russian speakers could simply delete the e-mail.

              BTW, out of historical interest, does anyone know to which jurisdiction
              Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the Baltic states were
              overrun by the Red Army in WWII? Were some of the parishes in the Baltic
              countries part of ROCOR during the period from 1918-1941? I know there
              are/were Latvian and Estonian Orthodox Churches which were exiled to Sweden
              after WW II, but I assume these consisted of ethnic Letts and Estonians and
              not Russians...

              Hristofor
            • Maria Lunk
              Totally agree with Hristifor. Mark the postings in Russian with a ru if that helps, but let s not start the language issue yet again. ... [Non-text portions
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                Totally agree with Hristifor. Mark the postings in Russian with a ru if
                that helps, but let's not start the language issue yet again.

                Hristofor wrote:

                >At 08:52 AM 12/3/2003, you wrote:
                >
                >
                >>May I respectfully diasgree? This list is for friends and members of
                >>the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, and these days,
                >>especially, much of interest is coming out in RUSSIAN... I find it a
                >>great help that these articles are posted here.
                >>
                >>I respectfully recommend that those with limited e-mail capacity (I
                >>am among them) switch their Group membership preferences to the
                >>option in which messages are not delivered by e-mail, and then log in
                >>to Yahoo to view the recent postings at their leisure.
                >>
                >>Elizabeth
                >>
                >>
                >
                >Absolutely. Perhaps posts with Russian text could contain RU at the start
                >of the Subject. This way, non-Russian speakers could simply delete the e-mail.
                >
                >BTW, out of historical interest, does anyone know to which jurisdiction
                >Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the Baltic states were
                >overrun by the Red Army in WWII? Were some of the parishes in the Baltic
                >countries part of ROCOR during the period from 1918-1941? I know there
                >are/were Latvian and Estonian Orthodox Churches which were exiled to Sweden
                >after WW II, but I assume these consisted of ethnic Letts and Estonians and
                >not Russians...
                >
                >Hristofor
                >
                >
                >
                >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • akomendantov
                ... jurisdiction Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the Baltic states were overrun by the Red Army in WWII? The future Patriarch belonged to the
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Hristofor <hristofor@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > BTW, out of historical interest, does anyone know to which
                  jurisdiction Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the
                  Baltic states were overrun by the Red Army in WWII?

                  The future Patriarch belonged to the Autonomous Estonian Church under
                  the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

                  >Were some of the parishes in the Baltic countries part of ROCOR
                  during the period from 1918-1941?

                  There were no ROCOR-affiliated parishes in the Baltic countries
                  during this period, as far as I know.

                  >I know there are/were Latvian and Estonian Orthodox Churches which
                  were exiled to Sweden after WW II, but I assume these consisted of
                  ethnic Letts and Estonians and not Russians...

                  I would say that is most likely true. The diasporan situation for
                  each Church was also different. There were enough bishops, clergy
                  and parishioners in the Estonian Church to support an ongoing Church
                  in exile until it could return to its mother country and have some
                  basis for its claims to autonomy.

                  The Latvian situation was very different. Until the martyric death
                  in 1934 of its head, St. John of Riga (Pommers), the Latvian Orthodox
                  Church enjoyed a status of total autonomy, conferred upon it by St.
                  Tikhon on the basis of the spiritual authority he recognized in
                  Bishop John. This unusual arrangement satisfied the newly-
                  independent (and largely anti-Russian) government of Latvia. And it
                  preserved St. John's personal loyalty to the Russian Church, allowing
                  him to resist to the end all efforts of the Ecumenical Patriarch to
                  intervene. Sadly, his untimely death effectively ended this special
                  canonical situation, and his elected successor, Metropolitan
                  Augustin, could assume his position only with the blessing of the
                  Ecumenical Patriarch, under whose jurisdiction the church now
                  belonged. Met. Augustin died in Germany and his wish for a free
                  Latvian Church in exile did not materialize. There were a handful of
                  clergy in London that attempted to maintain it under a Greek EP
                  bishop but that simply did not work. The bulk of the Latvian clergy
                  in exile, including Bishop John of Riga (Garklavs) joined the
                  Metropolia/OCA; one or two joined ROCOR, including the future Bishop
                  John (Legky).

                  This is the reason the current Estonian scenario, with its still
                  unresolved issues of legal registrations and property disputes with
                  the MP, did not play out in Latvia.

                  Andrew Komendantov
                • StephenATL/????????
                  My knowledge of Russian is very limited, but I don t mind at all getting texts in Russian. It is often interesting to see just how much of the text I can
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                    My knowledge of Russian is very limited, but I don't mind at all getting
                    texts in Russian. It is often interesting to see just how much of the
                    text I can understand/figure out....... while waiting for the English
                    translation.

                    May I respectfully suggest that those with "limited" e-mail capacity,
                    quit being so "cheap" and get a regular e-mail account, for only a few
                    dollars more. My Bell South account only costs me $15 a month for
                    "unlimited" e-mail and internet use. So, grow up, modernize and stop
                    being so cheap.

                    (You do need to make sure that your mail client/program is downloading
                    the messages from your ISP's mail server, each and every time. It it is
                    leaving copies there, that can fill up your inbox over time if left on
                    the main server.)

                    Stephanos


                    Fr. Gregory Williams wrote:

                    >>Absolutely. Perhaps posts with Russian text could contain RU at the start
                    >>
                    >>
                    >of the Subject.
                    >
                    >Perhaps better another list altogether for those who wish to receive texts
                    >in Russian.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Hristofor
                    or switch to free www.mail.ru Although they have mailbox limits, I never exceeded the mailbox size, even when I did not check my e-mail for over a fortnight
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                      or switch to free www.mail.ru

                      Although they have mailbox limits, I never exceeded the mailbox size, even
                      when I did not check my e-mail for over a fortnight and the messages from
                      this list were coming in fast and furious. Another plus, the spam is
                      usually for Moscow real estate or English language courses and is fairly
                      harmless considering the stuff that comes in over free hotmail etc. accounts

                      Of course, if you are paying for internet access, my response is inapplicable.

                      Hristofor--With no connection to mail.ru

                      At 01:57 PM 12/3/2003, you wrote:
                      >May I respectfully suggest that those with "limited" e-mail capacity,
                      >quit being so "cheap" and get a regular e-mail account, for only a few
                      >dollars more. My Bell South account only costs me $15 a month for
                      >"unlimited" e-mail and internet use. So, grow up, modernize and stop
                      >being so cheap.
                    • Reader Timothy Tadros
                      I bought a few years ago on e-bay a small picture of a group of Orthodox clergy in front of a monastery it included a bishop and a great schema monk . I sent
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                        I bought a few years ago on e-bay a small picture of a group of
                        Orthodox clergy in front of a monastery it included a bishop and a
                        great schema monk . I sent the pic to Holy Trinity Monastery for
                        identification and Vladyka Laurus said that the bishop was of Bishop
                        John Bulin who was head of the Estonian Church under ROCOR. Vladyka
                        also stated that he later left ROCOR and went back to the MP and was
                        assumed martyered?
                        I have the pic an ebay scan on another computer I will try to find
                        it and post it in the photos section.
                        rdr Timothy Tadros

                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Hristofor <hristofor@m...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > BTW, out of historical interest, does anyone know to which
                        jurisdiction
                        > Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the Baltic states
                        were
                        > overrun by the Red Army in WWII? Were some of the parishes in the
                        Baltic
                        > countries part of ROCOR during the period from 1918-1941? I know
                        there
                        > are/were Latvian and Estonian Orthodox Churches which were exiled
                        to Sweden
                        > after WW II, but I assume these consisted of ethnic Letts and
                        Estonians and
                        > not Russians...
                        >
                        > Hristofor
                      • akomendantov
                        ... Bishop ... was ... find
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
                          <pravoslavney@y...> wrote:
                          > I bought a few years ago on e-bay a small picture of a group of
                          > Orthodox clergy in front of a monastery it included a bishop and a
                          > great schema monk . I sent the pic to Holy Trinity Monastery for
                          > identification and Vladyka Laurus said that the bishop was of
                          Bishop
                          > John Bulin who was head of the Estonian Church under ROCOR. Vladyka
                          > also stated that he later left ROCOR and went back to the MP and
                          was
                          > assumed martyered?
                          > I have the pic an ebay scan on another computer I will try to
                          find
                          > it and post it in the photos section.
                          > rdr Timothy Tadros
                          >
                          > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Hristofor <hristofor@m...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > BTW, out of historical interest, does anyone know to which
                          > jurisdiction
                          > > Patriarch Alexis belonged to as a youth, before the Baltic states
                          > were
                          > > overrun by the Red Army in WWII? Were some of the parishes in the
                          > Baltic
                          > > countries part of ROCOR during the period from 1918-1941? I know
                          > there
                          > > are/were Latvian and Estonian Orthodox Churches which were exiled
                          > to Sweden
                          > > after WW II, but I assume these consisted of ethnic Letts and
                          > Estonians and
                          > > not Russians...
                          > >
                          > > Hristofor
                        • akomendantov
                          I came back from church tonight and noticed my post without my text. Don t know how that happened, will try to recreate it. ... of Orthodox clergy in front
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 3, 2003
                            I came back from church tonight and noticed "my" post without my
                            text. Don't know how that happened, will try to recreate it.

                            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
                            > <pravoslavney@y...> wrote:
                            > > I bought a few years ago on e-bay a small picture of a group >
                            of Orthodox clergy in front of a monastery it included a bishop and
                            a great schema monk . I sent the pic to Holy Trinity Monastery for
                            > identification and Vladyka Laurus said that the bishop was of
                            > Bishop John Bulin who was head of the Estonian Church under ROCOR.
                            Vladyka also stated that he later left ROCOR and went back to the MP
                            and was assumed martyered?

                            My grandparents lived in Latvia near the Estonian border; the Pskovo-
                            Pechersky Monastery was a day's walk (or a long bicycle ride for my
                            aunt) so they made frequent pilgrimages there. Vladyka Ioann (Bulin)
                            and his relatives were family friends and I grew up hearing about him
                            and Hiero-Schemamonk Simeon and "Pechory." I'm looking at some
                            inscribed family fotos now, the oldest from 1921 of "skhimnik"
                            Simeon, Vl. Ioann from 1933 and then a monastery postcard with a note
                            from him dated 1938. Sometime between those latter dates, Vl. Ioann
                            was removed from his post as abbot of the monastery (I'm not sure if
                            he was also head of the newly-formed Pechory/Petseri Diocese) and
                            exiled from Estonia. While actively resisting the new calendar and
                            other innovations of the official EP-subordinate Estonian Church
                            (which made many enemies for him), I never heard anything about him
                            heading any Estonian Church or group under ROCOR. The government was
                            very vigilant for any such "foreign interference." That he respected
                            and admired ROCOR is indisputable; while in exile he served with
                            ROCOR bishops in Yugoslavia and the Holy Land. I'm guessing
                            he officially joined ROCOR in exile. Sometime prior to 1938, he was
                            allowed to return to Estonia, but I'm not sure in what capacity. His
                            note to my aunt references troubled times and personal tribulations,
                            but no specifics are given. Perhaps "leaving ROCOR" refers to this
                            period in his life. Vl. Ioann was arrested by soviet agents soon
                            after the German invasion began and taken to Russia, where he was
                            shot -- in 1941, I believe. In any case, he certainly
                            never "returned to the MP."

                            > > I have the pic an ebay scan on another computer I will try to
                            > find it and post it in the photos section.
                            > > rdr Timothy Tadros

                            That would be wonderful!

                            Andrew Komendantov
                          • Reader Timothy Tadros
                            Thanks for the information! I have downloaded the picture of Vladyka John and clergy to the photos section. If anyone can identify any of the clergy and
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
                              Thanks for the information! I have downloaded the picture of
                              Vladyka John and clergy to the photos section. If anyone can
                              identify any of the clergy and monastics present it would be greatly
                              appreciated.
                              Rdr Timothy Tadros

                              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "akomendantov"
                              <akomendantov@y...> wrote:
                              > I came back from church tonight and noticed "my" post without my
                              > text. Don't know how that happened, will try to recreate it.
                              >
                              > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Timothy Tadros"
                              > > <pravoslavney@y...> wrote:
                              > > > I bought a few years ago on e-bay a small picture of a
                              group >
                              > of Orthodox clergy in front of a monastery it included a bishop
                              and
                              > a great schema monk . I sent the pic to Holy Trinity Monastery for
                              > > identification and Vladyka Laurus said that the bishop was of
                              > > Bishop John Bulin who was head of the Estonian Church under
                              ROCOR.
                              > Vladyka also stated that he later left ROCOR and went back to the
                              MP
                              > and was assumed martyered?
                              >
                              > My grandparents lived in Latvia near the Estonian border; the
                              Pskovo-
                              > Pechersky Monastery was a day's walk (or a long bicycle ride for
                              my
                              > aunt) so they made frequent pilgrimages there. Vladyka Ioann
                              (Bulin)
                              > and his relatives were family friends and I grew up hearing about
                              him
                              > and Hiero-Schemamonk Simeon and "Pechory." I'm looking at some
                              > inscribed family fotos now, the oldest from 1921 of "skhimnik"
                              > Simeon, Vl. Ioann from 1933 and then a monastery postcard with a
                              note
                              > from him dated 1938. Sometime between those latter dates, Vl.
                              Ioann
                              > was removed from his post as abbot of the monastery (I'm not sure
                              if
                              > he was also head of the newly-formed Pechory/Petseri Diocese) and
                              > exiled from Estonia. While actively resisting the new calendar
                              and
                              > other innovations of the official EP-subordinate Estonian Church
                              > (which made many enemies for him), I never heard anything about
                              him
                              > heading any Estonian Church or group under ROCOR. The government
                              was
                              > very vigilant for any such "foreign interference." That he
                              respected
                              > and admired ROCOR is indisputable; while in exile he served with
                              > ROCOR bishops in Yugoslavia and the Holy Land. I'm guessing
                              > he officially joined ROCOR in exile. Sometime prior to 1938, he
                              was
                              > allowed to return to Estonia, but I'm not sure in what capacity.
                              His
                              > note to my aunt references troubled times and personal
                              tribulations,
                              > but no specifics are given. Perhaps "leaving ROCOR" refers to
                              this
                              > period in his life. Vl. Ioann was arrested by soviet agents soon
                              > after the German invasion began and taken to Russia, where he was
                              > shot -- in 1941, I believe. In any case, he certainly
                              > never "returned to the MP."
                              >
                              > > > I have the pic an ebay scan on another computer I will try
                              to
                              > > find it and post it in the photos section.
                              > > > rdr Timothy Tadros
                              >
                              > That would be wonderful!
                              >
                              > Andrew Komendantov
                            • akomendantov
                              Thank you Rdr. Timothy for the foto! Definitely of Vl. Ioann; but I m only 90% certain that the Schema-Monk to Vladyka s left is Simeon, judging from the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 4, 2003
                                Thank you Rdr. Timothy for the foto! Definitely of Vl. Ioann; but
                                I'm only 90% certain that the Schema-Monk to Vladyka's left is
                                Simeon, judging from the fotos I have. I've done some internet
                                research in the meantime and have come across a reference to a Schema-
                                Bishop Macarius, who was also associated with Vl. Ioann.
                                Unfortunately, there is no one left in my family who could have
                                (easily) identified some, if not all, of the other clergy in your
                                foto.

                                Andrew Komendantov
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.